City Council · 2022-08-02

Test, test, test, 1, 2, 3, test.

We'd like to welcome everyone here tonight. We appreciate all of you coming out to this special City Council meeting. We're going to start out with a an invocation and a pledge. And we've asked Ada Wilson to do the invocation and Sissy Rasmussen to lead us in the pledge.

So, Ada.

Our Father in heaven, how grateful we are to thee for our lives and for this Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr.

Superintendent.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you, Mr.

Superintendent, for the privilege it is to meet in the process of self-governance. We're so grateful for the beautiful community in which we live, and especially for this occasion on which we will be discussing the education of our children and acknowledging the needs that they have. We pray that thou would help us to have softened hearts. Help us to have forgiving hearts. Help us to be able to express apologies where apologies are warranted. We pray that the words we say and do At this pulpit tonight will be words that we would be proud of if our children were here with us, that they would be instructed in what it looks like to dialogue in a civil and productive manner. We're grateful for the Those who have consented to lead us, we're grateful for the greatness in their hearts, for their willingness to make these sacrifices that they might serve our community. We pray thy blessings upon them. We pray that thy spirit will dwell upon them, that they will be directed by that Spirit. We thank thee for our families and for the purpose that they give to our lives, and pray now that our offering tonight might be acceptable to thee. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Thank you. Sister, would you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Would the audience please rise?

Ready, begin.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. So tonight our, our meeting is a little bit different, as this is a special City Council meeting. We're going to have personal appearances. And we started this with a City Council meeting a couple months ago. And then since then we've had 3 large open educational council meetings. And now tonight we're going to vote on the results of all that.

Oh, sorry.

Can everyone hear that okay?

Okay.

All right, now, just to get organized, because we announced in the last public meeting We're going to have 22 people on each side, 22 for, 22 against. I think we'll just line up the same way we did last time with those.

I believe it was 4 over here and against over here.

And so, was it the other way? Okay, which way was it? For and against, just to have continuity, for and against.

Okay.

Now we've got these lists, and there's, there's over 100 people that have signed up to speak. But what we decided to do to make this as effective as possible. Is for each side to decide amongst themselves who those 22 people would be. And so I don't know if, if you've kind of— have you figured that out? Okay. Okay, why don't we have all those that signed up on the for side go over here, and all those that signed up against on the against side over here. And if you could work out, um, you know, who you want those 22 people to be. I don't Okay, are we ready? Has everyone sorted out in the order that you're going to speak? You're ready?

Ready.

Okay, let's, let's call this to order.

Okay.

And then we've got— okay, and then, and then Steve Downs from the city will keep track of what's going on, and when we get to 22. And once we're to 22, that's when we'll end. So just make sure that you've got everyone that you want in there. All right, let me read this. Time has been set aside for the public to express their ideas, concerns, and comments on items on the agenda. Those wishing to speak are encouraged to show respect for those who serve the city. Comments should focus on issues concerning the city. Please limit your comments to 2 minutes or less. And when you come to the microphone, just state your name and which city you're from. You don't have to give your exact address. Okay, we're going to start. So with that in mind, we'll need everyone to Be as quiet as possible. And we'll start with our former mayor, Mayor Brunstad, on this side. Thank you, Mayor, City Council, Richard Brunstad, forum. In March of 2004, a city councilor similar to what we have here today listened to a feasibility report study on a project that they were planning on doing. The report was on Utopia. The report stated that the revenues would exceed the costs and they should move ahead. In reality, what happened was the cost exceeded the revenues to the tune that the City of Orem found itself in $9 million—

$90 million of debt that we are still paying off at $3 million per year and will up until 2040.

In 2008, the city of Orem and others experienced a recession. Our revenues went down by 25%. We could not afford to pay for the police and fire. In 2009, the Jordan School District decided to split and did a feasibility study that showed that it was workable. The problem was the costs were much higher than they were led to believe. $33 million, they went into debt. And property taxes went up by 20%. This year they're asking for a 26% increase in property taxes, and the after-school fees this year are doubling.

So for like football, it's up to $300 for a student to play.

The environment in our community and in our nation last year was such that our inflation rate was 2.5%.

Our Gross Domestic Product was positive for 4 consecutive quarters, and things were well.

Today, life is much different, vastly different.

Our inflation rate is almost 10%.

We've had 2 quarters of Gross Domestic Product that is negative. We are in a recession. I would ask you to vote no. This is not the right time. The costs are too high.

The environment is too strenuous.

And we, we should not move ahead.

Thank you.

Thank you. Evan Cox from Orem. I'm also speaking on behalf of my father, David Cox. I taught elementary school at Orchard, Lehigh, and Segalili Elementaries. I have grandchildren attending Orem schools and Lehigh schools, so I have a vested interest in what happens for both sides. I have stage 4 cancer, and with only a few months left to live, I've been asked, why are you expending your limited energy and time left to advocate for an Orem School District? My response: how can I face the forefathers of this nation or my pioneer ancestors in the next life if I cannot stand for creating an Orem School District? They both broke away from powerful nations to start their own. They did not let fear govern them. Local citizens formed schools to educate their children before this country No group of people had done this. Public education was created by those who laid the foundation of this nation. And when the pioneers came to Utah, they built schools in the, in their poverty before any other building. They believed in the freedom to choose the right way for themselves as individuals and as communities. They made this nation, settled this Intermountain area, and developed it into what we are today. There's a tremendous amount of research that shows how beneficial more modestly sized districts are. which I've compiled on my website at smallerschools.org. Orem will have almost 15,000 students. That size will put them in the largest 5% of school districts in the nation, bigger than most in Utah. The other districts can do it too, so Orem can. Since the last time this was considered in 2006, Orem taxpayers have paid millions in taxes and seen pennies in return. The purpose of the study was to determine if it was financially feasible. The answer is a resounding yes.

Thank you.

Despite best efforts from teachers and administrators who care very much, Alpine is too big to care adequately for all those— all the students. We cannot wait for Alpine to split. Evidence says they will not, as they have actively opposed these in the past. The mayor and city council have the responsibility to care for Orem and its citizens. The study was a great start. Now follow it up and let the citizens of Orem vote on it. I call on you to allow Orem citizens the chance to determine their own future.

My name is Sissy Rasmussen from Orem, and I volunteer in my kids' schools, and I'm a founder of the group Stronger Together. In February, I first opposed the idea of an Orem School District. I knew from previous studies and publicly available data that the idea was expensive. I sensed it would be incredibly divisive, and it has been. For months you've pushed the idea, let the voters decide. That's risky. By putting this on the ballot, you're telling us that you accept a scenario of increased taxes, future bonds that will also increase taxes, diminished services, and an uncertain future. Though the numbers presented by Stronger Together, Alpine School District, and the DEC study may differ, the result is always the same. Increased taxes. By putting this on the ballot, you're also telling us you're willing to accept the worst-case scenario, tax increases between 30 to 40%, just to maintain current levels of services and not including any startup costs and/or improvements. By putting this on the ballot, you tell us that you approve of spending even more money on a plan that didn't even measure resident interest first. You spent $30,000 for a company that never conducted a feasibility study before. Approved $50,000 for a PR firm and at least $120,000 for an appointed attorney whose main job has been to work on this. This is an irresponsible use of taxpayer money. I'm dismayed by the energy, time, and money that has already gone into this while other city issues are neglected. I'm heartbroken for the teachers who are overwhelmed by the stress of this issue. I'm frustrated because this appears to be nothing more than a chance to get back get even with the district for past grievances. To use our schools as a pawn in this game is disrespectful to Orem parents, school employees, PTAs, low-income residents, seniors on fixed incomes, and young families who are too busy to pay attention to city issues. I believe that you want the best for Orem like I do, and this isn't it. Please vote no tonight.

Mr. Mayor, City Council members, the ref is back. I'm a former teacher from Southern California and secondary education. I taught in 3 school districts.

2 of them were smaller districts, Burbank Unified Schools and William S. Hart, which is up by Magic Mountain.

I taught one very large district, one of the largest districts in the country, the Los Angeles Unified School District. If I had time, I could tell you stories. Um, with that varied experience, it gives me the distinct advantage of knowing the pros and cons of a smaller district versus a larger district and why a smaller district in our city is the better way to go.

I believe larger districts have less control. Smaller districts have more control.

That's the bottom line. Like it or not, that's been my experience.

This decision—

gotta watch the clock—

this decision of whether or not Orem should create their own school district is a decision that we, the citizens of Orem, should decide upon, not the Alpine School District and citizens of other surrounding communities.

Thank you.

And of the tax dollars paid by Orem citizens that are allocated for education, 100% of those funds, not 17%, should stay in Orem for our schools and for our children.

Why hasn't—

a big question here— why hasn't ASD fixed the schools in Orem that have been deemed is not being earthquake safe. That's just an ongoing issue.

It hasn't been solved yet.

We're building other schools.

We, the citizens of Orem, need and want our own school district.

Vote to put this on the ballot so that we, the citizens of Orem, can decide what's best for our children.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Becky Buckley. I'm a resident of Orem and I've lived here for 21 years. I'm entering my 16th year as a teacher in Alpine School District. I am— I teach at Centennial Elementary and taught at Star Park prior to that. I've also spent years serving on the PTA and SCC at my children's schools. As a teacher, I'm asking you to consider a bigger picture of this proposal. Education is more complex and involved than just one or two issues. Think of what is best for the students. The good things happening in Alpine are being pushed aside and overlooked. These things support students and teachers. These include technology grants to, to narrow the digital divide. Many of our schools are one-to-one devices. Innovative learning coaches who support teachers and students using technology. It's important for children to learn how to use technology effectively and appropriately to become responsible and contributing members of society. Professional learning community coaches who work with teachers and individual students to improve instruction and learning, particularly with literacy and math. District-wide opportunities to collaborate with other teachers. School counselors, psychologists, and social workers to help struggling students and teachers receive the support they need to thrive. Subject-specific professional development. Partnerships with BYU to educate and integrate new teachers, professional learning communities where teachers weekly look at students' data and best practices to improve learning. These things take years to replicate and funding to develop them. Many of them have been developed in Alpine School District in the last 10 to 15 years that I've seen as a teacher in Alpine. Our children, teachers, and community are still recovering from the pandemic. Pulling these services and others out from under them will cripple their education further. How can Orem District guarantee these services that already exist without significantly raising taxes? Taxes will go up, services will go down, teachers will leave, and I ask you to vote no tonight. My name is Kathy Minster, and I do live in Orem. 38 years ago, there was a problem in our elementary school, and the oldest of my 6 children— there were overcrowding in the classrooms. Myself and some of the parents were very concerned, and we went to Alpine School District. We gave our concerns. Alpine School District, in return, said Sent out a representative. Parents were invited. We all gave our concerns. They listened. They actually acted like they cared. They gave us some feedback telling what could and couldn't. But then they took it back to the board, and we got a new teacher to make a 4th-5th split so that the— we could have smaller. We didn't know if we were going to get it, but the kindness that was shown us was so wonderful. Fast forward 35 years. And another thing comes up, and we go to the board, and I was part of it as we went to the Alpine School Board trying to save the neighborhood school of Hillcrest. And that's where all 6 of my children went. We lost, and that's not the thing. I've lost and I've won throughout my life, and when I lose, I rebound and go on, and when I win, I I try and be better for it. But we did lose. But the thing that sticks in my mind is how we were treated. We were treated so poorly, and the opposing side was treated wonderful. We were treated— even our own representative from Orem did not look up from her paper to look in our eyes as we talked. I left very angry. But Since then, I have stopped and I have let that go because I thought, those poor board members, they've got so many, many cities. How can they handle it all? I come from growing up on— Please, for the kids.

Mr. Mayor and members of City Council, my name is Paul Thompson. I'm a resident of Orem. I'm opposed to voting this November to create an Orem-only school district. The study completed by the DEC consultants is flawed. Neither one of the consultants has had direct experience with Utah school finance. School finance is complicated and sometimes difficult to interpret accurately. report deserves a review by a third party of unbiased professionals who are experts in Utah school finance. In the meeting on July 28th, the Orem feasibility study, one of the consultants said there are 6 single-school city school districts in Utah.

What he didn't say is that 2 of those districts have decided in the past that they were too small and tried to combine with another district.

Those 2 districts are Logan and Ogden. In both cases, the attempt to combine were rejected by voters of the county districts with whom they were hoping to combine.

The Logan District tried more than once to combine with Cache, and the county rejected the proposal.

Once you become a single-city district, it's extremely hard, if not impossible, to correct the mistake. The Salt Lake City District is a single-city district. In the 1980s, they had 4 high schools.

Enrollment declined so much the district concluded they could no longer support 4 high schools.

After a painful process, they decided to close down South High. It was a very painful procedure, and the residents of the high school area have been upset with the superintendent and the school board ever since. I believe Orem has a similar problem. That if you create a city— Orem only district, you've got 3 high schools in a city that can only support 2. Provo has more high school students in their district, or has more students in their district than Orem. They have 2 high schools. Orem has 3 high schools, and if 750 of the students in those high schools are from other cities, I encourage you to vote against voting on this in November.

My name is Carrie Sigwa.

I live in Orem.

I have served in the PTA and at my children's school for over 20 years and have been here for over 25. A few months ago, I shared my experiences about an issue at Mountain View High School and the process we went through that led to a federal investigation. by the US Department of Education Office of Civil Rights. In that statement, I made a request to you members to please consider putting a vote on the November ballot regardless of the feasibility study's results to provide a safe place for residents to voice their desires without fear of retaliation. Currently, 2 out of the 6 ongoing OCR investigations within Alpine School District are for retaliation. Our parent group has faced many types of retaliation since filing a complaint with Alpine School District and OCR 2 years ago, one of which a counselor and administrator at Mountain View decided that my hard-working son was not worthy of receiving a well-deserved scholarship to this, uh, college of his choice because his mom filed the complaint. Gratefully, Rob Smith stepped in when I called. Not everyone has a get-out-of-retaliation card with the business administrator of the school district, and they have lost essential student benefits Because of retaliation. Tonight you have a huge decision to make. It does not matter if you are for or against a split. It doesn't matter if your constituents are for or against the split. All of that is irrelevant tonight. The only thing you will be voting on is what every single person in this room wants, and that is our voice. For over 2 decades, residents have begged for their right to vote on this issue. Will you deny us our constitutional right to vote, or will you make history and be the first city council to anonymously vote to give your constituents the opportunity to exercise their right to vote for Orem's future in a safe environment without fear of retaliation? What do you want to be remembered for? Taking our rights away to vote, or giving us an opportunity to voice our desires on the 2022 ballot?

Thank you.

