City Council · 2019-11-19

I'll mind my words.

There you go.

Plug it in.

Oh, there it goes.

We got 30 seconds.

My clock says 2:30, which matters.

They can't start before the clock hits All right, so we'd like to welcome everyone out to our City Council work session today. We're going to begin with a new employee introduction, and that will be done by Ryan Clark and Chief Gurney. And Ryan, if you'd like to—

Yeah, Mayor, right behind you is Jake Apartheid. You want to stand up, Jake?

Sure.

Jake's been with us about 2 weeks. Yeah, he graduates from BYU soon. He's a new associate planner. He'll be Right on the front lines interacting with developers, with anyone coming in for questions, and helping process applications. So I'll let Jake tell a little bit about himself.

Did you make him swear he'll stay a year or 2?

Did you like commit him?

Well, that's why we hired him before he could graduate. We've got our nails into him now.

So, great.

I'm Jake.

I am from Spanish Fork.

I have a lot of family here in the Orem area.

I'm very happy to be here.

I'm about to graduate from BYU this December.

Bachelor's in urban planning. See, we hired him before he gets to do a master's program so we can keep him while he grows. Thanks, Jacob.

Then we've got 2 long—

well, one really long-term employee here. Justin Skillings is not new to the city. Right here. Justin's been with us 21 years.

24.

Oh yeah, 24.

Who's counting?

That's better than me.

That's a compliment.

Justin was just promoted to our maintenance building maintenance supervisor position, and we're lucky to have him. He's dedicated, been here a long time. He knows all the ins and outs of all our facilities. You want to add anything, Justin?

Just, I'm—

I love this job.

I, you know, I like to Coming every day.

So yeah, something new every day, even after 24 years.

So what's your biggest headache?

What do you worry about?

This building.

It's just you got to keep going.

Just go, go, go and get it done, you know, get it fixed. So I've always had a pretty good attitude.

I think Jesse's probably the one guy looking most forward to the new Yeah, lots of leaks. So get those fixed, it's going to be nice. So they're working on the adult wing.

Okay.

And then next to Justin is Travis Savage. Travis has been with us a little over 2 years. He's our new division manager over building maintenance. Travis has taken the position that you created for us in the budget last year, and now Paul Ashton is able to focus on on building safety.

Travis is a Norham native.

He and Justin both won our Halloween costume contest in their Dumb and Dumber costumes.

Oh, you Dumb and Dumber costumes.

So if you saw that, they were great.

Those are the two dressed up. So Travis, all of you. The question we're always asked is who's dumb and who's dumber. That depends on the day. No, I just wanted to say Justin does a great job as our facilities tech now with his promotion. He's earned every bit of that. About me, I grew up here in Orem, like Ryan said. Lived here my whole life. Back here currently with my family. I have 4 boys, one on the way. Just trying to finalize the basketball team. I love working for the City of Orem.

I love being here and working with each one of you, every one of you.

We get to know the new council members, so I look forward to the opportunity. Which high school? Orem High.

The only high school in the world.

Go Tigers!

All right, anyone else?

No, just happy to have these guys. They're great, doing a great job for us.

Appreciate the work. Thanks, gentlemen.

Mayor, members of the council, I'd like to introduce you to 4 of our newest firefighters in the fire department. They are in their second day of recruit camp.

Wow.

So they're, uh, they were very gracious to get dressed up and come down and visit, visit with me and introduce themselves. Brayden Partridge, we've got Nathaniel Kutchin, Kelsey Christiansen, and our longtime Dave McNamara.

He actually—

we hired him 3 months ago, but we elected to put him through this academy because the first time he did, he wasn't able to attend that. So he's— we brought him back off shift, and they're a great addition to our staff. With Nathaniel, we hired— we were initially going to hire him flex, but Angela Cole has announced her retirement. Because of that, we were able to hire him full-time, get him into this academy, which is really going to be a benefit to him and to us as a whole. So let's start with you, David, and you can add anything else you need to. Yeah, of course. Thanks, Chief. David McNamara, originally from Columbus, Ohio. I'm Ohio proud and now I'm Warren proud. I'm 26, been married for about 4 and a half years. We got 2 kids.

We got a son, he's 3, his name's Beau.

And we have a daughter, she's 1, and her name is Raylan. And then my wife's name, her name is Kylan, and then her mom's name is Lillian. So it's kind of a 3-generation thing. That was my daughter.

I've been here like 3 and a half months or so.

I love this job. I love being a firefighter. I love fighting fires, helping people out on medical calls, doing CPR, doing all that. So yeah, I'm happy to be here.

I'm Kelsey Christensen, originally also from Spanish Fork. I've had some family here as well. Got my paramedic back in April and just finishing up the fire academy down at UVU. I'm about 2 or 3 classes away from a bachelor's in emergency services, and I just look forward to the experience of being here and being able to serve the community.

There's a possible—

maybe they can waive that. Is that possible, UVU?

We'll waive it.

We'll waive it.

Yeah, yeah, I just thought I'd try for you.

Well, having been somebody who's received the benefit of well-trained individuals, I would not want to deny her that training. Or you, or me, the blessing of having her have that training.

I'm Nathan Kirchheim.

Most people call me Nate. I grew up in Valdez, Alaska. My dad was a Coast Guard officer, so we traveled around. I was in Alabama, North Carolina. I now live in Lynden. I love this job.

Best job in the world.

I haven't been doing it very long. About 48 hours.

About 48 hours.

It's the best job on day 2.

It's the best job on day 2.

No complaints yet.

I'll let you know. Yeah.

I'm Braden Partridge.

I'm originally from LaVant, Utah.

I've been married 2 years. I'm 2 months away from my bachelor's. And we just had a baby about 5 days ago, so notice the black.

So are you related to the Partridges in Spanish Fork?

Uh, nope, in Springville. Okay, well, welcome.

Glad to have you all here.

Mayor?

Yes?

Perhaps we could have folks in the room introduce themselves.

Sure, that'd be fine.

That'd be good.

Would you mind starting?

Sure.

So Mayor Brunstad, and, uh, we're going to form autotakes. So enjoy it. You want to go ahead?

I'm Jamie Davidson, the city manager.

Um, Councilwoman Debbie Larray.

Barksey Strang.

I get to know you for about a month and a half.

He's leaving us after 35 years on the council.

35, huh?

Seems like that.

Brent Sumner, Orem City Council. Also a retiree. Yes.

Uh, Steve Downs, Deputy City Manager.

Greg Stevens, City Attorney.

Brandon Nelson, Finance Director. Brian Clark, Development Services Director. Tom McDonald, City Council, and retired.

And we don't have Councilmember Sam Lentz.

He says he's dialed in but can't hear anything, by the way.

Oh, okay.

And Dave's not here either.

And Councilman Spencer will be here.

He's going to be late.

All right. Well, thank you very much.

Mayor, if you wouldn't mind, on the police department side, we have 4 in the academy. And unfortunately, they can't get out of the academy to come here. And so what I wanted to do was put together a little introduction that we could present. But unfortunately, they didn't get it to me in time. So that's the first disciplinary action I'm going to take on them is they didn't get it to me on time.

They were studying.

I'll give them that they're studying, but we have Seth Schaefer, Dakota Hoover, David Hallam, and Tyler Mitchell who are all in the academy right now. I don't have a lot of information. What I'm going to do—

So they're all new, they're not laterals?

They're brand new, they're not laterals, they're in the academy. We have one more position we just got available to us. Right now we're having a hard time getting people into the academy, getting a position in the academy. We got one opened up in January, so we're probably going to have Nathan Evans that'll start in January. But what I want to do— it's really difficult for me sometimes because by the time we hit even Tuesday or Wednesday, they may be on a whole different shift even when they have started.

Sure.

I will try to get them here for the specific workshops. I only went back to the beginning of October. If you remember, just right before that, most of you know Savage, Officer Savage. He's now back, which has been An absolute blessing to us. He jumped right in, didn't take any time at all to get back up to speed. In fact, he's a superstar already, but he's back. And then I went from October on. What I'll do is I'll put it together once they get that back to me, and I'll email all of you a little video blurb of who all of them are so they— at least you guys can see who they are. But obviously they can't get out of the academy to come down here today, so I apologize.

Sure.

And Gary, if you'd like, in the future In the future too, we could put their pictures and all their bios up on a PowerPoint at the same time we do this in the event they can't be here.

Yeah, and that's what I wanted to do today. Again, unfortunately I didn't get them all, and so, uh, I'll have that for next time. You know, for any of them that can't be here, we'll do that next time. But I will get this one out to you so you can see who we have in the academy.

So Gary, are these new ones that the property tax is paying for, or are these people just replacing others?

I haven't— well, I'm still down 8 people right now. And so we can say yes, I just— it depends on which ones you want to put those. We're down 8 people, so, you know, I'm— and that doesn't even count those 4. So right now we're still down some. We're just still trying to catch back up. And so we've got— we had 2 lateral interviews yesterday. We handed out 1 background packet in that— in those interviews. We'll see where that goes. And then we've got— we'll retest in probably the end of—

Monday.

December, maybe January. I just can't, I can't retest right now if I can't get them into the academy, because by the time they get into the academy, somebody else will pick them up. And so we're just, we're trying to figure out. We've got UVU, there's a class down there right now that's going to be special functions officer certified at the end of this month, and we're hoping we can pick up a few of them. And then we've got a plan with them too. Okay, so hopefully we'll have a few new ones for you next month.

Great.

Thank you. All right, uh, we appreciate the opportunity to have Utah Valley University here, um, and I will let Cam Martin introduce his 2 compadres and tell us why he's here.

Thank you very much, Mayor, council members, folks. My name is Cameron Martin, Vice President of University Relations at UVU. We've interacted many other— many times before. With me I have Steven White, Associate Vice President of University Relations. He's new, he was over in University Marketing Communications. We slid him over to help me out on the University Relations side of things and executive communications. And then Steve Anderson, who you've met before too. He's our Director of Community and Government Relations and assists us in our relationship with Orem. And he is, along with some of your staff, Jamie, teamed up on the Town and Gown Committee to make sure that we're more in sync as 2 organizations that really rely on each other and to better serve the community. So thank you for your time. I wanted to go with you, so let's pass these out. There's 2 documents we're going to give to you today, but this is— this one, the Vision 2030 Plan, is the primary focus of why we've asked to have some time with you. This is another piece of information I'll tell you about a little bit more in just a moment. So I wanted to give you an update because there's some chatter in the higher education ecosystem in the state of Utah. The legislature last session created a commission, a commission for strategic planning in higher education, higher education. That commission has been meeting and has made some recommendations. There are some interim reports which we found really rather troubling. It's based upon the premise— there's really 2 things that this commission is focusing on. I should back up and just say one is the governance structure of higher education in the state of Utah. The other is Utah County and its growth. And specifically, can UVU as an integrated dual mission institution expand their scope to meet that growth in demand. The legislature has decided to table the Utah County and UVU issue until they first get the governance issue resolved. And so that's going to be their focus this session. And in the governance, it's— you have the Utah System of Higher Education, otherwise known as USHE, and then the UTECH system. And the UTECH system is the And they're talking about creating a singular body overseeing both for better collaboration. I'll show you here in a little bit, but ironically, our collaboration with MTEC is actually very good here in this county and is a model for many other parts of the state. We felt it important that given that chatter and what's going on, we needed to come to you. And in the end, there's really 3 points to this meeting. First and foremost, I should have started here, and it's to say thank you. We do appreciate the partnership, and you need to hear it from us that we appreciate it and we thank you for what you do. Your leadership has been instrumental in many aspects in what we do at the institution. The second then is to give you an update on this plan, what we're doing for the next 20— for the next 10 years in response to that question, can UVU's model, can and scale to respond. And then third, just clarify what it is as a dual mission institution. And what does that mean? What does that look like? So you have some clarity. And our hope is that, Mayor, when a legislator or council members, they say, hey, what's up? You can act as an informed— we would hope an informed ambassador of UVU and just simply say, we get the model, we like the model, and because it's— And we'll say— It just economically makes sense, but it's really most importantly, it's to the betterment of our students who we serve. So UVU has a new mission statement, and this has been officially adopted. It's in state statute. President Tamínez wanted us to get it down to one sentence, something we could really understand and recite. What's underlined here is the key element that we're going to drill down with this Vision 2030 plan. And that's what does it mean to be an integrated university and community college. These aren't— these are not 2 separate institutions. This is an integrated experience between the community college function and the university. So at the heart of it all, truly, I think if you were to go to any of our meetings, our cabinet meetings, to our trustees, down to anything across the board, you would know that student success is at the heart of it all. We're trying to— what do we do to improve the student learning experience to prepare them to be turnkey-ready labor talents within the market, whether they're firefighters or police officers or city planners or what have you, that we're responding, meeting that need and training them appropriately. And these are the action commitments that President Zaninis is challenging us to make sure we provide exceptional Being accountable to everyone and also to ourselves and to make sure that we provide the results that we need to as a public entity with public trust. In the brochure, the other brochure that I handed out to you, you'll also see this chart. There are 3 dual mission institutions in the state of Utah. Weber was the first into the model. And it was created legislatively. UVU then was the next and now Dixie. Dixie is about really 10 years behind where UVU is in its growth in the model. And Weber's been at this since '62, quite a while. Last century was known as, you know, a lot of people talked about the California model of higher education, community college, regional state, and an R1 primary research institution. And that's what everybody is trying to go to. Well, bullishly speaking, we think the 21st century will be known as the Utah model because we have 3 institutions that are— follow this model. And you have states like Wisconsin that are taking their community colleges and melding them to their regional state universities. And you have Florida, for example, 2-year institutions offering 4-year degrees. You have to do more with less, and you're trying to serve an ever-growing population. And so we believe that this model is not only born out of just necessity, but its efficiencies are also significant because students aren't lost in that transition from a community college to a university. Some students don't even make that transition. But if you were to do that here in the state of Utah, for example, on average by our estimates, a student who would completed at Salt Lake Community College and transferred to the University of Utah would cost that student and the state $14,000 more than if they were at an integrated dual mission institution. Because it's seamless and it's one experience and the student is familiar with the modality of the institution, credits aren't lost. It really is a point of efficiency and effectiveness on the student experience. And so just to give you some highlights here on these institutions. 50% of all the student body in the Utah System of Higher Education are being instructed and taught at these 3 institutions. We are the workhorse of the state of Utah. The integrated— these institutions are serving the fast and rapidly growing regions of the state. You obviously know how fast Utah County is growing. Next fastest would be Washington County. where Dixie is, and then so forth up north in the Ogden area. So the areas that are growing in the state, these are the institutions that are growing, expanding to meet those needs on the higher education front. 47% of all associate's degrees are produced graduates from these 3 institutions and 38 out of the baccalaureate degree. This other brochure is a partnership between Weber, UVU, and Dixie in producing the clarify the differences between an R1 or a selective university and a community college. And you can even see on this inside bottom right-hand corner the average tax funds per student, FTE. The state is getting, and you consider its— who it's educating and its production, the best bang for the buck on institutions that are creating under a single singular experience, an opportunity for students to level up from a certificate to associate to a baccalaureate and so forth to a master's. So these are the institutions. You can look at the other stats. I won't spend time because we have very limited time and the brochure speaks for itself. But it is a partnership that these 3 institutions, 3 presidents are locking arms and having discussions with their community leaders about what it is, what— and the distinctive nature of each.

Thank you.

