City Council · 2019-01-08

3, uh, Officer Shimmers with Provo Police Department was shot and killed in the parking lot at Bed Bath Beyond here. Um, I'll just give you some basic information because we are in an open meeting and we do have an open investigation. There's a lot of things we don't know right now, but, uh, we had information that there— we'd actually, uh, Mr. Hoover, which is the suspect, uh, we knew that he had been, uh, making some kind of third-party threats toward law enforcement in the sense that he would have been telling people that he was not going to go back to prison. He did have some felony warrants out for his arrest, and we knew that he had a gun as well. He had run from us, actually in November he had fled from one of our officers and we stopped pursuit. We knew who he was, but we didn't want to risk any injury to anyone else. He had also had some other run-ins with the law as well. And so they found out where he was through some information.

Now, they meaning Provo?

Provo. Some Provo officers had found out where he was through some information. Asked for our assistance in the parking lot of Bed Bath Beyond. Unfortunately, the events went south on them.

We brought in 2 cars, they brought in 2 cars.

Well, no, no, it was actually a little bit different than that.

They—

but nonetheless, they, they tried to take him into custody. He was in his vehicle. Uh, while they were trying to take him into custody, he took off. Just actually punched the gas, hit the building, the Bed Bath Beyond building. Our officers were on the— kind of in and on the vehicle in a sense as they were going. We were very lucky that there wasn't more— there weren't more injuries than there were, even though the one that there was was the ultimate. He hit the building of Bed Bath& Beyond, no real damage to it, but in that melee there were 2 shots fired, one by the suspect, one by Officer Shinners. Unfortunately, Officer Shinners did have his vest on, bulletproof vest, Unfortunately, the bullet did enter in a spot where he is unprotected by the vest, and he didn't die immediately. They were able to get him to the hospital. They loaded him in a police vehicle and took off as fast as they could, got him to Provo Hospital, and unfortunately he was pronounced dead there. The suspect was also shot, and we believe it was by Officer Shivers, so he was able to return fire. Right now he's in custody. He is at the hospital and in stable condition, and we're still dealing with that situation as far as we do have him in custody. Adult Probation and Parole has stepped up big time with that and helped us out. Provo Police Department and us have also obviously worked really closely together through this whole thing. And the Officer Involved Shooting Protocol Team, which is basically made up of the Investigations Unit of the Utah County Attorney's Office as well as officers from other agencies other than Provo and Orem that are assigned to that team come in. And they're doing a parallel investigation. We're going to handle the criminal investigation and then let Provo deal with their loss and the planning of a funeral and so forth. And so that's really where we stand right now. We did have a few officers that had some minor injuries. We did have one officer that in trying to get to the suspect had tried to break out the window and hurt his hand pretty good. It's not broken, but that night we had to take him down to the emergency room and get him treated. We had another officer that had some minor cut. We did have some minor damage to an old, old patrol car when he backed up into it, but that wasn't too bad. So, We had some great heroism. One of our officers jumped into action, and he has some military background, and jumped into action and probably saved the suspect's life through some first aid. And we all have trauma kits. He was able to grab his trauma kit, and before the ambulance got there, he was able to pack some— pack his wound pretty good.

Where was he shot?

I can't really get into details exactly, but I think he was shot in the side, a little part of the side, but I don't have the positives on that. That's kind of speculation in here, so I don't want to go there. Well, like I say, there was a lot of heroism. The fact that we had one officer who was in training, and he was actually the first to notice that Officer Shinnors had been shot, and immediately went into action to help try and figure out what was going on and get him some help. And then they— he actually jumped in the vehicle with the parole officer to transport him to the hospital. I was unfortunate enough to be at the hospital all night long with the family, which is a very humbling— I guess a very humbling experience to be there with them when they find out that their loved one is has died and has passed away. But, uh, they come from— he comes from a background in public service. His father was a firefighter. His brothers are both law enforcement officers in Massachusetts.

And he lives where?

He lives in Springville. The funeral will be in Springville, uh, or the funeral— I'm sorry, will be here. The burial will be in Springville. Uh, we do— we are working with Provo right now on the funeral arrangements, so So he will be at UCCU Center down here at UVU.

Yeah.

And we're working on— what we're proposing, and I think will probably happen, is that after the funeral, the procession will then, as you probably are aware, at a police officer funeral, there tends to be quite a procession. That procession will probably come from UCCU Center— from UVU. It'll go northbound on 1200 West. Initially, they were looking at going onto the parkway and then going south on the freeway. Unfortunately, that would completely close down—

Everything.

Everything on the parkway. What we're proposing is that they go northbound on 1200 West to Center, then onto the freeway. We can allow north and southbound traffic to continue on Geneva Road. We can actually even allow southbound freeway traffic to get off at Center Street. We'll do the procession south on the freeway to Springville. And then in Springville they'll go to the 70.

Will you close the southbound on the freeway?

We would probably close the— we would probably continue the southbound freeway, we would just take up the outside lane is what I believe would be proposed so that it's not closed down. We don't want to— we want to not obstruct as much— well, we don't want to obstruct any more than we need to, and that's why we're trying to figure out the best way to go about it while still keeping things open enough that people can get to where they need to get to. And so that's what's proposed. But again, Provo was the ones doing the planning. We're just trying to give our best efforts to minimize the impact here on Orem.

Sure.

Tom?

I told the chief I thought he did a wonderful job when I saw him on the news. I wish he hadn't been there. Could you help me a little bit about protocol?

He was a Provo officer, and yet you took such a commanding lead.

Is that because it happened in Orem? Can you tell me what protocol is?

Well, I mean, the fact that it happened in Orem, the fact that it was a pro bono officer— in all reality, I was trying to take a back seat. The fact that I was— the reason I was there, and that Chief Ferguson and I, we've been good friends for a long time, but I was trying to help him in a capacity. And I told him that night, don't let me step on your toes at all. You tell me what to do. I want to be there for you. But at the same time, we have to acknowledge that that patch on his shoulder does not minimize the hurt that it has for the Oron Police Department. He was on our SWAT team, which is— we are a joint SWAT team with Pearl Police Department. So our agency, our officers trained with him. They knew him. They went to the academy with him. They were personal friends off duty with him.

And UVU feels the loss too.

Yes, they do. And so the fact that he was in our city, but a probo officer doesn't— it kind of— there is no real protocol for that. I mean, basically it blends the two of us together. The fact that probo has to deal with family situation, get the wife in there, I mean, that's what every agency hopefully has in place is that ability to get to the house, get the family, help them. And so that's what we're trying to be there for. The reason I took the presence in, in the— is that we are dealing with the criminal case, and obviously people have a question about that. Um, when I stood up, I mean, obviously that day I told them I'm not going to give you a name because today is not about him. Uh, and I did not want that to be about him because it wasn't. I didn't— I wanted it to be about Officer Shinders, and it was.

And the news was—

You did that very well. They were fantastic to do that and actually make it be about him. Uh, we released his name yesterday, and, and I actually talked to a lot of the reporters as they came through yesterday. And I think Officer— Lieutenant Kaulich actually is covering for Lieutenant Martinez while he's out of town. Did an excellent job. I thought he looked great on the news.

So you probably don't know this, but was he under the influence of drugs at the time?

I could take a very, very probable guess at yes.

Okay.

And more details will come on that, but I would— I mean, obviously we don't have his blood work yet. We will, we will have that, but, uh, I would, I would tend to say that if I were a betting man, it would be a yes.

Well, we certainly appreciate the fine efforts, and, um, you know, it's a very tough situation. I, you know, we had another police officer and A few years back, killed the same way, underneath his armpit. I wish there was a way we could get the protection in that area, and I don't know how to, but—

Well, and that's what I was kind of talking to Jamie today about this, and the problem is we do have some good body armor, but the more protection we get— and we actually provided all of our officers with additional body armor that we don't wear every day. It's ceramic body armor for rifle rounds. And we have those in our vehicle, but they weigh 40 pounds each. Obviously, we already carry 25 pounds of gear on us every day.

Sure.

And so what happens is, as the body armor becomes more and more protective, it becomes more and more uncomfortable.

Sure.

And so you get this give and take of, if the officer's uncomfortable, he may not wear it.

Sure.

If it's comfortable, or at least semi-comfortable, they wear it, and then they have protection. If they don't wear it, then they have no protection.

Maybe something that would, you know, an extra little flap or something.

I guess the problem is even if it went in the shoulder, our skin and our bones, I mean, you're always going to have that Achilles heel that's going to be exposed. And we try, and honestly technology has improved a lot, and I wish there were something that were better. I do. But it just seems that unfortunately the bad guys seem to get these lucky shots. And, you know, if you remember years ago in Lehigh, Joe Adams was killed by a drunk driver who took a shot over his shoulder and it just happened to get him in the wrong spot. And, you know, that's what officers do. We come out here knowing that that's a possibility. I think that's what sets us apart from a lot of people is that these officers come out knowing— you know, we don't expect it, we really don't, but at the same time, this is a reality check for all of us that— even in Orem, Utah, this could happen, and it did. And so, um, we're humbled. Uh, it'll, it'll, we'll be okay, but our officers are hurting. We'll have a lot of other officers. You may see some outside agency cars over the next few days, if not at least on Saturday, taking calls in our city. And that's because I want anybody in Orem that wants to be at the funeral there at the funeral.

Sure.

And so we're going to actually have some outside agencies possibly help us out. So you might see some Mapleton cars or Springville cars or who knows what they could call it in our city, but that's because they want to help.

Well, thank you for your efforts.

Thank you.

And I appreciate the way you represent the city.

Thank you.

All right, we'll go ahead and start our meeting. I think, Jackie, we're on. Uh, we welcome everyone out to our work session today, and we did take a tour through Geneva Park, which was very helpful. And now we're going to have a presentation by Sean Sigurd from Metropolitan Planning Organization on our MAG TransPlan 2050. So Sean, I'll turn the time over to you.

Thank you, Mayor Brunson.

And we've got 45 minutes, so up until 5 o'clock.

Okay, perfect. A little bit of orientation to the organization. We work for the mayors and county commissioners in Summit County, Wasatch County, and Utah County.

And the Sure.

Maybe one thing I can just mention is that throughout our state we have groups of counties that are regional planning organizations for transportation, and the federal government requires that.

Yeah, that's great. So yeah, that's, that's right, Mayor. And so we try to coordinate with those other MPOs. There's one in Cache County up in Logan. Wasatch Front Regional Council, which is Weber, Davis, Salt Lake County. This one here in Utah County, and then we have one in St. George, the Dixie and Theo. So we all try to work together. Outside of transportation planning, we do a couple other things like Meals on Wheels for people that might be in need. Typically shut-in people, not people with rotator cuff injuries, but we could make an application and see where it goes. Volunteer opportunities. We have home programs like weatherization. Emergency heating assistance. So if you know of anyone that can't pay their utility bill this month, we have a one-time payment through a program. We have some economic development committees that we have. We have community reinvestment funds. Community reinvestment funds from American Express, from different banks that pool their money. We have a Shark Tank-like presentation. They come in, pitch their product. Maybe some of you folks have sat on that for us. before or experienced that. And then we have community development block grant programs. You have your own CDBG program here within the city since you're a direct recipient. So anyway, that's the broad overview. I'm Shawn Seger. I'm the planning director for the transportation program here in Utah County. I get to meet with your mayor once a month at least. In fact, we were together last Thursday along with all the other mayors and county commissioners in Utah County. I'm That's our board meeting. That's our board of directors meeting. It's all those mayors and county commissioners in Utah County, plus UDOT and UTA. So all those people working together, trying to create a transportation plan that meets that future travel demand. We're with your staff on a monthly basis, if not more frequently. I was with Paul and Sam last week. Great to work with. Your development staff as well, Bill and Jason. Just love working with these guys and have that chance to get all the technical staff together once a month as well at our Technical Advisory Committee meetings. So they meet once a month as well. So, okay, on to this new transportation plan. So real briefly, as the mayor mentioned, we worked with 3 other MPOs and the state of Utah to produce a transportation plan called Utah's Unified Transportation Plan.