Thank you. My name is Lori Forsyth. I'm a resident of Orem and opposed to leaving the Alpine School District. I don't know if there's a single person in this room that hasn't already made up their mind, but perhaps someone in the audience. So here goes. One question that has been raised about the potential split is, why the rush? When pressed, officials have indicated that they favor leaving the school district before an education bond is issued so Orem wouldn't have to pay a share of that debt. I can see why some would favor that, but I'm concerned that the best way to describe the outcome would be out of the frying pan and into the fire. The consultants have done their best to make estimates and projections about unknowns and have been optimistic that financial and other challenges resulting from a division could be solved through shared service agreements. But predictions are difficult, and we don't need to rely on them. We can examine the actual results of the formation of the Canyon School District, which split from Jordan. That division was also predicted to save communities money. The process, which everyone optimistically thought would go smoothly, ended up costing— the former mayor said, gave a figure of $33 million. The figure I've heard is $59 million. And to date, no shared service agreements have been made. The Canyons superintendent sought agreements with Jordan and none could be reached. He sought service agreements with other districts to no avail. Canyons instead had to build their own district offices, their own bus garage. They had to develop their own information technology. technology infrastructure, their own facilities to service students with disabilities, etc. Several of the statistics put forward in the report implied that Alpine School District spends too much money on administration when compared to spending on instruction. In fact, Alpine spends a larger percentage of the budget on instruction than smaller districts are able to do. Let's also remember the $59 million spent on an acrimonious district division. None of that money went to educating students, but we can certainly learn quite a bit from that amount and be wiser because of it. A split could make sense in a few years, but one city going it alone in a rush— let's not do that to our kids.

City Council members, My name is Brad Dahl. I am a father, a grandfather, and a perpetual troublemaker.

And I gotta say that in this kind of—

I love these kinds of meetings. There's something wrong with me.

The kind of energy and the passion we have here is amazing.

And I appreciate those on both sides stating their points so clearly and forthrightly.

For me, the question is very simple.

We've talked a lot about, you know, different things, but the question in my mind is what is the right size for a school district. Now, I grew up in, in Idaho.

My school district was, was 1/5 the size of Orem, and we did just fine. We didn't have all the services and everything, but we had a great school district.

We had an amazing education.

The school district to the south of me was even smaller.

You've heard a lot about finances this evening, and I understand that, but the fact is, is I would ask you to look at school districts around the state that are smaller than forum would be, and there's plenty of them out there. Are they swimming in red ink? Are they buried in high taxes?

I very seriously doubt it. I have not looked at the data, so I may be wrong, but I, I very seriously doubt it. But the fact is, education is the most local thing we have.

This is not my water pipe running out the house.

This is not the road in front of the house. This is my kids in my house, the most precious, important asset that I have on the face of this earth, and I want the very best for them.

And I believe in my heart and in my core that the best government is the government closest to the people, and that should, that should prevail nowhere more than in my school district.

I want that local, right there in my community school district for my kids, my grandkids, and everybody else's kids and grandkids.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council. My name is Erin Merkel. I have lived in Orem for 8 and a half years. And I'm the mother of 5 children. My oldest is at Canyon View, and 3 attend Orchard. My baby will be in kindergarten next year. To say that I'm personally invested in the success of the Orem schools for a long haul is an understatement. I am a hairstylist by profession, and in my line of work I listen. I have been listening to the previous meetings. I've been listening to what my neighbors and other Orem residents And I have been listening to teachers. From what I have heard, I've formed an opinion that Orem should not form its own district. We will lose so many amazing teachers. In my time here in Orem, we have attended Northridge, Windsor, and now Orchard and Canyon View. My kids have had the enormous benefit of the fantastic teachers and admin at all of these schools. 3 of my kids have IEPs and have been treated fairly and with love. What a great disservice to them and all the kids on an IEP or other special considerations, or even just the Gen Ed kids, if the teachers were scared for their livelihood. And they are. If we broke off, an Orem-only district would be unstable and tenuous at best. I keep hearing over and over again that teachers will not work for an Orem-only district. ASD offers concrete security. Another area of concern I have is making sure kids will still receive their services. DEC said those services could continue through shared service agreements with other districts. Instead of accepting that that was outside of the scope of their study, we need a concrete plan about how we can make sure that all children's needs are being met. What would be the point of forming an only— an Orem-only district if Orem can't provide for the needs of Orem kids and Orem teachers? Please vote no for an Orem-only district. My name is Jody Hassan, and I am an ARM resident. When I started in ASD, my son was kindergarten, and he went out to me one night and he said, Mom, do you think I'll ever learn again? And that kind of took me by surprise. I was like, what do you mean? Well, upon prodding more and asking more, my son was very very smart for his age. He was reading novels by the time he was in kindergarten. He was being left behind. He was not the status quo. He was in a classroom full of 37 students, so therefore the teacher was overwhelmed and could not help him. I have since met many teachers and many students who have also shared the same experience of which I have had. ASD is just too big. It cannot help those unique students who are either Above or below, they can only help the status quo. Students get left out. Many students also shared this experience with me as I went and toured schools and visited the schools where students felt like they weren't cared for, they weren't important, no matter how much their teacher told them they were. They didn't feel that because they were in a classroom of 37 or more students in some cases. We just heard from ASD that student class sizes will be raising. What does that mean? It means that students will be catered to who meet the status quo. They will not be catered to for other needs. Teachers are stressed out. They have so much to do. They have so much they have to consider. So they are not feeling supported from their district. I have a personal story from a teacher. She wrote to me. She said, I am scared to speak out against my coworkers. I have not felt supported by Alpine School District. I feel like I'm overworked and ignored by ASD. My students are just numbers. ASD is too big, too wasteful with teachers, and teachers have been scared by the lies that have been spewed at this time. So that's from a teacher. Geneva roof is an example. ASD decided they'd replace the roof and then decided to demolish the school. ASD is too big. They don't understand numbers. They don't understand what's going on. They're just too big. Please let us vote. It's our constitutional right. Hi, my name is Sarah Hacken. I am your school board representative for the east side of Orem. I represent 13 schools. 18,000 people voted for me as for school board, and I take that very, very seriously. I have put over 7,000 miles— I average almost 2,500 miles a year. In one 3-year period, I put 7,000 miles on my car. I have visited every school many, many times, and I'm here to tell you that Alpine School District gives support to those schools that only a large district can give. And I will give you one example. Our high schools in Orem are the 3 smallest schools— high schools in Alpine School District. They are so small that they do not generate enough FPUs from the state To fully fund a program. That means that Alpine School District has given them extra teachers every year for quite a number of years. This coming year, Orem High is getting 6 extra— 6 extra teachers. Now ask yourself, if they did not get that support from Alpine, what 6 teachers would they cut? That's the entire math department, the entire English department. They're not going to cut that. But what programs are they going to cut? Are they going to do damage to our state championship football team? I don't think so. Are they going to do damage to the arts, to music? Where would you cut 6 teachers? And that is also true of each of our other Orem high schools. These are tough decisions. But right now, Alpine School District is giving them those extra teachers. A small school district will not have that option. In addition, I want to call your attention to the fact that last year during COVID the graduation rate at Mountain View was 92%, at Orem High was 94.74%, and at Timpanogos it was 91%. These are great schools, but they need great support, and I don't think they'll get it from an Orem School District. My name is Greg Harwell.

I live in Orem, been here since '79. I don't think we should have this so much about us versus them. It's been that way for months.

I think for me, I support our current Alpine School District teachers, our school board. I'm grateful for their service like yours.

And I also support, though, the mayor and the city council on the feasibility study. So we, Orem citizens, have the option to decide if an Orem school district is better. My neighbor, her name is Susan, in her early 40s, came up to me a couple weeks ago and said, I come from out of state. We have school districts in almost every school city. This is 100,000 people. She's just wondering why this is such an issue. Well, for me, my view is this is a huge valley, huge school district, and I think it's too big. I think we need to let the information come out and put it to vote. I've studied the feasibility study. I've studied their side, our side. It's about the kids. There's great truths coming out here, so let's put it out to a vote. Why, why be afraid to put it out to a vote? School districts have— I mean, excuse me, the Orem city councils have done this before. So anyway, there are only a few hundred people here, maybe a few hundred or a thousand even know about this, really. You know how many people are watching on YouTube?

Not much.

So let's get it out there and let the people in Orem know about it instead of so much control here.

Let's get the information about that great feasibility study, whether you like it or not.

shot me.

I'm saying great because I, I mentioned I think it was great that it came out and we're not hidden and we've got a chance to do something here.

So thank you. Hello everyone, thanks for letting us speak tonight. My name is Shelley Schroeder. I've been a resident of Orem City for 20 years. I keep looking at the compelling reason know, I can't as a family choose to change a vacation without impacting 10,000 things. I can't choose whether to sell my home or purchase a new home without many years of lasting repercussions. And, and just try to talk a 2-year-old into going somewhere else other than McDonald's without repercussions. Choices we make have really long-term Impact. I'm going to implore you to be wise. I also am Shelley Schroeder, who got to be principal of 2 schools that closed in the city of Orem. Sarah Park and Hillcrest. They loved their schools and communities and went through grieving process for that. We know that it was also one of the schools that did get replaced for the earthquakes. I then had the privilege of opening up Centennial Elementary, which is just south of us here, where our vision is to be happy, united, and successful. Knowing what we had just come out of, we still live for that. We deliberately thrive to be happy, united, successful. The impact of decisions makes a difference. I would say we're Quite content, but there was a lot of bumps to go through. I am proud of what we do for children every day. I want you to know also that I came from the Oregon— very small districts, you guys— and I was out with a lot of resources. I know the resources that I need for children in schools, for your ELL children, for your lower-income children. Those are resources, resources that will not be carbon copied, and people need to understand that.

Be wise.

Thank you.

Mayor and City Council and staff, thank you for giving time to this very important issue, and thank you for your service. Having served over 2 decades in the legislative arena, I am aware of your— the support that's required from your families to do this, and I thank them as well. Families is what this is about. There has been a lot of comment about children, and children are important, but they are the sacred stewardship of the parents. I would like to remind you in our code, and I will read directly from Utah Code, a student's parent is the primary person responsible for the education of the student, and the state is secondary in support of that role. I think it's important that we support our families and remember their significance of the choices that are being made. Several years ago, while I was serving as chair of the Education Legislative Committee, we were presenting several concerns and making them available for public comment. Coming to the stand was the chair of the Alpine School District The then chair who announced to us in an open and public meeting, we do not care what the legislature votes on, we will not change our policies in Alpine School District. It was a blatant admission that they self-identify as a bureaucratic empire. I don't know why they were afraid to listen to the legislature. I don't know why they're afraid to listen to the vote of the people, but I would urge your support through all of this. opportunity? Are we just talking about a tradition that is too big to change? I don't think so. I add my voice to those who would like you to please vote in favor of putting this on the ballot and remind you that the students are the sacred stewardship of the parents, and we support— the parents are the— excuse me, are the parents, and the families are the fundamental unit of society, and that's who we need to support. Thank you again for your time. Hi, my name is Alyssa May, and I am PTA president-elect at Lake Ridge Junior High, and I'm a GOP state delegate. I'm an Orem citizen. I have 3 students in Orem schools, and I worked as a para at Orem Elementary, a special needs para for I just want to say, I don't think this should go to the ballot. I don't think we're ready for it yet. I think we need a lot more studies. I don't know if my job as a para, as a special needs para, if there would be budget in that for what we would need. I think this is going to cost Orem taxpayers a lot of money, a lot of money, and in the process our students are going to suffer.

Thank you.

They're going to have subpar experiences in our schools. People come to Orem for great schools. They did 10, 15 years ago. We've got a declining population. We've got a declining student population, and in order to keep that education at the great level that we want it at, we are going to need to pay tons of money. And maybe we should, but we need to be very clear about how much it is going to cost. residents here in Orem, and I don't think our current studies have shown how much it is going to cost to maintain the same level. I don't think that we should put something on the ballot yet. I don't think we're ready. I think we need more studies. I think we need an independent counsel to look at it and verify everything. And so I would just urge you to be very careful as you vote tonight and think about how much this is going to cost Orem. and how much it's going to hurt students and teachers. Thank you. Helena Kleinlein, Orem. What is the real driving force behind all of this political theater? So much contention over Orem paying DEC $30,000 for feasibility study when Alpine paid Y2 Analytics $60,000 to evaluate the likelihood of passing a $600 million bond. There are many facts that Y2 reported to the school board that I recommend you hear. Pertinent to us, the study showed that American Fork and Pleasant Grove are likely not to pass the bond, regardless of their convincing language. But the study showed that one demographic area values a well-educated populace and they would decide the outcome of the bond. Orem. Y2 added that the only threat to bond failure was some enthusiastic distraction from the bond, you know, like Orem offering a split to their voters on the same ballot as the bond. Y2 recognizes that if ASD loses Orem bond support, the entire bond will fail. This explains why Ada Wilson and Sarah Hacken were fueled by a sense of urgency to organize a pick. Ada said, quote, normally a school board member would not be interfering or advocating in municipal affairs, but this is different, end quote. How is it different? Because it's money— over a quarter, half a billion dollars for infrastructure that will not benefit Orem. School board members are elected to serve as representatives of the public, not to financially protect a monolithic In a Vineyard debate, Ada admitted that she would rubber stamp whatever the superintendent proposed. She told the audience, I won't govern by survey. Well, the United States of America is a constitutional republic, and governing by survey is exactly what is expected of our elected officials. It's the only way to represent our interests. Mr. Mayor, City Council members, govern by survey. Let us decide. Hi, my name is Jana Hyatt, and I'm actually going to set aside my remarks to respond to that, because I think that's an important thing for you guys to factor in. As a representative democracy, we elect you to educate yourselves on the issues. And so this decision you're going to make tonight, whether to put this on the ballot or not, will represent your best thinking, your best ability to reason. So let it— let there be no mistake, you are also on the ballot tonight. When this comes out, when Orem decides, if you have voted in favor of this and it ends up costing Orem So we all read and understood what the feasibility study presented. Their facts showed that it will be more expensive. What they didn't tell us is how much more expensive it will be. They were very careful to work around very important details and facts so that reading the study Doesn't allow you to see how much it will actually cost. My recommendation tonight is that this not go on the ballot, because there is something— there's a better option available. That better option would be not Orem alone, but a split in the district that includes other cities. If it's a— if there are more cities included, there's a greater likelihood that we will have a strong school district. I recently had a great conversation with someone in the Murray School District. That's a one-city school district. They can't rebuild their schools. They can't rebuild them because there's not enough money, and they have to pay to rebuild all their schools at once. Orem would be in exactly that same situation. Orem built Alpine School District. We are not the ones that need to pull away from Alpine School District. We need to move forward and be thoughtful about how this change should take place and not strip ourselves of our rights as Orem citizens.

