City Council · 2015-11-18

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SPECIAL JOINT MEETING 
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58 North State, Orem, U! 
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November 18, 2015 i '{.
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This meeting was for discussion purposes only. No o.ffieiaJ action wq_s;tdken. 
 
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CONDUCTING 
Mayor Richard F. Brunst, Jr. 
OREM ELECTED OFFICIALS 
Councilmembers 
Margaret 
Black, 
Macdonald, and Brent Sumner 
Tom 
OREM STAFF 
Steven Downs, Assistant to the City Manager; 
and Jackie Lambert, Deputy City Recorder 
ALPINE BOARD OF EDUCATION 
ALPINE SCHOOL DISTRICT ADMIN. 
ABSENT/EXCUSED 
INVOCATION 
John Burton and JoDee Sundberg 
Sam Jarman, Superintendent 
Councilmembers Hans Andersen, Mark 
Seastrand, and David Spencer 
Tom Macdonald 
Mayor Brunst called the meeting to order at 12:07 p.m. 
Items of Common Interest 
DISCUSSION -Orem Vote By Mail Election 
Mrs. Sundberg expressed her appreciation for the City's efforts in conducting the Vote By Mail 
(VBM) Primary and General Elections. She was impressed by the incredible increase in voter 
turnout, and felt the convenience of the VBM system showed a better distribution of the people 
of Orem. Mrs. Sundberg said she was excited to get to know and work with the new council 
members, but said she was sad to lose a great community leader like Mrs. Black. She 
commended Mrs. Black for her service and said Mrs. Black could feel good about all the service 
she had given. 
Mayor Brunst agreed, and said the success of the election was hard fought. Despite some 
obstacles, he was encouraged by the tremendous turnout of voters and thought VBM would be a 
good system moving forward. 
Mr. Macdonald said he was grateful that Orem doubled the turnout for the election, but felt it 
could go even further. He wanted to see those numbers doubled again. He said there was even 
more to do to encourage voters to participate in the process and the community. 
Joint Orem City Council/Alpine School District Minutes- November 18, 2015 (p. I) 
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Mr. Davidson said all five of the cities that conducted VBM elections were in Alpine School 
District areas. He thought there would be a greater shift in this part of the county to move toward 
VBM elections into the future. He was curious to see what the County would do moving 
forward, as VBM elections could impact items like bonds, communication with the voters, etc. 
He thought the voter turnout numbers could continue to increase as public outreach continued 
and feedback was gathered. 
Mrs. Sundberg said Utah County was often referred to as a kind of "Silicon Valley" for the state. 
She thought some of the larger cities in the county were more willing to try new things and 
implement new technologies, whereas smaller areas may be more fearful of those kinds of 
changes. 
Mayor Brunst said he had gone to the County Clerk's office and watched their process with the 
VBM ballots. He said it was a highly technical process of reading the ballots in the electronic 
ballot counter. The machine would stop if the ballot had not been properly filled out, and the 
machine would have to be reset. At least that was his experience; he believed each city was 
handled differently. 
Mr. Sumner asked if the County had been counting votes during the day of the election. Mayor 
Brunst said they had been counting as they received th,e ballots for weeks leading up to the 
election. 
Mr. Macdonald said that was something to take away for future VBM elections to streamline the 
process as much as possible. 
DISCUSSION -Proposed ICO project in Sunset Heights neighborhood 
Mrs. Sundberg said she lived in the Sunset Heights neighborhood and had heard much from her 
neighbors abovt a housing project that had been proposed in that area. She would like to work 
with the parties involved· and would like more inforni.ation about the project. She hoped there 
would be more dialogue between all parties before decisions were made. 
Mr. Davidson said they would have continued discussions about student housing and apartment 
developments in the future. He said one challenge with this particular project was there was not a 
willingness on either. side to come together to have a conversation. The City had facilitated a 
conversation, and while both sides had expressed that they wanted to work together, there was 
not a real showing of compromise. He said he was not pointing fingers, but it seemed that both 
parties were unwilling to move from their current positions, 
Mr. Sumner said he also lived in that area and neighbors were calling him almost daily. His 
understanding was that the neighbors were willing to discuss and compromise. Mr. Davidson 
said he would respectfully disagree with that. 
Mrs. Sundberg said her neighbors were telling her the project would be a six-story, high-density 
building. 
Mr. Davidson said the proposal was for four stories with an underground parking garage. The 
density was relatively high, but that was not uncommon near a university campus. BYU had 
five- or six-story student housing buildings. He said often there were more public safety calls in 
Joint Orem City Council/ Alpine School District Minutes -November 18, 2015 (p.2) 