UTP.

If you look inside this document, you'll see that there's $80 billion, $80 billion with a B, in terms of needs through the year 2040. What we can actually fund is about $67 billion. So we think we can get to $67 billion of those needs. If you just look at the Utah County portion, this is the plan that we're in right now, TransPlan 40. This is a $15 billion plan just for Utah County through the year 2040. I think the state of Utah's budget this year is around $14 or $15 billion. So that kind of puts it in scale of what we're talking about. We do 3 main things with our transportation planning work. We produce this long-range transportation plan every 4 years, and it typically goes out 20 years. And I'll talk about the new one in just a minute. We bring people together, which is what I just mentioned about the mayors and county commissioners. And then we program money. So we have— the mayors actually program funds. This is the Transportation Improvement Plan for Utah County. It has $1 billion identified in it. This money is what I call real money and is in place today. This money in this plan is what I call Monopoly money. What's the difference? And things we think we're going to be able to get to in the future. So there's $1 billion in that today for Utah County of improvements. If you look over the past, oh, 5 to 8 years or so, we've spent about $4 billion in Utah County in transportation improvements and different projects that are substantial projects. So we've— that's kind of a reflection of the growth that we're seeing, and I'm going to go through that right now. Any questions I can answer before I start to talk about the next piece? Yes.

The $67 billion you talked about, is that based off of current state budget, the status quo, nothing changes, we're on pace for $67 billion?

Yes, that's a trend projection. So we look back 20 years, we say that's about what we've done, let's project that forward 20 years, and then it assumes some new revenue sources in there based on previous approvals. So it's kind of a trend projection. That's right.

And most of that comes from UDOT?

It's a combination. You'll see about, what is that, $300 million a year from the federal government. Those are in gas taxes that you pay at the pump. It goes to Washington, D.C. It comes back to us. So about $300 million per year in federal funds. UDOT's program is about $1.5 billion per year.

For the state?

For the state of Utah, for UDOT totally. UTA's budget is about $450 million per year. So you can see these big chunks of money coming into place.

Is UTA for operations or just for improvement?

That's both capital, operation, maintenance, preservation. So that $450 is their full budget. If you looked at their CAFR, Their annual report, that would be their total budget, and this year it's $450 million.

And how much of that kind of comes from the cities and the county?

From Utah County, we put in about $40 million a year into UTA. Total sales tax revenue to UTA is around $300 million, something like that. Salt Lake, Davis-Weber, Utah County together.

Those are the quarter cents?

Yeah, the quarter cents that fund UTA. Then they have some federal funds. They have a little bit of revenue from farebox collection, some advertising revenue.

And do cities directly contribute to MAG as well?

Yes, on an annual basis.

Part of our road funding goes that direction?

Not road funding, meaning that you keep all of your B&C road funds that you're collecting from the gas tax. Sales tax that's generated within your cities goes directly to Utah Transit Authority. And then a piece of your sales tax goes to Utah County and is held in a Utah County account. But then all the mayors and county commissioners get to decide how to use that piece of that sales tax. That's the 3rd quarter cent sales tax. So yeah, you're right. So that's kind of a broad orientation. I've got a little bit of a background. This is all available on our website at mountainland.org. If you go to transportation plan, you'll see this story map, we call it. So this is the plan we're in right now, TransPlan 40. It goes to the year 2040. We're going to add 10 more years to this in this next plan. We're going to approve this plan, we hope, in June of this year. And it will go from 2019 to 2050. So it looks out about 31 years or so. So we're gonna add 10 more years of population and employment.

So do you, um, do you know back, going backwards, uh, how far out they would plan? So in 1960, how far out? 1970?

Yes, I do. I wish I would have brought with me the 1965 Transportation plan for Utah County. I had it at some of our open houses. I remember seeing it.

How far out did that plan go?

They were looking out 20 years. And that's what's required by the federal government is to look 20 years into the future.

And in '70 or '75 they were looking at?

Yeah, '95. Okay.

And have you compared or looked to see what their thoughts were and what reality is?

Yes.

How close they were?

Commissioner Millington, Kent Millington, who was a UDOT commissioner for us and who is now our UTA trustee, asked me this question when he got into office about 8 years ago. We compared plans. And in general, we found this, that our population and employment projections given to us by the Governor's Office of Management say Utah County is going to be this much in the future. In general, the projection was too low by 20%. So they were too conservative in that projection of population and employment. Some of the projects are fascinating. In the 1965 plan, they contemplate I-15.

Yeah, because that didn't come into play until '70 or '73 or something.

That's right. And this practice of looking backwards and projecting forward for us has worked pretty good until now. And what I'm, what I'm gonna get into a little bit with you, I think—

Give us the good news.

Yeah, I'm gonna give you good news.

That bridge is in.

It's not usable yet, but that particular bridge is in, isn't it?

It's usable.

Yeah, well, now I think that this, this illustration is in Eagle Mountain. Oh, that's in Eagle Mountain. This is visualizing SR 73 becoming A freeway.

Okay.

And this is a rendering of that at Ranches Parkway, if I'm not mistaken. I was going to ask that question before I got here.

Yeah, it looks like the Triumph Bridge.

It does.

It looks a lot like Triumph Bridge as well. But then I noticed there's not the hospital and other features.

Or buildings, yeah.

Yeah.

And then this Maverick right there is— that's an existing Maverick.

I think it is.

It is, yeah.

So that's kind of a broad overview. I'm gonna, you know, in general, you guys know what the population is doing here. I'll get into that in just a minute. I've got a little video to show. It's about 4 minutes. It talks about growth in Utah County. If that's all right, Jamie, I'll show that real briefly.

Utah County is a desirable place to live, work, and recreate. Communities are strong. Good jobs are abundant.

The economy is growing.

The cost of living remains comfortably low. With boundless opportunities for entertainment and recreation, Utah County is a great place to be. With so much to offer, residents want to stay and raise families, and others are joining them. By 2035, the population of Utah County will nearly double to 1 million people. That is as large as Salt Lake County is today. By 2065, Utah County's population is projected to become as large as Salt Lake County at 1.6 million residents, surpassing Seattle's, San Diego's, and Philadelphia's current populations. With this growth comes new neighbors, new businesses.

And new challenges?

Rapid growth presents challenges in urban areas. An example region might look like this one, with various communities including large established cities, smaller towns, and rural areas with minimal population density. Rapid population growth can stress transportation systems as cities grow, residential towns sprawl out, and the rural areas develop. Choke points in the system intensify and develop in new areas. People aren't able to effectively get from point A to point B. Free-flowing communities become threatened by the inability of people to move efficiently from place to place. For those in outlying residential areas, the benefits of living away from the big city begin to be outweighed by the hours spent in cars, increasing costs, and intolerable congestion. Increased accessibility and connectivity in these places increases efficiencies in transportation within and across communities. Connectivity through a grid, for example, generally provides travelers with several options for getting from point A to point B and disperses traffic in areas where it would otherwise bottleneck. Transit solutions like commuter rail, light rail, buses, bicycle paths, and pedestrian paths to provide connectivity and congestion relief. The communities of Utah County are facing similar transportation challenges. These challenges are intensified by geographic constraints like mountains, lakes, and rivers. Currently, there are critical choke points at the point of the mountain, east and western Lehi into Cedar Valley, Lindon, and between Provo and Springville. Over time, traffic has increased in a dramatic fashion and is expected to more than double by 2050, even with currently planned projects. Consider what that means— doubling the amount of traffic at the point of the mountain in Lehi and between Provo and Springville. Delays on the roads are expected to increase 13-fold. If you're experiencing 4 or 5-minute delays today at current choke points, you could be experiencing over an hour of delay in the coming years unless we do something now. These impacts can be reduced by coordinated transportation planning efforts by local, state, and federal leaders, economic and business developers, and the public. As we solve these problems together, we should consider ways to build a more viable transportation grid that connects communities and provides more access. We should implement more transportation options, including transit and trails. Mountainland Association of Governments, along with UDOT and UTA, facilitate and coordinate the regional transportation planning effort. When we work together in developing a regional transportation plan, we are more likely to satisfy the needs and interests of each community, including yours. Utah County will continue to be a desirable place to live, work, and recreate as we plan for the future.

We had the Langdon Group help us with that, put that together to try to communicate this challenge of Rapid-growing community, the grid network. We have Lewis Young Roberts in Birmingham as our financial agent that helps us with all of our numbers, try to pull all those numbers together and see that we're doing it in an appropriate way. So this is not all internal staff. We're relying on experts to help us with this stuff. And it's a challenge to stay on top of it, on top of all this stuff, as you guys very well know.

Thank you.

The big takeaway that I always am surprised and still shocked with is that Utah County will add more people, more absolute people, than Davis, Weber, and Salt Lake combined by the year 2050. So we're going to add more people than these traditionally the metropolitan— the central business district of the state of Utah has added into Utah County. It's amazing to me. We all see this happening in Vineyard, Saratoga Springs. Eagle Mountain and projects that are taking place here in Orem. So that's our big challenge is how do we accommodate that? And this graph shows it a little bit. You can see Utah County's existing population with this dark bar graph and then this light green is how much we're going to add in total population. You look at what Salt Lake County is today, they're at about a million, we're at about 600,000. They're going to add that much, Davis and then Weber County.

So that's a lot of people.

Davis and Weber have not added as much population as you'd think that they would have added over the past 10 years. 20,000 in Davis, 40,000 in Weber. We've been adding that every— I don't know, I'm not going to use the right— I'm not going to say the number because I'll get it wrong, but our rate of growth is just stunning.

It looks like Washington is the biggest percentage increase.

Is that right? Yeah, probably so. If you looked at Washington on a percentage basis, 206%. Do that to us.

Yeah, click on Utah County and say—

Yeah, 160. So these— the red indication is the quantity of—

Right, right.

I understood that. I was just looking at the bars and it looked a lot bigger percentage-wise.

Let's see what Paiute's doing. 33%, but they're pretty small, so it's easy for them to—

How does that factor in second homes as opposed to primary residences?

It does.

St.

George has a lot of Yeah, it does account for second homes. As you guys know, from a property tax perspective, that's a tricky thing to account for as well.

We have wealthy members in here who have a second home in St. George.

Right.

Mr. Sumner, Mr. Davidson.

If you looked at Utah County and said, where's all this growth going to go? Here we are today. We've broken it up into quadrants. We said the west quadrant has 127,000 pop today. In the year 2050, it'll have 400,000 pop. Look at the central area. That includes Vineyard, I think a piece of Linden, Orem, Provo together. 226, 320. Look at the south quadrant. 140,000 today, 390,000. So massive amounts of growth. This is based off of building permit data and then a complex model called the real estate market model that tries to calculate the value of property and its access to transportation facilities. It says these properties will turn on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

So it kind of goes through that process.