My name is Scott Price. I'm an Orem resident. I have 4 children who are active in Orem schools right now, and they're Your students. Gosh, 2 minutes is so short a time to address what I really want to say, but I guess I'll just boil down to the principle of the matter. Everybody is kind of bored to sleep already with all the details and the statistics for their side and this side, but it's all about the principle of the matter. I mean, we have— Orem controls its water, Orem controls its power. Those are our most valuable physical resources, but nothing is more valuable of a resource than our children. And so we would not delegate the responsibility for caring for them and teaching them to people in American Fork, as nice as they may be. Their interests are in American Fork.

And so I would say that who's going to know better how to teach your children and who to vote for that's going to educate your children better than the parents themselves?

Thank you.

And it's not a Hobson's choice.

It doesn't mean the teachers have to suffer. The unions— for now, this has nothing to do with the wonderful teachers in the actual union, but the union itself, its first priority is to sustain itself and to promote its own interests. But that's nothing that a Warren District School Union can't handle.

Any of the problems that I've seen that have been mentioned are actually very simply handled.

I mean, we spent 8% extra on our budget to the Alpine School District. That would cover the 6 teachers, no problem, that we would have needed for extra schools. But that's a very tiny, tiny portion of what would have been required. So, but we also do have a bone to pick with Alpine School District, and there are things that we want to get back at them for. They took 2 years from our students and 2 graduations from 2 batches of seniors who, based on the pseudoscientific reliance on masks that was not supported by any real science. I'm Pat Mossbacher, and my family will have 6 Orem school students this fall, and I also teach at Canyon View Junior High. The whole premise of the split is flawed. We're part of a community. By the reasoning that Orem is somehow being wronged financially, Alpine City and Highlands should be mad they're subsidizing our Orem students who will grow up, work, and be citizens along with their kids.

Or Timpanogos parents should be mad they're subsidizing my little Mountain View neighborhood.

It's a narrow perspective pitting my kids against other kids, and it's a false financial hope anyway that will end up hurting our kids.

Other commenters have already established all the financial negatives.

We're gaining, not losing.

I'm a 20-year teacher at Canyon View, and I think I help the kids there.

Knowing the real finances, I would leave to the existing Alpine District for financial security. It would hurt my younger kids and all Orem kids when the experienced teachers at their schools did the same thing.

The study says teachers are so important that we should be paid 10% more.

If so, then listen when basically all of us are saying The rosy projections are not accurate.

We're not just afraid of change. I personally voted for most of the members on this council. You made promises to preserve neighborhoods and stand up to special interests.

You've largely kept those promises. Just this spring, you and the Planning Commission specifically preserved a residential zone down the hill from my home near Sand Hill Road. Thank you. But that's why it's also been such a gut punch when this huge proposal and study that were never mentioned in your campaigns been rushed through.

That's a special interest that's going to hurt our neighborhoods.

The divisive campaign will undermine your credibility and all the good neighborhood things I hope you accomplish for the rest of your terms. Look at the numbers. See through the pie-in-the-sky promises that are going to leave Orem kids holding the bag.

Listen to the large majority of your constituents.

No one's voice is being taken away if you vote no. If supporters really think the public uproar against the proposal isn't real, then they'll easily be able to gather signatures and put it on the ballot next year. Use your elected judgment, vote against putting this divisive proposal on the ballot.

Thank you. Michelle Lee, I live in Orem. I, I've lived in multiple states the past few years on the East Coast, the West Coast. In the past 3 years alone, my kids have been in schools in 3 different states each year. I have experience in different school districts, and in each of the school districts I came from, each school district only represented 1 or 2 cities. Alpine represents 14 cities. In my other 3 school districts, there are between 4 and 12 schools included in those districts. Alpine has 92 schools. In my other 3 districts in different states across the country, we had between 2,200 and 6,200 students. Alpine has 85,000 students. That is way too big. I had a really strong voice in my other school districts. It was very easy to volunteer to speak to my school board members. They were all local to my city. I was able to be heard, and my kids had access to wonderful specialty programs, and we had a great local experience. I want to speak to what that previous commenter just said, that it's not about pitting kids against each other in different parts of this, of the district, our kids here, we're losing programs. Like, Orem kids don't have the same access to programs that other parts of the district have, and that's the problem. Kids need to have the same experience, not different experiences based on different zip codes they live in. We know that smaller is better and local is better. The research is very clear on that. We also know a split is inevitable, but according to Alpine School Board, so why can't we do on Orem's terms? Board members have said that they have already studied this out themselves. So why are they so opposed to Orem City being able to study it out ourselves as well? Now we have correct information. Now we can be able to make decisions based on the correct information. Sarah Hacken mentioned she put 7,000 miles on her car visiting the schools in the district. That's because we have 92 schools in the district. That is too big. Like, no wonder she's exhausted. I bet she works really hard. I believe it. It's too many students. It's too big. We have to cut this down. Think how much more of a voice we'd have with 7 school board members from Orem. Thank you.

Good evening, my name is John Wyas. I am a citizen of Orem, also a product of Geneva Elementary, Orem Junior High, Timpanogos High School. I have 3 children in Orchard Elementary now in Spanish dual immersion program. And as to that issue, I'd like to speak tonight. Currently through ASD, Orem is able to provide 4 dual immersion programs in our city, 3 Spanish and 1 Chinese. I also lived in Murray for 5 years, and my, my oldest son started his school career there in kindergarten. And I know for a fact that they have great teachers, they have a great district, but they are able to not— they are not able to provide the level of services that Orem is able to have through ASD. They have one dual immersion program, one gifted program, and that is all. And they also have trouble keeping Murray kids in Murray schools. And just my neighborhood alone, there was only maybe half the kids went to Murray schools, others went to neighboring districts because they had more services, more programs. And it is because for that reason that I am here to speak tonight, because I know this This vote and this process is injecting a high level of uncertainty in my children's education, and there's no guarantee that they will get the same level of services in an Orem district. There's a chance. I say nothing's impossible, but it's very uncertain that that can be accomplished without a high level of funds and tax dollars coming into our city to make up the difference to keep those programs. So In that vein, I invite you and encourage you to vote no on this, just because we want certainty, and this is injecting a high level of uncertainty into our children's lives and hundreds of other kids that go to these schools. So I encourage you to vote no.

Thanks.

My name is Greg Bruff. I've observed in this and past council meetings I've attended that they— that we begin with prayer each time, thanking God for that which we have, petitioning him to bless the deliberations and decisions of our community leaders, and to bless each of us to be kind and civil to one another. I've been saddened to observe in media and in some of the pronouncements of speakers before this body the anger, disruption of civility that should prevail. and the efforts of some who would take away freedom of choice, freedom of speech, and who instead proffer untruths and half-truths in trying to sway public opinion. The study you've commissioned has helped uncover many of the truths that have been hidden in the past. I think in part that we're looking tonight beyond the mark. A wise governor once said, Now it is not common that the voice of the people desires anything contrary to that which is right, but it is common for the lesser part of the people who desire that which is not right. Therefore, this shall you, shall you observe and make it your law to do your business by the voice of the people. Council members, you are voting tonight whether to give the voters of the city the right to determine their own destiny regarding the schooling of our children and grandchildren. We hope you will rise above the attempts to intimidate, threaten, quash, and disrupt proceedings to let the voters decide. Orem voters are the ones who know what their children and grandchildren need and what they are or are not currently receiving. They are the ones who can determine the future of education in our community. They also are the ones who will incur the costs or benefits through the payment of property taxes. I plead with you to let the people of Orem decide, not just the very vocal and disruptive minority. Please allow Orem voters to determine whether to stay or split from Alpine School District.

Thank you. It's interesting to me to see how good people can have such a diversity of opinion. And I think you're all good people that are here tonight.

I've been—

I have a couple of concerns as I've watched the things that have happened in Orem city government this year. I feel that a few of our officials, our city officials, are grouping together to promote a hidden agenda: splitting the school district, splitting schools, our Orem schools from Alpine School District is one of the agenda items that's being promoted, and that concerns me a lot. The Orem City website says the City of Orem believes transparency to be one of the pillars of good governance. Well, you can't have grouping together to— and agendas, and you and, and apparent— and transparency, that can't exist together. This is a great concern to me. As for the projections made by Discovery Education Consultants, AKA DEC, concerning the split, they really can't promise that their projections will become reality, that taxes will rise a minimum amount, or that Classrooms will be smaller, or that we will have money to seismically retrofit our schools. And you've heard the figures on how much the taxes have increased with the Jordan and Canyon split. Mayor Brunst feels like this is not the right time for us to split. I and many others here feel like it's not the right time to split. Now, to me, a city council should come together and decide things as a group. And if some people are grouping together, that's not how a city council should work.

Thank you.

Hey, can I know your name? I'm sorry, what was your name? Virginia Sokolowski. Sorry. Hello, my name is Gwenna Terry. For the past 2 weeks, I have been racking my brain for something to say that would make a difference in this decision process.

Today—

sorry, I get emotional when I'm nervous. Today I came to the realization That nothing I say here will impact your decision this evening. But I also knew that I needed my voice to be heard. I do believe that we need to have a smaller school district. I have believed that for several years, and I looked forward to this feasibility study to further the discussion. I have been disappointed in the information, in the information given in the study. After reading it over several times and doing some fact-checking, I have discovered several flaws in the data that would— and was disheartened when the questions that I presented to be answered were not answered in the community. I look forward to this being put on the ballot. But until we have more information and concrete answers to our concerns, an Orem School District is not going to be the answer, and my vote will be no.

Okay, yeah.

We can't go on the opposite side of where we're supposed to be. It's not really fair to everyone. Well, I think, I think we're playing games. You said you were going to vote against it. I think we should have one more person added on this side because this happened last time when we had this side add people this side. We've got to be honest and be on the right side. Thank you.

My name is Keith Wilson, Orem resident of 34 years. Thank you for the opportunity to address council this evening. I was asked the other day if I am opposed to a split of any kind. I am not, and I believe there are many other Orem residents who would support an honest study, probably one that included neighboring communities and openly engaged with Alpine School District. That's not what is being promoted here. So although we're not opposed to any kind of split, we are adamantly opposed to an Orem-only split. An Orem-only district is clearly the most expensive option. It is also the most disruptive option, most likely, most likely forcing boundary changes on every school in Orem. It also leaves Orem schools weaker. Further, we're opposed to an Orem-only proposal that is half-finished. Way too many gaps and unanswered questions. How often did we hear that was outside the scope of the study? Perhaps it was, but that does not mean the question wasn't important, and it does not dismiss the need for answers. I have a problem with some of the numbers in the study. One example, Provo School District has been held up for comparison, even as a model. An Orem-only district would be a little larger than Provo, 14,800 students to Provo's 13,600. About 1,200 more students, but we can say roughly the same size. Wouldn't you expect the budgets for district services to be approximately the same? But the EC's proposed budget for Orem is $21.6 million, while Provo's budget is $41.4 million. Not even remotely close. Good luck hiring district staff. And yes, teachers are concerned about their salaries and benefits, but they are also very concerned about the support they receive or won't receive from the district. Please support your taxpayers, your teachers, and our children, and vote against putting this on the ballot.

My name is Chelsea from Orem. I have found online It's not just coming through our school systems, it's coming through field trips and after-school programs that are connected to our schools as well. This is transgender racism and Nazism being taught that I've pulled off websites. I went to a legislative session where we had a group present. Well, there was a group that presented about bringing mental health clinics into our schools, which the legislation seemed to be in favor of, and they will be voting on that this legislative session. They talked about how the people that they did research with, they were frustrated because 60% of them were unwilling to admit their unconscious bias. They talked about transgenderism. They're bringing these things in through the suicide prevention system. And when I went home and researched them at home, I came across the surveys that they had referenced and were using that are being passed out at schools, asking kids if they've cut themselves, if they have ever had suicidal thoughts. if they've burned themselves, if they've ever tried to commit suicide, and they've asked about damage to property in the past. What I found was that those surveys are coming through the Department of Health and Human Services. Through the Department of Health and Human Services, they are also pushing electroconvulsion therapy, which is electric shock to induce grand mal seizures, and psychosurgery, which is lobotomies or brain surgeries on our kids. What happens is this goes through the Department of Health and Human Services. If the parent refuses, they will hire 2 fact-finders to go over the facts and decide for you if your child will be receiving that treatment within 48 hours of their decision. I, you know, I don't know how this got to the point where our children are the brightest light. They are everything good in this world, and we are supposed to protect them. This is our fault that we as gatekeepers for the Constitution fell asleep This is our fight, not theirs, and there's a darkness coming for them, a fight that they will not be able to fix. I don't know when our wallets started speaking louder than protecting that light and our children, but if that's truly where we're at, then we deserve to fall as a people.

My name is Aaron Anderson. I'm an Orem resident, 4 children in Orem schools. My first observation is that leaders should build consensus. And this process has not been pursued in a way designed to build consensus. I think you could build consensus in this community around the idea that the school district, if it should be split, would best be split in half. I think there would be widespread agreement between both sides, all sides, that it makes more financial sense for Orem to pair with neighboring cities than try and go it alone. An Orem-only school district will have a shrinking student population. It may seem harmless and only fair to let this go to the ballot. But if you rush this to a vote and it passes, you'll lose a seat at the table to create something far more sustainable and less burdensome for Orem taxpayers. Looking at the 6 options presented by DEC, it seemed like the only way DEC could claim that Orem property taxes would not increase more than they would if we stayed in ASD was by proposing a paltry $25 million bond. This would barely be enough to do a patchwork fix. of seismic issues, but still leave us with old facilities. The most likely way Orem will be able to affordably rebuild its old schools and attract, attack, attract and retain excellent teachers is by staying in Alpine School District. An earlier speaker cited the founding fathers and his pioneer ancestors breaking away from powerful nations to justify his support of an Orem School District. I ask you to vote no by citing the exact same founding fathers who wisely knew that 13 colonies, as different as they were, would be stronger together than they would be apart. What a mistake and error of judgment it would be if any of those 13 colonies decided to go it alone.

I'm Samuel Fisher, resident of Orem. My professional occupation is operations management. I am a certified Scrum Master, certified project management professional. My job is to develop operational excellence to help companies become competitively advantaged. I have done this for Fortune 100 companies, startups, growth stage D-series companies, and even social good companies.

Most of these are in Utah, but I have worked with and been with companies across the world as far as Madagascar.

The circumstances for each of these are different, but the principles are always the same. Local self-empowered teams, transparent responsibility, and decisions as close to the issue at hand as possible make for the best organizations and the most effective teams. And so that's why I'm asking you to vote to allow the people to vote on the split today.

Contrary to institutions, scale in complex systems translates to more, not less, cost.