higher density areas, but that was not because it was student housing; that was the case anywhere 
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there was a gathering of people. He thought if anything were to move forward, there needed to 
be give on both sides. 
Mr. Sumner said there was a meeting that evening specifically about the project and asked who 
would be in attendance. Mr. Macdonald said he believed UVU was providing a location for the 
meeting and that developers and neighbors would be present. 
Mr. Davidson said he had seen a handout that might have been distributed in the neighborhoods 
that was encouraging neighbors to come out to "kill" the project. 
Mrs. Sundberg said that was what she was hearing from her neighbors, that they needed to "kill" 
the project. 
Mr. Sumner said it was similar on his side. He said it started poorly when the developer did not 
present enough information about the project early on, and the information he did present had 
shown four phases going up the hill. Mr. Sumner believed they would be willing to compromise. 
Mrs. Sundberg said ten years ago she had attended a meeting regarding Polaris High School. She 
said the meeting had been horrible, and neighbors were adamantly opposed to having a school 
for at-risk teens in their neighborhood. They said the students would bring crime and drugs to 
their area, and they had been very upset when the project moved forward. She said that thus far, 
there had been few, if any, problems at Polaris. She believed the school resource officer assigned 
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to the school responded to more calls in the neighborhood than he did to calls for the school. 
Superintendent Jarman said one compromise that was part ofthe Polaris agreement was that the 
school would not use the city park in that area. The school had had to work around that, but had 
not had a problem. 
DISCUSSION - Orem/ Alpine School District Potential Land Swap 
Mrs. Sundberg said Orem City and the Alpine School District had a long history of 
collaboration. They had done great things together as a team, and she wanted to continue in that 
tradition. She said she heard a presentation from Assistant Superintendent Rob Smith about the 
sports fields by Mountain View High School' (MVHS) and a possible land swap situation that 
gave her .concern. Her understanding from the presentation was that 6.2 acres of Alpine School 
District land used for softball fields would be swapped for 4. 1 acres of City land used as a 
baseball field. She was concerned about the equity of the swap. 
Mr. Davidson ·said there was some question about the size of both parcels, because there were 
areas of overlap. The parcel that was largest was 6.2 acres. 
Mrs. Sundberg said even with the overlaps, it seemed the swap was not even, and was not 
acceptable. 
Mr. Davidson said there was a cell tower on that property that generated a $20,000+ revenul) 
stream. Mrs. Sundberg said the cell tower revenue was not new or extra; they were already 
receiving that. 
Joint Orem City CounciV Alpine School District Minutes -November 18, 2015 (p.3) I 