I do have a question.

Yes. Going more than Salt Lake, is that because they're They're pretty much built out, and so there's not a whole lot more to go.

That's right. In fact—

Land availability.

Land availability. That's right. A lot of Salt Lake County is built out. And then you'd say, where would it go next? Tooele, Davis, Weber, or south? And in most metropolitan areas, you find a desirable growth direction. So I'm going to try to use an example. Phoenix growing towards Chandler or whatever it might be, has a particular growth pattern. Salt Lake County's— or the Salt Lake metro area has a growth desirability south for some reason. That's the development pattern that we're seeing take place.

Which is interesting because it's not north.

Yeah.

It's south.

Yeah.

But I think that's due to the Provo, Orem, southern area connecting with the Salt Lake area.

You have 2 big metro areas connecting together, that relationship. So same thing with jobs and employment, you can see that. We even can get down into the traffic analysis zone.

Woo!

So what I mean by that is the computer model uses these TAS zones. I used the wrong one there. Let me see if I can refresh that. But these zones are like a zip code. are like census blocks. And let me see if I can do that here. So in this particular census block, or this TAZ zone, we have 1,000 jobs in 2017. In 2050, we anticipate we'll have 2,000 jobs. So it's a very detailed forecast, block by block by block, of what we think will take place. Just one more piece on growth. And it kind of goes into the grid network discussion. If you look at Salt Lake County, this is a map in the 1800s, late 1800s. It looks at Salt Lake County and how it was planned out. And Salt Lake County was developed around Salt Lake City, and then it grew south. In fact, when I built my first house in Draper in 1995, it was kind of the outer reaches of the metropolitan area of Salt Lake County. And now all of a sudden, Draper's right in the middle of everything. So it has that— had that growth direction from Salt Lake City headed south. Utah County was settled by individual settlements. You know, you think about Provo and Springville and Lehi and American Fork. These people were called here to settle these areas and to build individual grid systems. So that grid network in Provo is separate from the grid network in Lehi. Think about your addressing system. system in Utah County. In Utah County, it's separate by city by city. In Salt Lake County, you have a consistent grid network and a consistent address system. So what has happened is that Salt Lake County grew very methodically from Salt Lake City south, and UDOT invested heavily in that grid network. Utah Department of Transportation. You think about the great grid network that Utah— that Salt Lake County has starting At North Temple, and it goes to 5th South.

So, Shawn, by grid, you're saying streets that are going north and south, east and west, at intervals where people can get from A to B fairly easily, rather than a winding cow path here and one over here.

Yeah, and that it was coordinated. So that grid network, this Scottish plaid that you can see on the right, is the Institute of Transportation Engineers Recommended grid network spacing. The red lines are freeways. So they recommend a freeway every 5 miles. They recommend an arterial road every 1 mile, a collector road every half mile, and so on.

Sorry, is that spacing based off of population density, or is that just in general, no matter where you put it, it's 5 miles?

In a metropolitan area, which means an area that has a density of 50,000 population or greater that's concentrated. So it is specific to a metro area. You would not see this recommendation out in a rural part of the state of Utah.

But no matter how large we grow, essentially that wouldn't change?

Yes, that's right. No matter how dense you get, this grid network should serve that metropolitan area very well. And so, Mayor, you're right, you know, that it's based off of this grid network of streets intersecting with each other on this, on This recommended system. If you look at Salt Lake County, they do really quite well. You know, 13 south and 2,100 south and 3,300 south and 4,500 south and 53 and 72 and 94 and 106, 120, 114, 123, and so on. Utah County, we kind of hit and miss, you know. And the same thing east to west. In Salt Lake County, you've got I-215, or you got Wasatch Boulevard, I-215 on the east, Van Weemel.

So are you going to discuss maybe on another slide, I don't know, the time factors with regards to grid versus no grid?

I will.

In fact, do you ever see 3-numbering on Utah County?

No, from a— we tried that once and got beat up.

Yeah, Orem wants it to start with them, Provo wants it to start with them. It's not so much the numbering system, it's the actual roads.

Yeah, that's right. It's actually—

As far as the grid goes.

Yeah. So if we were to look at congestion without the grid, so if we don't build a grid network in Utah County and we only— we keep building freeways, which is what we've been doing. We've been building big roads. And then UDOT says, I can't believe that this road has been filled up. Why is this— why are people not taking the alternatives? And the reaction is, is there is no alternative. You only have big roads to take: Pioneer Crossing, North County Boulevard, SR 92, Timpanogos Highway, and so on. So we have, of all the things that we are recommending in this TransPlan 50 that works the best, it's the grid network. And I'll get into some details on this. Travel times without the grid network.

This is what's really interesting.

Yep, so these, these kind of numbers, you know, that go from 39 minutes today to an hour and 16.

So Provo to Payson, 18 minutes today, 1 hour in 2050. At what time of day?

This is peak PM, I believe.

Lehi to Salt Lake, 41 minutes versus 1 hour.

This is kind of the kind of Chicken Little slide. This is, you know, I'm gonna scare you, you know, but I've got a solution for this as well. And we've developed a pretty good solution to this, we think. So this is that ideal grid network now imposed in Utah County without the freeways. I'll get to the freeways in just a minute. But if you look at this ideal grid network of arterials and collectors, We say this is what would be— this is what fits us. So we took that Scottish plaid of that Institute of Transportation Engineers grid, we superimposed it in Utah County, this is what we get. And then you see these yellow highlighted roads. These are roads that are recommended to fulfill that ITE grid spacing network that are not there today. So we're seeing this system of yellow roads that needs to be built all through Utah County in order to make that grid happen. As you get further out into Saratoga Springs, Eagle Mountain, you'll see more of that grid network be highlighted. So that's what Salt Lake County enjoys today that we are not enjoying today and that we think will make a big difference in us.

And then you also had 2 white lines across the lake.

Right. Let's look at the freeway, expressway grid.

Sir, before we get too far, can we just go back to that image of Orem there?

Yes.

I mean, most of what I'm seeing here in Orem, we already have arterials there. It would just be a matter of enhancing, maybe widening. Can you tell me a little bit more about how you would see this, the grid system issue impacting our Orem roads?

Very small impact.

Very small impact, meaning that you guys have a great grid network. You guys have an excellent grid system right now. The way that Provo and Orem were planned out and laid out originally by the founding fathers laid out a very good grid system. You'll see one or two little suggestions. Maybe these can take place, maybe they can't. We don't know enough about them yet to tell you what kind of environmental impacts, social impacts, these things happen.

One of the big ones you should show is 1600 North from the freeway in.

That's right. So in fact, I think we have a road there now, Mayor, but we want to make it wider.

It's got to be wider.

Yeah, and I'll get into that in just a second.

What about the interchange aspect that's kind of south between Orem and Provo? There was discussion on 820 North versus 2000 South.

Right, that's an active study right now by the Utah Department of Transportation. I think Aaron Pinkerton is the project manager, if I'm recalling. No, it's Dan Abella is the PM. You guys will be involved in that study. It's an EIS, so they're going into a full environmental document. They call it the Provo North Interchange.

What is that? What does your map kind of show?

Sorry, I will show you a map of recommended improvements, but this is just showing that grid now. We definitely need an interchange between University Parkway and Provo Center Street. 3.5 miles. It's the longest distance in an urbanized area that we have all along the Wasatch Front without an interchange. So 3.5 miles, no interchange between those two, and it's really calling for one based on this grid network.

The freeways.

Real briefly, I won't get into too much detail, but if you look at the freeway system in Salt Lake County, it does a pretty good job. The one missing area is the southwest quadrant of Salt Lake County. And guess where all the— a lot of the traffic problems are? Southwest quadrant of Salt Lake County. There's a whole mayor's coalition that's been built to try to figure out how to do something in the southwest quadrant of Utah.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear of you.

Salt Lake County. If you look at that 5-mile freeway spacing and you start at Bangater, and from Bangater you go to 2100 North, which is Mountain View Freeway, that's about 5 miles.

Another—

you go another 5 miles south and you're about here in the lake somewhere.

So stay with that slide for a minute. I was just gonna— no, go back. Oh, right there. So I was just gonna say, notice that there are 2 freeways going across Utah Lake east and west, but also one going north and south between Springville and Provo right there. And then also the freeway on the west side of the lake.

Yeah, that's right.

All of that is Are things we don't have.

That's right. Mountain View Freeway, you know, you've probably heard about this project. We have sections of it under construction today in Utah County. UDOT has recently conducted a study to extend Mountain View through Saratoga Springs, so that it looks as though that UDOT will be embracing that further. As I just— as we were looking at that slide out at Ranches Parkway, SR-73 becomes a freeway. The environmental document is done on that, I believe, and they're pursuing a record of decision on that. So massive amounts of construction. The video kind of ends with, you gotta do transit, trails, but we gotta build a lot of roadway capacity. That's what we gotta do. When you add a million people to your metro area, you're gonna build a lot of roadway capacity.

Plus, But if you actually did have 2 freeway bridges over the lake and another freeway north-south, that would really alleviate a lot of problems.

Yes. Think about Legacy Parkway in connection with I-15 in Davis County. It's a reliever freeway. We almost look at this freeway system as something Like that. We have a Vineyard Connector right now that does a pretty good job. It comes down to Orem, 800 North. And then we say, what do we do from there going south? We can probably do something in the existing freeway itself, a freeway within a freeway. You'll see this done up in Salt Lake with a collector-distributor system from, what is it, 2100 North to 6 South, where you have these systems that are collecting traffic.

And then And distributing it.

then getting it onto I-15. You could do it with frontage roads, which is what we're building at the point of the mountain right now. The new I-15 Lehigh Technology Corridor project builds one-way frontage roads.

Because part of the problem is people that are trying to get from north to south, but you're only talking 3 miles, are ending up going on the freeway and using the freeway as an arterial road or a collector road, and so it just jams up the freeway.

That's right.

It creates a bunch of friction. So I won't go into too much detail on— this basically shows how we build the different projects. This blue map on the left is the recommended projects for the first phase of the plan. And then we can just click through these.

And one of those is the Vineyard Connector.

That's right.

So that's actually going from 800 North, you'd go through Vineyard and connect out by the lake and then head north up to Pioneer Crossing. That's right.

Big pieces of the Vineyard Connector are in place today. If you drive out 800 North, you'll see that that's the start of the Vineyard Connector. So that's kind of an overview of the freeway, the grid, the freeway. Maybe I'll go to transit if that's all right. Unless you have questions about the roadway, more roadway stuff?

No, go ahead.

Okay.

Loads, that's the 2050 plan. And for the first time ever in my career at Mountainland, we're showing a lake crossing as a funded project, meaning that we can justify it. It has enough trips on it per day to justify that being in a funded phase.

That's the And that one there, you're showing 800 North or you're showing Provo?

On this, to be decided on that map. That's right. On the map we say we need to study this.

We need to know more.

Because I've watched some say it's definitely Provo Airport, others say no, it's 800 North out of Vineyard.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Have you had Leon Harwood in your office yet?

Uh, yes.