Also, surprisingly, but not when you look into the details, smaller organizations are in fact They can operate more effectively under complexity. I was a student under Jordan School District during the much aforementioned split, and I can say this: it's not a mystery at all where or why their costs are down. I went through some of those schools with an interior designer, and they could point to me the money holes and the waste that they had in those schools. So this is something more about mismanagement and being more accountable, which is something I think we could all have.

Especially Alpine School District. At the time, I looked at the numbers and I found, once again, contrary to institution, the largest schools were the most expensive.

The small schools could operate more efficiently and build more efficiently. One person who built such a self-directed school mentioned that she could run her operation at about half the cost for about twice the efficiency of the large schools.

In closing, I'd like to say that while there's plenty of ways waste to reduce, that ultimately we want to create value for our children, because our children are the most valuable thing we have in our community.

And can anyone deny the parents' right to decide this? Thank you very much. My name is Megan Lloyd. I am an Orem resident and the mother of a special needs son. In 2 weeks, he begins a preschool program designed to set autistic children up for educational success. It is housed at our local elementary school. This means he will receive all the supports he needs in the classroom while also enjoying the sense of belonging of going to the same school as the kids in our neighborhood. So when I read this feasibility study— and yes, I've read every word— I became alarmed. To save costs, the study, quote, recommends special needs individuals and teachers should not be combined within the boundaries of district/community. So yes, let's do it for the kids, but only if you're a certain kind of kid. This study fails to investigate the ways and means by which Orem SPED students will be adequately supported if Orem is required to solely provide those supports. Several times, DECC has been questioned for more specifics on shared services agreements, and every time they have dodged the meat of the question. Today, the Provo City School District released a statement saying, quote, The individuals performing the feasibility study for Orem City did ask PCSD about shared services. They were interested in how the 2 districts might be able to share the management of transportation, student services, human resources, business services, and other various departments. Due to significant logistical and management concerns, this discussion did not go very far. This entire process has been rushed, and there is too much information missing from this study, information that could massively affect the study's conclusion that an Orem-only district is feasible without a significant increase in taxes. But the bottom line is this: you don't have an obligation to the study. You have a sworn obligation to serve the citizens of Orem. And as one of those citizens and a special needs advocate for my son, I'm telling you that an Orem district formed under these circumstances is not in our best interest. It will be exclusionary towards the most vulnerable students. It will restrict access to educational opportunities To my son and other children like him, that is not the warm community I know nor wish to be a part of. Thank you.

Hello, Todd Seeger, Orm resident.

I commend the mayor and city council for providing actionable information to enable parents and tax.

Let me address size, cost, teachers, and outcomes. Some fear parting ways, but folks, the split is underway now.

Parents of 1 in 6 children seek to educate outside Alpine School District. Some teachers suggest, ironically, that even more students move, move on to prevent the district split.

We did just that.

Let me tell you our story. Concerned about dwindling math and English outcomes years ago, we made the hard choice to place our son in schools with more demanding curriculum.

Indoctrinated with teaching approaches at the time, his first grade teacher told him he wouldn't amount to much. His charter school teachers earned his respect and made him step up. I did more homework than my friends, he said today. My son took and passed 4 AP courses.

He completed 4 concurrent enrollment courses at UVU.

My teachers love to teach, he said. He participated in soccer, tennis, and volleyball as they took state. Of 8 seniors on his basketball team, 6 players scored over a 32 on the ACT, including my son.

My son earned scholarships from the U of U and BYU. He is excelling in college while working 40 hours a week, making over $30 an hour on an internship, and plans to pursue a PhD.

He credits his success to his teachers. Charter schools are micro school districts within, within ASD boundaries, one school each. All operate with less funding per student. My daughter's charter school had 78 6th graders this year.

She was one of 14 students that scored 99, in the 99th percentile, 18% of them.

This is proof that smaller districts can do work, and we owe it to our citizens to allow them to vote. Thank you.

My name is Ada Wilson, and I am the board member representing the Mountain View cluster, which is the western Side of Orem and Vineyard. Thank you, City Council and Mayor Young, for 90 minutes to talk to you. Appreciate the extra time. This proposal to create an Orem-only school district will be defeated. Because it will require us to pay more and get less in the quality of education our children receive. It does not make sense. Our students, our educators, and we the taxpayers will be the ones paying the price for a distorted view of what local control means and an outdated model of what— of small country schools. We are an urban city where healthy, robust schools that offer a full curricular array of choices are vital to the future of our city. We are a diverse population with unique challenges to elevate the future of our English language learners. They thrive when they have access to support services that are only available in a strong school district. I want to take just a moment to talk to you about just 4 of the ways that Orem has been supported by a large and strong, robust school district. The first is Title I funds for those who are economically disadvantaged. We have a high concentration of this population. Those Title I funds are gathered from throughout the district, and they are allocated to Orem schools because we care about kids. Title III. Title III funds are federal funds that are directed to English language learners. These— this is also a concentrated population in our city. I ask you to exercise your leadership in behalf of our children. Thank you. Mayor, City Council, I'm Karen Turner. I'm a graduate of Orem High over 40 years ago, and over 30 years ago my husband and I moved back here to Orem to raise our 5 children. And we are also business owners in Orem, so we're very aware of the amount of taxes that we pay to Alpine School District. Currently, 1 out of every 6 students in Orem attends schools outside of Alpine School District. Over the past 16 years, there have been studies and discussions ongoing about dividing Alpine School District, so this is not a rushed issue. Let the citizens of Orem vote to decide. The independent feasibility study shows we can definitely afford our own school district. Over the past 20 years, we have paid 18 to 28% conservatively of the Alpine School District budget, and in return Alpine School District reinvested 13% in Orem schools. Give us a voice to vote to keep all of our money in Orem. We have learned that 16 years ago FEMA found several Orem schools unsafe, and 16 years later 3 schools are still unsafe. We need a voice to protect the students of Orem. This is not about emotions and fear. Where's our pioneer spirit? We can do this tonight. You have a choice to make. You can vote to allow us, the citizens of Orem, to have a voice. Or you can take away our voice. I kindly request that you give us the right to vote on this decision on the November ballot.

Thank you.

Good evening. Thank you for hearing us out tonight. Your stamina is That's Herculean. I'm impressed with all of you right now. I love this community. My name is Brian Ellingford. I've been a member of this community for 20 years, and I've taught at Orem High School for 16. And I love the kind of community that Orem is. We were all standing in line for an hour, and I heard 5 different civil conversations about what should happen, a discussion of facts. Even when we disagree on certain things, we are still a community, and that To me is, I think, the essence of our city. I love the shirts even. I mean, let's do it for the kids. Let's look at what the children need. And that's the reason that I'm concerned about the feasibility study and what it does, because it outsources the needs of our most vulnerable students in our community. I do believe that you can be persuaded, or I wouldn't be here tonight. And so I'd like to look at just 3 groups quickly. One that has already been mentioned: who will tell the mother of a child with cerebral palsy that she will need to provide transportation for her student out of the Orem district and community? Who will tell the student with social anxiety or serious medical conditions that there are no online options for them and that they'll need to look for classes outside of Orem district? Who will tell the student with an addiction or a child or a criminal record or a shattered home life that there are no schools that can accommodate them, that they will need to look for help? Outside of the Orem School District. Many have said that we'll figure this out as we go, that there may be 2 or 3 hard years, but eventually things will work out. That might be true, I don't know. But what happens to the students caught in these 2 or 3 years? What happens to the students who will be underserved until we can figure things out? There is so much that the study does not address, and we cannot risk— we should be unwilling to risk The education of our students during this transition. Please vote no tonight. We cannot cast out the students in our community who most need our help and inclusion.

Good afternoon, Mayor, and— or good evening, Mayor and Council. Appreciate this opportunity.

My name is Mike Preston. Lived in Orem for almost 50 years, raised all of our kids here. They all went through the Orem schools.

The issue at hand tonight is not about whether or not we split and make an Orem School District. The issue at hand is whether or not we vote on making a split. Split and having an Orem school district.

That's what we're here to discuss.

And all the rhetoric about what's going on, whose vote, what, what happened in this feasibility study, and whether what's right or what's wrong, that's not— that's irrelevant right now.

What we're voting for is to vote. We want to vote. I may, uh, I consider myself a student of the Constitution.

I'm also a patriot.

Whenever a significant number of citizenry have an issue with those who govern them— and make no mistake, a school board is a governing body— that portion of the citizenry has a right, an absolute right, to voice their concerns by another And if another significant body is opposing them, then they have a right too. That's why we need to put it to a vote.

Therefore, the only rightful conclusion is to put it to a vote. An issue—

putting this issue of the school board split from ASD should be put on the ballot in November. and let the people decide.

We heard earlier, though, that if we let people decide, that might be risky. Well, let's, let's take the constitutional right away from the people and don't let them vote.

Thank you.

Thank you to the City Council. And to the mayor for this opportunity. My name is Jody Sundberg. I am an Orem resident for over 40 years and have 10 current grandchildren in Orem schools. I have a list of things that I was going to talk about. Many of those things have been talked about. I just want to say that A couple of weeks ago in one of the feasibility studies, the mayor suggested that the only downside to an Orem district would be change, and that change is hard for some people. And I've witnessed that with changes that I've been a part of serving on the school district, and it was a difficult thing. But I want to talk just a little bit about unnecessary changes and how unnecessary changes can cause several issues for Orem residents. Unnecessary changes cause our Orem city taxes to go up if we determine that we need an Orem-only district. An unnecessary change will cause many of our best and brightest and most experienced teachers to remain with Alpine, or with Alpine Schools School District, and not support an OM-only district. There are several other unnecessary changes. The thing I would like to ask you today as a council and a mayor is to become a partnership with other communities, other municipalities in our district And again, with our school district Board of Education, as was similar 3 years ago before COVID we had the best partnership of any district and city anywhere and worked together to find the best way to do an, an Alpine School District split.

An Orem split will not work.

Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Dean Dickerson. 16 years ago, when this was again a huge issue in the city, I sat where you're sitting now. I experienced the darts and the threats and the cloud and the fog.

Of disinformation.

I realized really quick in my political career that Occam's razor is a real thing. Occam's razor is, simply put, the simplest explanation tends to be the truth. So what's the simplest explanation? Had Orem split off in 2006, and we would have voted—

had one member of the city council voted differently, And we would have put it on the ballot, then Orem would have been over $500 million richer.

Please consider that. Number 2, nothing's guaranteed in Alpine School District at all. Somebody mentioned 6 teachers from a smaller Orem city. Alpine School District doesn't have to keep those 6 teachers here.

Nothing's guaranteed.

Thank you.

Nothing.

The contracts, nothing are guaranteed.

Number 3, the citizens of Orem, in my opinion, are tired of packing the RDAs that other cities put on. For those of you who don't know what an RDA is, it's a redevelopment agency.

In the audience, the members of the city council know what it is.

They don't have to pay taxes. Vineyard RDA is just too much. In my experience, we need to trust the citizens of Orem. They're pretty smart.

Put this on the ballot, let the campaign bring out the truth.

And I'll leave you with just one other thing. The citizens of Orem are probably some of the wisest people I've ever met. Give them the opportunity to say yes or no. and let their will be done.

My name is Anne Lott. I have been a citizen in the city of Orem for 51 years. I had 4 children go through Orem school districts via the Alpine School District. During that time, I have served on PTA councils in elementary school, junior high, high school, and on the city. And I have seen many instances where we were favorably working together with the— or with Alpine School District. When my children were young, Alpine School District was jumping through hoops to build enough schools for a growing Orem community. At one time, I was aware that every other year a new elementary school was being built. In the last 25 years, Alpine School District has built— Orem City— 2 new high schools and rebuilt Orem. They've built 2 junior highs and remodeled another. I'm not exactly how many— exactly how many elementary schools have been built during that time, but I have known there have been at least 5 that I could name, and some have been rebuilt. So when you say that Alpine School District does nothing for us, that's not right. I would be really curious to know just how much money from the, uh, upcoming bond election that Alpine School District wants to pass would be monies going to Orem for additions, for seismic upgrades, and for new schools, possibly. I know that the Orem School— that the Alpine School District is very large, and that plans or ideas to divide it might be considered. But I don't feel that this survey which has been done is a viable one, and that we should not pass— say that we can divide the school district at this time. And so for right now, I just want you to know that I Stand with Alpine School District.

Mayor and City Council, my name is John Barrick. I'm an Orem resident. You've had 3 studies since 2006, and one of your former colleagues told us he was here in 2006 and we were one vote short. We've had 3 city councils hear that it's feasible. In the last 20 years, the Alpine School District has said the split is inevitable. Orem should be proactive, not reactive. Orem is the only city in the Alpine School District that can split on its own. Lehi is large enough to split, but it would create an island of Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs, and I think the new city of Fairfield, which is coming. They cannot split on their own, but Orem can.

Thank you.

I am here because of the significant decline in Orem schools that my children have experienced. My older children had an amazing experience. My younger children have seen nothing but decrease in curriculum and increases in class size. We've heard a lot about the Orem— the Alpine School District's 7% teacher salary increase this year, which is probably well deserved. But why are salaries only going up 2% in the Alpine School District? Alpine School District according to their billion-dollar budget? The answer is there will be less teachers making 7% more than there were teachers last year, which means class sizes are going up, which is exactly what the budget shows. If Alpine— the last person, I agree with her, we should know how much Alpine was planning on reinvesting in Orem. Alpine knows this vote is tonight. If they wanted you to know and me to know how much money they were gonna rest invest in Orem, they would have told you before the vote tonight. That's a signal. Today is Orem City— today, as an Orem City Council, you can give Orem residents something they have never had the chance to do: accept responsibility and accountability for our children's education. I ask you to give the people the vote. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

If you could hang on just a second. Um, just a couple housekeeping things. Where are we at as far as numbers?

We have 2 individuals on this side of the room and 3 individuals on this side of the room.

Okay. And then one other— Yeah, that includes the extra. Yeah, there's 2 over here and 3 over here. No, that's right. You go 1, 2, 1, 2, and then 1 extra. So that's right.

That's right.

Okay. Okay, so I think we're good. One other question, just for Pete. We're just getting some feedback that online people say that They— it's not loud enough. I don't know if you can do anything about that or not. Anyway, if you guys could check that out. Okay, we'll carry on. Thank you.

My name is Ruth Wilder. I've lived in Orem for 34 years. I have taught special education for nearly 25 years. I've worked with kids in the severe units. My last assignment was— well, before I retired in 2019, I worked with a population 18 to 22 years old in transition. That's represented in Alpine School District by ATEC. Many of the students that attend ATEC are from Orem. And they're bused in. And my concern is there is also another set of population who attend Dan Peterson School, and I feel like this population is extremely underrepresented. And I don't see where Orem School District would be prepared to serve these students. in a way that they by law need to be served. And that's my main concern. If this does go to a vote, I pray that the people of Orem will seek out that information and find out how those students can be best served, because I don't see a method of that happening within the next few years in an Orem school district only.