But please understand that as we describe what these institutions are doing, it's not a diss or a negative towards the other institutions. That really the kaleidoscope of offering that we have here in the state of Utah really is to the strength of our economy. Because it's not a one-size-fits-all. And there is a proper role in place. The best way I like to describe the difference between, say, a selective university or R1, the University of Utah, for example, a primary research institution, and an institution like UVU both play a critical role. Take autism, for example. The University of Utah is leading the charge on the genetic side of autism. What's going on there? That's informing the practitioner. That's us. We're the— we'll teach the world on how to respond. So first responders and how to recognize somebody with autism so they don't escalate a situation. situation unnecessarily. Educating the parents or the person with autism or teachers. We'll lead the world in responding to autism while the University of Utah will lead the world in understanding the genetics behind it. Both inform each other. Both are important. So please understand that what I'm saying is not a diss on the others, but it's actually a point of clarification of what we do and a point of actually complementary elements between the institutions. As I said earlier, There's a community college and then there's a university. And a lot of people like to think of us as 2 separate institutions just that shares a roof with one overhead. Please don't think of it that way. We're an integrated community college and a university. This comes to the point when this commission says to UVU, well, your tuition on a community college is too expensive. And they leave it there. I like to say, finish the sentence. Finish the sentence, please. And they get a little confused. We might be a bit more expensive on the community college for a 2-year degree, but we're far less expensive on the 4-year degree. So you can't talk about one without the other because it's an integrated experience. We have students that are going in and getting a 2-year degree and starting their profession, starting at Micron, for example, with a mechatronics degree, $60,000 to $70,000 a year, 2-year degree. And they'll hire as many as they can get. So there's opportunity within the marketplace in various degree types. And this is— they can come to an institution like UVU and have a broader student experience. That's what they're wanting. And, you know, if they didn't want it, why would they else be coming? So moving on, this is just a little commercial for you about our demographic of our students. 36% of our students are first generation. That is transformative. That is transformative. And it's— and we need to grow that because there are many more in our community that are self-selecting themselves out of the opportunity of higher education. And it's not that they have to have a master's degree. Again, it's that leveling up. And the next slide I'll talk to you about that, that laddering, that stackable credentials, how important that is. You know, 40% are married, 27% are working full-time. And 19%, and growing, of students of color.

A lot of us—

Before you leave that slide, if I may, Dr. Martin?

Please. May I have one of these waters?

Yeah, sure.

I often ask when we show that slide, how many in this room fall in one of those categories? We're first generation, work part-time, work full-time, we're married.

And I think that affects most of us.

Yeah.

How many first gens in the room? In the audience here.

That's great, that's great, that's great.

To the others, I was— I'm not first generation. I had conversations around the dinner table how to navigate enrollment and, you know, signing up for classes and those type of things. Had encouragement because my parents had that understanding. 36% of our 41,728 students don't have that kind of reference at home. So that's significant. We're trying to reach out and help them, provide them that opportunity.

Thank you.

Thank you for that. So now we'll get into the specifics of the plan. So if you turn to page 3 on this document, you have the executive summary. These are the high points of what I'll be hitting. You have this here, and you can also download this or look at this plan online. It's uvu.edu/strategicplan. And it's just Vision 2030. So uu.edu/vision2030. So the strategies, there are 3 basic broad strategies. One, enhance the student success and accelerate completion to a meaningful credential. We need to figure out how. Students today, when I was in college, I went to college, why? So I could get a job. Today, Students, I want to get a job and then I'll augment that with college for career laddering experiences. We need to make sure that we keep the cost down and the access points easy to ebb and flow in and out. And we have some internal woes that we got— wrinkles that we got to iron out. And we're identifying those and proactively using that. We're using— looking to technology to do a lot of this as well, not just on the business side but also on the pedagogical side. Thank you.

Cameron, question for you. Maybe you've already covered this, but how many of those who enter as freshmen complete their education going straight through?

Straight through? Oh, I don't know that number. What about 2 to 5 years? A 4-year degree on the national front, to get a 4-year degree they give you 6 years to do it. And at that 6-year mark, we're not very good because we have a lot of students who go out for church service or military service. And— but if you go out 8 years, then we actually hit the norms on the national front. So straight through, I don't know that number. But I would tell you our completion rate right now is 36%. Our goal by the year 2025 is to have our completion rate at 45%, if not higher.

And what is the state average on that, do you know?

Completion rate.

Well, that's a great question.

Can you see— one of you two see and find out? Steve, see and find out what the state average is?

All right, we know that we need to be at 40.

That's our goal, to get to 45.

Sure.

But that's also a partnership with community. So when you hire somebody before they've graduated, you make a commitment that they cross that finish line. And because we have a lot of students like, oh, I got the job, why finish? And they drop out. We need the commitment of businesses And we're talking with Vivid and others, what else can they do to encourage that crossing of that finish line so that those completion rates— because it's kind of a false negative because, oh, our rate's 36%, but how many are just that much closer and can we get them across the finish line? And you'll see in the next point of strategy online learning to help us get across that line to make it more available. We'll find out that answer for you, Mayor.

Sure.

Thank you. So moving on, just due to time here. This is the slide talking about those stackable credentials. So what can we do to make the senior year in high school, in partnership with the public ed, more relevant and then get a credential, get a certificate, get out, get going in the workplace. Then go on to an associate's degree and so forth. It's a stack 'em in. Think of a video game when you get to level 5. Great. And then, oh, you fell off the path. You don't go back to the beginning. You go back to the beginning of 5, right?

Right?

Because you haven't mastered that level. Once you master that next level, then you're at 6 and so forth. You gotta— we're starting to think of the degrees in that kind of a way because that's how the students see it. I need this type of degree now, it gets me this job. When career opportunities come up and I want more, then I'll come back more. And we can't— we gotta make it easier and accessible for them to do it. And designing programs that will— that are conducive to this from the very inception. If they want to jump track from mechatronics and now go into engineering, Great, let's roll that previous experience and work experience towards credit to get them across the finish line in a better, more productive way. So on strategy 2, is this the one I just had? I can't see, it's not showing up here on this screen here. Improve the accessibility and flexibility. Oh, this is that online, for example. So we have a lot of students who are working, right? 80% of our students, if they have a class schedule and it's conflicting with their work schedule, they need online options to get across that finish line. But to the younger student, we want them to have the in-person experience. I don't want my kids going to school in the basement on a computer by themselves. I want them to have a social experience. But yet there are some who are working parents and that they need that latitude. We're working to have that. We're in the process of hiring a Vice President of Digital Transformation to overhaul this and make this— help us in this process to make it even more accessible. On the one point of access, this will look familiar to you. These are the various campus sites that we have across the state of Utah. We have 2 in Orem. You know where the 2 are, right? Canyon Park and then Orem. And then you saw today on the front cover page of the Daily Herald, the pedestrian bridge is— we've already started fencing things off. It was delayed because we were waiting for the right-of-way over the airspace of the railroad. Who knew that they owned everything from the ground to the sky? But they do. And so we had to get an easement over that. So the construction has begun, and the local company— how do you say it?

It was Mount— Schubsteel.

Schubsteel. It was Mount States National Hospital. They got the contract. They're building the bridge on their property in Linden, and they're just going to bring it down Geneva Road and turn it, boom, plop it in.

They build a lot of bridges there.

They're gonna, they're gonna plunk it into, into place about a year from now is the estimated time. But you're starting to see them fence off the property on, on the west, and then you'll start to see it in the median of the freeway and so forth. But it's important as we grow that we grow along the Frontrunner is fine because that Frontrunner can move the bodies up and down without— we want to decrease traffic. UVX has been a huge blessing to UVU and BYU for that matter. Over the last 2 years, we've together sold 1,350 fewer student parking passes. And at peak parking times, Tuesdays and Thursdays, we have over 1,000 stalls available. Some of them complain, I don't see them. Like, well, you gotta walk a bit, but they're there.

So I don't know how many cars your big parking lots hold, but that's got to be the size of a pretty good-sized parking lot, 1,300 spaces.

Yes, it is. And that's one reason why we are able to take out some parking to build the Keller Building, which will house the Woodbury School of Business. Sure. As Val Peterson said at the groundbreaking, a parking lot is just a building waiting to happen.

happen.

So anyway, thanks for laughing. I appreciate that.

Cameron, I did hear that there are 14,000 per day riding— or per month riding the UVX.

Per day.

Per day, sorry, per day. And that about 45% of them are UVU students. Is that similar to what you know?

I was told 48%, 46 or 48% are are UVU students. So yeah, wait, or is that all? No, that's UVU students. And then BYU is around 35%, and then the rest are—

And a large majority of those riding Frontrunner down to Orem.

Over 4,000 riders a day on Frontrunner coming down into Orem. So the pedestrian bridge, we think, will increase—

Both So that shows the spread though of the university and how much it affects our state as a whole.

Correct.

Now one of the things to keep in mind here is that as we continue to build out these other campuses, Orem maintains that central function and hub. So students go to an undergraduate work— school experience, you can't have 10, map 10, 10 in Orem and then English 1050 up in Heber or up in Lehi. It doesn't work. You keep that clustering of that undergraduate experience at the Orem. But then at sites like in Provo at the airport where our post-certification and our emergency preparedness folks are being taught in aviation, then they go to a destination location. So we will look to have campuses in different locales. We already have a building we're leasing in Lehi It is the old Zango building, then it was the Entrada building, then Entrada built the new one. We're buying that building, and then we also have 10 acres there as well. We look to expand to meet so not everybody has to drive to Orem to access online, and then also having the standalone programs throughout the various areas.

Do you know what programs you're going to put in Lehi?

Megatronics and things of that nature will be out there to service Silicon Slopes MBA will also be out there. So various things that are demanded by that clientele.

And are there any other further intentions you're aware of purchasing additional properties around the state?

Around the state? Specifically, yes. We know that we need to be out in Saratoga Springs, Eagle Mountain area as the population center starts to shift there. we'll have a footprint. I was on the phone with city administrator out there saying, I'll give you land, just come a little bit further, you know. So it's, it's, we got to be up there. To your question, maybe, maybe it's more around our Orem campus. Not so much that.

I was thinking more like Point of the Mountain.

So we have that building and 10 acres, and in between the building and 10 acres is the Lehigh Frontrunner stop. So those— that's what we'll look to do there. Obviously, we are procuring more land in Vineyard. In total, we'll have 285 acres there when that's all said and done. We're in negotiations for the last 60 of that. We are in escrow in Payson for 30 acres, and we'll have 15 years to have structure there by the time that closes. And that's waiting for UDOT to finalize its coordinates.

Sure.

And we will do a cooperative—

Because they're doing a new exit there.

New exit, exactly right. We'll do something in partnership with MTEC and Nebo School District down there. But beyond that, our service region is Utah County, Wasatch, and Summit. So we're not looking at— although we do have Capitol Reef. If you ever want to go to a city council retreat, Go to Capitol Reef. We have overnight accommodations. It's solar-powered and well-watered so you can get your services. But at night, it's one of the dark places in the country. So there's— yeah, you with the telescope, you can see further and deeper into space. It's phenomenal because there's no light pollution.

What role does Wasatch play? And over the years, there's been Little activity up there. Is that increasing?

It's increasing. Jessica Gilbert is over that—

or Gilbert—

Gilmore, other Jessica, who's doing that. Looking to do some executive training, and also there are some cohorts that are going there. It's a smaller enterprise, but we do have that building and are maximizing as best we can. So moving on, just in a little time, there's our K-16 Alliance we talked about. And this is provided to you, I believe, right, Steve? You have this PowerPoint and it's also in the booklet here. Our partnerships with the community and our BRC. Thank you for assisting us in hiring a new BRC director. We are wedded to you and committed to Orem City and the BRC and the functionality And what we can do to improve that even more. And then really that's it unless there's any other questions.

Please, Tom.

You know, you—

one of the things that UBU has done regularly is boast somewhat of their growth, but I think so much of that growth is concurrent enrollment that that's helped to give us a more realistic number of the numbers. Are you splitting that out between the roughly 42,000 and full-time equivalent or? Non-high school students, are you—

Yes, we are. So of the 41,728, 12,000 of that's concurrent enrollment. But we also want to grow that sector because that would help students complete sooner. Because if you can graduate with your associate's and your high school diploma and you pay $5 a credit, why wouldn't you? I will say, I know we're in a public setting meeting, Historically, it was a strategy to bring some attention to UVU and what we're doing, our growth. And our growth was and is and will be still an important variable. It was also helpful to talk about when we were trying to get buildings and to grow out the infrastructure. But growth is not really what needs to describe UVU. What needs to describe UVU is that we're a place that engages students, that we're a it's a place that we help students attain and achieve and that we're inclusive to folks. Those are the nomenclatures and the descriptors that we need to be known for. And that's what we're working to do beyond just growth. But we are growing, as you can feel and sense in this city, because you're growing.

Cameron, Jamie has a question.

Please.

Cameron, with this Vision 2030 document and the strategy that you have put Does that in any way amend the physical facilities master planning effort that you undertook several years ago? Is that kind of the next phase of this, or does that shift in any way?

No, that has helped inform this. So we've had an academic master plan, a physical facilities master plan, an inclusive master plan, a completion master plan. We've had a variety of plans And this is the amalgamation of those plans. To your point though, will the facilities master plan be updated? Yes. And it's a little— as we live and grow, it will too. But we haven't gone through a significant process to update that, but look towards doing so in the future. We're working with yours, with the city, because you're doing neighborhood planning.

Correct.

But we're going to be an active participant in that process as well.

So we occasionally get, um, that neighborhood, the Suona area, concerns about UVU is going to keep pushing eastward, you know. Um, have you, have you designated that we are— these are going to be firm boundaries so that we can give that neighborhood a little bit of peace of mind? Or where are you at? What I'm thinking mostly is, you know, maybe around your— well, we call it the Palisades.

Sure.

Is that going to be your boundary, or do you not know yet?

We have no interest in the current time or foreseeable future in the current administration of going further eastward or in ways that encroach upon neighborhoods. There was the letter that I issued to the mayor. a few months back because it was over a year ago when President Tuminez first came. In the Sunset Heights neighborhood, there were 4 or 5 different property owners who approached President Tuminez asking her to buy their property that was contiguous to our land. And I think they were taking advantage of somebody who's new. Oh sure, let's talk about that. There's an unwritten, you know, a university's like an airport. You always need more land, right? Because of the growth of various natures. That kicked off a hornet's nest. We went in and we met with the Swann Group and also other neighbors of that neighborhood. And they gave us feedback because there was a proposal to just, for future growth, identify the homes along 925 South as a future growth. But if you look at the topography of the land, what would you do with it? It doesn't make sense. It's a natural break. We're always going to have a neighbor. We have no interest in going there. And so we skillfully— we carefully redressed that internally and then issued a letter. Other than the Paul Theobald home, which we now do own, because there's an access point from our side of campus from the campus side without impinging or inflicting or altering the nature or chemistry of the neighborhood. Um, to that, that, and that would also then, uh, provide us some other widening of the road of that property too, that we foresee will come when the, uh, DBX comes around on that, on that road down the line. But all the rest of them, we've said no. And there were some mad neighbors who who we had an agreement with, who we then canceled those agreements. So to your point, uh, Debbie, that we— excuse me, Council—

You can call me Debbie.

925 South, other than the Theobald home, which we now have procured, we have no interest. Now they want us to say in perpetuity, and you know, Mrs. Parrish still remembers the day when 960 South was never going to be paved. I don't recall that that are not being paved. That goes back how long? 40, 50 years. We can't make those things in perpetuity because we can never foretell the future. And just as we said with President Holland as we transitioned to President Tominas, there might be some change. But even as that went down the pike, we pulled it back, we reassessed, and we've now given those neighbors the assurance we have no interest there. And others have since come and we've said, said no thank you.

Thank you. I just think they feel like it's a slippery slope.

I know, and I don't know what it is. And you know this too, every time I have a meeting they say, I heard you're going to buy Lake Ridge Junior High. And I have unplugged that rumor I don't know how many times. Um, where would Lake Ridge go? I mean, that function still has to be serviced.

If I may, Mayor, I think— and we had a conversation, Cameron, uh, several weeks ago with as they came in and presented some of the options and discussion points we've had together relative to transportation in and around campus.

Yeah.

I think that will be a conversation with the neighborhoods, with the university, obviously in the relative short term, but also, you know, long term as we look at the future of the UVX system, the alignment of that of that transit project in and around UVU campus. Conversations tied to 8 South and the future of trying to alleviate some of the congestion on 1200 West, some of the congestion that exists at the Parkway and Sand Hill Road, which is really kind of UVU's front door. We're in the middle of a roundabout project on 4th West.

Right.