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Mr. Jarman said the, contrllct was for sixteen years, which would be when the swap would take
place if it were swapped. 
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Mr. Davidson said he had never heard that. 
Mrs. Sundberg said the proposal Mr. Smith shared had not been accepted by the ASD Buildings 
and Grounds Committee. She thought it could be worked out better, and there were things the 
district could do but they did not necessarily want to do. 
Mayor Bruns! asked if financial heartburn was the real issue. 
Mrs. Sundberg said the main concern was the large difference in acreage between the parcels. 
They did not want the children at Orem Elementary to have a smaller playground. She felt there 
were better sharing options; There were options that worked for the district, but not the City, like 
changing the four fields into one baseball field and two softball fields. That was not ideal, but 
would accommodate some ofthe district's needs. Mountain View High School (MVHS) was the 
only high school in the district without its own baseball field, and shared other facilities like 
soccer fields, tennis courts, and swimming pool. The decision had been made years ago for 
MVHS to utilize City facilities, which had been done in good partnership between the City and 
the district. She said there had been some issues with the sharing of the ball fields, sometimes 
without the district even being made aware of some of them. She said it felt like the softball 
fields belonged to both the district and the City, but the baseball field .seemed to only belong to 
the City. She said this needed to be worked out in the best way possible for the children of the 
community. 
Mr. Hirst said a number of options had been presented to the district staff. It sounded, like the 
only one had been brought forward, the one that placed the district and the City the furthest 
apart. He said there were several other options, including one that put the acreage difference at 
about 0. 75 acres. 
Mr. Davidson said he was not sure that the proposal the board heard was representative of the 
conversation. Orem. wanted to work with the Alpine School District to resolve the issue. They 
had a long history of working very well together. 
Mr. Jarman said it seemed like the MVHS area was a point of contention between the City and 
the district, and theywere trying to figure out why. 
Mr. Davidson said if they were talking about consideration on both sides, there were many 
factors including the physical acreage, the cell tower, the road network, the parking lots, the 
restrooms, etc. that needed to be included in the conversation. While the actual ball complex 
belonged to the district, the City maintained the· roads, and parking lots, and bathrooms. It was 
part of the relationship agreed on thirty or so years ago. The City was not opposed to having a 
conversation where the needs of the Alpine School District Board and Orem City Council were 
both met. Mr: Davidson said that Mr. Smith had sirid he would take the issue back to the board. 
Mrs. Sundberg said on busy game days people were parking in Alpine School District parking 
lots and using Alpine School District fields as well, so there was compromise on both sides. 
Joint Orem City Council/ AJpine School District Minutes - November 18, 2015 (p.4) 



Superintendent Jarman added that both parties gained the advantage when those amenities were. 
needed. 
Mr. Davidson agreed, and said it would be valuable to have a conversation with both parties, 
because he was not sure a fair representation of the conversation had been conveyed back to the 
district: 
Mrs. Sundberg said she just wanted to see the issue resolved so the MVHS team felt they had a 
good field and place to play. She said .the district wanted to be good neighbors. 
Mr. Burton said it would be good to have the City at the Buildings and Grounds meetings for that 
purpose. 
Mr. Hirst said it seemed like the City had been represented in the worst possible light for the 
options in the land swap agreement. 
Mr. Davidson said they had asked Mr. Smith what the district's number was for equalizing the 
acreage gap, because they wanted to facilitate an agreement that would be fair to both parties. 
Mrs. Sundberg said she was glad she had brought the topic up so she could hear the City's 
position and understand their position. She suggested an option where the district purchase some 
of the property and still have the same partnership with the City. 
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Mr. Hirst said that had been one of the City's suggested options, but Mr. Smith had said the 
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district was not interested in doing that. 
Mr. Davidson said because of the adjacent land and desire to continue to work with the Alpine 
School District, neither party was interested in a complete cash transaction. They felt there was a 
better way. 
Mr. Sumner asked where the contention point was. Mr. Hirst said the most vocal group was the 
parents of baseball players, and he was sympathetic to their complaints. A parents group would 
prep the field for a Monday game, only to have a public park user undo that work on Sunday. 
Mrs. Sundberg said she understood that the field could not simply be closed off to the public as it 
was. As a baseball parent she had dealt with the exact problem Mr. Hirst was referring to. She 
said she also wanted the park to be available for the public to play, and she believed there could 
be a fair and reasonable solution for all parties. 
Mr. Hirst agreed that the ball field situation for MVHS was less than ideal, and the .passion of the 
parents was driving the discussion. He was concerned that the worst-case scenario had been 
presented as Otem's position, but was glad to hear that the district was also open to working with 
the City to resolve the issue. 
Superintendent Jamian said he was sorry if there had been misrepresentation of the City's 
position. They looked forward to working together as they always had to solve the problem. 
Joint Orem City CounciUAlpine School District Minutes -November 18, 2015 (p.5) I 