Thank you.

Mayor, City Council, my name is Corbin White and I come to you tonight all the way from South Jordan, and probably the only person in here that's not from this area, but I was personally elected in 2010 right after the split up in Canyons and Jordan to serve on the Jordan Board of Education, and I did so to help change the culture of the district. Outcomes I witnessed during my time on the board directly after the split were measurable. Multiple districts helped in sharing and lifting students. For example, special needs students attended Jordan Valley in Canyons District until Kari Sue Hamilton School was able to be built. International Baccalaureate Students even attended classes at West High until Bingham became an Ivy School. Both districts showed student test scores and student achievement going up. During board study sessions, we repeatedly celebrated positive outcomes like high school graduation rates.

We had a guy who's kind of big, he would jump up and down and really talk loud about all the greatness that we were executing and having in the district.

I mean, so You know, there's some great things that came out of our split. Our board was able to raise teacher salaries and benefits, as well as raise salaries for our equally hardworking classified employees. The board helped separate— pardon me, the board held separate community meetings monthly to gain public support and perspective on every issue, every topic. The board became recognizable at the state legislature and helped advocate for our kiddos directly with legislators. My companions did the exact same thing on their side. We created board governance policies for our board and made it clear that the board who hires the superintendent sets the directives and holds the district accountable. And the way it's always been done mindset paired with go-along-to-get-along school board members, you know, who always vote the way it's always been voted on, you know, I believe that That's what led to the split. In short, I would just say that splitting was great for taxpayers, students, parents, classified— pretty much everybody involved, because Kenyans got to leave the toxic environment and Jordan got to create a new environment. And it's tough to be the end of the show, I guess, on this side.

Randy Evans, Forum, and I'm not very good at this.

I don't have polished notes with a lot of data and facts, but can I have permission to ask the audience a question that can be answered with a raise of a hand? Is that appropriate or no?

Yes.

Okay, I'll just go with what I could do. Knowing that the student body at Lake Ridge Junior High, where I work, about close to 50% of the parents of students at that school are native Spanish speakers.

And that's a voice that I think needs to be represented.

We—

I think all of us know that that population is growing in our community.

And we need to take that into account.

And I think the danger of putting it on—

voting to put it on the ballot tonight is we're missing a big section of the population that doesn't really understand what's happening.

They might just get the idea that, well, I'm voting to keep money in Orem without seeing all of the other potential consequences, intended and unintended. And I think that's a little bit unfair.

to that group, if I can say that. Thank you. I'm Dennis Lisenby. My wife and I had 2 children in Orem School District. We have 2 grandchildren in the Orem School District and 2 over in Highland, so we've got a division here. The Alpine School District on its website says, focus on the power of these moments. Focus on the power of these moments. Nobody here has focused on the power Or ask the question about who has done the homework on what happens if this passes. I asked that question. I've done the homework, and this is what the city fathers and city mothers and community leaders are going to do. First, the first major goal of the plan is to create safe schools where our Orem children will be protected from disastrous acts of nature that sometimes Bring unsafe walls crashing down. Growing up in California, I know something about that. Another part of the plan is to facilitate lower class sizes and increase teacher pay. We have 3 high schools that they say don't have enough students. We start right there with lower class sizes. That is incredible. Thank you. Your mayor and council realize that with smaller class sizes, higher teacher salaries, curriculum and programs can be implemented that will help move our children's test scores from the level of failing right now to the level of excelling. These city mothers and fathers want to create a major, exciting, high-level school.

That's 2 minutes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

This is an idea whose time has come. We're going to create something that's going to take a generation of children up higher than we will ever be.

Yeah, so you're the last one. as we were making up earlier.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Young, and I live in Orem City, and I have for a long time, and I'm also an educator. I'm just going to talk real quickly about some history of feasibility studies in the state of Utah in the last 16 to 18 years. So the first one I want to bring up is the Lehi Pioneer District. That's Lehi and some of the Sotoga Springs, and I think Eagle Mountain, they did a feasibility study several years back, and they found that it was not feasible for them. And the reason why was because Orem had the largest tax base paying towards their new growth. And so if they broke apart from Alpine School District, they would be hurt from that because of Orem's tax base. So I would like to point out that first one. Second one is When we did the— when Sandy and Murray cities did a feasibility study, first of all, we've had a lot of criticism of DEC. I was searching who did their feasibility studies in those 2 cities, and it was the other company that was being considered, which is the Lewis Young Roberts Company. They paid them twice to do feasibility studies, not at $30,000. I don't know what it was, but it was a lot more, I'm sure. And first time they did the feasibility study and found that it was feasible for those 2 cities to split from Jordan District, the people voted no. And it went down— it was kind of kicked down the road. And so within about 5 to 6 years, they found them in a place where it was inevitable. It was something that needed to happen. And so again, they paid for another feasibility study. It was feasible. It went to vote and the people voted yes. Now, it was messy. I've heard a lot of people talk about it was like an ugly divorce. I don't think all divorces have to be ugly. I hope that Orem can learn from these mistakes. The third one that I want to bring up is Orem City itself has done feasibility studies. for a long time. And I just would like to thank the council for giving us this opportunity to bring it to vote and to give the people, for the first time in Orem, a reason to say yes or no instead of leaving it with the council. So I would like to say, please give us that vote.

Okay, it's been suggested that maybe because we've been going for almost 2 hours, if I can see that clock right.

Yep.

We just stand up and take a 5-minute break, and then we'll sit back down and then we'll go to the City Council.

All right.

Let's go ahead and go back to our seats and we'll get started again.

All right.

Welcome back. And that's the first time we've ever taken a break. But it's actually kind of nice. So it's the first time I've ever had a Coke up here.

All right. I'd like to make a motion that we do that every meeting. Nice.

All right.

So for this next part, what we're going to do is we're going to have Each city councilor. I mean, we've all been through this, we've been through all the meetings, we've got all the input from the citizens. Everybody's got their own way of looking at this. And so I'd like to give each city councilor whatever time they'd like to take to talk about whatever they want to talk about, and we'll have each councilor do that. They'll have one shot at doing that.

Mayor, if I may apologize, technically what we just concluded was our personal appearances. Okay, section of the meeting. And so the appropriate thing to do would be to transition to item 5.1. Okay, and to read the item and then to specify how you as a council would like to proceed.

Okay, sounds good.

All right.

So we'll move to item 5.1, which is a discussion of a resolution. The resolution reads, the Orem City Council requesting the initiation of the process to create a new school district with boundaries contiguous with the boundaries of the City of Orem. And requesting that a measure to create said new school district be placed on the November 8th, 2022 ballot for voter approval. So essentially, that's the resolution that we'll either vote in favor of or against. The way I'd like to do that is just, as I mentioned, have each city council member say whatever they like about this. and kind of maybe their thoughts.

They're not—

I don't— they don't have to say how they're going to vote, but I just like them to say what their thoughts are. And then we'll go through the entire group. I think we'll start with Tom and then work our way to Jeff, and then I'll finish it, and then we'll come back and then we'll vote accordingly. But Tom, if you'd like to go.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I suggested to the mayor that we should be limited to 2 or 3 minutes like you have been, but He didn't agree immediately when I texted him this morning, but I will try to limit mine to roughly 2 to 3 minutes because I think this group is primarily interested in the voting that will take place shortly. First of all, I thought the comments that were made were excellent, well thought out, well educated, and many of them quite humorous. Thank you for bringing a little humor to this event. And frankly, all of them were motivated by the best interests of our students, and I thank you for that. I believe this is the most important vote I will cast for my almost 9 years on the City Council, so I've taken that very seriously, read the report, attended meetings, and I've agreed with many of the ideas in the report, whether we split from Alpine School District or not, specifically exploring the possibility of outsourcing various services, having assistant principals perhaps at 2 smaller elementary schools. Certainly we all recognize the benefits of smaller class sizes and higher salaries for our teachers. I think— I don't think that can be overlooked or ignored. And the need to look at test scores— I agree with all of those things that were brought out and many other things. I, along with many citizens, were concerned about using a newly formed, untested company, Discovery Education Consultants, because of the previously publicly stated bias of Dr. Paul McCartney. But in truth, this study found what others have said: a split is feasible. We've known this for some time. Left undefined was at what cost, and costs matter. Also left undefined was exactly how all these miracle cures would take place. We've spent a lot of money studying this, and we will still spend yet a lot of money putting this on a ballot if we choose to go that way.

When I—

I appreciate my discussion when I made a call to Mr. Mike, uh, Wankier, who was the financial person of Discovery, who was generous with his time and expertise. He's a very well-qualified, seasoned financial person, and who told me, yes, taxes would be higher in a separate Orem school district than by staying with Alpine, but the exact amount of that Increase could not be determined. I agree with that because so many assumptions would have to be made that they would be unreasonable to make all of those assumptions and then take a guess at which assumption worked. I believe the total cost of the actual split and setup of the cost would be huge, and I believe it's unreasonable to expect a standalone ORM district to operate at less than their. share of the Alpine School District. That being said, if this vote were just should we split from Alpine School District, I would vote yes, but not as an Orem standalone. I think it's too small in my opinion. However, when I walked in and saw campaign managers and t-shirts, I knew that this thing was going through tonight. It's already been decided. As I stated previously, I would not vote for a split if it raises taxes. And this will— to do so would be unfair to businesses thinking about locating in Orem, as well as those who are already here. It would also harm those on limited income who we'd like to talk about regularly in our meetings, and all those who believe that government should spend reasonably and responsibly. To move forward before we know how much those taxes will raise reminds me of something Nancy Pelosi said in 2010. We'll have to pass the bill so you can find out what's in it. I don't plan to do that.

Thank you. I actually did enjoy the dialogue and the back and forth this evening. Also, thank you for your passion, which I love. I love passionate people because you really care. I started the due diligence on this. In the springtime, Ada and Sarah were very kind to set up meetings with Rob Smith. When they came with me, we had, I think, at least 2, maybe— I think I missed one— 3. So we started then looking at everything from our Title I schools, which we have 7, we've heard that, and these FTEs, full-time equivalent teachers. I believe they said there were 17. Adding a French teacher, I think, at Timpanogos was an idea that he told us. These, these, these are real teachers. I read the full school district feasibility study, all 280 pages. I attended 2 of the 3 meetings that the city had, so I've taken my, my responsibility very seriously. I love the idea of local control. I do agree that those closest to govern best. I do think that's a great principle. I love the idea of smaller class sizes, paying teachers more, and I do love those. My concerns are shared, shared service agreements with special ed and transportation. I was— I hadn't even thought that the upfront cost the city would, would only be able to be reimbursed up to half a million dollars, and if any other costs, we would have to take a loan to them. I don't have a bunch of money laying around with I mean, we have parks and streets and, and people to pay. So that was very concerning to me, upfront costs. And of course, we're in inflation. Maybe we're going into a recession. Technically, the 2 quarters of negative growth constitute a recession, but you know, the Biden administration is arguing that. They really are, if you read them. So, um, that's a little nerve-wracking for me. I know, 4% to 18% property tax increase. Most people just got their property tax in the mail. I know I did. My son lives down in Springville and his taxes went up $600, and most of it was his school district, and he was saying how painful that was. I've been told in my meetings that we get an extra $1,075. out of unrestricted general funds above the other students in the rest of Alpine School District. I know some of this is Title I, some of these are these full-time equivalents and other things. So that's a lot of money above the— about the $4,000 that follows the student in the weighted pupil that comes from our income tax. I'm on anti-splitting. I do think it's— I didn't think it's something we need to consider. But I would like it to be Vineyard, Orem, Linden, Pleasant Grove, and maybe even American Fork. And frankly, I enjoyed our meetings with Alpine School District before the COVID They were productive. They were meetings of common interest. We worked together, whether it was a school resource officer we were talking about, whether it was a road in between Mountain View and our fitness center. I mean, we work together, and I'd like to see us do that again. And I'd like to have us be very proactive of splitting. I do believe Alpine is too big, but I'd like to see it done in a way that's either like a north and south, east and west, whatever that looks like. So my, my hesitations are increased property tax, the upfront costs the city would have to pay, whether we can negotiate service agreements, and whether this is a better discussion with a wider scope for. So that's, that's all.

Thank you.

I want to thank everybody for that who called me and emailed me. I think we received quite a few calls and emails, and hopefully I responded to most of you. Our children are our most precious resource, and we need to do what's best for them and our teachers and the citizens of Orem. I've been asked that— many people said, hey, this has been rushed. And I look back on this topic and it was covered in 2006, as Dean Dickerson mentioned, also 2017 in a feasibility study by Alpine School District, and also in 2022 done by the City of Orem. Alpine School District in 2005 had 54,730 There's 54,773 students, and today they have over 85,000, which to me is a little bit big. In November 2016, Alpine School District did a bond for $400 or $387 million, plus they did a $77 million lease revenue bond. And out of that $464 million, Warren received $4 million for the roof at Timpanogos High. $10.9 million for renovations at Mountain View, $20.3 million for Cascade and new school, $20 million for a new school at Centennial, $1.8 million for security updates in Bonneville and Aspen, totaling $57 million. Orem paid from our property taxes $110 million to the capital and debt fund, and $53 million went outside of Orem. That concerns me deeply. If we go back to the, the 2006, the last time the city council should have put this on the ballot, Orem would have paid, or had paid, $312 million into the capital debt fund to Alpine School District and received $189 million back. That's $123 million going out of Orem to other cities. Is Alpine School District really subsidizing Orem? That's what I heard through this whole 4 months of Stronger Together and all that stuff, and Ada Wilson and Sarah Hacken, but to me, I don't think it's at all that way, that we're— that they're subsidizing ORM. I disagree with the money going out. To me, that's not a good return on investment. We're losing a lot of money. So, so in 2006, 10 ORM squirrels were identified as FEMA with a seismic Vulnerability Assessment. In 2022, FEMA did the study again. 4 more were located in Orem: Bonneville, Lake Ridge Junior High, Mountain View, and Orem Elementary. From the study in 2006, we still have 4 schools today which are on the list: Orem Junior High— this is seismic, they're not seismic for our kids— Orem Junior High, Sharon Elementary, Windsor, and Geneva, which they tore down. And please don't sell the property up in Skid Row because we can't afford that. So, so my main concern is these are all Title I schools. And it's been 16 years, 2006, that Alpine City knows that those schools are not safe. And to me, children and teachers will die if we have an earthquake. And that's the bottom line for me, it's safety. And, you know, for 16 years, what have they been doing? All the money's been going out west and up north, period. And we know that, we see it. You go to Eagle Mountain, that high school was $80 million. It's a Taj Mahal. I mean, we don't— that's just, that's just ludicrous to me in my mind. But so if we have an earthquake, um, and Alpine School District has done nothing to fix these issues, in those 4 schools, or all the 3 schools, because before he took— they tore the one down, Geneva. Please keep our teachers, our children, our teachers safe. And, and I ask Ada Wilson and Sarah Hacken, as board members, you need to fight for Orem to get our schools— Because I, I really feel that On the city council, I represent all citizens. I don't work for the city. I don't know if Jamie would hire me, but, um, so I work for the citizens of Orem, and that's why I answer my phone, you know, every day. So hopefully that, um, we can be strong and stand up for Orem and get bleachers for Timpanogos High School instead of Lone Peak. You know, we need those things.