Which also obviously has an impact interface with the neighborhood. Those are the kind of conversations I think we are engaged in and will be engaged in prospectively to try and develop solutions that meet with the needs of the university, the needs of the neighborhood, and in this case, the needs of UDOT, which is obviously the carrier of the road system in and around the campus. Well, at least Yeah, 2/3 of the roads in and around campus are UDOT-controlled facilities. So that's kind of where I would expect the next kind of discussion point to be with, with many of the neighbors.

And I'm sure they'll have—

Yeah, it's just been an issue through the last few years, and it has— it would be nice to kind of have a firm boundary, you know.

Well, I sent that letter to the mayor, and also—

That's a firm boundary for now.

And we all have a copy on that, Debbie.

Yeah, I know, and I do remember it. I'm just asking if it's even more permanent. The answer is yes.

How do you, you know, how do you foretell the future and do something? But we'll always have neighbors, and we always want to be a good neighbor. And there are some who disagree in how that's playing out. I know there's discussions still on the Steele property. We are just sitting back and listening. That's a private deal between that family and that contractor. They both have approached us and said, hey, what do you guys figure it out? And so that has yet to be determined, in my opinion.

Is that an I-Cole?

Yeah. Yes, yes, sir. I can't speak to that because that's their deal. But we obviously believe that with the end of the developments called the Green on Campus Drive, that, that along with UVX will significantly help the traffic and accessing of campus and hopefully help our student experience improve even the more and hopefully alleviate some of the pressure and strains within the neighborhoods. And so—

And that project is coming along very well.

It is.

Question for you though, are there any other future buildings On the docket to go after?

Yes, so you'll see that the Woodbury School of Business, where it currently resides, and there's a parking lot immediately south, that's where the Keller Building will go. And that construction starts— we'll start chaining off those parking lots on the front of campus in mid-December. So if you're going to access campus, best to access from the north side. We will have We'll move the pedestrian and vehicle traffic. We're creating other access points to visitor parking around campus, actually increasing the number and the access points. So hopefully it'll be better. The next building, to your point, is our— on the Orem campus is for our College of Technology, Engineering and Technology. So the current computer science building, which is up there by the airplane on a stick, if you will, Across the street from the old president's residence. It will go there. It will go off on the—

Not on the parking lot?

On grass.

And how big an ask is that? How much money for that?

The total structure of that building is $88 million. We have room and we are raising money privately. We're assuming it'll be a similar ratio as to the Woodbury School, or to the Sure. The state provided $50 million of that, so it's a $78 million structure, and we raised the rest. So we're assuming a similar type ratio to this other.

And then what about your vineyard property? What are your timelines there as far as development goes?

So we're trying to get a student performance facility built there. If you've ever been to the trailers on that old— on that corner on the northwest corner of campus, the aroma is not stinky just because of the wrestling team practicing there, but there's other plumbing issues too. It's not a good facility. We've got to redo that. That will be replicated out at Vineyard. start to create an athletic center, student athletes center out in Vineyard. You will see, however, on Long 8 South, there are 2 homes just immediately west of the Center for Autism, Autism Center. Those homes are being taken down. That will be a new footprint to our Institutional Advancement and Alumni, be a new Alumni Center. Where the Alumni is, is the old Miller property.

Currently.

Currently. We'll look to either tear those structures down and rebuild into a— perhaps it might be one idea, just one idea, as a new president's residence and guest house type of experience. They've also talked about that for the Theobald Home, so that's kind of up in the air, or just to repurpose it into some other function of the campus.

But they have—

they need better space and they've outgrown that space. space that's there. So some of the homes that are owned, we don't— it's still in discussion.

Sure.

Thank you.

Any other questions? I thank you for your time.

It's great to have you here.

Please, if you have contact with our state legislators, let them know hopefully we have— we've earned and will continue to earn your trust, and that we're scaling and scoping our model. to meet the needs of the area. I don't think we can afford a separate community college and a separate university fiscally, let alone to the, to the efficiency, effectiveness of our student experience either. So hopefully, as in conversation, if you have any concerns about anything that we're doing at any time, let us know. And especially if you think of opportunities of how we can improve our partnership and do more with you, let us know.

Well, we appreciate the communication. It's very important that The city and the university are closely tied together and working together for the future.

We're on the road now. Today's day 1 of sharing the Vision 2030 plan. We're starting with the cities that we have a footprint in already, and then we'll go to all the cities in our service region because we want them to know we're their college, we're their university, and how we can improve our partnerships throughout the community. Sure, thank you for your time.

Great, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for the water. Great to have you here, Steve and Steve.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right, we'll now go ahead to a discussion on rental licensing, uh, and fee study review. And Steve Downs will be the presenter.

Steve, are we going to—

we going to get to see your family again?

No, different computer.

Okay, I didn't want to spare you the sad beat.

That's the latest weekly update. Yeah, that's the latest week.

We do do pictures about every other week. Maybe you could invite us over for, you know, I could.

Yeah, I think with Aaron— Aaron with Zion's Bank is here as well. There's going to be a portion of this where we talk about, as you know, a study that we did to look at disproportionate cost.

Thanks.

Aaron did a lot of the geocoding and kind of data crunching behind the scenes. And so as we get there, know that we can speak— Aaron can speak to that in more detail. We came before you a couple of months ago to talk about the licensing of rental properties and also— and they kind of go hand in hand— the shift that we, we've proposed, we've discussed to require all utility accounts to be in the name of the property owners as opposed to allowing those to be in the name of the landlord or tenants. We'll talk more about that. Let me just kind of— this is the basis of what we're talking about though, is strengthening warm neighborhoods.

And what we've—

as we've talked about this and looked at it and discussed the different challenges that are happening, what we've really kind of come to understand is This idea of strengthening neighborhoods is really— it takes kind of this 3-legged stool of the city, the landlords or property owners, and the residents all working together. And currently, how it's structured without any licensing or contact information about the property owners, we haven't been able to really involve the landlords and property owners in the discussions to the level that we feel like we need to, to strengthen neighborhoods. And we're going to be working with the city to strengthen the neighborhoods the way that you as a council have identified and the way that we as staff want to do as well. So we'll be talking about this, but this is really the concept, is let's build a 3-legged stool that involves everybody in the discussion. Desired outcomes again: improve neighborhoods by gathering contact information for landlords, and that's property management companies and owners connected to each rental property. This will allow us to proactively notify landlords about items, Pertaining to the property, citations, code violations, water, police, et cetera. Point number 2, prevent other citizens from having to make up for uncollected utility bills on rental properties, which again, we send about $70,000 to collections, we collect about $20,000, there's about $50,000 that goes uncollected every year. Reduce the disproportionate amount of time dealing with rental properties. This is changing names as new tenants move in and out, collections, verifying lease agreements, work orders, et cetera. And then bring the landlords into the conversation about strengthening neighborhoods.

Again, the 3-legged stool.

As they talk about code enforcement, what our plan and proposal would do is allow us to proactively notify landlords when there's an issue on the property. This would be an automatic programming that we would do with our rental licensing database. So as we would go out to a home and issue a citation for noise or underage drinking, whatever it might be, We would program that through the database that we have of now landlords through our rental licensing, they would automatically be notified that we were at their property and that something had happened. And then we could now involve them in this discussion of how do we stop something like this from happening again? How do we remedy the current situation? This happens a lot when it comes to code enforcement type issues. Chief Giles can probably speak to this as well, but we'll go and we'll be working on an issue with a home. Well, the tenant— will, during that time, move out, a new tenant moves in, and now we're starting over with a new tenant. Bringing the property owner in allows us to continue continuity.

So, do you have any idea how many landlords have been aware when a problem has occurred at their property and maybe they were never notified?

Well, I would guess that a lot of them, because part of it is the education of the officers though. Not all of our officers are really up to speed on the code enforcement. And so, you know, for example, you guys have already noticed how neighborhood preservation, depending on how— depending on who's leading the unit and so forth, we have education that spreads throughout. Now we have brand new officers that it's hard to keep them up to speed, and some of them aren't aware of how we deal with code enforcement. So if we get a party at a house— A lot of times the officers will go out and they'll deal with the situation, but they don't ask, what's the living situation here? That's something that we've got to teach the officers. Back when we first started the Neighborhood Preservation Unit, that's something that we really were able to concentrate on, and we actually had enough officers that we could deal with that. We actually had one more neighborhood preservation officer than we currently have back then. And so we could ask them, just in person, we could ask them, who's the land— you know, do you own the home? Who's the—

Who's the landlord?

The actual landlord here, and we would give the, the landlord or the owner an actual notice of nuisance. So if we went out there on, say, an alcohol party, we would actually give a notice of nuisance to the landlord, or we would mail it to them. This just would make it so much easier because it automatically does that. And so it's going to take some education on our officer's side as well to actually ask them, you know, who is the responsible party for this home? Because a lot of times we just don't ask. And they may be renters and we're just never aware because we didn't ask the question. But this would be nice because if we do find out that it's a rental, at least we know that if they don't have a license, it's an illegal rental. If we know that it's a rental and that it is legal, then it'll automatically kick out a letter to the landlord.

Incredible. That's important.

Yeah, what we've discussed is they would enter into SPILM like they typically do. That data then is automatically pulled and sent And so if they forgot to ask, it would still take care of making sure the landlord was notified.

Yeah, that'd be great.

And SpillVents is the database you're using, right?

Yeah, that's right.

To keep track of all that?

Yes, that's our records management system.

But if it's an illegal rental, does that kickstart—

Then that's—

and that's where the education site comes in with the officers. If it is a rental and we get there and it's— and it is a party house or a drug house or whatever the case may be, Maybe if that officer finds out that it is a rental, they need to communicate that and get it— we need to set up a plan whereas they can contact either the city or business licensing, however we do this, to make sure that that landlord is then contacted and said, look, this is an illegal rental, and then we can enforce it as that. Right now the problem is we respond out there, there's no repercussions. Why even ask if it's a rental? In a sense, if we're dealing with certain, you know, non— how do I even put it? If we're going to a house on a, say, a drug house, you know, we need to find out who the landlord is. We leave that up to Neighborhood Preservation. That's on me. I need to educate my officers that it doesn't just go to Neighborhood Preservation. Any officer could technically enforce that and find out who the landlords are. And so this makes it a little bit easier because then we can at least ask is this a legal rental or not, uh, we can find out a little bit more. But that, that is on me to, to make sure to educate my officers that they can find out a little bit more about the home when it is a nuisance.

Yeah, thanks, Chief. That's good clarification.

Um, again, allowing them to have the contact information, address illegal rentals quickly— you spoke to that as well— and then over time allow us to identify the landlords that aren't— that are less attentive to their properties, right? The ones that we now— we have been notifying automatically about issues, the issues continue. Those landlords aren't as attentive as well.

I know of SPILLMAN, but I don't know all the reports it does. I'm assuming it gives you a reminder.

It's not just a dumb spreadsheet, it's a database that gives you some reminders or—

Data in, data out. So if we don't put it in, we don't get it out.

That's part of the problem.

If I put in Mr.

Jones, And they say, hey, this is the 7th complaint we had.

Does it pop up that good or not?

Not necessarily. And that's what neighborhood preservation is for. They try to keep track of all of those when we're going out to the same house over and over. Our analyst is actually doing a lot of that now. In fact, we just barely hired an analyst. We had our first, what we call, comp stat meeting this month. And he came in with all of the people that we deal with the most. This month we've dealt with this guy this many times. And he's going to do the same thing with locations. This month we responded to this location this many times. And so having that analyst is going to help do that. Neighborhood Preservation has been tasked with keeping track of that. Do we have some slip through the cracks?

Absolutely.

It's not quite as automated as—

It's not. And Spillman is very difficult to work with. The company itself, it was actually purchased by Motorola. We thought it would get better.

It didn't.

We've had a lot of problems with Spillman. But it doesn't necessarily have a reminder that flags the house unless we put a flag in there.

Okay, thank you. But those, those ones that are on your radar, are those mostly residential homes?

I would say the vast majority, because when there are apartments that are actually— and I'll stand up so you can see me. We actually talked about this, and maybe Steven can talk a little bit more about the data that he found. In my personal, the qualitative data that I see is that the majority of the apartments that we deal with, if it's, say, an owner-occupied apartment where, say, a basement apartment, the owner-occupiers are easy to deal with because when we go out there, they don't want that. They're living there. And so they'll kick them out really quick. They just need our support sometimes because they're scared of the eviction process. And so when we go there and we help them, Be a little bit more sure of the eviction process, they get them out. And when we go to multi-unit housing, for example apartment complexes, they'll get them out really quick. In fact, when we go there, we'll go there one time and they'll find drugs, and for the most part, that complex is going to kick them out. We have had, say, fourplex owners that have been a little bit shady in the past, and we've had to get on top of them. But the biggest problem, and I think you can speak to that, the biggest problem I think is the non-owner-occupied units. Buy a home, the single-family dwelling where the owner lives somewhere else. They don't even care about that. They're renting, and as long as they get their rent, they don't, they don't care. That's the biggest problem I think we see.

And we will— there has to be a chart, and Aaron did the data on that, so we can definitely speak to it.

Good questions, great questions.

Utility billing. This is the other side. We have code enforcement, utility billing. What we're proposing is require all rental properties to have in the name utilities in the name of the landlord. And then adding a property management company if applicable. Landlords can still assign tenants to pay—

If you can hear me, I've got a question.

Yes, Sam.

So on the last slide when you were talking about code enforcement, so if somebody, let's say a tenant got, you know, arrested for, you know, a violent crime, assault or something like that, Would the landlord be notified of something like that, even if it didn't happen at their property? I'm just wondering, like, what triggers— is it only neighborhood preservation items that get notified to the landlord, or is it any, any time there's a crime, you know, that person's landlord gets notified if they're a norm?

So, Chief, chime in here. What my conversations with code enforcement is there would be some filtering of what types of calls would go there because of the sensitive information. So there are types of calls that we put in, and those are the types of calls that would be sent on.

And I think if I understand you right, Sam, part of your question was if they were arrested for a violent crime somewhere besides the property, would that landlord be notified of that arrest? Is that kind of what you're asking?

Right.

Yeah, no, they wouldn't necessarily be tied back into that property. So We're looking at nuisances that are happening on the property. So if somebody, for example, was arrested for a robbery that they did somewhere other than that property, it wouldn't really kick in because it wouldn't notify— we wouldn't know that they were in a rental home necessarily, and it wouldn't kick it back to the landlord. Unless something happening at the property, for example, domestic violence that happened on the property, yes, that could kick it in. But if it happened somewhere else, no, it would not.

I think so. And then I don't know, say, this is the other part of that potentially is, are there some kinds of calls that a police department would respond to that we would say, hey, that's a very sensitive personal thing that we're not going to notify the landlord of?

For example, maybe a sexual assault type of a case. It depends on the— it would really depend on the situation. We'd have to look at that a little bit more sensitive as far as how it happened, what happened, who the victims are, who the suspects are. We'd have to look at that a little bit differently.

And part of the reason I asked the question, I'm wondering if some landlords might start to rely on this as like their background checks once somebody's living there. So I'm not suggesting I know what the silver bullet solution is to that, but I'm just curious if we have answers to spelling out these are the types of things that we would let notify the landlord, and these are things that would be sensitive that we would not notify the landlord.

Well, we actually have in code right now, we actually do have a habitual nuisance code, so it doesn't necessarily have to be— and I can't remember exactly how many times we have to respond in an 18-month period, I believe is what it is. And maybe Steve can—

3 relatively minor offenses or 2 big offenses like the party house or The, uh, you know, more serious crimes.

It's 18 months. Yeah, yeah. And, and I actually helped write that code back in, in the early 2000s. And the reason that we did that is because exactly what Stephen was saying was if we have somebody that rents the apartment out and then we go there on a drug call, but then they kick them out and then they get the next, the next druggies in there, we don't want that either. We don't want the slumlord. And so if we go there 3 times in an 18-month period, we can actually charge that owner with maintaining— with a habitual nuisance because obviously they're not doing their background checks, they're not doing anything about it, and then we're just responding back to the same problem over and over, maybe different people, but it's the same location. So we can still deal with that even if they started using that as a background check. And so we're dealing with the same property but different people, 3 in 18 months, we We could kick that into a habitual nuisance problem.

Is there a fine with that nuisance offense?