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***Mrs. Sundberg left the meeting at 12:45 p.m. ***
UPDATE -Hawk Signal 
Mr. Davidson said the planned hawk signal near Canyon View Jr. High and Orchard Elementary 
was still in process. They had sent the project out for bid twice, and it had returned at double the 
original price. He said they would likely bid. the project out once more during the winter months 
when contractors were more in need of work to get a more reasonable price. He said the conduit 
for the signal was in place; the construction was the final piece. 
Mrs. Black asked if the contractors that had installed other hawk signals in Orem had responded 
to the bid. Mr. Davidson said he could not remember. 
Mr. Burton asked why the bids were returning at double the price. Mr. Davidson said it had been 
an aggressive construction season. Those who were willing to build for certain prices in the past 
were not responding orperhaps not available currently to work on this relatively small job. 
DISCUSSION-Alpine School District Proposed Bond 
Superintendent Jarman presented information about a proposed Alpine School District bond that 
would be considered in the coming year. He said they had been going to the public and showing 
them the reasoning behind the proposed bond. 'He reviewed student growth and projections that 
showed the student population would grow another 5,000 by the year 2020 which they had to 
accommodate. He reviewed areas of concentration for the different bond cycles. He said that 
projects for the 2011 bond had been done in phases up to Phase 4. He identified areas in Orem 
that had been served by bonds in the past, and said he hoped that as voters considered the bond 
they remembered the needs of not just one school or city, but the district as a whole, Alpine 
School District was the largest district in the state with 83 schools and 75,000+ students. 
Superintendent Jarman said because of the large number of students in the district, they divided 
areas into clusters and used a feeder system. High schools like Westlake and Lehi divided into 
two clusters because more than one middle school/junior high fed into those high schools. They 
utilized the cluster system to have a smaller feel and give more individualized attention to given 
areas and schools. They held cluster meetings with parents and administration, and worked 
within municipalities. One particular area of growth was in Vineyard, which was set to see an 
increase as more residential units were built. Vineyard currently had a charter school in the south 
part of the town, but the district hoped to obtǞn land for a public school. 
Superintendent Jarman continued, saying they had other needs such as satellite classrooms and 
portables. The latter were often criticized, but they were necessary to bridge the gaps for 
classroom space. He said some areas were high growth currently but would not be further down 
the road, as high growth 'went.in cycles. He said even with the proposed 2016 bond, they would 
need to consider options to accommodate needs, such as portable classrooms, boundary 
adjustments, double-sessions, year-round school, etc, Lone Peak High School was at capacity, 
and they had "roving teachers" for the over 2,600 students. He clarified that the district followed 
the law in calculating the amounts they could borrow, but the district almost never asked the 
public for the total amount they would need to meet the needs of the district. The proposed 2016 
bond of $315 million would still not meet all the needs within the district. At the present rate, .it 
would take twenty years to meet all the needs. 
Join!OremCity CounciVAlpine School District Minutes -November 18, 2015 (p.6) 