Okay, then Leon's got an idea of where he wants to He's got a private financing firm that he's trying to put money in.

And this island that could be built, is that—

That's what he's dreaming about.

Oh, that's still Leon? Okay.

Yeah, so, you know, there's some fascinating ideas, and this is the first plan that we will recommend that some type of bridge structure be considered in, in the plan itself. That makes some land on the west side of the lake worth a lot more money.

That's right.

Well, Alberta right now, $2,000 an acre. No water, no sewer, no power.

They just live off Campbell and wheat.

All right, so our transit network is coming along. We've got a bus system out there. We've got a commuter rail system. We got the new UVX that I'm sure you've heard about and probably ridden and seen interact with UVU and BYU, and it's doing great. Just a note on UVX, that bus line had 2,000 riders on it a day before UVX opened up. Now it's got 10,000 riders on it a day, so it's doing great. Went from 2 to 10. That being said, Transit only carries about 1% of our total trips in the entire system statewide. So we need to do more with transit. We need to make transit easier to use, and that's part of the initiative of UVU and BYU making passes free for the students and their families, and I think we'll see more of that in the future. Any questions on the existing transit system?

And our federal grant makes it free for all the citizens in Utah County.

That's right. And then we added another component that said for 3 years we're going to have UVX be fare-free. And now we're trying to figure out a way to continue that free aspect of UVX in the future, working with one of Councilmember Seestrand's students actually on an app that they developed. Mayor, if you remember the Innovation Challenge?

Yes. Yep.

So we had him in our office yesterday. We're excited about it.

Oh, good.

So we'll figure that out. About 8,000 riders a day on the bus system. About 10,000 riders a day on commuter rail today. In the future, if you look out to the year 2050, these dark lines are lines that we think can justify rail construction.

So South County really wants mass transit, and they're working hard for it.

That's right. And we'll get into phasing, what we recommend. But in general, if you just look at the travel demand model and you say in the year 2050 with all the population and employment we have, here's what we think we could justify from a construction perspective. That we think this will compete very well on the national level for federal funding. These dark lines are rail lines. The blue is maybe a BRT or some type of a commuter rail. And then the red is a good bus, really fast bus service. And then if you look at the transit projects and how we phase those. So phasing means first 10 years, second 10 years, third 10 years of the plan. Try to ask ourselves what we can afford. If you look at this map that I set in front of you, this is the needs plan that I was just showing you on the screen ahead. It shows you this is what good ridership would be. And it would compete well at the national level. And then I show you what we can actually afford to build. And it's this map. That says fiscally constrained. There's more copies against the wall if anyone wants those in the audience. So I'll hold those 2 up together and you'll see that the needs list is much more rich than what we can actually afford, which is intuitive. You'd suspect that we could probably justify more than what we can afford.

Financially constrained.

But it's really— From our perspective, from staff's perspective, we look at the heavy investment that Salt Lake made in rail over the past 20 years, and that's what Utah County is going to probably need to do with transit, is figure out additional ways to invest in transit in Utah County. And this is based on that trend financial forecast that we were talking about. It's about a quarter cent sales tax every decade.

So you're saying that we need to do more than just the 1/4 cent sales tax?

But GoToTransit is what funds that piece of it. So that's kind of an overview of our transit piece. Any thoughts or ideas on the transit piece you have? We got a team studying BRT on 7th Street.

That's what I was just going to say. I think we, in cooperation with MAG and UDOT and UTA, And UVU, we're going to start having conversations about North County Transit and developing a plan to essentially speak to this in specifics. In addition to that, we're looking to extend a BRT line from Lehi to Provo and see here— in fact, several weeks ago, and I think I shared this with you, we met with the chair of UTA, Carlton Christensen, and had a conversation with him about, you know, where we would like to go as North County cities in relation to transit. I think Sean was in attendance at the meeting. UTA was there, obviously, UDOT, and all the cities were represented from essentially Provo North to Lehi And very strong response and support from the business sector.

This is a great example, Jamie. I think what I have learned over my career is you have to advocate for yourself and you need to build coalitions.

And that's—

those 2 things is what Jamie's been organizing with the other city managers on this proposed route. And then to have Carlton Christiansen here that day was fantastic. And now we have a new trustee with Kent Millington that's in place today. I think he passed the Senate hearing yesterday.

He did.

Thank you. And so great stuff, and you got to make your own future.

One of the things that, you know, Orem is kind of serving as the lead on is with our State Street master plan, we had developed a long-term general plan, an idea as to the future of the State Street corridor. And obviously some of that will include enhanced business, enhanced density, residential, so on and so forth that makes transit work. But you get into Linden, you get into Pleasant Grove, you get into American Fork, and they haven't done that work yet. And it only works if There is that congregation of uses and mass along that corridor. And so our city and our planning and development services staff are going to actually take the lead in trying to help other cities understand what we did, so they in return can do the same thing, which makes this north-south line far more attractive. And frankly, It pencils from a passenger perspective, but also for a local, regional, and statewide willingness to invest in it, because obviously we'll have the people, we'll have the critical mass to move something forward.

So for some of these communities as you head north from here, are they kind of wanting to just sit back and Do you think that they're just going to wait to see what happens, Norm, because maybe they don't feel the urgency, they're not expecting as much growth along that corridor, maybe kind of that strip mall mentality works for them for the foreseeable future, or do you expect them to be a little bit more proactive and in the next few years try to adopt something similar to what we have?

Now this is just my assessment, but I think a number of those cities who are waiting to see if that Provo-Orem BRT would actually work, and if it was worth the pain and the challenge associated with making it happen. Now that it's there and it's active and it's being heavily used, I think now all of these North County cities are becoming more open and are embracing this idea of transit. And they're going from, yeah, we'll see how it goes, to what do we need to do to get something like that in Park?

And I can also bring up from the mayor's point of view, from these cities, they're all wanting the same thing. And they see it and want to move forward. Mayor Frost, American Fork, is pretty active on that. Pleasant Grove mayor is looking into that. The South County mayors are very desirous. I think you're seeing a lot— a lot of people are looking at it saying, this is successful, we can see where this is going. We want to do the same thing.

Completely agree. We needed a good example of BRT in the state of Utah, and that's what UVX is right now. And it's not only close by, it's within your own city.

If you look at—

Well, and Davis and Weber are using it as an example, wanting to do the same as well.

Yeah, if you looked at the bus routes before we constructed UVX to see where the highest ridership was, it was the UVX alignment For the bus, I think it was called the 830 or 850, and I can't remember exactly.

830.

And then the next highest route was the one on State Street going north.

850.

So this next project that you're planning is the next highest ridership bus route in Utah County today. So everything— it's intuitive, you know, is what I'm trying to explain. I think Jamie's right.

The land use is what drives And again, 40 to 50% of all new businesses happen along a mass transit line. And again, on the mass transit line, that's where your high density makes sense, and people like that.

Well, and that's what, that's what all the North County cities are realizing too, is every conversation they're having, whether it's Goterra or Adobe or Or Domo or wherever, they want access to transit. And their projects and their campuses don't necessarily work unless there is transit because the next generation of employees and demographics are wanting transit and multimodal options. They're not necessarily just wanting to be tied to a vehicle.

Agreed. You know, you look at Provo and Orem are somewhat filled out in terms of greenfield development. There's not a lot left, right? So now you're going up and you're going denser and you're going to use transit as your tool in your toolbox. Eagle Mountain, a different scenario. They're going to be building freeways. They're going to be building roadways first until they mature up. Then they're going to probably turn to transit. And so you have that natural evolution of progression in the transit. I think the key thing is to try to balance it financially, and that is a challenge because the rail stuff is so expensive and the BRT is much more affordable. The bus rapid transit is much more affordable. I think that's the challenge that UTA has is managing the debt load. Right now they have about a $2 billion debt load. The debt service at UTA is—

I couldn't even sleep at night if I had $2 billion worth of debt.

I think, you know, I think you can criticize it, but I think you can also look at it as a wise investment on the front end.

It has been.

Because I think it'll pay on the back end.

So their projects, just so, you know, it's on the table, their projects have been under budget and ahead of schedule. And they are looked upon nationwide as being excellent projects.

Agreed.

They are a national leader in how you build rail. And they have a front-end debt load that they're dealing with, But they're managing it great and they're doing fine with it. And the development opportunities around that investment are huge. So you're seeing that take place. Sorry, that was some editorial commentary.

No, no, you're great. You know, I think the biggest thing is the people in— or us in Utah that live here aren't used to transit. And so it's now a new experience and getting used to it. But when you look at 4 South there in Salt Lake City, I mean, that's just a beautiful line, or throughout Salt Lake. I mean, it's amazing what's happening there.

It's great, but there's a cautionary tale in transit nationwide that ridership is decreasing. It's declining in the state of Utah. We need to do more innovative work with transit like no-fare transit to make those numbers go up.

So when you do have no fare and transit doubles, And actually along the FrontRunner, if that was no fare, they said it would actually triple or quadruple if the trains and the rail were there.

Any other questions I can answer and discuss with the council?

Well, we just appreciate having you here. Appreciate your good work. You are a real mainstay of what's happening in Utah County, and your expertise is valued.

You know, it's not me, it's the staff, you know. Yes, you know how that is with any organization. We have some incredible people.

But you do an excellent job.

Thank you.

You've been there how long?

31 years.

Wow.

Just junior high.

Yeah. Sean on Friday has promised he's going to break out his crystal ball. Yeah, for your retreat and talk more kind of futuristic transportation.

I'm excited about that. That's what I was saying, we've used the past To project forward in years past, and now that model's kind of broken because the future is really wild. And so I'm going to bring you some challenging ideas on Friday up in Midway, I believe.

Yes.

How do you deal with drone corridors?

Exactly. And what does automation, what does artificial intelligence do?

Self-driving cars.

Yeah.

My father-in-law has memory problems, and so he's He's pretty much at home all the time, but he likes his McDonald's hamburger. His wife doesn't like to go out, so we order him a hamburger on Uber Eats, and an Uber driver picks up his quarter pounder cheese and delivers it to him. In the future, it will be—

Meals on wheels.

It'll be a drone. But that is creating 2 extra trips that maybe he would not have taken. He would not have used. The prediction is, is it won't save trips, artificial intelligence and automation, but it will actually increase trips on the roadway network. And the thesis is, I'll give you a preview for Friday, is, is that transit is the big winner in all of this, especially free fare transit. And so that's going to be the whole premise of my presentation on Friday.

Just think how McDonald's would do with free burgers.

A little different scenario.

Yeah, that is.

Well, thank you very much, Sean.

We appreciate it.

Appreciate what you do.

Thank you guys.

It appears that our meals are here, so why don't we go ahead and have a prayer? And Sam, could you give us a prayer?

Our Father in heaven, we're grateful for this opportunity to gather To discuss the needs of our community in this area. Guide us and direct us to know what we can do to best serve them. We're grateful for this meal that's been provided and ask a blessing upon it. And at this time, we ask a special blessing to be with Officer Schinner's family. We're grateful for his service and sacrifice, and help us to honor him in the way that we serve and the way that we treat our fellow And we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Amen.

We have a handful of salads for those that are keto, and then we're going to do mic stage. That's what it's all about, really.