Thank you.

Sarah, we need Potter's Wills in Timpanogos that are only half Powers' Wills, and you said you'd do that and it hasn't been done, so please work on that. Alpine School District has sold Hillcrest and Polaris, and they could have reinvested that money back into Orm, but they did not. So we need to make sure that we get these FEMA issues solved because We have more coming up. Lake Ridge Junior High. So these are all Title I schools that we need to make sure we don't kill these kids. And we just talked about the person that worked at Lake Ridge. We need to make sure that they understand what's going on and that we take care of their kids, because the worst thing that can happen is we have an earthquake and the walls come tumbling down and those kids are— and the teachers have passed away. Same with the concern we have in Orem with the city center. We finally are getting the new city center because it's not seismic, it's just unreinforced brick. So if we have an earthquake now, we're getting under the dais and you guys would be in trouble. But so, but, uh, so, so A, so A is the Alpine School District is closing our schools and selling our property. And my concern there is They sell the property. The city bought Hillcrest, but if they sell the property, where do we build our schools when we grow? So, so since, since I've been on the City Council for quite a while with Tom McDonald, going on 9 years, citizens ask us all the time, why are my property taxes going up?

Why?

And I can answer, it's Alpine School District, and it happens every year just like clockwork. So everyone knows, or everyone has received their tax bill. I just received mine. And, and the— on the property tax, I don't see on the statement, I don't see anything about the proposed $595 million bond. That's not assessed on my statement.

Yes, it is.

It's not there, it's blank. So they've been talking about it for years, and I'm wondering why it's not on the statement. You know, maybe— well, it's interesting, they've been talking about it for years, this, this bond, not the amount of $595 million, which I was shocked with, but I believe they don't want it on there because of sticker shock. $595 million proposed bond will be on the ballot, I think it's November 8th. Orms portion of that bond will be $116 million. And how much of that will stay in Orms, and I guess we'll know August 9th when you go to the Alpine School District board. And we can go to the meeting and find out, maybe that's when they're going to do it. So, you know, you wish they would have maybe done it before. We did try to get a meeting with Alpine School District, even Ada asked me, and we did set it up, but they couldn't meet until after this meeting, so it really didn't, didn't help. But talking about my property tax, I know I'm going along, but in my property tax from 2002 to 2022, my property taxes have gone up 212%.

Why?

Because of Alpine School District. So, um, people talk to me also about, hey, I don't think this is a good time to do it because of inflation and And the country's heading into a recession and tax increases will hurt the elderly and everybody else. Well, with that said, I look back to my taxes from 2008 to 2012. I think that was this recession, right?

I remember that.

Okay, Alpine School District property taxes went up. We went up. It didn't go down even though the property, property values went down. So to me, um, all bonds have to be repaid. They have to be repaid, and that's why they went up, right? So I take it that we're sort of like frogs in a pot, right? We're in water and Alpine School District has turned up the heat a little bit, and now we're boiling and it's too late. We're cooked. And now we have another 20-year— uh, 20 years we have to pay a tax increase every year. So do people say, hey, you know, it's not— taxes are We can't afford it because taxes are going to go up if we split. Well, Alpine School District, our taxes go up every stinking year and it compounds every year. So it's not like, oh, it's only $100 here, $100 there. You know, if I've had a 212% tax increase, you know, I didn't realize that. And I was shocked because it's the frog in the water. So I'll get off on my little story there. But, um, the, uh, So there's one more issue also with, with, with Orem kids. Alpine School District charges $244 for busing for each kid. It's in the, it's in the end in the budget. And we don't have very, we have very little busing in Orem, very little. So if you take the number of kids, 14,700-something, and you do it by $244, that's $3.6 million that I'm assuming stays a little bit in Orem because we have busing. But the rest is going out. So I think we need to make sure that we, we keep the money in Orem, you know. So, so I've been a little long-winded, but, you know, when I get on a roll, I guess I'm okay. But Chief Adams is probably looking at me, he wants, he wants me to be quiet, but So I just want you to know that my dad served in the Air Force, in the military, and he fought in Vietnam. And men and women died for our freedoms to be able to choose. And that means a lot to me, um, that people died for our freedoms. And, you know, we can talk about we're normal, you know, this and that, but bottom line is we have the right to choose as Americans. So I'm really struggling with those that want me to vote no. And take away your right to vote on an issue. So we live in the United States of America, and that right should be cherished, the right to vote, and shouldn't be taken for granted or taken away or silenced. And I don't want to offend anybody, but to me, in my mind, that's un-American to say, take my vote away. So So if those people want me to, to dictate my will upon the citizens of Orem and not put it on the ballot, I, I can't do that. I just don't feel right about it. It feels wrong to me. Everyone should have a voice, and we all deserve the right to vote. That's our God-given right. I love this country and the flag of the United States of America. We did the Pledge of Allegiance. And I appreciate Ada for doing that. I mean, uh, Sissy, sorry. She said the prayer, but, um, and the national anthem, and, and they mean a lot to me just being in the military with my dad. He's 91 going on 92, so don't ever disrespect the flag or the national anthem because people died for those, those freedoms. I trust in the citizens of Orem that they will educate themselves with facts. And don't believe everything you read on Facebook and Twitter because it's, it's a lot of garbage out there. Just vote, vote November 8th to decide if you want your money to stay in Orem and benefit our children, teachers, and our great city. Thank you.

Thank you, and thank you for this opportunity to speak to you tonight, and thank you to all of you who came tonight. I was just talking to Jennifer that I served with in the PTA at Canyon View, right? And we both said, wouldn't it be great if we had this many people show up to PTA meetings every month, right? Or the carnival, or however we need their service. So I hope that this really does awaken a sense of involvement in our schools.

Thank you.

schools, because that's what's important, right, is our education of our kids. I think everyone in this room feels the importance of that issue right there. I just want to address a couple things before I get into my comments. Um, can I just say, for those of you who, who made the comment about their questions were not answered because they were told they were outside the scope of the study, most of those questions were questions that you should give to us, not to the— to DEC about the study. So call me. I will answer those questions for you. You have questions? Call me. I want to answer the questions. I tried to respond to as many emails as I could. Those of you— some of you I went back and forth with and really tried to answer your questions. I want you to know the facts. I want you to know what I know, and I want to learn from you. So call me, okay? Um, I also want to say one more thing. Uh, the comment was made that the Canyons, um, Jordan District was 2 to 3 hard years. Um, and I'm going to talk about that a little bit later in my comments, but I want to say— I want to address that. Um, I've spoken with people in the Canyons and Jordan District, and the reason it was 2 to 3 hard years is because people created that with their attitudes, their responses, their treatment of each other. So Orem's better than that. Let's not do that, right? Let's respect each other's opinions. Let's debate the issues kindly, and let's disseminate our information. But please, please, let's make sure that, um, Orem is better than that everyone can see how good Orem residents are. Okay, um, I'd want to start by just saying, um, for over 20 years I have volunteered and served in our Orem schools as a member of the PTA, the school community councils, and volunteering in the classroom. I tell a sweet story about my daughter's graduation last year, 2021, and I had a little boy call me out, Mrs. Millett, Mrs. come here, and I didn't even recognize him. And he said, I'm Angel. You taught me how to read in 3rd grade. I didn't know how to read, and you taught me how to read. Can I get a picture of you with my family? That's what makes a difference in this city, right? We care about these kids. We want them to be educated and be strengthened in their education and strengthen their families. I'm passionate about building our community through education. And because the Orem School District feasibility study was indeed a central campaign issue, in February we as a council voted unanimously to conduct a feasibility study to see if our Orem children were receiving the best educational opportunities that they could.

Thank you.

I approached this issue without bias and with an open mind, and I committed to research and learn as much as I could about this decision. As Debbie said, I attended 3 different meetings of over 2 hours each with Rob Smith, the Alpine Business Director. He graciously explained school funding and reviewed many financial documents with Councilmember Debbie Larray and I. I have reviewed prior feasibility studies For Orem and for other cities, and this is over this past six months because this has been going on since February.

Right?

I've contacted individuals in the Canyons and the Jordan School District about their experiences and where they are today during the spring because I'm an old PTA mom. I decided I was going to go to the PTA and school community councils in Orem schools, and I was going to help the parents understand. what Orem City Council was doing. And I didn't advocate for anything. I was there to explain the process that we were following, that the reason that this was an Orem-only decision is because state code— we, Orem, had to do it alone in order for Orem alone to be able to vote on this. If we included other cities, then it would be a district-wide vote and likely would not pass, right? They wouldn't release Orem from Alpine. So I explained that to the parents and tried to answer any questions that they had. Um, and I wanted to help them know that the most important question that we were asking as a city council is, are Orem children, children receiving the best educational opportunities and funding that they can? I have listened to the residents the past 6 months, and I've heard their concerns about Alpine School District and also their gratitude for Alpine School District. Okay. And finally, I have carefully studied this feasibility study. I'd like to share with you, if you'll bear with me, just some of the things that I have learned. First of all, I want to say I learned this, and I've always known this, that we have great students and amazing and dedicated teachers and administrators. They do so much with so little, and I will state up front that I appreciate Alpine and what they do. I really do. My loyalty in this issue, however, is to our children and to our teachers. As I've had a number of people just recently reach out to me and say, hey, I'm just hearing about this, you know, kind of help me, bring me up to speed, I'm going to take just a minute To just review what we have as a city council have done. I'll try to do it quickly. So by way of a timeline, on February 8th, the Orem City Council voted unanimously to commission a study to see if an Orem school district would be feasible. Appropriate city codes were followed and a bid selection process was implemented. During the bid process, Orem residents reached out through our transparency portal that we set up for them to give us feedback, and they indicated that they wanted more than just a financial analysis in this study. They wanted to see what the educational applications were also. 2 companies submitted bids, and DECC was awarded the contract with the principles of Dr. Paul McCarty, who has extensive educational expertise and has received prestigious educational awards from our own state legislature. And Mr. Michael Winker, who is a former CFO of the Larry Miller Group, a $6 billion company, and he was the one who oversaw the financial aspects of this study. I would like to state that Dr. McCarty and Mr. Winker are men of impeccable abilities, notable achievement, and esteemed character. Neither one of them are prior associates or close friends of the mayor or the city council. Can we just put that to bed right now? And I'm going to say this one more time. They are men of great character. So I hope we can continue to respect them. And that the other— the messaging can stop. As I reviewed the feasibility study, a number of things stood out to me. I was very concerned that Alpine has known since a 2006 FEMA report that there are significant seismic issues in a large number of Orem schools, and that Alpine never disclosed this FEMA report to the residents, even in 2017 when Alpine presented its own own feasibility study to the then Orem City Council, it was never mentioned. My children attended Windsor Elementary, Windsor Elementary, a Title I school, and I reached out to Alpine after an earthquake in Italy where an old school collapsed on top of the children. I asked about putting— my neighbor was a FEMA, worked for FEMA, and he told me some things that they could do to mitigate damages in case So I asked Alpine about putting film on the windows and maybe reinforcing a few of the walls. I was told there was no money. I pushed and I pushed for 6 months, and anybody who knows me knows I try not to give up, but I got nowhere on that, right, because there was no money. And I, I accepted it. I know Alpine tries hard, right? I am not happy to learn that Alpine has known about this and for 16 years have not— has not made it a priority to rebuild the schools, especially since we have also learned from the study that in the past 20 years, $130 million has not stayed in Orem. I feel Alpine has been gambling with the lives of our Orem children. So I was in the 1989 San Francisco earthquake. I drove through that Cypress structure that collapsed every single day. I saw the destruction, I saw the war zone. So this really is something that I have experienced and needs to get some attention given to immediately.

Okay.

Alpine did recently rebuild Cascade Elementary, which then I was disturbed to find out had a better rating than Sharon Elementary, Windsor Elementary, and Orem Junior High. schools are Title I low-income schools that should have been built first. My— in the spring, like I said, I visited PTA and school community council meetings in Orem schools. I learned that teachers are being replaced and are not being replaced, and class sizes are going up. In a meeting at Foothill Elementary, a district representative told the parents that their class sizes in 4th through 6th grade, we're increasing to 34 to 37 students per class because that was the new traditional day format. And the Foothill parents said, we've always been on traditional day, why are you doing that to us? We've always been on there. And he said it was because there needed to be equity throughout the district. As an illustration, if there are 4 kids per square foot in the schools on the west side of the district, And Orem has 2 kids per square foot in their schools. Everybody needs to have 3 kids per square foot, which means Orem schools lose teachers. I learned that Northridge Elementary lost many of its specialties a year ago, as Alpine said they could no longer provide the same number of teachers. So art and chorus, and I think there was another specialty that was cut. Because of that, over 80 students left Northridge for other schools in and outside the district. Our student population is not declining because of children being born, it's declining in our public schools because students are leaving in Orem. In 3 other school districts, At the school community council meetings, I saw that Alpine is encouraging principals to use trust land monies to help fund teachers or FTEs in schools. Trust land monies— I served on the school community council, and, and that's a parent organization that's responsible for administering those trust land monies, right? Trust land monies are distributed by your parents in your schools. And those monies are specially targeted to support teachers and their classroom needs. That money is for our teachers, not to hire more teachers because the district says you're going to lose your art class if you don't, you know, add a half a credit. And don't shake your head because they— I saw the principal say it. He said the district pulled the half FTE and wants you to pay for it out of your school trust funds.

In a—

Timpanogos needed audio in their classrooms when COVID hit. With the masks, the students couldn't hear the teachers. A bid for classroom audio upgrades at Timpanogos had been approved, and that had been put on the capital needs list for Alpine School District 3 years earlier, but it had never been funded. The district once again had Timpanogos use their trust land monies and told them, you can put that under technology and we'll get it paid for under then—

under that.