Mrs. Black asked if projects had been decided for the proposed bond. Superintendent Jarman I
said that would be presented in early spring, and the district would conduct surveys beginning in 
January. They were looking at a five-year plan, which potentially included a high school in Eagle 
Mountain, as well as two elementary schools. He said a high school cost approximately $65 
million to build, and an elementary school was approximately $15 to $16 million each. He said 
the cost of a high school heavily affected what other needs could be addressed. 
Mayor Brunst asked the average cost per homeowner. Mr. Jarman said that depended on the 
bond amount. A $250 million bond would likely have no effect. 
Mr. Macdonald asked why that was the case. Mr. Davidson said it was the layering of debt. Mr. 
Jarman added that a new bond would widen the gap and allow for additional debt to be brought 
in. 
Mrs. Black asked if there would be an increase in taxes. Mr. Jarman said that would depend upon 
the size of the bond they ultimately put on the ballot. He said his dream would be $315 million to 
get one more elementary school built. He said they would also go for another bond in 2020 
because of the district projected growth. He said his rough, preliminary numbers were 
approximately $5 a month additional, totaling $60 per year. He emphasized that those numbers 
were preliminary. 
Mr. Bybee asked if all seismic upgrades had been done throughout the district. Mr. Jarman said 
not all had been addressed yet. He said they would need to rebuild Geneva Elementary School I
and retrofit Scera Park Elementary School for seismic upgrades. He said in addition to the five-
year plan they were developing a ten-year plan, and the rebuild of Geneva Elementary was on 
the ten-year plan. 
Mr. Davidson asked if the growth in Vineyard would fold into the Orem clusters. Superintendent 
Jarman said the clusters were typically based on high schools. If in the future they needed fo 
build a high school in Vineyard it would likely be a part of the Orem cluster, but he could not say 
for sure at this time. 
Mr. Burton asked the Council's opinion on how to get Orem voters to buy into the bond. Mrs. 
Black said that Orem residents, just like any municipality, would want to know what was in the 
bond for their community. Knowing how the bond would benefit their area, voters would' be 
more committed to the idea. 
Superintendent J annan said they intended to have an outreach campaign going door to door, 
calling, sending home information with students, etc. 
Mayor Brunst asked if a bond had ever not passed. 
Superintendent Jarman said that in the time that he had been with the district none had failed that 
he was aware of. He said there was nervousness around the idea of going over the $300 million I
threshold, but there was· need for another elementary school and if they could get the higher 
amount it would be helpful. He said theywere trying to be as transparent as possible with their 
data collection and information. They would gauge the jump in January to see how people 
generally felt about the amount. Including the bond on a presidential election year helped with 
Joint Orem City CowiciilAlpine Sch90l District Minutes-November 18, 6015 (p.7) 



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voter turnout, and he felt utilizing a VBM system would incrǒe thwe'.numbers'e:yeg,fitrther. He 
said the logical grandparent-type of voter would want their gn\iulk\4Ǔ :iffgo'ocliang.s'ǔfe s6bools. 
'.'11'· _Black reiteratǕǖ the importance of showing the publictJ
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Mr. Jarman said he wanted to show the capital needs too, oecaǘe':Wej,Ǚ•ne;ǚdǛ4;:rpeople to 
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Mr. Davidson said as they surveyed the public, residents expressed a strong connection and 
affinity for local schools. That made a big difference. The rebuild of Cherry Hill and Westmore 
elementary schools, Orem High School, etc. had continued to build a sense of community and 
pride within neighborhoods. He said it was also valuable for the district to lay out the specifics of 
project priority, so people could understand why the district was looking at rebuilding Geneva 
Elementary before other schools, for example. 
Mr. Jarman said he spoke to some public relations experts who worked on a national level and 
asked them what it took to pass a bond. They said the important thing was to get the information 
out to the public early and openly communicate. He said they would welcome any thoughts or 
ideas from the Council as well. 
Mayor Bruns! said he had learned that if someone saw something at least three times, they 
started to get the message. He thought a good ad campaign would go a long way. 
Mrs. Black asked if they were planning to present information at cluster meetings. 
Superintendent Jarman said their first campaign would be to show accountability for the bond at 
eighty sites. They hoped to have.meetings that reached out to .smaller groups and show them how 
the bond would benefit that group specifically. 
Mr. Davidson said even in comparison Provo's possible bond, an Alpine School District bond 
would be cheaper than a Provo bond in terms of scale, loo19ng at cost per student. 
Mr. Jarman said that was an advantage of being a large group with economy of scale. He said 
most people looked at Timpanogos High School as a new school, but it was nearly twenty years 
old at this point. They had to redo the parking lot there, which had cost over $500,000 for that 
project alone and they were looking at redoing the roof for $4 million. He hoped the message to 
Orem residents was that they got a good deal for what was spent on tax dollars. 
Set Date and Time for Next 
The next meeting was scheduled for January 20, 2015, at noon in Orem. 
The meeting adjourned at I :27 p.m. 
Joint Orem City COunciV Alpine School District Minutes - November 18, 2015 (p.8) 



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Donna R. Weaver, City Recorder 
Approved: January 26, 2016 
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Joint Orem City Council/ Alpine School District Minutes - November 18, 2015 (p.9)