I mean, I don't either, but I'll find out tomorrow. Tomorrow we have to choose the countywide GIS one. Well, I mean, we've got— we just got a guy that's kind of planning it, but I don't know who's over— Shane Fredham might be, but I'll find out. We'll dedicate some space so that they can kind of— I mean, obviously we have to deal with this. I would assume that what we're talking about more at that point, you know, that there's kind of a back bay area. area. That might be a good way to look at that. I mean, obviously that's probably something we're going to come up still with, but, you know, with some of the things, but that may be a good family group. But that's a good idea.

I'll come up with some knowledge and all.

Did you have a nice holiday?

Yeah, saw my 2 sons. One's in Vegas, one's in Mesa.

They came up here?

No, we went there.

That's funny.

All my wife wanted for Christmas was to play with her grandkids.

That's what we did.

I guess.

That's right.

You get a free dog.

That's right.

On the one down there?

No, it happened—

He was very doctoring her decision.

They wouldn't have time to set up.

Yeah, he was very doctoring.

Kind of felt like a David and Goliath almost. I mean, not really. So we have lunch ladies, so I still see them a lot that way.

We did.

Yeah, until December 3rd, my lunch. I actually got exchanged and I sold to a dear friend of mine who had lost a husband.

So my other 2 sons, they're both in spec ed. So one son has 3 weeks of maternity leave, half on, half not paid. My other son has 8 weeks of maternity leave, all paid.

I'm stating that, you know, sheltering renegotiated with me based on that.

Infection, and the next day they lost him. I was like, so what have I been doing? Not moved everything and do everything fast and not working.

For our last time, I haven't been in the company for quite 12 months yet.

It's all good.

So I didn't get any—

in that policy, I didn't follow the standard procedure.

How long did you—

it was a year, and I've been there for 5 years.

So, Bill, aren't you sure that you want to Stick around, you get free meals.

Just the last couple of weeks.

Yeah, yeah.

They're talking about you.

Oh.

Said you're smiling all the time.

Oh.

I don't care. Your mom wants to, so she deserves it. I get a stir spoon out, stir it up.

Did you mean to send that last text to Megan and I?

Well, if everybody's ready, why don't we go ahead and go over the agenda for this evening? Um, First thing, Tom, do you have a prayer and a pledge?

Nope, I only found out yesterday I had it.

We'll just take care of it.

By the way, does everyone know when they have prayer and pledge?

So it's on the agenda schedule.

Did you update it so it was?

Because I—

So, so the regular meeting invitation for every meeting throughout the year should have it in the body of the invitation, but I I'm happy to send it individually.

I've got my other 2 dates now.

Yeah, I tried to get it from my—

We'll just send it to the whole year.

I was out of town for the break.

I did see it. We'll get it taken care of.

Could you do it for the whole council for the whole year and send it out?

Yeah.

That way everybody can plan ahead.

One document for everybody. Perfect, thanks.

All right, uh, we'll have the approval of the minutes.

Thank you.

We'll go over the upcoming events. So again, on Saturday at 11 AM at the UCC Youth Center will be the funeral for Officer Schinner. The 11th and 12th, or however you want to classify it, will be the City of Orem City Council retreat. The 15th will be the North Point Solid Waste Ash and Breakfast. I'm not quite sure what they're serving.

How many are going to that?

I'm going to be out there. I'm going.

15?

Going.

Okay, 3 of us. Uh, the 24th is Bill Bell's retirement party from noon to 2:30. Uh, Bill, are you going to have some chairs? Uh, City of Orem on the 26th will hold our Centennial VIP reception, 11 AM at the Mountain View High School Commons area. And then at the rec center at noon, we'll have the Centennial kickoff ceremony. I think everybody's received an invitation and a listing on that.

Invitations went out last week.

Um, then on the 21st, we have the IMART Express Ribbon cutting at 5 PM. The 24th through the 26th, we have the Utah League of Cities and Towns mid-year conference in St. George. There is a new restaurant in town that opened up right next to Minky Couture called The Last Course, which is a dessert restaurant. If you haven't tried it, you should try it. Brent, have you been there?

Yeah.

You've got to go visit Minky for a burger then. Go next door.

The Last Course Dessert.

The Last Course Dessert.

Course, oh.

Yes.

The Last Course.

Course.

Course.

No, The Last Course. Anyway, so we have 2 appointments to boards and commissions. Both of these are a reappointment. Kenneth Bonney. Suzanne Stratton. Um, Char, anything to say? My understanding, they're doing a great job.

They're both doing excellent.

Okay, everybody okay with the reassignments? Okay. Uh, then on our consent items, we have a motion to reschedule the March 19th City Council meeting to March 12th.

So this is the result of the pillar of Obviously, we adopted— you adopted your meeting schedule, and then thereafter they scheduled the Pillar of the Valley on the 19th of March. And so this is simply shifting the meeting from the 19th to the 12th to accommodate the change for the Pillar of the Valley.

One thing I might mention, the 2 honorees are going to be Ray Beckham and his wife. Ray passed away last year. His wife, I think Jeanette, is still doing fine.

In good health.

And the other one is John Valentine, who is from Orem. Past Utah Senate President. Was a representative from Orem and a senator. And is the head of the Tax Commission for the state of Utah. And it's always been a great help and a strength to Orem and a longtime resident. So that'll be pretty exciting. Then we have a resolution authorizing the City of Orem to participate in the HUD public offering of the Section 108 Loan Guarantee Assistance Program. Steve, anything you want to say?

Yeah, this is—

we presented this to you at a work session.

This is basically—

there's an opportunity to lower the interest rates save about $52,000. So this is just a resolution authorizing us to move forward with, with that refinance. You can attend us here if you have any additional questions about it, but pretty straightforward.

Okay, under the scheduled items, our first one is a resolution approving and executing the signature page to the multi-jurisdictional automatic Etc., etc., etc.

That's the way I'll introduce it.

Yada, yada, yada.

For the Warren City Fire Department. Anything you'd like to say?

Basically, we're going to just go over very briefly the slides that we went over with you before. It'll be very high level. We feel like unless you have any questions regarding that agreement, it's going to be as we told you before. It's all been through our legal department. It doesn't contractually obligate us to participate if we are shorthanded or our apparatus— we don't have enough apparatus to send out. So basically, it's a A great opportunity for us to participate with our partners that are around us and know that we're gonna— when we have situations, we can have an automatic call for help and we can respond like we did today. We responded into Provo on a fire today, so it's a good, uh, good thing to have here.

How has the fire activity been lately? We've been active as far as I know we, uh, Councilmember Spencer and I went around and visited with the firemen over Christmas, and there was a lot of activity at the mall going on. You took a tour around the UU South neighborhood with Cam on Friday night? Yes, yeah, I'll bring that up.

Yeah, okay, thank you.

Um, so then next we have a resolution establishing the Parameters for authorizing issuance and sale by the City of Orem of not more than $24.5 million aggregate principal general obligation bonds. Jamie, do you want to mention anything?

We have Richard who's here and Mark Edminster, who's with Young Robertson Bernier. They'll both be here to speak to this particular item.

Do you want to mention anything at this point?

Unless you have some questions, I think we'll— the parameters resolution just sets out the maximums that can't be exceeded on the bond issue. Brad Patterson, the bond attorney, will be here as well. Any questions you have, we can answer them.

Okay.

Then any communication items from youth?

Uh, no, just, uh, I did— well, yes, I did forward to you a revised agenda for the retreat to accommodate obviously the funeral that's scheduled on Saturday. Unfortunately, the relationship with the contract that we had, we can't necessarily walk away from what we've scheduled and what we've already planned on, but Zermatt has been very gracious in accommodating our time change and such, and we've worked with all of our presenters in making that change as well. So that's in your inbox. Just take a look at it, and if you have any additional questions, please let me know.

Thank you all for doing that.

Great for them to be—

basically they just flip-flopped Saturday's lunch to Friday's lunch, but that was gracious of you.

So how many are going to be attending the funeral? You going?

You going?

I'll go. Mayor, Jamie just asked me as well, and I'll find out as far as parking where would be a good place, and I'll try and get you guys something that you could, as you're coming down from that, you can come down, park, have a decent spot, and we'll work that out. So I'll let you know through Jamie if that's all right. And that'll probably be later this week if we can figure that out.

Okay.

And if I may too, Mayor, obviously, is what happened over the weekend. I had, I had conversations with Gary and with Chief Giles about the incident. But I sat down this morning with them and had a more in-depth conversation. And frankly, I didn't realize, and I don't know if you mentioned That there were more officers, Orem officers on the scene than there were Provo officers on the scene. 6 to 2. Yeah, and so, you know, while, while we are obviously devastated by the loss of Officer Shimmers, we do have a department that took a significant role in what took place. took place on Saturday, and they too are grieving, and they too are dealing with much of the aftermath and trauma associated with what took place. And so that, that doesn't permeate into the media, that doesn't find its way into general conversation. So while obviously support needs to be there for the Provo City Police Department, I also just want to extend my thanks and extend our support as a city staff and a city family to the Orem Police Department for the role that they took in this, this terrible incident. And like Gary said on Sunday during that press conference, geographic borders of cities are not necessarily something that are discussed In these type of situations. And I just want to acknowledge the 6 officers and the many more who are now conducting the criminal investigation tied to the incident. And the level of engagement our police department has and our EMS is significant. So thank you for that. And I wanted to just acknowledge that because I didn't know that until Thank you.

And can I also mention, and I know that they're often the forgotten ones, the dispatchers. They are traumatized every bit as much when you're sitting there listening to this happen, having ownership of it, and then having to move on to the next call. That's probably just someone complaining about their water being turned off or whatever.

Or garbage.

You know, I mean, it's just, it's amazing the things that the dispatchers go through as well. And so if you keep them in your thoughts as well, you know, they obviously— this, this went out, the call of shots fired and the call of an officer down went out to our dispatch, not to Provo dispatch. They were on our channel, and, uh, they're certainly affected by it as well.

And, Mayor, if I may just take one additional stab at our consent agenda. Okay, so In the, in the spirit of efficiency, many elected bodies will address a lot of council items by way of consent, a consent agenda. I was actually briefly watching the Utah County Commission meeting this morning, and while I don't want to necessarily represent them as the model of efficiency, they actually do do a very good job of managing that consent agenda where they place general routine items on the agenda, things like, for example, minutes or specific issues tied to, like, the cancellation or shifting of a meeting. In a meeting like this, I've explained to you the need to shift. In a formal meeting, is it really necessary to take a vote on that shift in the meeting, or could we take that vote part and parcel of a series of other standard or routine items that are part of an agenda? What I would like to represent and suggest to you is I think there is a way for us to not necessarily accelerate but improve the efficiency of our meetings By taking greater advantage of the consent calendar. The practice would be we would place items on a consent agenda. You would just be required to take one vote to approve all of those consent items. If there was a particular item that you were concerned about and didn't want to approve it as part of a consent agenda, it could be removed. From the consent agenda itself and placed as part of a decision that you would have to make outside of that consent agenda. And in fact, we could even have somebody read in the items that are scheduled for consent as part of any meeting. So, you know, I just think that there is time often— obviously your time is valuable. valuable, and there are votes and motions that are made that don't necessarily require a lot of the mechanics and could be just taken by way of consent.