When I asked Ada Wilson about that, she said that should have been a capital expense, that shouldn't have come out of your SEC funds. It's already been mentioned that Timpanogos needs new gym bleachers and has for some time. Lone Peak and Timpanogos were built at the same time. And I noticed this past February, March, I was watching a board meeting. We— Alpine funded Lone Peaks bleachers, but Timpanogos has still not been funded. They're still waiting. In a PTA meeting at Sharon Elementary, the principal shared that the district was cutting their Title I funding next year. Also, a board member in attendance told the parents that Sharon would soon be closed and Sharon and Windsor would likely be consolidated. I don't say any of this to blame Alpine School District. I know, I know that Alpine is doing the best that it can with what it has, but unfortunately our Orem kids are being negatively affected Because of the growth pressures that Alpine is feeling on the— from the west side. Now, on a positive note, I want to tell you some other research that I did. As I mentioned, part of my research was to call a number of people who were involved in the Canyons and Jordan split. Interestingly enough, everyone that I called had been against the split happening. They all told me that when I asked them, right? While we've all heard that the vote and the following split arbitration was contentious, and they all echoed the ugly divorce example that was mentioned today, they all said that they were glad that the split occurred, that they wouldn't be where they were had they stayed together. Both Canyons and Jordan Said they were better off because of the split. Let me tell you what Canyons has done in the 12, 13 years. I mean, you should really take out 2 years for COVID, so 11 years, right, since they've been in existence, right? They built the new Corner Canyon High School. They have rebuilt Brighton High School. They rebuilt Hillcrest High. They made an extensive remodel to Alta High. They have built a new Draper Park Middle School. They've rebuilt Midvale Middle School, rebuilt Butler Middle School, rebuilt Union Middle School, rebuilt Mount Jordan Middle School, remodeled Albion Middle School, remodeled Indian Hills Middle School. They have built a new Glacier Hills Elementary Glacier Hills Elementary, and that was consolidating Bellevue and Bell— I think Bella Vista were the 2 elementaries. So before the split, the word was that they were going to close 5 schools, but they've only ended up consolidating those 2. They rebuilt Midvale Elementary, they rebuilt Mid Valley Elementary, remodeled Peruvian Park. rebuilt Butler Elementary, rebuilt Alta View Elementary, and remodeled Sandy Elementary. They also remodeled Bellevue Elementary and repurposed it as an alternative high school and adult education building. They have completed 18 natural lighting projects and remodeled 6 offices for security. Canyons did all of this without raising taxes.

I spoke to them today.

I've spoken with 3 board members from Canyons. I've spoken with Canyons administration. Anything else that you're hearing about a 40% increase is incorrect. They added equalization bonds as they paid off the old Jordan District bonds, and they layered in the new bonds, and that's how they did this. An Orem District would be able to do many of the same things. I've learned through study and my research that an Orem district is financially feasible and will thrive. Rob Smith himself said that in a presentation. I am convinced an Orem district will allow our children to have the educational opportunities and the funding that they deserve. I recently heard the latest talking point that this is too rushed. The number one reason to put this on the ballot is to give Orem residents time to study this issue and make their own decision. We've got 3 months until November. The future of our schools is too important to be decided by 7 members of the City Council.

Thank you.

It should be decided by you, right? The residents of Orem. So I invite you over the next 3 months to read the study. I hope that tonight the Orem City Council will indeed let you decide what is best for your children and for your community. school or not, we all care about our community. Education lifts our community. I will be voting tonight to put this on the ballot so the voters can decide. Thank you.

I am so excited to be here tonight. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I just kept walking around the house today. I could hardly wait for this meeting to happen. So, and we've heard this a little, a few comments about this. Our founding fathers, Jefferson, Washington, Madison, and many others, they were willing to die for our right to vote. They were willing to sacrifice their lives so we would have the opportunity to have a voice in the destiny of our future, and I've heard people respond or comment about that tonight. So I have a unique perspective on this whole thing because I've been on the Alpine School District Board of Education. I was there for 6 years. So I'll share a couple of my thoughts about that and then my experience on the city council. But I want to make a comment. Notes I made during the comments tonight. Ruth and Megan, you're concerned about special needs. State statute requires districts take care of special needs children. That's not a— And, and on a personal note, you talked about Dan W. Peterson School. That's my great uncle. So my family does care about special needs. So a couple other comments. I do understand education. I grew up in a house of educators. My mother taught at Mountain View. My mother-in-law taught at Mountain View. My father-in-law taught at Orem High School. My father taught at BYU. I think I get a little bit of the importance of education.

Let me tell you about my experience on the school district.

So, you know, your job is to represent the city of Orem because you're elected. to represent the city of Orem. But the challenge is there are 14 schools in the district— excuse me, 14 cities. I wish there was 14 schools. 14 cities in the district. 14 cities. That's huge. What we heard tonight, over, over 90 schools. And so if you're on the school board, you're trying to balance out the needs of 14 cities, 90 schools. And so you're just, you're always deciding, do we move this money from this city?

We should stick it over here, move this money This side, should we close this, we do this.

I mean, that's the challenge they have with that big of a district. So 14 cities, 85,000 students. It's the largest district, of course, in the state of Utah. By the way, it's like 40th in the nation.

It's one of the largest school districts in the United States.

So the feasibility study has some interesting things that I was really curious to learn some of these numbers. I'll just share 2 of them. This was disturbing to me, but in the last 20 years, Orem has— there's been over $120 million— excuse me, over $130 million that has left Orem to build schools outside of Orem. In 20 years, there's been $130 million leave us as taxpayers to build schools outside of Orem. So there's one, one statistic. The other one is Orem has been the largest financial contributor to Alpine School District since it was founded over 100 years ago. It doesn't sound like we're a struggling little city. We've been the largest contributor to the district in every year, by the way, except for 3. 3 years we were— for 3 years we were number 2. That doesn't sound like a struggling city that couldn't pay for them.

themselves.

So now I get to serve on the City Council of Orem. And so now I get to address the concerns and the citizens of Orem. By the way, the student population of Orem is not decreasing. Do the math. How do we, how do we increase from 89,000 to 99,000? We have less students. That's not true. But we've heard this tonight. The decision is a lot of parents are saying, I'm gonna do something else. They're homeschooling their children. They're sending them to charter schools. They're sending them to private schools. But we have— our children, the number of children are increasing. So, you know, we talk about— I hear this economy of scale. That's something I heard. There's an economy of scale that bigger is always better. So I have a proposal. I haven't brought this up to the city council tonight. I don't know what they'd think about it, but maybe we ought to merge Orem with these 13 other cities that are in the district. And I don't know, we could call the name— the new city might be called, I don't know, Utah Valley City. You know, it'd take 14 cities to figure out what we're going to call it. But think of it, we'd only have one mayor, one city council. Think of the economies of scale, how much cheaper that would be. So, and people are shaking their heads no.

Well, wait a minute.

So don't you think the city people in Cedar Fork should have a vote in what's going on in Alpine? Don't you think the people in Vineyard should have a say in what's going on in Eagle Mountain or Saratoga Springs? I mean, we can see how silly that is, but that would be the challenge if all 14 cities said, let's all merge as one city. But that's the challenge Alpine has. I mean, it's just, it's just too big. That's the challenge. You've got 14 cities. So my comment about that is I don't think that bigger government or bigger school district is always better. I just don't, I don't think that makes any sense. So there's like, there's these comments about taxes, which I always have to smile, and Dave Spencer did a great job talking about it. Oh, our taxes go up every year. That's one thing you can count on, your taxes go up every year. But wouldn't it be nice if we kept our taxes in Orem? And if instead of sending $130 million to build schools outside of Orem— $130 million last 20 years— just keep it in Orem. Um, so another question I have is, if Orem is such a drain, if I would— okay, I want to go back now. I'm on the school board again. If I'm on the school board and if Orem is such a drain on the district, if I'm on the school board, I would put my arms around Orem and say have a good life, pat them on the back, slap them on the butt, and say, why don't you guys leave the district? You're a drain. You're, you're a big drain on the district. You're financially— we, you know, we've carried you for years. But we know that's not true. So absolutely, there's going to be a big fight to lose Orem. It's the biggest contributor to the district. So I think we need to take responsibility for the needs of our city and for the education of our own children. and make our children a priority. Uh, we heard from some of my other council members the feasibility study says that this could be done, it would be feasible, Orem could be their own school district. Now, I, you know, I'm talking about the $130 million and that we've been the largest contributor. I can't change the past. I, I can't go back and get our $130 million back. I can't. We can't do that. Only thing we can do is say Let's make the best of today and going forward, let's do what's best for Orem. That's the only thing we can do now is say, let's, let's go going forward. So my proposal is let's keep our money in Orem. So Orem, our logo, and it has been for years, and, and with the new election, the mayor is saying let's bring this back, is Orem is Family City USA. Let's take care of the families in Orem. Let's focus on our children. Now I want to say a comment about teachers because teachers have been really, you know, people are— everybody's choosing teachers now to use that as whatever their cause is. I talked to a teacher when I was on the school board, and she taught in elementary school, and I think your teachers can relate to this. She came up to me one time and said, Terry, You don't understand what it does to a class size or to my teaching to add 2 students. You have no idea what adding 2 students will do to my class. And then she taught me about that. And how hard that is if you add 2 students to be a teacher. And some of you are nodding. That is a huge thing if you're trying to teach phonics, if you're trying to teach mathematics, whatever the subject is, to add 2 students. And we see, we hear the You know, that it's going to continue to go up in the district. So why doesn't Orem have the best school district in the state of Utah? Why don't we have the best school district in the nation?

We have the money.

It is feasible.

Why don't we pay our teachers more? One of the studies that was in that feasibility study that they did showed statistically, if teachers are paid more, test scores go up. It's not interesting. And it makes sense, you know, if you're appreciated, if you're recognized for what you do, test scores go up. And in fact, Lenee was talking about Canyons and Jordan split. Did you know, my understanding is the district with the teachers that are the highest paid in the state of Utah is the Canyons? Oh, that's interesting. The district we're talking about that split and everything was terrible, they're the highest paid teachers in the state of Utah. So I think we need smaller class sizes. I think we need better paid teachers.

And we need—

well, another— just 2 more comments about this. What if all 7 of the school board members that were representing us lived in Orem? It's an Orem district. So, you know, we hear the problems of the, you know, they're trying to represent 14 cities. What if you had an issue and you can go to that school board member because it's your neighbor or someone lives across the street and you can talk to that school board member and say, here's my concern. How about if the superintendent of your district just represents Orem? If the only thing that superintendent cares about, he or she, is the future of Orem and educating our children? I think that'd be fantastic. So, by the way, When Orem becomes their own district, when Orem becomes their own district with over 15,000 kids, it will still be one of the biggest districts in the state of Utah. It's not like we'd be that small. We'd still be one of the larger districts in the state. So I won't talk about the Title I schools. That is something that, that makes me sick, though, to think that we have children that are attending Title I schools that are not safe. But my colleagues I think did a great job talking about that. There's talk about Vineyard and Lyndon. They are closely watching this, so there are sister cities. And absolutely, Orem becomes a district and we'll work through, you know, then we pursue what's best for us, what's best for other cities. Makes sense. I support our founding fathers. I support them telling us that they trust us and that we all have the right to vote. And I would just like to end what I'm saying about saying I trust the citizens of Orem. I think the citizens of Orem are— I think the citizens of Orem are well-read. I think they're passionate. I think the citizens of Orem will reach out and learn the issues. And I absolutely support letting the citizens of Orem decide what's best for Orem.

Thank you.

I promise to keep this under 20 minutes. I've, I've lost my voice from talking so much today, so it's been nice to have a little bit of a rest and to be able to listen to you this evening. And I believe that I can say that everyone here this evening comes from the same place. We all want what's best for our children. And I can honestly say that I believe that each of us on the dais feel the same way. We might have differing opinions and different ways of looking at how things could be put together. But I'm grateful to be able to serve with each of these individuals, and I'm grateful to be able to serve in this community where we can come together and have a discussion such as what we've had tonight. And I think it's motivating and encouraging. And so thank you for being here this evening. For those of you that were lucky enough to get a lottery ticket to be able to speak, thank you for speaking. For those of you that had the opportunity to sit and listen, thank you. for enduring a long meeting that's going to be just a little bit longer. Um, I want to thank each of you that have taken time to reach out and to share your concerns, and I want you to know that I've read every email, every text message, and listened to every voice message. I've read a lot of posts on social media, each being from concerned citizens, and no matter which side of this issue you're on. Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts and your perspective on this very important issue. I want to thank Mayor Young for his leadership. Thank you for learning of a concern and for doing something. I also want to thank Mr. Wanker and Dr. Paul McCarty for their hard work in putting this feasibility study together in a very short period of time. And no matter what comes of this, I would like to think that in these 2 gentlemen, I have 2 new friends. I appreciate the messages that I have received saying that I don't— if I don't vote a certain way tonight, I will not be reelectable. This is not about reelection to me. This is an irreversible decision that will have ramifications for generations and decades to come. I want you to know that this decision has not come easily for me. In fact, I'm, I'm still having a hard time with this. I've wrestled back and forth, and I've listened and weighed the issues and concerns. I felt very conflicted and at times very weighted and heavy, sometimes feeling of contention, bitterness, and divisiveness. Perhaps you felt these same feelings as well. If there is anyone here or anywhere else that I have offended in this process, I am sorry. I couldn't put my finger on why I was feeling this way, but I realized tonight, as listening to some of these comments, that it felt like we were going through a divorce. And not planning a wedding. I will come back to this in a moment. In Stephen R. Covey's book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, he shares an illustrative story to teach a principle. He's talking about business, about producers, the work— the workers who get things done, and the managers who oversee the work that the producers are doing, and they make sure that everything that they need to keep producing, and that they have everything that they need to keep producing. And then there are the leaders who climb to the top of the tallest tree, survey the entire situation, and sometimes they have to yell, wrong jungle. I was talking with a good friend just the other day, and he said something along the lines of, you've started and ran a successful business, sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith. We are talking about taking a leap But I don't know that I have complete faith. Base jumpers, before they jump, make sure that they have a parachute, that they're made aware of obstacles, and they know which way the wind is blowing. In my opinion, we are in the wrong jungle. This is not the best time to jump. I'm not aware of anyone here or anyone else that's involved in this situation that does not believe that there needs to be a split. Even Alpine School District feels this way. However, in my mind, the current climate leads me to feel that this may not be the best time to do this, to take this leap of faith. There are winds of recession, increasing inflation, which makes the cost of everything more expensive. Just look at the cost of pretty much everything that you have purchased lately. You, as we've heard, received our tax notice, and yeah, that went up too. In an Orem-only district, if there are any shortfalls If a new district comes up short, the Orem taxpayers would be solely responsible for that shortage. In my mind and in my feelings, there are too many unknowns and too much risk to put that on the Orem city taxpayers. We don't have enough details that, and as a community, we don't have enough unanimity to put this forward on a ballot. I would feel better, and to me it would feel better if we knew that there was a plan. plan in place and what that plan entails, a better idea of what those risks would, could, and will be. In my opinion, a better approach would be to work together, united, not divided. Let's take some more time, work together, and come together in creating something amazing. Let's start with a strong foundation of community. We have some of the very best and brightest influential individuals right here. in the city of Orem, city of Orem, business, civic, educational, religious leaders that I know would come together for this important cause. I'm concerned about the cost that it would cost to put this on the ballot, and if I'm being honest with myself, and if I'm doing what I was elected to do when I ran for this position, listening to the people that I have been hearing from and openly hearing and reading, this is not something most of the citizens want. I am concerned about the amount of money that will be spent. I'm concerned about the emotional well-being, the emotional well-being of our city at large. I'm concerned about teachers that are concerned about the future of their careers. I'm concerned about the, the senior member of our community who called me yesterday and was concerned also that her taxes have gone up. And that everything else that she has to pay for has gone up. And she said, please don't do this. Please don't put this on the ballot. If my taxes go up anymore, I won't be able to pay for my medications. I'm going to have to make a choice between medications and, and other important things. It does kind of feel like a divorce instead of a growing family. When your children grow up and get married, you work together planning a wedding with both families to make sure that the new couple will have a safe and wonderful start as they go off to start their new family. This to me feels like we've had a lot of lack of communication, a lot of love— lack of love and concern for the best interests of all involved. I would propose, and I would like to see us bring this back together so that we can plan not for a divorce, but for the creation of something beautiful, planned out, working together on all sides. And start this off in the right way, collaborating for what is best for all parties. I am asking today that we meet with and work with Alpine School District and begin planning a new district. It might not happen right away, but at least we can begin planning the creation of a new school district that can be strong, viable, and the cost shared across, across a few municipalities instead of one lone city. Could Orem do it? Yes, but at what cost? In my mind, there are too many unknowns. Is this the safest, wisest way to proceed? I don't think so. To me, it makes more sense to work with Alpine School District and to involve other municipalities. I am calling on our elected representatives, Sarah Hacken and Ada Wilson, the leadership of Alpine School District, representatives from the Orem City Council and staff, leader whose leaders of influence and other interested neighboring cities to come together and start planning for a new smaller school district, a district that could and would be smaller, more responsive to our needs and concerns, united and strong, but not all of the burden on the shoulders of Warren taxpayers.