Yes, they could either be civil and/or criminal.

Yeah, the habitual nuisance I think is $500, and just a typical nuisance is something $150, something like that, for just a single nuisance.

So we could deal with it as our administrative law judge?

So that's an administrative citation, an administrative fine.

That's what that is.

But we— but it still, it still falls under the criminal as well.

Could.

If we wanted to go that direction. So we, we kind of have some different— now that we have the administrative law judge, honestly, that works the best. But, but it could still kick it over to a criminal side if we needed to, depending on the situation.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks, Sam.

Utility and building permits.

Again, so landlords would have the ability to assign the tenants to pay the utility bill and have the bill electronically sent to the tenant. Tenants can pay any of the ways they currently pay, and that includes autopay. So landlord would go in and put the name of the tenant at that property. That property— that tenant would get an email saying that this landlord has suggested you'll be paying the bill. How would you like to do it? And then they could sign up. They'll So if the owner says, I want to just hold on to the bill and include it in the rent, they can. If they want to put into their agreement that it's still the tenant's responsibility, then that can happen as well. So you still have both avenues. We're just suggesting that ultimately the landlord is the one that would be responsible if any bill is unpaid and if you have issues on the utilities.

So if the tenant is responsible, the owner or landlord Landlord is getting the same emails, same bills, correct, same notifications of shutoff, same all of those things. All those things.

In fact, I may get into this. We did do a— I will get into this, but we did a focus group with landlords and property managers, and this is, this is what they all said, and that is, if we're going to be ultimately responsible for the bill, we would prefer it being in our name. When it's in our name, When we call, we can get information on the account. We'll know when it's getting late one month, two months. The cities that say that the landlord's responsible, but they don't put it in the name of the landlord—that's where they struggle because they find out about it three months later when the bill's $500 and it's about to be shut off. They call the city and say, "Can I get some information on the account?" No, you're not listed on the account anywhere. So their preference. And I mentioned this before, but what they said is, hey, we'd love to not have them in our name because it's easy for us, but we understand why the city would do it the way that they're proposing. So if it's going to be us responsible, please put it in our name.

Is there a possibility of having multiple choice, i.e., I don't want it in my name as a landlord, but I'll give you a $100 deposit or a $200 deposit so that they don't need to do Are we giving them some outs for a landlord who doesn't want it in his name because he's fearful that whatever, credit rating, etc.? Do we have a door, a second option?

No, we currently don't.

I mean, I think that's what we're trying to avoid, actually. We are, yeah.

So—

What are we trying to avoid?

I'm sorry. So not having the landlord responsible as the person of last resort. So we want his name on there.

He should know what's going on with his property with the utilities. Yeah, yeah. So, Doug, yeah, currently that is not the plan.

And then part of that is to this last point, reduce the amount of work our employees spend doing shutoffs, reading meters, reviewing lease agreements. As these change over to tenants, we have to go through a lot of extra effort, and we'll speak to that a little bit too.

So it'll be interesting after a year, year and a half of this to see I think it's important to see what our collection rate is.

Absolutely, I agree.

Hopefully it should go up considerably.

See if this works for sure.

So these are just some numbers. We did go over this before.

This is the same chart.

Utility billing. The orange are the percentage of rentals that are single families that go to collections. The blue are the percentage of rentals that are multifamily that go to collections. How we currently have it, blue in the name of the landlord, orange in the name of the tenant. So you see obviously, you know, significantly more single-family rentals going to collections than multifamily. So that's the collections. And then the other part of it is the work orders. This is the percentage of our single-family rentals that have a work order in a given year. This is the percentage of our multifamily. So you're looking at 12% versus About 55%, which would make sense. If you say every— if you say 50% of a rental turns over to a new tenant every year, then that would make sense. Multifamily, we're just not going out on those properties very often because utility account stays in the name of the same person. A tenant moves in and out, but that doesn't impact our utility billing at all. We continue to bill the same individual or business.

How long do you work with them on the water bill? I mean, if I don't pay mine, do you go 60 days or—

90.

90 days?

90 days.

90 days.

There's a $15 charge if I remember right if you don't pay it by—

Yeah, but then you have a rehookup charge if it shows up.

After the 90 days.

After the 90 days.

And there's a $15 late charge each month that you get behind.

Do we require a new deposit though for the people if they go to collections?

Yes.

And how much is that?

It depends on how much their bill is.

So give me a—

It's like a month and a half or 2 months worth.

Okay.

Average bill.

So $100 to $200-ish?

Could be, yeah.

A little update. So since last meeting, and the next slide is going to be the data, we engaged with Zions Bank. We went out for bid on this. Zions Bank won the bid, and they looked at the number of police calls per per unit for all types of rental properties and compared that to the number on an owner-occupied rental. We had a focus group of landlords and property management companies. The feedback was, and I mentioned this, if they were going to be responsible for the unpaid utility bills, then they would rather the utilities be in their name. This will allow access to the accounts for landlords, I mentioned this, to be notified early if payments are getting behind, they're not going to be surprised in the end as well. In cities where utilities are not in their name but they're responsible, they're unable to access information and they're getting large bills. In fact, Santaquin is one of those. They've now reduced from a 3-month shutoff to a 1-month shutoff. And so now they're shutting off people every month they get behind, or month or month and a half, but they've shortened it. That becomes really problematic, and it's not necessarily the policy we'd like to go. There are people People that just get a little bit behind, something happens, and we don't, we don't want to be there to shut off, you know, shut it off day one. It's just, there's a reason banks don't repo cars month one. They give time to let them catch up.

But again, while you have the landlords with their name on there for the utilities, they can designate who the utility bill is sent to.

Correct.

And that goes to the person renting.

Correct.

And so both the landlord and the renter receives that bill. The renter knows he's supposed to pay for it. The landlord knows he's ultimately responsible.

Correct.

Correct.

Do you shut off light from now until January where it's cold? We do, but they have here around Christmas and around Thanksgiving, they have— I forget what they call them, but a period where they don't, especially the last 2 weeks of December. I will title it the compassion period. I just made that up. Grace period.

Grace period.

Yeah. Well, then in January where it's cold, I probably don't want to— Christmas has passed. You should shut it off then.

They do in January.

Yeah.

I mean, heat might be a different—

We don't heat ours.

Yeah, we do.

Yeah.

So that's since last meeting. Aaron would— this is the data. If you wouldn't mind coming up for a second. Again, Aaron with Zions Bank can speak to this. This shows the, the number of calls per unit. This is the baseline, and owner-occupied, it's about 0.5. This then shows that number for these different types of rentals and the cost per door. So maybe speak to that a little bit, if you wouldn't mind.

Yeah, so as you'll see, like you said, the top is the base. So all these that fall below the base, they are not causing what we would call a disproportionate cost. Or an extra cost to the city. So those don't have an extra cost here, but you'll see that these single-unit, uh, townhome, condo, these are at 0.74. So the cost, the baseline cost, about $126 per police call. And so you'll see if this is 0.5, close to 0.5, above, That, then you've got $60. So that's where these fees are coming from. It's very simple, just cross the line. We looked at the calls that were going to these units, these complexes, and we matched them to the police calls to see how many calls per unit were being attributed to these different types of properties. And this is what the analysis has produced.

Any questions specifically on that?

Just how he got to 45 cents and 40 cents, but—

$126.36 per police call is the baseline. So, when you go over 0.58, that's where that's coming from. That's, you know, 0.9864 minus 0.508 times 1,000. That at least suggests there was a calculator somewhere.

Well, we know it's—

Not in my head.

We know it's Zions Bank, so it has to be down to the pennies.

That's right.

I'll take that as a compliment.

Yeah.

For raising the questions.

You know, we did go through this. I think we were somewhat surprised as we talked with landowners and, you know, Chief Giles kind of mentioned You get into these large complexes and those property managers are taking care of a lot of the problems for us. You can kind of get that through here. You get into a fourplex situation and if there's a neighbor that's really loud and throwing a party, their next-door neighbor is probably going to call the landlord and say, hey, you got an issue going on here. You get into a single-family rental and you don't have—

That's true.

There isn't that same— they're going to call the police. They don't know who else to call. So then you get the townhome, that's less. This is our thought, but generally in a townhome, they're living in an HOA where the property is maintained by an HOA. We're not going to have the same number of code enforcement issues as we would again on these single-family rentals. So that's the police. Now the cost per door, if we were to charge a per-unit charge, that's what we would be allowed to charge. We can't charge under anybody else. Because they aren't giving disproportionate— as Chief Giles said, basement apartment, there's an issue, usually the property owner lives upstairs and he's going—

he or she's going to take care of it.

So now we get into what we are proposing for our cost of licensing. Our recommended fee is $50 per landlord. The state law limits this to one per landlord regardless of the number of units.

We are—

we are They are paying for the cost of registering their property and maintaining that registration. Whether that applies to 100 or whether that applies to 5 or whether that applies to 1, we're really still just collecting information that one time, and so there is no additional—

So large apartment complexes that do bill individually, are there any of those? Or even like the big ones at the mall, are they billed a master bill?

Yeah.

Yeah.

All the utilities are master because they're all— Everything that's duplex and above, those utilities are already required to be in the name of the owner. Thank you. Yeah. So, when we talk about changing from being in the name of the tenant to the owner, we're talking about 25% of our rentals. 75% are already this way. That's just this last 25%. But we see that those 25% are what's giving us a lot of our challenges.

Stephen, if you have different properties in different LLCs, it's still $50, right?

Now, if you have different ownership of all those, we wouldn't be able to—

So if you had a different LLC?

Different LLC, yeah.

But if it's Brent Sumner Inc. across 6 properties, it would be $50?

Yes, but if you have 6 different LLCs, we have to match up to each LLC, therefore there'd be a license fee.

What do you risk?

What do you estimate the revenue amount is from the license?

Yeah, so, um, rough, we're probably talking $100,000 to $120,000 a year. What we don't know is how many units one given owner might have.

And we're losing $50,000 a year right now that we're not collecting?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. Plus, so, so there's that, plus there's going to be the cost of licensing, there's code enforcement checking on the licensing, all that, all the Licensing program as well.

Oh, and so how does that apply to Airbnb or to short-term rentals?

Yeah, so we will, we will license them as we do anybody else. There is a larger conversation to have about short-term, so we've seen—

we've looked into that quite a bit.

Anything else you'd add to that, Steve?

No, just for right now we would just be treating them the same as any other rental.

Yep.

So they need to register?

Yeah. They wouldn't have to specifically designate that, hey, I'm Airbnb as opposed to just a normal rental. They just have to sign up as a rental like everyone else.

There are additional police costs associated with single-family rentals and townhomes, condos, but to charge those disproportionate fees, the 60% and 30%, you'd have— we need to develop a good landlord program. This is something we consider in the coming year when we have better data. One of the things that I think, and this is From the discussions we've had with landlords, one of the concessions I think that we think is fair is the per unit charge portion of this. If we haven't, like Chief Giles has suggested and we know, if we haven't done a great job of letting landlords know about the properties happening on their— about the issues happening on their property, then what I think we need to assume is had they known, they would have helped us address these problems. So our thought is let's go through the first year of licensing.

Let's get them licensed.

Let's begin notifying them on issues. We can look then later and say, we've been notifying you for a year, we've been notifying you for 2 years, and you're not helping us resolve these problems. Therefore, we're going to start looking at a per-unit type charge to those landlords that aren't helping. But if what we find is that these landlords have been willing to help the whole time, they just didn't know, then perhaps what would happen is those issues start to go away. So we want to look at that later.

Steve, can I just please mention, so when the Neighborhood Preservation Unit first started up, we did really good about getting a hold of the landlords, making sure that— holding them responsible. We had a civil process in place, but that civil process, we kind of got away from that for a long time. Now that we have the ALJ in place, the Administrative Law Judge, this will really help that a lot. We have a process in place that we can really enforce this. For a long time, if we had out-of-state landlords and we were charging them criminally with something, they didn't care. I mean, if I had a landlord in California and I told— and I got a hold of that landlord and said, look, you're a slumlord, we've been there 4 or 5 times in 18 months, we're going to charge you with the habitual nuisance code, and we've got an out-of-state landlord, it really didn't have a lot of teeth to it. Now we do. Now we have the teeth to it. In the last year, we've really put in place the process for this. And so one step at a time, we've really got to a point where I think we can have some teeth in it because we can actually now have an ALJ that has a civil process in place rather than criminal. If they're out of the area, landlords, we still have teeth in it, whereas before we really kind of got away from that for a long time. For many years, we were looking at it as a criminal issue. a criminal problem rather than civil. And, and that's just not a problem. That's not helpful when we have an out-of-state landlord or an out-of-the-area landlord because they don't really care. They don't care. It's not going to do anything for them. This— the process we have in place now with the ALJ and this, I think, work together really well.

One of the things you'll see, the ordinance we'll bring forward in December does say that if, if the property owner is out of state, If they're out of state and they don't have a designated property management company, they have to give us somebody here in state that we can work with when there's problems. We can't have only one contact and that contact be in Texas. Any questions on this?

This is nothing to do with businesses, it's just apartments.

Yeah, we already have a business license fee. Yeah, this is just rental properties.

I do have a question.

Yes, Sam.

So if somebody is renting out their basement to a family member, for example, are they still required to pay the same $50 per landlord fee?

I would say they're using it as a rental. If it's family living in their basement, because we don't know if they'll change sometime during the year and no longer it's the family. If they have designated it as a rental property, they But that is the conversation we've had so far.

But technically, if they're family members and they fall within the designation of a single-family dwelling, they really don't have to have a rental license. So it just, it kind of depends on the situation. When you say family, I know a lot of people tell us that they have family members, but they're kind of the, you know, a friend of the family. Well, that would be a different situation. But if it's an actual family member that's living in the basement and renting a room, I mean, that technically doesn't fall within the need to be a rental property. That would fall within a single-family dwelling.

And as far as somebody renting out their basement, but it's not registered as, you know, a qualifying accessory dwelling unit. Um, how does, how does that get handled any differently? Is there kind of a fine for doing it illegally, or are we not able to even charge the $50 fee? How does that get handled?

Oh, if we find out it's an illegal basement rental, then, then we, we would, we would deal with it under the nuisance code and the administrative law judge. We would give them an administrative citation for having an illegal rental property, or basically a— I mean, they've turned it into an illegal rental, and then we would issue a citation for the administrative law judge. They'd have to go in. They'd have to basically either bring it up to code and get it licensed or kick the people out and take it back to a single-family dwelling.

Does that make sense?

Yep, thank you.

How do you address someone that says, well, I'm a second cousin Third removed or something.

That is the magic question right there, especially when we— I mean, I dealt with it because I was the only one to speak Spanish. I had a lot of times where people would tell me that they were family members, and then it got really convoluted because—

They're all family.

You know, a lot of times when I would be speaking Spanish, I would find out that they were cousins, but then it ended up they were just because of How their last names were, I'd get talking to them and it would end up that they were just from the same town. And that doesn't make them cousins. But it's hard. I mean, in all reality, we go there and we question somebody and they say, you know, we're family. How do we prove that? I mean, it becomes very time-consuming. So I won't give up our investigative tools and our tactics, but At the same time, it is very difficult for us, but that's something that we as the officers, we try to find ways of questioning and asking the right questions. But again, it depends on how much information we have as to— sometimes neighbors will say, well, I know they're not family members, but then they're telling us they are. It just depends on how far we want to push it. If it's not a nuisance property, Maybe we don't push it so far. If there's drugs on the property, maybe we deal— we just deal with it another way. But that is difficult because how far do we push it? How far do we— you know, we can't go and take DNA from everybody and force them to do that. So that becomes a little bit of a problem, and it is difficult for us.