I would like to consent to that. So by, by way of information, if anybody's looked at what the County Commission agenda looks like, it's basically 30 pages of, can you— can the sheriff purchase a Another rifle, and the Public Works purchased another shovel. And they just— everything that's done is done through the County Commission meetings. So they actually go and build an agenda, is how they call it, at the beginning of the meeting and put all of these consent items on that are not to be discussed or need to be discussed. Anyway, it's interesting to watch how they do it.

So for example, tonight We could place, for example, the minutes on the consent agenda, as well as the motion to reschedule the meeting, as well as the authorization to, to essentially participate in the refinance of the Section 108 loan. Those are all things that, one, either you've had an opportunity to review, i.e., the minutes, or we've had an opportunity to discuss in advance of the motion. for consent. I told you about the need to reschedule. Uh, Kenna is here to talk about the Section 108 loan. We had a conversation about that last meeting. Is it something— are each one of those things something we need to address individually by motion and vote?

And let's say there were in fact other items on the consent, but I wanted to emphasize to the public, so I'd say, Steve, how much will we be saving on bond interest and On that, we could do that before we do the consent vote.

Or you could say— Write it into the— You could say, uh, one, we could write it into the whatever detail we're including in the consent agenda. Or you can say, hey, I've noticed this, this bond issue is in the consent agenda. I'd like to remove it from the consent agenda and make it part of the regular discussion.

If I wanted to emphasize that point.

Correct.

Thank you.

One of the other things we— I think one of the other things that's timely now is before, until just a few months ago, we weren't recording these meetings. So unless the public was here, they never had the chance to hear it. Now it's been recorded.

Yep.

For example, I was talking to Kenna today and I said, you know, one thing we could have done that we didn't do, I don't think it matters today, but in the agenda item we could have said item presented during work session this date, here's the link.

So anybody that would grab the agenda would say, oh, if I want to watch the presentation when they talked about it, I can just click on this link.

So not to, not to beat up on this, uh, let's say for example Chief Gurney, uh, we've had an opportunity to discuss this interlocal agreement, this mutual aid agreement. You've had a presentation on it where they've just told you this is what it's going to be, this is how it's going to work, these are the outcomes. Tonight what Chief Gurney is going to do He and Chief Earle are going to come in and they're essentially going to give you the same presentation that you've already received, probably remove a few slides. And a number of you are going to say, isn't there a way we can kind of accelerate this? Because this is all information we already know. The answer is yes. Yeah, the answer is yes, there's a way to accelerate it, and that is if If nobody has any concerns with this particular relationship and this agreement, we can place it on the consent agenda and you can approve it, and Scott doesn't have to come up and give his presentation.

I'm all in favor of that.

Can we do that now? Can we do that now? Can we do that this evening?

No, because it's been not scheduled.

I think it has to be, you know, but that's something that we can consider.

short his presentation.

You can do whatever you want within reason of the 7 minutes.

Damn it, Scott.

One slide.

That's what I heard.

Okay.

But I mean, that's what I'm trying to do is I'm suggesting to you that there are efficiencies that we can build into the agenda and into your meetings so that you don't kind of feel like, wait, I just heard this presentation last council meeting. Now I gotta hear it.

So how many meetings until we recoup the time that we've lost discussing? I think it's a no-brainer.

Hours. Can I comment on— so, so one of the, one of the challenges or worries that we've had in the past has been the perception that the decision is already made when City Council passes, that it's been discussed in previous meetings, the work in open session and the decisions made. And so going and speaking at city council doesn't matter because we're here.

But no one speaks about the minutes being approved.

But I think, but typically that's, that's public hearings that they're discussing, not so much a consent item.

And I think up until recently, recent months, when we added the cameras to our working meetings, a citizen could make that representation and say, well, I've never seen you Well, now we can say, well, yeah, we did talk about it in the work session. We had a 30-minute presentation on it, and you can view the entire presentation and the PowerPoint slides and everything tied to it so that they can see that there's that, that process that we went through before it found its way to the consent agenda. I think we— oh no, so in that then, because the aspect is is, uh, people that have an interest being able to be available and accessible as part of the conversation and the discussion. Do we need to rethink where we have these meetings then? We're getting people now saying they have to come to the work session in order to do it because once it gets to the city council, it's just an up and down vote and there's no discussion.

Well, there's—

I mean, coming back to that, Jamie, a couple things.

One is some cities will say not only could a council say something's off the consent agenda.

A citizen could say, hey, there's something on here that's important to me, I want that off the consent agenda too.

So there's that opportunity.

Clearly there's certain items too, like public hearings, that we could not place on the consent agenda. And I don't think you would see us just for practice— we wouldn't place something on a consent agenda that we know is going to be controversial. We would— again, these are the things that we don't anticipate having any controversy on. Somebody could still pull it if they wanted to, But we would do you the service to not try to make it look like we're putting something controversial to the—

And it only takes one of us to move it to the— in other words, we wouldn't have to get a majority vote to move it to the regular agenda.

Would we need a majority vote, Greg, to take it off the consent?

Usually you'd have somebody make a motion to take it off the consent calendar and put it on the scheduled calendar. And then so the motion would require a second and a vote.

If we indicated prior to the meeting Like, let's say we got the agenda on Friday and there was an item that I wanted to discuss. Would we still have to have that, that motion in the meeting Tuesday night with the public?

You would, because it was noticed, right?

Once we send it out, the agenda, we pretty much are stuck with that agenda.

So then does it work then for a citizen to ask for it to be removed?

I think if the citizen asks, the citizen And the council would still have to make things up.

Okay.

But again, I think most of the items that the citizens are concerned about are going to be public hearings and not—

Another example is Gary and his, uh, school resource officer. We had a conversation, we went through a process, we approved it. A few weeks later, the school district came back and said, well, we forgot to add this language. Well, then Gary has to go through the whole same process again, all to essentially address a ticky-tack issue that frankly I think could have been addressed by way of a consent agenda. And I think if it would be helpful, we could very easily in our consent item, for example with the 108, the last line could have said presentation given on this date, here's the link, and that's in the agenda to anybody that gets it.

One question I do have from a A Granicus standpoint, when somebody presents a slide deck in— I guess this is mainly for our recorder and clerk and things. So if we have somebody present a slide deck, are we linking to the actual slide deck on there, or is it just what was actually displayed on the screen that appears in the video?

It is typically what is displayed on the screen. Unless that presenter has added it after the fact to Granicus, we can do that. Sometimes we have outside agencies, like when Sean Seeger was here, I don't have his presentation unless he provides it to me. But we do have the video of him going through it and discussing it, so people are able to watch the clip that has not only what's happening on the screen, but you can hear his voice Talking about it, but it is not a separate thing, but we can do that.

I, I would like to make that a higher priority as far as, you know, whatever slides are presented or they have something like a map on the screen or something. I'd like to have the actual— instead of having to search through that spot in the video and then freeze it, and then it'd be nice to just have that document linked.

Yeah, and we have done that a lot in the past.

We—

I used to send a number of emails to follow up asking for those kinds of things. We can do that certainly.

Okay, um, moving on then. We do— are going to be adjourned to a closed meeting. A motion for, uh, to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation. Are we doing that here or in 107?

Yes, and the motion should include the fact that it will be in Room 107.

Right. Okay, um, and that's it for our agenda. I did want to bring up, uh, one item. This last Friday we had Dave Bussath with SWANA request that I and Cam Martin of UVU travel with him at 10:30 in the evening to go visit about 10 neighborhoods to see what neighborhoods or houses were possibly in violation of illegal apartments or multiple families living in a home that are not supposed to be, drug house, etc. Where this came about was Dave came to visit me about 2 months ago And said, I have 2 concerns. One, he says, I have a concern that I would like to have a direct line into 311 that I could report somebody who's parking that should not be parking on the street, or too many students in a house, etc., etc. And I explained to Dave, I said, well, first of all, you can call in anytime, 24 hours a day. If somebody's there, they will answer. If not, you can leave a recording. Either way, it will be taken over and dealt with by NPU and looked at and move accordingly. You need to do it online. Yes, do it online.

He goes to the— he'd go to warrentonpolice.org and just click on the neighborhood preservation link. It'll have a link to a form that he can just fill out and it'll go right to them. Okay.

So his next comment was that there are many, many, many homes that are— have illegal accessory apartments that they're concerned about in Southwest Orem, particularly in regards to students. My comment was, get me 13 homes. I'd be happy to go out and look at them with you, and I'd be happy if it looks like there's something to look at, pass it on. To NPU and go accordingly. So he reached out to about 5 different members of SWANA, and then they gave him a list of about 30 homes. And I said, well, I'm not interested in 30, but give me 10 and I'll be happy to go around. And Cam Martin said, I would like to be part of that. So the 3 of us, 10:30 at night, went and drove the streets of Orem.

That's right.

We found what I think is probably one drug home. We found several homes that I think have multiple families living in the home, not necessarily students. And then we found some homes that could be multiple students, but as Dave pointed out, having a house with 6 cars in front doesn't mean anything. We have a council member with 10 cars in front of him. So consequently— He's unloading some of them onto the mayor. He is. But anyway, the reality is some of these might be just fine and some of them might be an issue. So I took down 10 addresses. I'm going to give them to Jamie and pass it on to the chief and let you look at it and determine what your thoughts are.

Dave was appreciative of you going with him, by the way.

Yes. Monday or something.

Well, we had a good conversation, and, uh, you know, afterwards the 3 of us sat in the car and talked for a while. And, and both Cam and I said to Dave, said, what, you know, where are your concerns? What's your biggest concern? What are you worried about? And he said, to be honest with you, it's fear. He said, I'm fearful that Lincoln Junior High's, uh, or Lake Ridge Junior High's going to be taken over by UVU. I'm fearful that the east side of 400 West is going to be taken over by UVU. I'm fearful of these other things. And I said, well, to me the best way to deal with fear is through education and to actually have a good discussion. So we sat and talked and Cameron said, look, my opinion is I have— we are not interested in what you're talking about. I said, Now, what was also interesting is that one of the gentlemen who was the main financier of the effort on the referendum actually is an individual who has now approached UVU to purchase his home. So the very thing he was against is the very thing he's doing. And no names need to be mentioned, but— I think we all know who you're talking about. But that was an interesting point.

What his initials are?

No, I won't mention any initials or anything like that. Not mentioning anything. So anyway, the 3 of us agreed to meet in 6 weeks and have another discussion. Certainly any of you who want to join us, you're welcome to do so. But I thought the conversation was good. And Dave seemed to be a little more relaxed. And we talked about the Ico Steel project. And I've been pretty forward as far as my feelings go. I brought that up again. You know, he asked Cameron what his thoughts were. Cameron said, I think it's a pretty uphill battle. And Cameron only speaks for himself, and I only speak for myself. I'm not speaking for anybody else on the council or staff. But anyway, so he wanted to discuss all these areas, so we did. And I thought it was really good. It turned out to be a nice, calm, relaxed, good meeting.

Were those 10 homes south of Bay South?

So 4 of those— 5 of those homes were in his ward. Uh, 3 of those homes are south towards, uh, south of Walmart, and a couple of the homes were actually to the east.

One was yours, bro.

So when do you want to go north?

Anytime, be happy to do it. If you want to take a knife at 10:30 at night, we'll go out as well.