Thank you.

From this study, we have heard a lot about unsafe schools, and just like you, I'm deeply concerned about this. And so I would like to ask Representative Hacken and Wilson this evening, will you please work with Alpine School District and make this a top priority in the upcoming budget for this year, that we can get these schools in a safe place so that we don't have to worry about that? In closing, I would like to just share a quote from a book by a man named Arthur Brooks. And I, you know, in these situations, you know that a lot of people are going to be mad at you and a lot of people are going to think you're really good. And I have friends on both sides of these issues, and I hope that after this evening we'll still be friends. And half of you are going to think I'm an idiot, and at least you're saying, no way, not a chance in hell we're going to ever be friends again. But I hope that we can still be respectful of one another. From Arthur Brooks in his book Love Your Enemies, he says, the important thing about contempt is that it is bad for us. Sometimes we don't like people who disagree with us, and we want to tell them they are idiots. And social media makes it easy to do so, and pundits get rich by doing it. And maybe it seems some of them deserve our contempt, but the important thing about contempt is that it is bad for us. It is my hope and dream that we may work through our disagreements without being disagreeable and come together as a community to find a solution that we can all feel good about, knowing that we have had the time and opportunity to do the work and research what needs to be done. And thank you for your time.

Thank you, Jeff, and thank you to all of you. I think you, the citizens of Orem, are very lucky to have an outstanding city council. These council members all want what's best for Orem, and they want what's best for you, and they take their job very seriously. I believe that everyone in this room wants the same thing. We want the best education possible for our children. We want our teachers To be paid fairly. We don't want our taxes too high. The issue before us is that we have different visions of how we can get there. We had the same conversation back in 2006. And, and again in 2017, we heard identical arguments each time. When you go back and read the meeting transcripts from 2006. It's incredible. It's déjà vu. It's the same program, same arguments on both sides. I do respect those of you who have reached out to me and made reasonable arguments, good arguments, and engaged in a civil conversation. I really appreciate all of you tonight. I think we've had a very civil meeting with a difficult situation. I don't do social media, never have. But since becoming mayor, I've had the unfortunate experience of people regularly sending me things that are being said about me online. And this has been quite the eye-opener. I've learned online that I was very— I, me personally, Was very involved in the deck study behind the scenes. That's interesting because I've been working about 70 hours a week since becoming mayor. Somehow, I guess I must be doing my secret deck job between 2 AM and 5 AM each day. Obviously, this is completely unfounded and true, and it's unfortunate that it's being said. Then even better, I've read that I'm doing this, that I'm going through this exercise for the money. And I have secret plans to enrich myself and the donors to my campaign. So some of you campaign donors out there, just wait, your check is coming. Again, this is ludicrous. The disturbing part about this, though, Is that people are being misled, which is a major problem. There's so much information out there that the average person— for the average person just showing up to the conversation, it's difficult to know what is true. I believe that if just one-third of what is being said online were true, then myself and the entire City Council would obviously vote against it. I mean, why wouldn't we? With that in mind, I think it's important to understand what is true. What do we actually know? We do know the test scores are declining. This is the measure that tells us how effectively our children are learning. This is a major concern. We know that our class sizes are increasing. Class size has a direct impact on learning. Nationally, class sizes are 17. Provo's at 23. Alpine, as it's been said, is projected to be over 30 in the upcoming school year. We know that for some reason, 1 out of 6 kids— it's actually 1 out of 5.5 kids that live in Orem's boundaries— are not attending Alpine School District. That's a concern. We know that many of you have asked that we meet to discuss with This with Alpine School District. I agree completely. That is why we have tried to meet with Alpine School District twice, once when the study was completed and again before the meeting tonight. They either canceled or extended the meeting, which made it impossible for us to meet with them. We know Alpine School District wants to pass the largest bond in their 107-year-old history. We know that this will almost double the amount of debt that you, the taxpayers, will be liable for. As your representatives, we have an obligation to figure out and understand what is going on. If you were to leave tonight and go sign up to double your personal mortgage, wouldn't you make sure you understood the details? There are those who say That they don't want to consider splitting because they're against tax increases. I obviously agree with that. I don't like taxes any more than anybody else, and I agree with that in concept, but let's look at the details. Alpine School District is one of the main recipients of your tax money. 100% of what you pay in state income tax goes to education, which includes Alpine School District. A little over 70% of what you pay in property tax goes to education. Property taxes go specifically to ASD. Over the past 20 years, the Consumer Price Index has averaged 3.2%, or about 64% cumulative. That's the amount that your wages, inflation, and the general cost of living has increased. By comparison, during that same period, the taxes you paid Alpine School District have gone up 165%, or an average annual rate of 8.2%. So 3.2% cost of living versus 8.2% tax increase.

This means you—

the taxes you paid to Alpine School District have gone up at a rate 2.5 times higher than the cost of living. So there's really no argument about whether or not your taxes will increase over time. Alpine has proven that. And not— that's not a negative thing, that's just a fact. That's what education costs. With this new bond, your taxes will continue— my guess is that your taxes will continue that trend and consistently be higher, significantly higher than the cost of living. The real issue here is whether or not you want your children to benefit from your tax money. That's the issue. It's not taxes going wherever taxes go. It's will your children benefit From those taxes that are paid. It's simple. Will Orem kids benefit from Orem taxes? We just authorized, as was mentioned, rebuilding the city center because we need it. Prior to that, the city authorized the building of a new rec center. These are built in Orem and as such paid for by Orem taxpayers. We don't expect Orem taxpayers to pay for an American Fork city center. Or a Lehigh Recreation Center? That doesn't make any sense. Then why over the past 20 years are we okay with warm taxpayers paying $130 million towards schools in other cities? That doesn't make sense either. It makes even less sense when you consider that we still have, as been, as has been mentioned, 3 schools— Sharon Elementary, Windsor Elementary, and Orm Junior— that were written up 16 years ago. Years ago during the 2006 FEMA study. They were deemed very poor, which is a classification of significant loss of life. They had some work done on them, but they still have issues. Are we really okay letting this go on another 16 years? Why, why, why is it going to change? How do we justify sending our tax money out of Wharton to build incredible state-of-the-art schools while some of our schools are falling down? In the most recent 2022 FEMA report, there were 11 Orem schools that needed attention. Where have our representatives been? Why is our tax money currently shipped out of our city while our schools are ignored? We don't— we do know from the comprehensive feasibility study that was done that Orem School District is financially feasible. There's no question about that. Everyone agrees. If you don't like the feasibility study, from a common sense standpoint, if an Orem School District were formed with 14,882 students, nationally it would rank in the top 5% in terms of size. Not just in Utah, whatever. No, it would be in the top 5%. In other words, an Orem School District would be larger than 95% of all of the districts In the United States. So we— if we're bigger than 95— I mean, we're talking about a smaller school district, we're talking about how it's the end of the world because we're so small. No, we would be bigger than 95% of the school districts out there. If we can't figure it out with the ingenuity and the brainpower around here, then we've got something wrong. Now I understand I understand and empathize with those who don't think the Orem School District's a good idea. There are different points of view on everything, and I completely respect that. At the same time, I've heard from countless citizens who believe that it is a great idea and should have happened years ago. So I've got a lot of people who think it's the greatest thing ever and a lot of people who think it's Bad idea. So that brings us to our conversation tonight. We're not deciding whether or not an Orem— whether or not Orem should have its own school district. We're having a discussion on whether or not all of the citizens of Orem should be allowed to have their voices heard, or just a portion. We are deciding whether or not all the citizens should be allowed to vote on this important issue. This issue of voting has taken place many times before. This is not new to Orem. The 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, 23rd, and 24th Amendments to the Constitution were all battles over who can vote and who cannot vote. In each amendment, rights were restored to various groups of people giving them their constitutional right to have their voice heard. With my vote tonight, personally, I'm going to vote for the People's Forum. And, and, and most importantly, Allow them, or you, the freedom to decide what is best for your children and grandchildren.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can we have a— can we have a motion? Mayor, I'd like to make that motion. Sorry, Mayor, sorry, I need to interrupt you. Really quick.

Sorry, Mr. Peterson. So the, the state law requires that as part of the request to initiate this process to create a new school district, you're supposed to designate one person as a contact sponsor of the request and up to a total of 5 individuals who would be regular sponsors, if you will.

So the motion that is made, if it—

I'm assuming it's made to move forward with this, should also indicate who you want to designate as the contact sponsor of the request, as well as who would serve as the other sponsors. And maybe there needs to be some discussion on who you want to serve in those roles.

Okay, who usually serves in that role?

I don't know that there is a usual. I think it's just entirely up to you.

Is this just someone for this?

Yeah, it would be somebody, somebody on the city council, because you're the ones making the request. So— Well, Stephen, is that just the Is it just the one, or do we have to name the other 5 citizens at large right now?

No, no, no.

So, so there's a maximum of 5 sponsors.

It doesn't have to be 5, it could be less, but they all need to be city council members.

Okay.

So, I mean, what would you recommend?

Well, I mean, Mayor, as mayor, you could be the contact sponsor if you're willing. willing to serve as that, and then whoever else is willing to serve as a, as a regular sponsor, I think you could just express your willingness to do that, and then Mr. Peterson could include that in his motion. What does that mean to be a sponsor?

What does that entail?

You know, the statute just says we're supposed to designate those sponsors. I guess that just means you are the ones who are sponsoring the request. The state law doesn't assign any additional duties to. You just are the ones who are the sponsors of the request.

Okay, so it's up to 5.

It's not up to 5. It doesn't have to be 5. It could be only 1. It could be 2, 3, or 4.

How about I propose this? How about I propose that anyone who's in favor of this motion fulfill this responsibility?

And I mean, Let me suggest an alternative. Okay, if you're willing to say, I'm willing to be the, the contact sponsor, anyone else who's willing to be a sponsor of the request can indicate right now, and then Mr. Peterson will know how to make his motion.

I would like to be a sponsor. Perfect.

I'm happy to serve as a sponsor, Mayor.

So I'll be a sponsor too.

Does anyone else want to be a sponsor?

I can serve as a sponsor.

Okay, Jeff would like to be a sponsor. I'll be the mayor.

Okay, that's fine.

Okay, did you catch that?

No, sorry.

So we have 5 on the city council would like to be sponsors. Okay. So, and were you going to be the contact sponsor? So yeah, Jody, the city recorder, just reminded me that the— I'm not sure if she—

I have to go back and look if it was the contact sponsor, the all the sponsors. You have one responsibility working on the voter information pamphlet.

Now you tell us.

I know, so I was trying to sneak it by you, but she—

So what does that mean?

So basically the voter information pamphlet is just formulating the argument For, uh, for the, the ballot process.

For the ballot, yeah, the reasons to support. So we work with you to figure this out?

Yeah.

Okay. And, and, and/or others, but yeah, that's basically your main responsibility. Okay, sounds good.

Mayor, just if I may, so as a sponsor, your name would appear on the voter information pamphlet as an individual, that is, if the vote is for For this measure?

Yeah, I, I'm not sure about that, but it would appear in the resolution.

So yeah, I don't know if you've seen the draft resolution, but in the draft resolution we have a person listed as the contact sponsor, as— and you have their name, address, and telephone number. Those things are required by state law to be included. So we just have a spot in the resolution for the contact sponsor and the other sponsors that will just be part of the resolution that we submit to the Utah County Clerk.

My city phone number, right?

Yes.

Whatever phone number you want.

All right.

All right. So, we wound up with, I'll be the main contact sponsor. And then Dave, Lennay, Terry, and Jeff will be the other sponsor. Yeah, Jeff said he wanted to do it.

Okay.

Okay.

So yeah. So we'll make—

so—

Isn't Steve Earl great? You know, let's just give him a round of applause.

So, Mayor, I'd like to make a motion. Okay, I make a motion of the resolution that the Orem City Council requesting the initiation of the process to create a new school district with boundaries contiguous with the boundaries of the City of Orem and requesting that a measure to create said new school district be placed on the November 8th 2022 ballot for the voter approval.

And the sponsors—

yeah, add the sponsors. And the sponsors named as Mayor Young as sponsor, contact sponsor, as contact sponsor, and additional sponsors as Dave Spencer, Lynnae Millett, Terry Peterson, and Jeff Lansom. Okay.

I will second that motion.

All right, should we vote?

Nay.

Nay.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

And I am a no, not yet, without more understanding.

That was a nay? Okay. All right, the motion passes.

Are you ready for another motion, Mr. Mayor?

I would like to move to adjourn this meeting.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Thank you for coming. We'll adjourn the meeting.