Just the logistics operating a rental licensing program, is it handled through our utility billing system. So what we would actually have is when the landlord puts their utilities in their name, the utility billing system will have everything we would need to generate a rental license. So that is the only system that they'll have to deal with is the rent— the utility billing system, putting it in their name. We would then extract to create the license and bill them and have them sign agreeing to the different rules that we've set out. I mean, one of the things that We have a lot of rules that we play by that I think a lot of landlords choose to look past. I think some don't fully understand. In the rental licensing mode, it allows for them to sign an agreement, right, saying that they understand that these are the rules that they're being asked to play by to have a rental property. With the help of our civilian code enforcement employees to help through this licensing as well. And that is where the additional employees would go. This would provide some relief and help to those areas that are asked to enforce This as well, and where we can see the data suggesting that the burden is being placed currently. The license would mirror fiscal years July 1st to June 30th. Our plan would have signups begin in January, but the initial license— if somebody signed up in January, it still is going to run from July 1st to June 30th. So all initial licenses would expire June 30th, 2021. So somebody comes in in January, they pay their $50, Well, they still get those 6 months plus the next year. If they sign up in July, they get 1 year. It'll be administratively easier if we're on a calendar year or a fiscal year.

Sorry.

Yeah, fiscal year.

Any questions about—

So what happens if the landlord drags you out and drags you out and drags you out?

So we have talked about that. Just Nate Prescott, our intern, is actually going through all the data. We have requested and we have it all. From Utah County property records, a list of all properties in Utah, in Orem. And in those properties, we have all the mailing addresses for the property records, property taxes, all the things Utah County uses, and the physical address. We've gone and we've matched up where they differ. When it's a different mailing address than a physical address, we are assuming it's a rental property. We also have our utility billing system where we flagged rentals over the years. We'll be matching those up, and in our system, we'll have Everything we've identified as a rental, we will reach out to those and we'll be able to, as they license, check them off.

And so, I mean, if he's supposed to come in by June 30th and sign up for the next year, pay his $50, but he goes, you know, I'm not around, I can't do it, you know, I'll get to it in July. Yeah, sorry, I'll get to it in August. Sorry, you know. So how are you going to enforce that?

So what we've talked about is in July we just We generate the bill and we send it to whoever the utilities are in the name of. If it's still in the name of the tenant, we anticipate the tenant will probably have a conversation with the landlord because somebody will have to pay that bill. So we have a trigger that we feel like we can pull to basically force the conversation.

And then we'll have obviously code enforcement, civilian code enforcement personnel in addition that can follow up.

Mail letters and do all that type of—

collect those. Correct.

And we'll have late fees just like we do every other license.

Because I could, I could see where you're going to have some that are going to kind of try to evade it.

No, I, I, I think you're right. Being realistic, we know that some of that will happen. But our thought is, if July 1st they've avoided it and the utilities are still in the name of the tenant, then we send the bill to the tenant, and in that it says this is due by this date. If you are not the owner, Get this to the owner, but this bill has to be paid.

Mayor, also in the draft ordinance that we have, you know, failure or renting a house out or a property out without a license is technically a misdemeanor like any other violation of code. So, you know, we can send out notice to them that they're in violation.

They could be prosecuted.

You know, there's some enforcement tools out there.

Is there a fine associated with that misdemeanor?

Sure, yeah.

And that's what ALJ makes this much quicker.

Well, yeah, it can either go under civil enforcement or under the criminal enforcement in our elections.

So if I could, I think this would be a lot like the alarm permit program. When we first instituted the alarm permit program and made all of the— well, any business that had a home, they all had to have an alarm permit. We knew they weren't going to have it. So as officers, when we responded out to a business on an alarm, an alarm, we would check and if they didn't have a permit, we would actually notify dispatch and let them know, no permit. Well, and then we had somebody else that was going through and they were contacting the businesses or the, or the residents, if the case may be, and notifying them and saying, hey, look, you didn't have an alarm permit. We responded out. You need to have this alarm permit. It took a little while before we finally got everybody with the alarm permits, but for the, for the most part now, we respond out and everybody has an alarm permit. I think it's going to be the same with this. As we respond out and as I educate the officers, not just the Neighborhood Preservation Unit, but all officers as they go out and deal with any situation that may be a nuisance, to ask some, some, just some questions as to, is this, is this, you know, is this a rental property, is it owner-occupied? Eventually we're going to get to the point where we can hand out the information, and I think just like the alarm permit program, it's going to take some time, but over that time everybody's going to eventually kick in. and they're going to get it. So I would think that, or I would imagine it's going to be a lot like that.

And I think to work collaborative, the other, the other side of that is they come in to do something with their utilities, and at that point we say these need to be in the name of the landlord. Sam, did you have a question?

Yes, so you were talking about comparing the mailing address to the physical address. There were just 2 cases I was curious. If somebody, you know, is owner-occupied but they have a PO box, I'm assuming we can still exclude them from that, like if their mailing address is set up to PO Box?

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, any communication we would do, we would say if we've misunderstood and you are an owner-occupied— because the other thing we'll match up is our utilities, and if the utilities are in the name of that property owner, then we assume that that's the case as well. So that is just kind of one checkpoint, and in all cases, we'll always give them how to basically let us know that it's not a rental property and then we can move forward.

Okay, and if the property is owned by a family trust of like the current residents, so they're not renting it from the family trust, but they're essentially part of the family trust, I'm assuming that wouldn't be treated as, you know, a rental property, right?

Will Brandon's current staff handle all this?

Well, we do have— yeah, we anticipate hiring an additional 311. That's part of this licensing fee to help with that as well. And we anticipate that one being a Spanish-speaking employee because we understand the nature of this will have a lot of multi—

you know.

Well, what we need is a Spanish-speaking employee, generally speaking, Anyway, the whole group will obviously be participating as far as helping in this regard. So you'll need a little more manpower, but we will.

And Steve, just out of curiosity, other cities doing this, can you tell us that? Yeah, they're—

yeah, as far as the licensing, a lot of other cities do that. This is not uncommon.

I think it makes sense.

Especially in a college town. I mean, you talk about the growth of UVU. There are great things that come with it. There's also a lot more potential renters coming into the community. We've seen a lot more single-family homes flip to become rental properties. I don't think many— I mean, there's some that have an issue with it, but everybody has an issue when it becomes a property that is no longer attended to. And so that's what we're trying to combat, is a growing university and a growing community with a large percentage of single-family homes turning into—

Did you see Provo PD?

Mayor, I can speak to that. In the process of drafting an ordinance for this, I've looked at most of the other big cities in Utah, and almost all of them do a rental licensing program.

Sure. I think it's a great idea.

And if I may too, I mean, if you look at some of the data that's coming out of the University of Utah, the suggestion and trend is more and more individuals are moving towards rental relationships. So you're seeing a higher percentage of individuals in the state actually renting property rather than owning property. So this is a trend that is shifting away from single-family homeownership to more of a rental relationship with places that they live.

Yeah.

So Steve, do you know, I mean, with the other cities, what is their— what are they charging?

Is $50 in line?

I would say that $40 is about the lowest I've seen.

it goes up to $75, $80, $90.

Do you know what Provo's is?

Uh, I think Provo is actually the $40.

Yeah, and we don't have the— and then some of these others that do the $70, $80, they also have a per unit charge on top of that.

Some of them do on top of that.

Yeah, currently we're not. So I would say we probably, from what I've seen, we're either second lowest or tied with second lowest.

We came up $50.

Well, we looked at what our licensing costs for currently business licenses. You have an idea of what the process of licensing is, and we're actually a little lower.

So yeah, that's kind of what we—

but I think the difference too is with Provo versus— Provo has a lot more student housing than we have. We have a lot more single families. I mean, they have that too, but we don't have nearly the number of units for students.

But we can always adjust down the road if we needed to.

Absolutely. Yeah, that could be adjusted.

Good question.

All right.

Let me just really quick, just our next step, just so you know.

We do—

we'll have an open house with landlords to let them know the changes, fees, how to come to compliance. We have had a lot of questions, a lot of phone calls. We've talked through a lot of them. Most of them, there are some exceptions, just say, what do we do? How do we sign up? We didn't want to have that open house and then say you still can't really do anything yet. So we want to have that when they're ready to take all their information and get everything taken care of. A lot of them are going to want to leave that meeting, get everything paid for, and be done. So we'll have that probably at the beginning of the year. The city would forego the per-unit charge for the first year at least to allow us to further determine how we should proceed, looking to equitably charge fees to landlords through a good landlord program. Getting licensed would be as simple as getting the utilities in the name of the owners, adding a property manager when applicable. Minimal programming would need to be done to allow the city system to accommodate both the utilities and the rental licensing.

So are most cities doing a per-unit fee then on your multifamily?

So yeah, both. Yeah, so they all have a good landlord program, those that have a per-unit charge. And what you'll usually see is it's like a $5 fee if you're a good landlord, up to a— I'm just making up numbers— $40, $50, $60 if you're not a good landlord. So yeah, you can't have a per-unit fee Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, if you don't have a way for them to be able to have a reduced—

Right, you can't charge disproportionate fees unless you're doing the Good Landlord Program, which gives them an opportunity to basically avoid that disproportion.

Yeah, which is what we're kind of being able to ensure. Any other questions with that? We would bring that December 10th. The code change would be the utilities being in the name of landlord, and then there'd be an ordinance for the rental licensing program.

And then that's how—

just, Steve, just a point of clarification, that second bullet point where we talked about the first year, we're actually talking about 18 months. Oh, so January 1st, 2020 through June 30th, 2020.

Correct. Yep.

There would be no per-unit charge. We could look at it then at a later date. We would just be charging the $50 license fee.

Sure.

And after July, there's a service charge or late fees.

There would be fees that would apply.

Yes, correct.

Okay, thank you for your time.

All right, appreciate it. I think that'll be a benefit to the city and to the residents. Um, looks like our food's here, so why don't we have a prayer? Debbie, could we ask you to give us a prayer?

Sure.

Our Father in heaven, we're grateful to be gathered this evening and ask a blessing upon this food, our nourishment and strength. Thank you for the opportunity we have to serve here and warm and We ask his favor and blessings in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Amen. Thank you.

It's all good.

Yeah, it was, it was $800, $900.

It wasn't too bad.

So for Christmas, instead of getting stuff, even though I, you know, really love stuff, we just—

Lisa had a couple.

We're doing that.

And then my daughter Heather, Alex, they're going to be in Utah from the 21st until January 5th or whenever it is.

So they were really frustrated that we weren't going to touch base with them.

Made my dad talk last time.

He did good.

So I hate to break up the party, but we probably should start back on our agenda. So if I could have everybody's attention, we're going to go ahead and start back in. It kind of seems like a Christmas party here right now. I kind of hate to break in, but anyway, um, so we'll go over our agenda for this evening. Um, we have some upcoming events. We do have the Alpine School District meeting with the Orange City Council tomorrow at noon here at the city chambers. So I don't know how many can make it, but Dave, you probably won't be there. Brent, you'll be there? I'll be there tomorrow.

Okay, Debbie?

Mark?

Okay, good. Um, then we have Habitat for Humanity ribbon cutting on the brand at 4 PM on the 21st. And December the 4th, we have the EPU basketball warm city night, 7 PM. Not quite sure how that will go, but hopefully it will go well. We have a report from the Metropolitan Water District this evening. And that should be a good report.

Good evening.

Consent items. We have approval of meeting minutes, and then we have the acceptance and certification of the 2019 municipal general election. You've been given a sheet here, everyone, in front of you. Hopefully you've read it enough to know that Terry Peterson, Jeff Lamson, and Debbie Luray are the winners.

And what I wanted to do was to Yeah, and we'll put the numbers on the screen.

Okay, so I think there was some—

there were some things that I think the mayor is going to read when he introduces the consent items.

Okay, so I do want to just go over the vote count. Terry Peterson was 9,858. Jeff Lampson, 7,995. Debbie LaRae, 6,740. Sam Lentz, 6,728. Spencer Rands, 5,547. Michelle Jensen, 3,644. So the 3 candidates with the highest votes as of the close of voting by the Orem City Council will be Terry Peterson, Jeff Lampson, and Debbie Lorraine. And Jodi will have each of us sign. We have our own personal copies, but she has a copy that we'll sign before we're through this evening. And so part of our consent agenda will be the approval of meeting minutes and the acceptance and Certification of the, uh, our municipal general election. Um, everybody comfortable with those 2 things at the moment?

Yep.

Okay, uh, then let's go on. Um, then we have scheduled items. We have a public hearing, an ordinance amending Section 22-11 24E-5, 6, and 7 by changing the setback requirements on University Parkway and Main Street in the PD-12 zone. Jason's our presenter. Jason, any thoughts?

I just wanted to match the existing building after the widening of the parkway with UVU—

or BRT—

UVX.

Basically, it's about between a 10 and a 15-foot setback. Setback now existing, so they're wanting to match that setback.

10 feet is the maximum or minimum setback.

Okay.

Any questions?

Is the intent to line up, to continue that line up?

To get the building up similar to what's there, yeah. They're not going to be closer than what's already there? Maybe a foot, but not much closer.

They're going to be off the corner. The corner building is going to obviously stay. They're taking out part of the Barber Brothers old Does that affect the binding at all?

That's the same zone, so they— if they were to rebuild, they could meet that same standard.

As far as the right-of-ways, did those change either? It narrowed quite a bit when they widened. They probably took about 30 feet or so, depending on the property, and that property took a big hit as far as lighting goes.

Took a big chunk off that property.

Okay, then the next one is a motion authorizing the mayor to sign an MOU with the Hale Center Foundation for the Arts and Education. Are we going to list up there, Ryan? And Ryan, you're the presenter?

Yes, correct.

Are we going to have on the screens the MOU itself?

I do not have that. I have the language associated with the portion of what the city is saying.

I do not have the other part up there, but I could maybe add that if you'd like me to.

We could just take a copy of the, uh, yeah, the agenda and shoot it up on that on the screen.

Okay.

And do you want to read the MOU right now, if you would?

Sure.

All right, the portion that we're going to scroll to it.

1630 Page.

This memorandum of understanding is made and entered into by and between the City of Orem and Hale Center Foundation for the Arts and Education, DBA Hale Center Theater in Orem, also known as HCFAE. Whereas the purpose of the memorandum of understanding, MOU, Is to reaffirm the City of Orem's and HCFAE's commitment to work cooperatively to plan and construct a new Hale Center Theater at University Place in Orem. Number 1, HCFAE will work diligently to obtain at least $15 million in donations, in parentheses, gifts, grants, and pledges, for the construction of a new Hale Center Theater at University Place in Orem. Number 2, the City of Orem is committed to help the proposed new Hale Center Theater, Orem at University Place, The university plans to move forward. The mayor and city council will help facilitate financing of the project before construction commences. And that is the MOU. Okay.

All right.

Any questions or comments at this point? So this is an MOU. This is not a commitment to finance anything. It is an MOU saying that we're wanting to help facilitate Correct. All right, Jamie, I'll get back to you in just a second if you have something. I wanted to ask Jason, do you have anything coming up?

Nothing currently on the 10th other than we're bringing back the HP 411 for consideration for the solar Okay.

We talked about last week. That will be coming in December, but that's the only item we have.

Okay.

So do we know anything as far as Central Utah Water, anything that they're looking at yet? Do we know anything about Wright's development of, uh, Meadow Gold property? Know anything about the BASA situation on 8th North and also the property south of Monteval on State Street and by Macy's up—

So we've talked to developers on both the Monteval and Old Fossett Fitness, but at this point they have not submitted anything. Okay, so only a preliminary discussion of what the ordinance is, how they can meet it.

There is a discussion with the Fossett or the 920 North project to partner with another developer to come in for the commercial side. Okay, that's—

we've waited We'll have to wait and see who that is, but at this point they have not submitted anything in either one of those.

The right development on the Parkway, I have not seen anything on that.

They just barely resubmitted this week for the Canyon River project by the river.

So tell us about that.

So they are proposing a PD zone for 150 or 140-something high-density housing units with a Maverick on the frontage of 8th Boulevard.

Okay.

But it's still in the process.

The bridge plays a component with access with University Avenue, so there's a lot of issues that we're still trying to negotiate with the developer before we bring it to the legislature.

Okay.

My guess is probably January.

Okay.

And when you're doing that, are you going to put into play as well, uh, what UDOT's plan is for 8th North at the canyon? It's my understanding that they're going to put in a median, and it would be good for us to know what that is, how long, where, because that would affect, I think, that property.

This will be—

this project, if approved, will actually implement that median. So they'll be the ones putting in that median. If council decides to approve that project, that will be part of the deal. If it's not approved, UDOT is represented and they'll put the median in.