Well, Mayor, if you wouldn't mind just me talking about it. I mean, when I was in neighborhood preservation back in 2002, so we're talking, you know, 16 years ago, this was the same discussion we had back then. So we had people that were fearful of UVU. They had a lot of houses that, that did have multi, you know, multiple families, a lot of people that were renting out basements. And in fact, a lot of— I actually had people that would come in with their ward, their LDS ward list, and show me where there were 2 different family names on that list. They'd circle them, highlight them. And so we would go out and then start dealing with them, and then we would have somebody else come say, oh no, no, we love that person. We don't want them to move. So I brought that up with Dave.

I said, Dave, you realize that some of these people, one of them might be a widow and this is her only income, and you might be upsetting a really tough situation. And he said, yeah, he says, I know. I don't know how to look at that. So I understand.

Well, and I just want to point out, because we'll look at all 30 of them. We have a part-timer that we're just hiring right now, which, by the way—

I'll give you all 30.

By the way, isn't— I mean, that's not an actual position that we've asked for. We're kind of jumping the gun, and I'm trying to cover this so that we don't have the problems, but I'd be asking for that position coming up. But we have a part-timer coming in that could send out the letters and so forth to all 30 of the homes if we want, because we want to take care of them. And so if they have all those addresses, have them bring them in, get us a list. We can send out the information saying, look, this is what This is what is legal, this is what is illegal. That way when we do go back, we just give them a civil citation, go from there, and we're ready to move forward. So, we're more than happy to take care of that. What happens, I think, a lot of times is they're willing to give you the 30 names, but they haven't ever called us with them. And so, we have to do the survey.

So, they're looking at a conduit. You know, this was my request, because he kept putting this out there. We've got this issue, we've got this issue. Then I said, all right, show me the issue that you have, show me specifics, let's take a look, and then we'll have our NPU people take a look and see if there's really something there or not. To be honest with you, I imagine that a third of what he showed me are not problems at all. And anyway.

Yes, and I understand. But we're more than happy to deal with any of them that they bring to us.

I appreciate that.

Anyway, if nothing else, let's go ahead and adjourn and move over to the council chamber.

All right, can you arrange us a little bit?

Oh yeah, where do I go? Okay, I'm next to Sam and Dave, it looks like.

You got moved.

That's right, you're— that's right, you got to change that, huh? Yeah. You're coming here, huh? Go Dave, go Dave, go Dave, go Dave.

I think that's—

this one's cold.

How are you?

Hi.

These are the invitations for the 100-year centennial VIPs.

Cool.

Oh yeah, sassy, you're right. In there.

I talked to Gary.

Okay.

All right.

For you.

So will he let me know?

Okay.

All right.

I think that would be— So we would like to call this meeting to order for our city council meeting this evening, and we would like to begin by having a prayer or a thought by Pete Wolfley and the Pledge of Allegiance by Steve Downs.

This is a thought from President Dwight D. Eisenhower. There is nothing wrong with America that faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and energy of our citizens cannot Thank you.

The audience, please rise.

Repeat after me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. We would like to approve the minutes of the City Council meeting of December 11th, 2018, and the minutes of the special City Council meeting December 13th, 2018. Is there a motion to do so?

So moved.

Okay, is there a second?

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

We would like to go over the upcoming events. As many of you know, we had a tragic shooting in our community over the weekend, and Officer Schinner of Provo was killed. His funeral is being held January 12th at the UCCU Center at UVU. At 11:00 a.m. We want to make sure that everyone who would like to attend can do so. On January 11th and 12th, we have the City Council retreat at the city— for the City of Orem at the Zermatt Hotel in Midway. On January 15th, we have the Hash and Trash breakfast for the North Point Solid Waste Special Service District at Noah's in Linden. On January 24th, we have the City of Orem Development Services retirement of Bill Bell, his open house from noon to 2:30 here in these chambers. We're sorry to announce that, but we're excited for Bill. So, uh, 26th, on the City of Orem will hold their— will hold our centennial VIP reception, 11 AM, uh, for the— at the Mountain View High School Commons area, and the kickoff ceremony will be at noon at the Orem Rec Center. And that is to help celebrate our 100th year anniversary. Hard to believe. February 21st, we have the IMART Express ribbon cutting at 5 PM at 364 East University Parkway in Orem. And on April 24th through the 26th, we have the Utah League of Cities and Towns mid-year conference at the Dixie Center in St. George. As far as appointments to boards and commissions, we have a reappointment of Kenneth Bonney and Suzanne Stratton to the Library Advisory Board, and I would move that we make those appointments. Is there a second?

Second.

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Okay. We have personal appearance time, and I'm not aware of personal appearances at this time, so we will move forward to our consent items. These have been discussed in our previous work session. The first one is a motion to reschedule the March 19th, 2019 City Council meeting to March 12th, 2019, so that there is not a conflict with the Pillar of the Valley Chamber of Commerce Commerce ceremony. Would someone like to make that motion?

So moved.

Okay.

Is there a second?

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? We have a resolution under a consent item authorizing the City of Orem to participate in the HUD public offering as part of the Section 108 Loan Guarantee Assistance Program to refinance the existing note or other obligation in the original principal amount of $1.32 million for the purpose of economic development. Current balance is $616,000. I understand that this will save us $52,000 with a better interest rate. Is there a motion to approve?

So moved.

Okay, is there a second?

Second.

Okay, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Chair?

Okay, yes.

Sorry to interrupt the consent calendar, but Because that's a resolution, we do need a roll call vote.

Okay. All right, so should that be under our regular, uh, consent agenda where it takes a roll call vote?

No, we can do that under the consent calendar still.

Okay, so procedurally, just for the sake of discussion and education, we could have taken one vote for the consent A calendar, and because there was a resolution included with it, it would need to be a roll call vote.

Correct.

So there's no—

there's no need to approve every single one, but on a consent calendar, if there's 6 items, you can approve all 6 with one vote.

But on a resolution, typically I would see that under a scheduled item rather than a consent item. I don't know.

Not necessarily.

Where we're taking an individual vote.

If you did have a resolution on a consent calendar, it would just require you to take a roll call vote rather than just a voice vote, a simple voice vote.

It could go either way, I think. Okay, so, uh, I would accept a motion for the resolution.

Can I ask a question?

Sure.

With that, uh, Steve, I think you were the one who was driving this.

Were—

was this not available earlier when interest rates— or was there a minimum time we had to hold the note before we could refinance it?

HUD initiates it. This is the first time.

Thank you. So with that clarification, I make a motion that we— do I have to say the whole thing?

No.

Okay, that we approve.

Um, and is there a second?

Second.

Okay, we'll start with Councilmember McDonald.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay, the resolution passes. Okay, under our scheduled items, the first one is a resolution approving and executing the signature page to the multi-jurisdictional automatic aid mutual aid fire training emergency medical and other services agreement, which is an interlocal agreement outlining, outlining the rights and responsibilities for mutual aid and other related services between the Orem Fire Department and other fire and emergency medical service providers throughout the state of Utah. And we have our Fire Chief Scott Gurney here and Jason Earl, Deputy Chief, to conduct this discussion.

Mayor Brunst, members of the City Council, it's a pleasure for us to be here to review with you the items that we covered in a previous work session regarding this resolution. We're here seeking a resolution in in your authorization to execute this multi-jurisdictional mutual aid agreement, automatic aid agreement. As previously noted, this has gone through our legal department. It's gone through every other entity that's a part of this agreement's legal department, and we feel very strongly that this is going to be a beneficial component in our ability to provide services in large disaster emergencies. Also, we wanted to make sure that you are aware that by entering this, this does not contractually obligate us to respond if we are ourselves understaffed or our equipment is not available to respond. So in those situations, we're not obligated to to proceed. I've invited Chief Earle to just briefly go over the slides that we've talked about previously. If any time during this you have a question, please feel free to ask it, and we'll be more than happy to address any issues that you may have.

Okay, thank you, Chief. So as previously discussed, we're looking for a resolution request for, for this mutual aid agreement. And just to reemphasize that it is to meet the minimum standards for the NFPA 1710 for our staffing standards for response. And so to review those, we put up here for the different occupancy types what those minimum standards require. I'm not going to go through everything on the matrix, but just to the bottom line in the yellow bar, that represents what the minimum number of personnel need to have on this incident type. In this case, it's a single-family dwelling. 2,000 square foot or less for a 2-story house without a basement and no exposures, exposures meaning other structures within 50 feet of that main structure. And so I've outlined it in number of personnel as well as apparatus in the orange bar at the bottom as far as what we require. So, and to emphasize, this is just for an initial alarm assignment. So this is why it's important to have an agreement with our neighboring agencies. Right now for this type of dwelling, we have the resources. in our city with the 4 fire stations to meet this minimum standard. But if we advance it— and then these are pictures for the typical single-family dwelling would meet that criteria in NFPA. But if we advance to a strip mall type of shopping center, as indicated on this slide, we currently do not meet the initial alarm assignment. So we would ask for assistance from neighboring communities to respond in. Thank you. Initial alarm to meet those staffing responsibilities as we go there. So for strip mall, this is the one on 200 West and Center Street approximately. This is a typical strip mall open shopping center. Typically these are classified as horizontal high-rises, so it's just a lot of square footage to meet the responsibilities and the demands of this incident type should this catch on fire or anything. Other that would happen within that. For this one, this is a garden-style apartment. It's the same as the strip mall. It's just a number of people and number of hazard types that we would have in a structure like this, and the demands to meet that would be the same number of people. This is the Aston on 12— excuse me, 800 East. As we're looking at it, the garden-style criteria meets that they've got a courtyard in the center and then, of course, living quarters all the way around it. And so the number of people to meet the demands of getting equipment and personnel to the location of where the incident may be located. Initial full alarm assignment, you can see it's substantially more people for the initial response, will be 42. Just to put it in perspective, we have 2 ladder trucks and 2 engines frontline available in our city, where this one requires 4 ladders on initial response, 8 engines, 3 ambulances, 2 air supply utility type of apparatus, 3 battalion chiefs and a deputy chief on the initial response to be able to manage an incident of this type. So this agreement, you can see the advantages for not only our community but the communities around us to be able to meet that minimum standard.

And what you're reading to us on the matrix is a standard that's put out nationally, I believe.

Yes, sir. This is the NFPA 1710. standard for staffing requirements for career fire departments.

Okay.

And it's the minimum initial response recommendations for what we need to safely operate at a structure like this. This is Midtown, and currently it meets that standard. According to NFPA, a high-rise is anything occupied space of 75 feet or higher, and currently this is 9 stories, which Just on average, 10 feet is considered a residential story. Occupancy would be 90 feet of occupied space, so it's over that. So this would be considered or meet that criteria.

Councilmember Lorraine has a question.

So typically, how many firefighters are on duty at any one given time?

Our minimum staffing is 17, and so it ranges anywhere from 17 if we're full-staffed, or 21. people in our city, and that includes our fire station in Lynden.

So basically any, any single home you'd have to call other agencies, it sounds like?

Not for initial response, but if we, if we go over the initial response, we'll have to require— ask for another city to assist. Okay, thank you. So not only does it include fires, but it also includes medical responses for mass casualty. NFPA 3000 is a new standard for Actually was implemented in 2018, but it's official for 2019. It's the response with our active assailant, active shooter style events for schools, theaters, multi-occupancy, that sort of thing.

A question. So we participate with each other within Utah County, but if we had a mass casualty event and it was beyond what we could supply, we have Agreements and so forth in place with the other people, Salt Lake County Unified Fire, etc.?

Currently we have aid agreements locally in Utah County. This is going to establish to where we have it in Salt Lake County as well. Okay, they'll be responding to us and vice versa.

So that's the real advantage of this agreement?

Yeah, and for this one in particular, Again, to put it in perspective, the Las Vegas incident, they had 40 ambulances on standby. And that's, to me, the criteria of 2 people per ambulance, 2 patients per ambulance, roughly. So for this one, for small mass casualties, what's classified under the NFPA standard, they classify by patients and not by occupancy type or size. So for a maximum of 15 patients, we would need 5 engines, 5 ambulances, 1 ladder, and 2 battalion chiefs.

Okay.

So these are consensus standards. We feel strongly for this mutual aid agreement for the following reasons and the considerations for not only for the responders' health and safety, obviously for the safety of, you know, safety in numbers, if you will, and having people fill those responsibilities on scene, but it also serves the community Helps the customer. It is a national standard for unit staffing, and it's not just arbitrary numbers that are thrown out there. It's based on past history, case studies, past incidents of what we could operate effectively with the number of people that we need on incident.

Okay.

That's any— any questions?

Any other questions or comments from the council? Councilmember Lentz?

So I think I saw 17 different departments or agencies that were involved with this. Do we anticipate others joining in in the foreseeable future as well?

Yeah, absolutely. There's, there's some that are reviewing this right now, Provo being one of those, and there's others that are looking into this. Obviously, there's, there's a big push to go statewide and interstate mutual aid type of things. But yeah, for this type of agreement, yeah, there are other departments that are looking to get involved.

And so if another community, let's say Provo, for example, wanted to join in, do you have to come back to us to get another resolution like this approved, or is it just a matter of—

I can send them.

Okay.

You know all about that, don't you?

Yeah.

But it is something that would come back. In other words, we would essentially need to agree to let them in, or would that just kind of be an automatic—

I think it'd probably be an automatic type thing unless— I would think we're part the agreement.

If somebody joined, they're joining the agreement we're already in.

Yeah, I would think this will go— once this is signed, this will go back to the originators. They'll, they'll look at it, and then they'll— we'll be in, in that agreement. So I don't know if— unless you would like us to bring it back to you every time a city comes, comes in.

That's not what I'm asking for.

I don't think— I don't think it's necessary.

Unified Fire Authority are the primary holders of this agreement, and So they're kind of the drivers of it. So those entities, when we look for approval, it goes to them and then they put them all in.

So just in closing, as you can see, this is going to be a great benefit to our community. And we can, in turn, help other communities as things come up. It helps us in our ISO rating because we have automatic dispatching for certain situations like Chief Earle has described. We know that on certain calls we have a stack of responses and it automatically gets called. And if the incident commander says, I need another alarm, it doesn't have to— the dispatcher doesn't— they're busy enough as it is. They don't have to go, well, who do you want? It's a— the second stack is ready to go and it just keeps on going. And if one of them says, hey, I don't have enough people, I can't send anything, There's a backup to the backup to the backup.

So a question— I understand that part of it, but financially, if in this agreement you end up with a very needy city who ends up using our resources a lot and we don't need their resources very much, are there any financial evening out of expenses, or that's not really what we're talking about?

Can I speak to that?

Yes, sure.

So the agreement only applies to these incident types. It's not Typically not for routine response during the day. So these incident types is what those staffing would be set up for. And as Chief mentioned, it takes the guesswork out.

No, no, I understand what it's doing, but financially, after the event, you don't go back and say, well, during this calendar year we spent this much money, and I know that you only spent this much money.

That would not be a part of No.

OK. I just wanted to know that. Any other comments or questions? OK. Well, I would like—

Sorry, Mayor. Just one clarification on that. But with this, those standards that are set, are those community by community? In other words, could we actually encounter a really needy city like that if there are standards set that they have to meet as a minimum?

The 1710 standards, it's an NFPA standard. It's a national standard that we're going by, and it's not going to be adjusted for one specific type of community over another, a needy versus a non-needy. It's a standard. And this is what NFPA 1710 dictates is what they expect all fire— all full-time—

Career.

Career departments to come to an incident, specific incident, with those amounts of resources on initial response.

So that essentially should help mitigate— I think it's a fair question to ask, but I think it would kind of be protected in that sense.

And if at any time you as a governing body decide that you feel like that this is not working out for our community, there's no problem in opting out. There's no penalty. There's no any problem with it.

Okay, with that said, then I would like to make a motion to approve a resolution approving a multi-jurisdictional mutual aid— the multi-jurisdictional mutual aid agreement as outlined. Is there a second?

Second.

Okay, we'll start with Councilmember McDonald.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay, the resolution passes. We'd like to move on to item 11.2, which is a resolution— Thank you, Chief, both of you. Establishing the parameters for authorizing the issuance and sale by the City of Orem of not more than $24.5 million aggregate principal amount of its General Obligation Bonds Series 2019 to pay all or a portion of the costs of acquiring, constructing, furnishing, and equipping— equipping renovations, additions, and improvements to the city's family fitness center, a community library hall, at the City Center campus and to pay expenses reasonably incurred in connection with the authorization and issuance of the bonds. And our presenter is Richard Manning. Thank you, Mayor Kerr. And you have some people with you.

Yes, I'm joined with Mark Edminster of Lewis Young and Brad Patterson of Gilmore Bell. Mark is with our financial advisor and Brad with the bond counsel. He is responsible for that long Preamble. He promised—

We'll talk to him after.

He promised me it would read like a slick detective novel. I don't read those very much, so I don't— I can't vouch if it really did or not. Tonight's purpose is to establish the playing field, if you will, of how this bond can be issued and what, what is considered out of bounds and what's in bounds, so that going forward those who are involved know when we're doing your will or not. So it starts out, one of the first parameters is this cannot exceed $24.5 million in total principal that's issued. The second one is that it can't exceed 5.5% annual interest rate. So those are the biggest parameters that as long as anything is less than 24.5 or up to, and 5.5 or less, which, you know, you presume you will. I've never seen a bond issue we've done this that's approached what the maximums were. But this says, hey, if you can't get a deal better than this, there's no deal. Essentially what it says. And it goes for a maximum of 30 years. Now, one of the other big issues Is it— right now, you're establishing the terms of what it can be issued under. The next one is that when it gets down to the day that everything's been put together, people have said, I will buy year 2047. Someone else says, I'll buy year 2028. And all the interest rates are agreed upon. A deal needs to be sealed fairly quickly. And so what this resolution will do is delegate out to either the mayor, mayor pro tem, city manager, or myself to say, all right, everything fits what we've— you know, what this parameters resolution says it should. Go ahead and we'll seal the deal. So it can be done quickly because this will involve, I don't know, easily dozens, but maybe much more than that of different parties who are involved in buying portions of this.

Before you leave that slide, if I may—

Sure, go ahead.

You just said there were 4 from the city because you included the mayor pro tem.

Mayor pro tem— mayor and mayor pro tem are considered the same. You know, if you can't get one, you get the other.

Okay, but it has to be the city manager. It can't be an assistant.

That's correct.

Okay, that's all I wanted to confirm because you'd made 4 names and this only said So thanks for that clarification.

And at the end of the day, once this, this deal is put in place, can we do what we thought we, you know, what we set out to do? So when it all is said and done, here it is: $24.5 million, 5.5%, 30-year maximum, and delegates the decision-making authority so that these things can be built.

A question: 30-year maximum term. We could go for a 20-year term, a 15-year term.

Suppose you could, but we probably couldn't meet the intent.

No, I understand that.

That was sold by doing it longer.

Right. I understand that. I'm just saying—

But we can't go 35.

Okay, I'm with you.

Okay.

Any questions? All the hard stuff, Mark or Brad will answer.

So Knowing that the 5.5% is the maximum, and that's for each individual bond. In other words, this isn't necessarily going to be one loan. It's going to be a composite of several.

Each priority can exceed 5.5%.

Right. Do you have any sense of what you expect the average rate to be when all said and done, knowing that there's a lot of moving parts and things like that, where you expect it to be?

Yes.

Currently, we're working— we're using a model that has the what is called a coupon rate, ranging from 3% to a maximum of 5%.

And the effective rate, since you mentioned the coupon rate, would it be the same?

No, no. The coupon rate is simply the amount on which the interest payment on each bond is calculated. The final yield on the bonds will be determined at the bond sale, and we're projecting, if I remember my last set of numbers, It was about 3.5%, maybe a little less than that.

So this gives us plenty of cushion to have some change. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

So just out of curiosity, how are bond sales doing? Doing— I mean, I would think general obligation city bonds are as good as they get, but market overall, things trending a little Upward?

It has—

oh, go ahead, Brad.

You were about to say something.

I was going to tell you, based upon some discussions— I'm not the financial guy, I'm the legal guy— but based upon some discussions I've had with some bankers today and also reading the articles in our local trade magazine, it's actually a seller's market right now. There's a real strong demand out there for municipal bonds.

So, okay.

And general obligation bonds as as you suggest, are really sort of the gold standard of the industry.

Yes, it's as good as it gets. So, okay, any other comments or questions from the council? Councilor Morlant.

Sorry, one more. As far as 5, 10 years down the road, let's say interest rates are lower than where they are today, what options do we have as far as refinancing? I know we've run into some situations before where we had You know, constraints on when we were allowed to refinance and things like that. Can you speak to those options that we might have in the future?

One of the, the features of this particular bond is that we'll have the ability to optionally recall those bonds. Generally, that call feature is about 10 years. We possibly could push— might get 9. And so the bonds won't be able to be optionally called until then. The tax reform act that was adopted at the end of last— actually in 2017 and went into effect in 2018 took away one of the tools of public finance professionals in that we could have an advance refunding. I think that's one of the things you're talking about where we could escrow monies, and advance refundings were taken away in the tax act. And so we can no longer do advance refundings on a tax-exempt basis. We could possibly do it on a taxable basis, but then again, once we talked— at that point, time, there's a very strong possibility that the rates just aren't going to square up.

Thank you. So having lived through the '70s, 3.5% interest rate is unbelievable. So I think we're very lucky to be able to finance a general obligation bond in that kind of category.

I'm sorry, we can't throw your mortgages in.

Yes. Really? All right, so anyone like to make a motion? If not, I will, but—

I'll second it.

I move that this City Council by resolution adopt a parameters resolution authorizing the issue and sale of the City of Orem General Obligation Bonds Series 2019 of not more than $20,500,000 aggregate principal amount—

Excuse me, $24 million.

$24,500,000. What'd I say?

Anyway, that's what I meant.

$24,500,000 aggregate principal amount and delegate certain officers the authority to select the underwriter, approve the principal amount, interest rates, terms, maturity, etc., and execute the final terms.

Is there a second?

Second.

Okay, we'll start with Councilmember Lentz.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay, the resolution passes. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it, Richard.

Thank you.

Jamie, do you have any communication items? Okay. We will then go ahead, and I would move that we adjourn to a closed meeting for the purpose of discussing pending or reasonably imminent litigation pursuant to Utah Code Section 52-4-205 in Room 107.

Second.

Okay. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

We are adjourned. Tom, you're pretty fast.

As soon as you said 1:07, I knew it was safe.

No, that's fine.

Do you want this? Your happy holidays.

Nope, I got it sort of late.