It would be good to know what their plan is. In other words, how far does it go? All the way there to the stoplight at Palisades?

Uh, it'll show on our concept plan. I don't believe it comes up all the way to the light. That's something we'll need to determine.

We'll have to look at it again.

We just received it yesterday at 4 o'clock.

Okay.

We've yet to dive into it.

Okay.

How many units is that again?

It's 150 units.

I think it's 152, somewhere in the low 150s. Okay, good.

All right, Jamie, do you have anything?

Yeah, just a couple of things if I may. I think we've all shared with you that we are not going to do a Lights On event this year, but on Monday Tonight is kind of the official switching on of our holiday lights. We already are hearing and receiving phone calls at the city offices of, hey, it's already Christmas, where are the lights? It's kind of lame that you're waiting as late as you're waiting. That's kind of a double-edged sword.

Yeah, turn them on in October and see what you get.

We win for some and we lose for others who chide us for being and turning our lights on before Thanksgiving, but they will be on, on Monday. The library has put together an event on December 9th, kind of a meet with Santa event that will happen, and it will happen actually right after an event entitled Read Early, Read Often, which is essentially a relationship between the City of Orem, JustServe, and United Way, which is a book drive collecting books for children here in the valley. And we're pleased to have First Lady of Utah Herbert here with us to read to kids and to kick off that event. And I understand, Char, we will begin the Santa event shortly after conclusion of that Read Early Read Often event.

Monday, December 9th. But the first event, I believe, is going to be—

The first event is going to be here in the council chambers, and then we will migrate into the library for the remainder of the evening. State Transportation Commission met last Friday in Green River and approved the title transfer of 1600 North from 1200 West to State Street. So Ryan and His staff, engineering staff, are putting kind of the final touches on that transfer and getting survey work done and other requirements associated with that project. I don't know, Ryan, if there's anything that I've left out relative to the project.

No.

So at that point then, UDOT accepts ownership of the road and is responsible for maintenance of the road, including snow removal and the like. Of course, we will obviously be mindful of the road. We're not going to lift our plows up, for example, in the middle of a storm if we're on 1600 North. But that relationship is one where we really do appreciate the help and assistance of the State Transportation Commission. And also our local State Transportation Commissioner, Jim Evans, who Who played a big part in this effort, and also Senator Dan Emert, who really has represented the interests of the city of Orono well in this whole process and this whole effort. So we appreciate Senator Emert for facilitating a financial, essentially, kickstart to the program. That $4 million that we received from the legislature last year will actually be forwarded to UDOT and go towards the costs associated with environmental and engineering and all that that is tied to future expansion of the roadway. On the same theme of transportation, Mayor Brunson and I attended last week the North Lakeshore Study kickoff meeting. This is a MAG-UDOT-initiated effort to envision and have a very broad discussion about the future of transportation in the North County, from Orem all the way up to Lehi, to the west to Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs. There were representatives from all the cities there in attendance talking about the future of everything from obviously transportation in the traditional sense with I-15 and some of the big roads we have, In place, to discussion about transit, to what do we want to see in the future as related to transportation, what are the outcomes that we're shooting for. There are obviously economic outcomes we want to achieve with the transportation plan. There are health benefits we want to achieve. There are community benefits we want to achieve. It was 3 hours of kind of back and forth, participation. I actually thought it was a really good meeting. In relation also to transportation, we have kicked off the central— what is called the Central Corridor Study Alternatives Analysis. That is the proposed transit assessment for North County that potentially envisions a future bus rapid transit line in Utah County that would That would run north-south from Provo all the way up to Lehi and connect to a Point of the Mountain transit facility that would come around the point from Draper. The exact alignment of that road is obviously a point of discussion right now, given what is happening up at Point of the Mountain and the prison site, so on and so forth. But the idea would be that we would have contiguous—

I'm sorry.

Not contiguous Frontrunner, but alternative transit options around the turn of the mountain into Utah County. In the process of doing that, we are also putting together an environment— a request for MAG money for the creation of an environmental process that will be required after the alternatives analysis is completed. about 24 months from now. And so we're working with UDOT and putting that together. There is a 7% local match for a document like that. We anticipate that environmental analysis to be $2 to $3 million. And UDOT has been reaching out to us individually as communities in North County asking if we would contribute to— that local match, and you will see that in the future budget. I'm not talking— I think obviously the match is $250,000, $270,000 across all the communities, so our fair share of that could be $30,000 or $40,000. But in my opinion, well worth the investment if we can generate a $300,000, for example, $350,000 $150 million transit option from Provo to Lehi. We already talked about the UVU Bridge construction, and that is something that is going to take place with limited impact on the I-15 corridor. Cameron explained how it will be built off-site and then transported overnight or a series of nights to its new home, and that is a project that will take about 12 months to complete. And finally, um, I just wanted to let you know that our insurance association, URMA, the Utah Risk Management Mutual Association, is rebranding and changing its name. The new name of the association is URMA.

So we get new t-shirts?

Yeah, we're gonna have to— it used to be UR MMA, and now we are transitioning to URMA. There is a reason.

So much easier.

There is a reason. Under state law and per guidance of the Lieutenant Governor's Office, IRMAA as currently constituted is technically not an association, it's an agency. Under state law. And so we're required— the recommendation is that we essentially rename and repackage ourselves as not an association but an agency. And so prospectively, we will no longer be the Utah Risk Management Mutual Association. We will be the Utah Risk Management Agency. So, Irma? becomes IRMAA. Those of you that have t-shirts or golf shirts, I'm happy to take them back, take them to an embroidery place, and scratch out the additional M.

Might be fun.

But when you hear that IRMAA is changing, just know that the actual organization is not changing, but the name of the organization is changing. That's it.

May I have one question?

Sure.

Are we having a retirement thing for Paul? Paul is elected to just do a department.

To slip into the dark.

Okay.

Yeah, but to let you know, we are having a, a get-together for Sam and for Mark, and we wish them well on their retirement.

Retirement, so from the city council with a yet to be determined date. Yeah, we have we haven't confirmed the date yet.

We were just waiting for today before the wheels get put in motion.

Email Paul, feel free.

Okay.

When's his last day?

What has to happen? It's technically day before Thanksgiving break Tuesday before.

So I wanted to report on a few things. that I'm involved in as well. So I'm on the Mountainland Area Government Regional Planning Committee, which is all the county commissioners and the mayors within the county for planning and prioritizing transportation projects. That group, we actually work with about $80 million and prioritize where that money is going to go. And And so we've redefined how we're prioritizing and putting some new items in there. But that's a very dynamic situation. We want to make sure we cover all parts of the county, not just the biggest parts, and that everybody has areas to work on. Some of the areas that are coming up is Payson is going to have a new interchange. Spanish Fork and Springville are going to have a new interchange north of where Highway 6 is to facilitate that. We have discussions on Provo and Orem as far as any additional exits and entrances on and off the freeway. So a lot's going on there. At our Council of Governments meeting with all the mayors this last week, Laura Lewis, Bren Bybee, and myself presented the Yes. I want to thank you for the discussion that we had with regards to the transit room tax and the restaurant tax receipts, how they are collected, who is paying them, and how they are disbursed. In that discussion, I asked a lot of questions of Commissioner Ivy and Commissioner Lee as to what their prioritization is of how they spend that money. If they could tell us, give us the minutes of the meetings where they've been spending the money, and if they could give us information as to where they're going in the future. And Commissioner Ivey brought up the fact, he said, to be honest with you, it's been a very loose situation. We don't have minutes. We don't have a very good prioritization. And, you know, in American Fork, I can tell you, Mayor Frost is very concerned. They're third in line behind Provo and Orem, and they're concerned over what's going on. So everybody asked that we send that information. I asked for Jamie to request from the county the minutes, the prioritized sheets, et cetera. And so we're waiting to get that, which I don't think we will receive.

But we'll see.

Eric, we did forward to you everything that—

We have, but—

right.

But we don't— we haven't gotten everything we've requested. So anyway, those are areas we're working on. The other one is we had— Jamie and I were both at the Chamber of Commerce Public Policy Committee meeting this last week. And in that meeting, we actually had a very good representation of our state legislators. It was nice to see Francis Gibson, the new Majority Leader in the House, who is from this area, and many others there. We had lots of good discussions on transportation, as far as congestion, as far as how we're going to transport a million more people in Utah County 40 years from now. During that discussion, I had a meeting with one of the legislators who mentioned to Yes. It seems to me that our proposal for changing the form of Utah County government does have a placeholder bill in the legislature. It looks like the bill is receiving favorable comments, and basically what they're going to do is they're going to say we would like Utah County to change their form of government to either a mayor-council form or a manager-council form. Council form, but not to add additional commission members or change how the commission is. So they are going to request that our county government change, and what they will do is put that out for a vote a year from now and let the public decide what form of government. But it'll be one of those 2.

It won't be—

we had it before where there were 5 options. Now it's down to 2. And the legislature is running the show on that. So, just so you're aware on that. I also sit on the executive board of directors for Envision Utah. A lot is going on there. You may have seen a report on education come out, particularly on teacher and teacher salaries a couple weeks ago. Basically, a complete study was done on what it would take to get the teachers we need. Right now we're graduating half as many teachers as are leaving the teaching community. So we have a real problem. And the problem really comes down just to money. And so they did a study as to what it would take. The average starting salaries are $35,000 to $40,000 right now. You have 2 districts in Salt Lake that are at $50,000.

$50,000?

The study shows that if you're at $60,000, you would not be losing those to other employment, and you would be actually having people go to college to become a teacher and go through the process, and we could become—

complete it.

But $60,000 plus benefits works out to $1 billion a year. So that's the other part of it that hasn't been figured out. But anyway, at least everybody knows kind of like what's happening. The other area they've done studies with, we're doing Utah Valley Visioning together with the Chamber of Commerce, all of the Chambers of Commerce, most of the cities, and that will be coming out later next year. But what we're learning is that people's biggest concern are traffic congestion, air, and jobs. And so the question is, how do you take care of that? Now, one thing that Envision Utah has put forward with the legislature several years ago was to do incentives with the major refineries for Tier 3 gas. Any kind of vehicle can run Tier 3 gas, but a new vehicle can run Tier 3 gas at a much higher rate of effectiveness or efficiency. But if we were all running Tier 3 gas, it actually would eliminate 70% of the sulfur that's going into the air, and that is actually the material that is fouling our air and causing us problems. So the reality is, if we were to lower that down, buildings would become the major polluter by 50%, where cars are the major polluter at 50% right now. And we have a lot of companies that come to Utah who are concerned about how clean our air is. So I also sit on the Economic Development Corporation of Utah Board of Directors, and that's one of the big things is the cleanliness of the air. But just to let you know, on that side, 2 big wins are Tyson Foods out in Eagle Mountain and Facebook out in Eagle Mountain. Huge companies. Tyson Foods is, I want to say, 500 employees to 1,000, and Facebook is like 150 employees. But those are really big for the state and are bringing a lot of attention. So a lot of good things happening and a lot of activity.

Thank you.

Anyone have any questions? If not, let's go ahead and adjourn to the council chamber.

Okay.

Test.

We would like to welcome everyone out to our City Council meeting this evening and would like to call this meeting to order. We'd like to begin with a prayer by Alex Nielsen and then a Pledge of Allegiance by Bryce Mella. You want to turn that on?

Okay.

Our dear Heavenly Father, thank you for this day. Thank you for all your wonderful creations. Please bless that we can learn a lot from this meeting and that we can have a safe drive home.

And I say—

and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Amen. Thank you, Bryce. I'm sorry, Alex. And now we'll hear from Bryce.

Will the audience please rise?

Please repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The audience may be seated.

We would like to go over the upcoming events. Tomorrow at noon, we will have a combined Orem City Council and the Alpine School District meeting here at the council chambers at noon, and this is a public meeting. On November 21st, we have the Habitat for Humanity ribbon-cutting of the Burgess home at 4:00 PM. That's 621 South, 1580 West. And on December 4th, we have the UVU basketball Orem City Night, 7 PM at the UCCU Center. We now would like to have a report from the Metropolitan Water District of Orem, and I'd like to ask our Public Works Director Chris Shirkey if he would come up and introduce those who will be reporting.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Chris, maybe you could tell us who you've got here.

Mayor and City Council, as you're aware, we have Steve Brown here, who is our chairman of the Metropolitan Water District of Orem. He is also Russ Brown's son. Russ Brown is here. I'd like to introduce Russ, uh, if you'd like to raise your hand there. Russ Brown has participated with this district for many years, and we're going to speak to that in further detail. I don't believe we have any other board members here tonight, but I'd like to recognize them. We also have Alex Lott. You probably know him as well. He lives in North Orem area. Rick Lewis, myself Liddell Gilman, and Jack Jones. Jack Jones has also been involved with this for many years. The district, the water district, has been incorporated since 1935. I'd like to turn the time over to our chairman, Steve Brown, who would like to introduce some further topics and also introduce Neil Winterton, who will be providing our report tonight for you. Thanks, Chris. The Metropolitan Water Board— its current role is to help work with the city, especially with Chris and Neil, manage the water supply of Orem. They have all the water rights— surface water rights. that are for the city, and then the Orem develops— Orem City develops the wells and operates the wells. As Chris has said, the board is made of 7 members, all appointed by the mayor. And Chris represents the city's interests. We also have the manager of the district, which is Neil Winterton, and he works with Ruthann Ivy, and Ruthann is our secretary.

Thank you.

She's here tonight. She keeps us all in order. We just completed an audit, which I think, Neil, you'll get a copy to the city, and there are no exceptions to the audit. It's a very well-managed board. We have over the years, from time to time, especially when things are going well with the city, we work closely with Neil and Chris and provide support back to the city in the way of well development and also with the development of the water system. I'll turn the time over to Neil to give maybe a more detailed report. I wanted just to— from a personal note, when my father started working with the city and the Metropolitan Water Board, I was 3 years old. I hate to date myself, but he's been involved with the board as an engineer or board member for 58 years. And along with Jack Jones, who I think Jack is probably in that timeframe, they put a system in place that put Orem where they have a very strong water supply as the orchards started to convert into subdivisions. They acquired the water rights from the orchard growers. And so the city has a good supply of storage and surface water in the Provo River, Deer Creek, and Jordan L. From a personal standpoint, it's sort of a little bit difficult because, as of the 31st of December, my father is stepping off the board. And I— I think given the age of Jack and a couple other board members, you'll probably see a turnover in the board members going forward. But it's hard to quantify the contribution that my father and Jack have made to the city as far as not only— and I noticed Roger Dudley was here tonight. Roger developed a lot of subdivisions when we were growing up, but just the vision they had to secure the water supply. Pretty remarkable.

Go ahead.

Yeah, thanks, Steve. It's been an honor and a privilege to work with such outstanding individuals. The audit composed— looked at a lot of things, accounting standards. There was only one problem with the audit and We won't say who it was, but there's one individual at this table that hasn't completed their required board training. So Steve, if you could get that done, we'll have a perfect report on that. So I appreciate everyone tonight wearing their blue shirts. As I look around, well, we've completed 3 here. Everybody over here, it looks like we've got blue shirt in honor of the water. So thank you for representing tonight. Let me take you on a little history tour here of the town of Orem, which was once just called the Provo Bench. In 1876, some people went looking for an additional supply of water that they could feed their farms with. They found some water in the hills up Above what they called the guard quarters. And they dug into the mountainside with some barbaric tools and they found some water. And then they decided that that water wasn't quite high enough to get where they needed it to go. So they went up the hill a little further and dug some more. They dug about 10 feet into the mountain and it took them about 2 or 3 weeks to even just do that. Then it took them 10 years to dig a canal from our current Alta Springs to about 5 miles to service the then group of individuals who pooled their resources together to irrigate their crops. This spring helped Orem, what was once called the Guard Quarter Spring, because there was a lookout there for the early settlers. They since— they eventually changed the name in about the 1890s and created the Alta Ditch and Canal Company with different shareholders. Over the years, different individuals turned over their shares to the city. city or the city bottom. But it wasn't always a happy exchange. There was a lot of challenges associated with that eventual transfer. And the water rights in the Alta Ditch and Canal Company were not fully secured for about 100 years later in about the 1970s. So that started the the ability to grow. I wanted to pay some respects to Russ myself. He actually started working in Orem in about 1957, just after his graduation from college, and he helped Orem design and implement its first water reclamation facility. And since then, The town has grown from 10,000 to what it is today, just breaching 100,000. He's had influence in almost every, if not every, that I'm aware of— every significant water decision that's been made in Orem. Wells 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 in the construction. And the only reason he didn't in Well 1 And 6 is because they were already built when we acquired those. Well 1 was in 1931. Well 6 was by the Fruit Growers Association that we purchased. We then had a decision to make with Jordan Elwater as well. And he was critical in negotiating those, defending water rights, negotiation— negotiating critical agreements with Utah Power and Light, who had water rights, local farmers, and eventually in the creation of the treatment plant, which the Orem voters voted down to have in our own sole treatment facility. And instead, eventually, the district was created that created the treatment facility we have today. So, We appreciate that. He told us he was going to retire at the 1st of December. We reminded him that we have a Christmas lunch, and he said, well, then I'll wait till after the Christmas lunch. And we appreciate that. The district is in good shape financially and helps the city with their— any excess funds that they have. And so we appreciate their contribution there.

Thank you.

The board members are wise individuals who are still making good decisions that will affect residents possibly 100 years down the road. So that's my report.

Thank you. I'd just like to say that this is actually very, very important to have good water, clean water, abundant water. is something not every community has. I've traveled all around the country and been many places, and the water doesn't taste like it does here in Orem. And we have plentiful water supplies. I've been up to the Alta Springs, and it's beautiful where the water just comes— flows right out of the mountain into a containment basin and down a pipeline.

Thank you.

I think we're very lucky and blessed to have the water supplies we have, and I think we can thank Russ and the others on the board for that which they've done. I might mention also that Russ's firm, Rollins Brown and Gunnell, did the survey work for the University Mall when it was first put in place years ago. But thank you to the Metropolitan Board. Steve, did you have any more you wanted to mention?

I think that's it.

Okay.

Well, thank you very much. Anybody else want to say anything on the council? Jamie, did you have any comments? Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much and appreciate the report. We now have our personal appearance portion of our meeting. We would invite those who have signed up to give us their name when they come to the podium. and keep their comments to 3 minutes. So we will begin with Martin Wright and then Phil Murphy.

Hi, my name's Martin Wright. I have a couple of issues that I want to talk about. I've talked about them before. First thing I want to say is the city needs to opt out of House Bill 411. We don't need that. We don't need We don't need to go down the same road that we went with Utopia where we opted in and then it cost millions of dollars to get out. Let's opt out of that whole House Bill 411. Next thing I'd like to talk about is Ameron Condominiums down on 1360 North State Street. This past summer that they redid their parking lot. I don't know if you're aware of that. They redid their parking lot. Had everybody parking on the street. It was a disaster for for a little while. I have a picture here the other night. They set a new rule at their condominiums: you're not allowed to park in the condominium parking lot if your car leaks oil. So now they all park on the street, now becoming a very dangerous intersection to try to turn out of Mountain America Credit Union. Something needs to be done about that. You know, let's put no parking signs up. Let's do something.

Because you—

if you're trying to turn right or left, you can't see any cars past this. If you want to see this. OK, my next one. I'm going to skip one. I'm going to go to this one next. Because this is my favorite. And I have some pictures for you guys to see too.

Sorry.

Okay, the first picture there is a picture of a dog litter bag in my local neighborhood park. As you can notice, it's empty. It's been empty for 2 months. 2 months. Next picture. Light post in park. What's by the light post? Here, do you want to see what's by the light post? It's dog crap. Been there for 2 months. Another doggy cleanup bag thing. Same park. Nothing in it. Same result. Poop on the— poop on the— in the park. Is anybody maintaining the parks in Orem? Lastly but not least is a sign for reserved parking. Does anybody see anything wrong with this sign? It's missing a screw, for heaven's sakes. Don't they carry screws on their trucks to fix a sign so we look like we're not a ghetto? OK, enough said. Oh, and by the way, just for— I don't know if Sam's called in, but just for Sam's peace of mind is you guys still haven't located the planted car in the city that has no license plate or registration that has been parked on a major street for over 6 months. It's still there. You haven't found it. Last but not least, and I want to bring this up because I was running— when I was running for election, is a lady said something about human trafficking in Orem. And I think this is important. I asked her if she had heard anything, and this was her quote: Haven't heard anything yet. As far as NPU is concerned, they think everything is finished. A neighbor living directly across the street from the house—

You'll have to finish.

I finished. I— okay, let's get some things done, please.

Thank you. Okay, we'll hear from Phil Murphy.

Good evening, my name is Phil Murphy. I just want to follow up from the last opportunity which I had to speak to you a little bit about this survey that happened in 19— or excuse me, in 2016. by Y2 Analytics. The mayor indicated that he'd taken the time to read the comments. I just, again, want to encourage the other city council members to, if you can, find that report again, read it, especially the comments from the employees. I think what is pertinent back in 2016 is still pertinent right now. I would hope the city doesn't consider doing another survey. My biggest question about this survey is how much did it cost? What did the city spend on this survey, and what was the plan after the survey to do anything with it? And I think a lot of citizens would like to know that— what was done with the survey and what results have been addressed, improvements have been made— because a lot of the situations that were addressed in that 2016 survey are still current. And if another survey is to be conducted, A lot of the same comments are going to come forth. Unfortunately, by some of the same people, because some of the people who were involved in that survey have left. I know for a fact that there are several agencies in the county that are preparing to hire officers. Several Orem officers are considering other agencies. Again, I would encourage you to find out what we can do to stop anybody leaving from Orem. Empower the chief, empower the right people to use the money necessary to keep those people here if he wants them. That's the chief's decision. I know there's a recent wage survey was completed. I think you'll find everything that we've been talking about is that the beginning officer salaries are fairly comparable or comparable or in the ballpark, whichever you want to describe. But you will see distinct issues with sergeants, lieutenants, and captains not being paid adequately or compensated fairly with other departments. And the STEP program will not address that. So I would encourage you to still have some very good conversations. Look at what can be done. We've been coming Not just myself. Again, I'm not here to cause problems. I'm here to enlighten people and let people know what is going on with the public safety issues in this, in this city. And again, as I said before, this is not just unique to Orem. This is happening statewide. There are some very unique things happening to Orem, and I would encourage you to reevaluate some philosophies that are being directed to the compensation plan of public safety, fire dispatch, and police, and address them and keep these people here. Because I'm afraid in the very near future I'm going to be reminding you a couple more have left. Hopefully not more than a couple, but this is not going to go away and we'll continue to keep coming back.

So thank you.

Thank you. Now hear from James Fawcett and then from Mike Farragher.

Hi, I'm Jim Fawcett, and I'd like to first thank Mayor Brunston, Councilman Spencer, for not pushing forward the resolution for House Bill 411, which is the community Renewable Energy Act. We have people in this community that sit and watch Fox News, and they, they see this New Green Deal, and that's— that got— they wanted to do a resolution for the whole United States. Congresswoman Cortez was behind that, and They— I'm sure these people are just, what? What? Because the expense of it. We live in a conservative community, but this is utopia all over again, just like it was mentioned earlier. This is bad. I listened— I like to do the cyber watching the meetings now over The internet. And I gotta hurry here. The Blue Sky Program. That kinda tells you what people want here. I mean, I got the chance to turn it down. I got it in the mail. I looked at it, and I'm going, nope, not for me. Or you can pay a little bit extra to claim that that electricity coming through your wires is from renewable energy. Thank you.

100%.

Only 1,081 people did that out of 33,121 customers for Rocky Mountain Power. That's telling you they don't want this. But you're going to not— what they did is they, when they did this legislation, they said you had to opt out. Well, you need to send a message back to these people that make the law. Make it opt-in if you're going to make it at all. Don't make it opt-out. That opt-out should be it right there, because there's going to be people who are going to be bit by this. So I hope you reconsider, those who are for it, not to be for it. Shoot this resolution down. This is going to get us into a mess. Contracts. They were talking about this, this, this guy from Rocky Mountain Power was telling you they buy— they not only buy for cheap or get energy for free, but they get paid to take energy because this renewable energy in California, they gotta— they're under contract to get rid of it. Who's paying for that? The people under contract. You're going to put our city under contract.

Thank you.

Don't do it, please. Thank you.

Thank you. Now I'll hear from Mike Ferrer.

Mayor, council members, thank you for your time tonight.

Just—

I wanted to start by thanking the mayor. I was at a city event last night that was put together with the—

Could he state his name, please? He didn't do that.

Mike Farricker.

And I just wanted to express appreciation to the city for the kindness resolution or whatever it is that we're doing. I, I think that's a great thing that our city is doing. Not every city to kind of piggyback off Mayor's comment with the water earlier, has things like that. And, and I think anything that the city can do to help encourage its citizens to be kind to one another is what we need a lot more of in, in our world today. So I thank the mayor for supporting that. I thank the council members for for that. I wanted to thank those who ran in the election. I know that that was a tough thing for everyone. I want to congratulate Debbie, and I want to thank her and Sam, um, and also Jeff, and also Martin for running, and David, Michelle, Terry. I know I'm leaving names off. Spencer and others who ran, thank you for your sacrifices of time and of resources to do that. We know that that's not easy. The other thing I just wanted to say was with regards to the recent discussions about hiring some police officers. I would just implore the council— I, I'm not going to sit here and tell you my position other than that principles need to be considered carefully as we decide these things. I do feel it's important to give our first responders the resources and the funds that they need to serve the city, to meet the needs that our citizens have with the growth we experience. At the same time, I also feel it's very vital that we listen to our citizens. We listen to those who are directly impacted, family members who express very real concerns about people who have served for many years in our city as firefighters and police officers. And so I would hope that we find that proper balance between keeping our taxes low, which we should wear as a badge of honor in the city, but also giving our police officers and first responders the time they— the funds they need.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. I wanted to mention that Councilmember Sam Lentz is not here, and I'm not aware— is he on the line?

Hello. Yep.

Okay, good. Thank you, Sam. Uh, so we will now go to our consent agenda. I'd like to read, uh, some statements and go through it. The consent agenda is a meeting management tool to allow the city council to handle several routine items with one action. Once I have read each consent agenda item into the record, council or staff may request an item to be pulled Off the consent agenda and be considered separately under the next agenda item in the order they are listed. As part of the consent agenda, the City Council, acting as the Board of Canvassers, will certify the 2019 general election results as follows. Those voting for Terry Peterson, 9,858 residents. For Jeff Lampson, 7,995 residents. Debbie Luray, 6,740 residents. Sam Lentz, 6,728 residents. Spencer Rands, 5,547 residents. Nichelle Jensen, 3,644 residents. The 3 candidates with the highest votes received are declared as Orem City Council members. Who are Terry Peterson, Jeff Lampson, and Debbie Laree. With that being said, I would like to make a motion, or we would, as part of the consent, to accept and certify the 2019 City of Orem Municipal General Election and to approve the city meeting minutes of the City Council meeting October 29th, 2019.

So moved.

Is there any desire to pull any item off of the consent agenda for further discussion? Seeing none, we'll proceed with one motion and then a second, followed by a roll call vote approving the 2 consent items. Is there a motion?

Motion to so move to accept the consent items.

Okay, is there a second?

Second.

Okay, we'll kind of— we'll start with Councilmember Seestrand.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Sam?

Aye.

Okay, so the consent items passed. We appreciate that, and we will move on to our scheduled items. So the first one is 9.1. This is a public hearing on an ordinance amending Section 22-11-24E, , and by changing the setback requirements on University Parkway and Main Street in the PD-12 zone. And our presenter is Jason Bench.

Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. Tonight, this change affects the PD-12 zone. As Mayor indicated, it's the southwest corner of University Parkway and Main Street. Just to give you an idea, the Xfinity Yes. ...building on the corner. The Stewarts are the property owners of that building, and they're requesting that they— so if I can show you— let me start the plan. So they own this property right there. They own the old Barber Brothers building that they want to remodel, tear part of it out, and actually build a new building that actually fronts and matches the frontage of that building on the corner. As you can see, when the parkway was redeveloped, a lot of the landscaping— the 40-foot requirement was taken out by the widening project, the lane coming in. And so right now, that building actually touches the corner of the— if you look right there, the actual property line, the corner of that building actually touches the right-of-way. The setback from the right-of-way on that corner is roughly about 12 feet.

Thank you, Mayor, and members of the council.

Good evening. It's my pleasure to be here this evening. I promise this won't take very long. Just as a reminder of where we've been with this project, we started back in October of 2014 in discussions, and those discussions centered upon where do we— and we started meeting with the Woodbury Corporation. We also initiated an art study in May of 2015 to determine In December of 2018, we came before you and introduced that location to you at a work session, and the Woodbury Corporation gave their support in announcing a donation for the project. Since that time, we've continued to hold discussions, negotiations. We're looking into the third-party analysis right now and contacting firms to have that pro forma evaluated.

And the wood—

that are the Hale Centre Theatre Group has been working on fundraising, but they've kind of reached a point in fundraising where they need some kind of support from the city to move forward to show those donors that there is a legitimate project. Just as a reminder, these are a couple of the concepts of what the theatre would look like. This is the upper level floor plan showing the stage, so it would no longer be a theatre in the round, which it currently is. Which lends us to other types of performances. It gives Hale greater flexibility in what they perform and how they use that space. This is a cross-section of the proposed theater. You'll note in the bottom right-hand corner there's also a black box theater component to the facility which would host additional types of performances. See that theater location there on your right, with north being to the left and south being to the right, and where the parking for the theater would be designated. These are just some specs associated with the theater as far as size, parking stalls, number of seats. So significant increase in seats from the current number of around 320 seats. When we came to you in December, we, we let you know there would be a zone change, a street vacation, and some walls would need to be built. We came back to you for that zone change and you approved that. Since that time, the Liberty Corporation has gone in and they've demolished those homes, cleared the site, and they've built that wall as promised along that boundary. They will temporarily be using that space to build their next project for staging, and so they'll be utilizing that—

I don't have any questions. I will have questions when we see the documents come back that you're proposing. Do you guys have any questions?

Um, so their goal is to raise $15 million. Um, let's say they don't quite make it across this. Um, I'm just trying to figure out the $15 million. How hard— how hard would that be?

That's the number that they've told us that they think they can raise, so I would anticipate that that is what we're going to do. Mr. Fisher was there. The theater is here.

Great answer.

Oh yeah, I've heard about you. Do you know a Wes Hickey? And I said, oh, absolutely, I know Wes.

Jeff Fisher with the Hale Center Theater.

He's on—

he seems like a $30 breakdown of the venue.

It doesn't seem like a high cost, and so we anticipate that the theater will be able to pay for Half of that through financing and then the other half through fundraising. So that $15 million represents that dollar amount of raising funds, both with public dollars as well as private dollars.

So how is the fundraising going? Uh, I'm assuming this letter forward, but have you been talking to many donors?

I think he's absolutely As mentioned earlier, many of the folks that we talked to at the grassroots asked us, what's El City doing in the context of this project? And, you know, we've wanted to express to them the city's behind this and that we're working hard to do the things we need to do to put financing in place and so on. So it's actually going well. We have raised about $2 million to date.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments?

Councilmember Seestrand.

While it states the $15 million is somewhat of that threshold, you could go beyond that as well. I mean, if the fundraising was extremely successful and you were able to do even the full $30 million, then does bonding really remain needed?

Absolutely, yes. In fact, if that was the case, that would be wonderful. As a result, we would not have any financing to pay back. We would love to that. But this, uh, in my experience in doing 2 similar projects like this in the other parts of the state, um, this is very, uh, reasonable as far as fundraising is concerned.

Very good, thank you.

You might want to check with the Seastrand Family Foundation.

Okay, thank you, Mayor.

Anyway, uh, so if there's no further comment, um, I would accept—

I'm sorry, Councilor McSweeney. Thanks so much, Gail, for coming. I appreciate you guys. You're a real asset to the community. I do have a few questions. Maybe, okay, you're saying $15 million. What happens if in 2 years, that's what you're projecting, it comes in at $40 million because Because of labor or whatever, uh, do you want the city to pick up that extra $10,000, or how do you want that? What's your vision on that?

No, we, we don't anticipate, uh, changing that, uh, dollar amount. We would have to sit back and look at, uh, what that would mean to resize the theater, um, to accommodate the, the, as far as the dollar amounts that we have. Um, so there's a variety of things that we could do in that situation. My background, Brent, as I've mentioned— by the way, thank you all as well. You guys have been wonderful in this process. You know, at universities, my experience has been that the president of the university says, you know, we wanted to raise $40 million, but we have $30 million, so build a theater that would meet that need, and we'd have to make some modifications to do that. And so that's in essence what we would probably do is just modify the overall plan. So of course, going into it right now, being optimistic, I'm hoping everything works out exactly the way we planned.

And, uh, number, uh, number 2 here on this memorandum, it says the mayor and city council will help. Now, I, I know what that says, but We've got 2 new council members coming on in January.

Uh, are we binding them?

Are we— are they on board with this?

I mean, I, I've never talked to them.

I'm concerned about trying to handcuff future city councils, and, uh, I don't know if this memorandum does that, or, uh, if, if If you reach your goal, if Jamie said we can just bond without bringing it to City Council, I'm a little confused on that. Maybe Jamie can help. Maybe it's best for Greg to approach that, or Jamie.

Well, first, the discussions that we've had with Hale Center Theater, the intent of the language was to make it broad so that there would not be a formal commitment or a specific commitment. On the part of the city at this point, but more of an acknowledgment that we are willing and wanting to proceed and we want to help facilitate. So a definition as to facilitation, as to specific outcomes, is not included in this agreement. Now, with that said, we have had conversations prospectively as to how we might proceed, the manner in which For example, the city would finance that $15 million. But at that point, the discussion, the agreement, the financing would all be subject to the new city council that would be in place at the point of—

at the decision point.

So if the decision point is next year, then it will be representatives that are sitting on the council council at that time. If it's 2 or 3 years from now, it may be another one. So there's not a specific intent, nor does the language bind future councils. Rather, it expresses a willingness to continue the conversation and to work towards this outcome.

Yeah, I didn't have anything to add. I was just going to confirm that I would view this memorandum of understanding as a signal from the City Council that you want to work with Dale to try and bring the theater to fruition, but it does not contain any specific terms as to what might happen down the road. As Jamie said, those are items that would have to be voted on by the council that was sitting at that time. Why do you need Worms memorandum? Why do you need that? I mean, it seems like it's going forward without the city council saying yeah. Ryan's even done a package, finance package.

Why do you need the city?

The main thing is, is as we've talked to donors in the process, they've literally just specifically said to us, um, what's the, the city's role in this process? Are they behind you in this? Are they, um, helping with this? What is their role? And that's what we feel like this MOU helps, uh, donors to see, is that yes, not only are they saying that they're in it, but this is an MOU expressing that they're Commitment is to help us to stay in the world.

So if this is, this is approved, you've got donors tomorrow that say, here's your million bucks to work. Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Are you going to the legislature for money?

Yes.

Is that part of the $15 million?

Um, it would be part of the $15 million that, uh, Councilmember Seestrand spoke about. So that would be the additional element of that. Yeah, okay.

And I, I mean, I know you'll be successful. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind, but I, in the back of my mind, I've lived through campaigns, uh, of Utopia, and, uh, we're still paying $3 million a year for that concern, uh, or debt, and it goes to 2040.

It keeps increasing.

I know we're getting $100,000 dividend a year or whatever it is, but we're still paying a lot of money. Jamie, what is the worst-case scenario?

What's the fallback on this?

Because I don't know if we could use a performing arts building. I don't think we would be able to.

So I guess one of the key reasons that the City of Orem is, I think, critical to this partnership is The city's access to tax-exempt financing, which actually can allow Hale and the project an opportunity to do more with less. And by that I mean, because we can enter into the tax-exempt financing market, we can literally save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, in the financing of the associated debt.

It's tied to this building.

A couple of things that make this, obviously, relationship something that is something I'm comfortable with is first and foremost, we would own the building. So we would actually enter into this relationship with not just our $15 million in debt, but the additional $15 million in contributions that will be brought in. brought to the table in the financing and construction of this building. So right off the bat, we would have 50-plus percent of the project as equity. In addition to that, of course, the relationship we would have with Hale is an exclusive one. So there would be an exclusive right on the part of Hale to operate this facility and If the last few decades of performance are any indication, I feel quite confident that we can meet that debt obligation. In the event we cannot meet that debt obligation, as part of the actual financing, there's a debt reserve fund that would be required as part of this project. So in the event that Hale could not meet its obligation, then there would be money set aside as As part of this financing arrangement.

How much would be used?

It would be—

typically it's a percentage, but it runs a little over a year of debt service payments. And then in addition to that, obviously the city has, at least in the short term, it has CARE contributions that it could draw upon. And then if, if the CARE program were to be renewed, then that obviously relationship could continue if the council chose to do that. But yes, and then at the same time, we would have an asset that potentially would be marketable. Now, I will also represent that having a theater in the configuration that they are looking to do now is much more, I guess you could say, marketable or favorable than a theater in the round. There's a little more flexibility that's tied to it. In addition to that, the relationship that we have with Woodbury Corporation and the fact that it would be on the University Place campus would make this property exclusive of the building, uh, very, very desirable property as that obviously campus continues to grow. So I think there are a number of factors that suggest this is not a utopia. This is not a Midtown Village. Yes, there is risk associated with every financing arrangement that the city has, whether it's utility debt or telecom debt or money that we have set aside for, on behalf of, for example, construction of new facilities. However, I do think there are a number of checks and balances that protect the city's interests in the short term and in the long term. And frankly, I think the experience that we are seeing up in Sandy, where demand for tickets tied to the arts and tied to an amenity much like this, but to a different scale, suggests that demand is very, very high in the county for this kind of opportunity. I think you have sold-out shows almost every show today, if not every show, given certain shows. And look at the facility that they're currently operating in comparison to what this would be. My understanding is you can't use CARES money for more Well, this is a facility that the city would own, so I would have to defer that question to Rick.

You can use CARES money for city-owned arts facilities.

But would we—

Where's Woodbury's in on this? I know they're— you're locating there, but are they—

should they be signing this?

I don't know. So Woodbury's are executing their own letter that is addressed to the City of Bay Hill that says that they've set aside the land for the project, and they're holding that purchase price of that land and the parking right based on pricing for from 2 to 3 years ago, so they've actually kind of locked it in and they're not escalating it with the current market. So they're, they're helping us in that matter, and that's how they're showing us their support with that letter. They would be part of that agreement. It would be a 3-way agreement between the City of Woodbury and the theater when, when it's finished. It's— it'll be a very significant agreement, and so we I've been working on that. It's, it's just take— it's taking a lot of time, and this is just a quicker method to help Jeff get the support he needs to keep the project moving. Thank you.

Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong, but Woodbury's also pledged financially to participate in this facility?

Yeah, in fact, last December they came out with a $1 million contribution that's connected to the project as well.

Is that cash money or Land purchase.

That's in addition to the variety of things they're doing, as Ryan just mentioned, in reducing prices for the land and so on. So that's cash.

Councilmember Spencer. Yeah, thanks, Jeff and Cody. Um, I have a question on—

you sent an email, Jamie, about how this mirrors the Sandy City So just if you refresh my memory, you know, that, that was an $80 million project and the city did $42 million in financing.

But correct me if I'm wrong, that was a bond, correctly, that was on the ballot for the citizens to vote on? No, it was not.

It was actually a lease revenue bond. So it was not a decision of the voters. It was a decision of the city's And is that—

would that be referable?

Uh, yes, it would be.

Okay.

Um, so there is no time frame on the $15 million?

Internally we do. We have a time frame set between 18 months to 3 years. We hope we can have that— those funds. And we believe with this MOU we can pick up the pace on that. So I'm Optimistically, I'm hoping within the next 2 years.

And I am concerned about— I was concerned about binding future councils, but I would assume that would be the vote down the road when it came up.

Also, I do have an issue with Utopia and how if this goes into recession and we have a problem, we're still liable for that payment.

And right now, if you look at Utopia, that's $3 million. We did it in police fire, water, road, and sewer, and they have not had a problem to date.

So to me, yes, it does— it's not the same, but you're still on the hook, and that concerns me. And you know what, while I, I, uh, I don't disagree, there's a risk associated with any financing opportunity.

I would say nature, I would If I could add to Councilman Spencer, according to our financial advisor, during recessions and downturns, theaters actually continue to perform because the general public needs a release and they continue to spend money on theaters. So they're not as impacted as other businesses are. So as long as the theaters— So you're trying to tell me that your sales did not go down in the recession, they went up?

Yes.

Councilor McDonald? A couple of comments. First of all, I concur. When people in a recession, they stay local, they can't afford big vacations, they eat at McDonald's more often and Applebee's less often or whatever, but that's a separate issue. I have wrestled with the moral obligation of a city council not acting and also of acting of binding a future city council. But we were elected to work through the end of our terms, whenever those are, and not to punt to future city council people.

So I think we should move forward. I think we have the moral obligation to move forward.

And while there is no definition of exactly when they'll reach their money, there isn't a defined definition of what help means.

We commit to help, and in good faith we want to do all we can to help, but we're not binding future city councils to anything around that help.

And help could be good luck, and you expect more than that, and we anticipate giving more, but we're not binding future city councils. I would also think it's foolish to compare this to utopia, an asset buried in the ground that That's nothing compared to most buildings are financed with 20 to 25% down. If we get a 50% down payment, I'm pretty confident we can do tenant improvements to make it usable in some other stores. You don't have to look very far to look at a grocery store turning into a fitness center or other things that you would not have envisioned. And the outside box would fit. There'd be parts you wouldn't use.

But most buildings are financed with substantially less down, so I'm pretty confident being able to find an investor who would buy this and move forward.

So that part doesn't concern me too much.

And again, we want to move forward, and the fact that this is an MOU and, and not a commitment on both sides—

we want you to have the flexibility to move forward, we want you to be successful, and this will help you be successful. I think it's a small price right now. And if things don't go well or don't go how the future city council thinks it should have gone, because all of us will have been up for reelection by the time this likely happens in 2 years, that city council can determine, you know, you didn't do quite as much as we thought, or the price did go up to $40 million and you didn't raise enough. So to me, this is a broad outline.

It's certainly not a prenuptial agreement.

I think that's a good point.

This is a broad outline of what we hope to do in the future.

And like anyone else who has an ORM address, we want you to be highly successful.

And if this can help you be successful, I, I lend my support to it, knowing that I'm not committing the city to anything today other than that abstract word of help. And we want you to be successful.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Mimi, can you speak to the West Valley Health Center? I know that when Health Center moved to Sandy, they, um, I believe they own that building now. Can you just talk a little bit about that?

So the West Valley facility was financially structured in pretty much the same way as the Sandy facility and potentially the Warren facility. financing was tied directly to a lease arrangement. When, based on the success of the theater, when the lease expired and the building was paid off, then Hale Center Theater, Sandy, or at the time West Valley, made the decision to migrate to Sandy. So in terms of, you know, financial security, the obligations that the theater had in West Valley. They met those obligations with West Valley City and thereafter made a decision to relocate from West Valley to Sandy. And by all accounts, obviously, it looks like it's a very good decision for Hale Centre Theatre. At the same time, the city— West Valley City is the proud owner of that building free and clear that it's currently marketing to other users, whether it be a potential, uh, new theater or any other use. I will represent, though, that the location of the West Valley facility is different than, for example, the Orem facility, where we are in very close proximity to the center and the hub of the county, so to speak, in terms of retail, a growing business community, obviously more residential housing. That dynamic is not present in West Valley, and so while they have not been able to lease or to sell that building as of yet, I do anticipate in the future that they will. But from a financial perspective, they're not out anything as a result of the arrangement that we entered into.

Thank you.

Councilmember Spencer? Yeah, so with this memorandum of understanding, We're not tying citizens or the city to anything.

I mean, yes, you as a council are expressing an intent to help and work with Hale Centre Theatre to achieve their goal of building a new facility. You're offering your support by way of resolution, but beyond that, this is not a binding agreement. It does nothing but, as, as Councilmember McDonald said, or our City Attorney Greg Stevens, you're just lending your support to this effort and to this process. Now, specifics of a relationship would come later, and there would be very specific definition as to expectations, how the relationship would work. If in fact we are going to turn dirt on a facility, this would be a very, very large agreement where expectations and parameters of the relationship would be explicitly detailed. At that point, yes, there would be a binding relationship that the city would enter into with the party in construction of a facility. Similar to other arrangements that we've made in the city with, for example, other development agreements where on occasion, for example, with the PD zone, a developer comes in and is looking to do something very specific, and we bind the developer to that, to those specifics by way of agreement, and he or she signs off on that agreement.

And you—

we as a city sign off on that agreement, where we essentially, uh, agree to terms that will define the relationship prospectively.

I, I would suggest that what we are talking about here is not that.

What we are talking about in the future by way of agreement is exactly that.

Thank you.

Jeff, a question for you. You had mentioned that the Woodburys are looking at a donation of $1 million and that the MOU will help facilitate that. It's my understanding you have a couple of other donors, without naming them, that are also wanting to donate to the new Hale Center Theater. Could you verify that and how much they're looking at?

Yeah, so there's another million dollars that basically is waiting for clarification on the participation of the city.

Second.

I appreciate that. Any other questions or comments? Yeah, I would entertain—

I've got a comment.

Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, Sam.

So I think within the popular vein of Hi, I'm one of the Utopia team. I can see examples of what not to do. I just wanted to point out the first decade essentially of Utopia, we struggled because things did not go nearly as well as what people had hoped. And, you know, they didn't have decades of history to go off of. They were kind of flying in the dark in the early days. And once we had some data and understood the market better, We were able to recalibrate and, you know, get that project back on track. We're now— instead of our debt curve going up, it's now going down, even though, you know, we're finishing out construction of that network, making it available to the entire city. And in this case, Hale Center is familiar with our market as well as anybody. They've been here for decades. If they were not confident that this was going to be successful, There's no way they would be taking this risk because frankly their risk in this situation is much, much higher than the city's risk. And you talk about not just the dollar amounts but the benefits to quality of life and economic development that come with that. It might be difficult to put into dollar figures. I think there are probably analysts that either have or could do that, but in my mind this is much bigger than Okay, thank you, Sam.

Mayor, excuse me, but, uh, Councilmember McDonald's got a family emergency, and so he stepped out, but he just did dial into Okay, system.

So it'll be available for the room. Okay. Yeah.

Councilmember Seestrand.

I'm ready to make a motion, Mayor, if you're ready.

I've been ready for a half hour. I thought you had more comments.

No.

Okay, go ahead.

I just want to say I have long been a big supporter of the arts and the care tax and the, and the major, uh, organizations we have in the city that really add And the quality of life of our residents.

I love what the theater does.

I love what the Health Center Theater does. I think we should be wholeheartedly in support of not only keeping Health Center Theater in Warren, but helping them to thrive in a way that is a proud moment for the city of Warren. Mayor, I would vote to— or I would motion to authorize to allow you to sign the memorandum of understanding with the Health Center Foundation.

Is there a second?

Second.

Okay, uh, we will go ahead and start, um, with Councilman Seestrand.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

I just want to make sure, Jamie, to say once more we're not binding any other councils with this.

Um, I know it looks like we're going to spend a lot of time with finance packages I will offer my collective no in cooperation with Greg. Okay, um, I do have a problem with number 2, but I want the Hill to do the best they can.

Okay, Sam? Aye.

Okay, Tom?

Aye.

Okay, all right, uh, the ayes are in the affirmative. The motion passes.

Appreciate it, Jeff.

Thank you, Paul.

You bet.

Thank you, Ryan.

Thank you.

We'll now go on to the city manager. Do you have any items?

No, thank you.

I covered my items in our work session.

Okay.

I would accept a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Okay.

Thank you, Sam and Tom.