City Council · 2022-09-13

15 trees that we were evaluating to ensure that those trees were preserved, in particular the Freedom Tree. And then there's these 2 ginkgos there that were of the highest priority from what we understood from the group. And so between the building and those trees and some of the other trees that impact— and trying to get 60,000 square feet of building on 3 acres. Levels located there, it begins to sort of shape and form your building to some degree because those limitations become opportunities. And so you're going to see the development from this very, very basic diagram into an actual floor plan, and then we're going to show you some early looks at what we're looking at 3-dimensionally from a rendering and elevation standpoint. Does that sound like an okay agenda? Am I covering everything for those who've been watching?

Sounds good.

Sounds really good.

All right, just a little zoom in there. You'll see at the time the building footprint was disrupting that corner tree, and then these— some of these trees here are also so close to the building that they're going to have to be relooked at or come down.

You'll see that in our newer plans.

So this is the more current footprint of the building. So again, the shape has changed and morphed a little bit as we developed the floor plan and distributed programs throughout the building. But in essence, taking that shape and form, the nice thing is that the building is still— the Freedom Tree is still in the clear. All these trees that we thought were going to be compromised or still being compromised.

It really hasn't changed a whole lot from that standpoint.

We're trying to maintain a buffer to the existing building to allow Layton to be able to have construction teams working in and around the building and not compromise the footings of that existing structure.

Joe, is it effectively 2 buildings?

It's not, it's one building. Okay, and this is connected with the lobby space.

Okay.

So naturally, it's a great, great point, Tom, is that one, one thing that we've been trying to do is to establish a part of the building that's going to have the EOC, Mayor's Office, those elements, that's going to be designed to a higher structural capacity. So structural rating, in a way. So the lobby becomes the sort of unifying element that stitches the 2 sides of the building.

So it is going to be built like it's 2 separate buildings as far as earthquake structure?

Earthquake structure, yeah.

You won't notice it. Yeah. But yeah, there will be a building joint along this edge that ensures that this stays usable and standing in not any earthquake event, but many.

Right.

Yep, thank you.

So that concept is still carried through.

We think it's still working. I do have a question.

So part of this, we were using money for an emergency command center. Which of those buildings is going to be that portion?

So that'll be in this side.

Okay.

We call it an EOC.

So You got it right there.

So maybe one clarification, this from past presentations. It'll all be built to good seismic code standards. And so it would conceivably all stay standing, but one site will stay operational or more operational than the other. That's, that's the distinction.

They have separate Utilities.

So the utilities are all going to be—

and this is another change, a recent change, I think you all know about it—

we've added a basement to this side of the building.

So that means your electrical room, your comm room, all the infrastructure will be located over there. Is that why it went to $60,000?

So it was $60,000, and then the basement actually adds an additional $7,000. And so right now we're tracking at 62,000-ish for those upper floors after all the programs have been put in. And then we have 7,000+ square feet in the basement. So you're adding up total building around 7,000 square feet.

How many did you just do in the basement on the one side?

On the right side, we could do both, but again, with budgets and cost right now, the basement has Some of those utility rooms in it.

Is it below grade?

Yeah, here's your basement. So right now the basement has all this extra space in it for storage for future build-out.

I mean, what would the other basement at price point?

Uh, we haven't priced that out. Landon, you want to do some—

Did I have a few minutes?

Not sure.

30 seconds though.

Yeah.

But one of the key things here is that with this being the only basement providing 2 means of egress out of the stairs, and we have a core and then all these utility functions, and then across the hall our elevator is actually located over there.

So that's why our seismic jump is actually located in there to capture the elevator, at least one elevator coming in the basement that connects to it.

What is the seismic ratings that you're comparing to one side versus the other and all that?

So, uh, the whole building will meet the current seismic code, and then this is a step up from what the code requires.

For essential facilities, it's Category 4. So when you have essential facilities like fire and other things that need to be operational, that's what that is. That's Category 4? Category 4. And then the rest of it is Category 3.

Like our fitness center, for example, we built a Category 3 stadium.

The library was at 3?

The library at the time, the children's library was, yes. Public safety building was actually a 3 as well.

In the library hall?

That is a 3.

Yes, those, uh, considered essential facilities.

So public safety in today's code would required Category 4 for parts of the building. So it gets down to specific parts of buildings, but in order to do it, many of the public safety buildings just do it for the whole building or do a strategy like what we're talking about. So for an emergency operations center, EOC, having it in Category 4, I don't know that it's required, but it's wise.

There's wisdom in that.

Yes.

Sure, I'm shooting from the hip back here, but I think it'll be around $2 million to add this to the basement.

There's— it's not built out, it's raw.

It's raw, yeah, not built out. There's some issues with the soil on that site. The borings that we got back show that that portion of the building, there's some, um, some rock that was encountered, so we don't know the full extent of what that If it's something that we can dig through, or if it's something that would have to be blasted or some sort of rock mitigation. So there is that caveat. This side of the building that we are doing the basement didn't encounter that rock.

So it didn't have it?

It didn't have it.

So it's not the warm potatoes that we call them, the rocks? It's something more significant?

We believe so, yes.

So, so we're spending $2 million for storage, is that right? We're gonna put a basement, just have storage for $2 million.

So this is $2 million?

If we add the other—

Oh, if we go the other way. Okay.

Well, I don't know what the cost of this is, but this does have your server room, your electrical room, your comms rooms, those things, those sort of essentials that pulled it out of the upper floors, allowed it to come down here. And then you have storage that can be you know, built onto it in the future.

What's the square footage of the current building?

This one is like 49,000 square feet.

I was going to say 48,000 square feet.

So this goes plenty of room for growth.

And frankly, this building is not really an efficient use of space. So as you look at what we have, Granted, we're only adding, let's say, 13,000 or 14,000 square feet, but it's far more efficient than what we have in this space.

We currently don't house fire administration here. That would change with this new—

They would come out of, come out of the public safety building, and then that building would be put to specific police use.

So if we built a basement, what would we go there? It could just be storage, or that would be working.

Well, you know, we added the additional basement.

Yeah, the basement that you've been there.

The conversation that we've had with— in fact, the conversation that Mayor and I had was, you know, it could be in the short term, it would be flex space. It wouldn't be designed for, you know, people, but it would be designed for— there are certain things like we have to have archive space, we have to have server rooms, utility rooms. We would anticipate, for example, our facilities group needs to have space. Those kind of uses we could put in the basement, not really finish them out. If they're storage, we can cage them, for example, put chain-link fencing around specific compartments and use it for that in the future. If we ever wanted to use it for people, then we could use some of that space for people, understanding that we could never obviously do away with the server room or some of the mechanical rooms. But the moment we start finishing it, we start daylighting it and such, then it drives up the cost pretty significantly.

I mean, I guess you build and then you build as we go, expand.

I mean, And we have some opportunity for expansion that we'll show you on the other floors that I think would be cheaper and more desirable space to finish out than going into the basement. Okay, I mean, Joe and Jay are the experts.

So each plan, you can see, uh, find the color on it to sort of delineate the different department and program groups, and then we have a plan without the covers on it if you need to zoom in and want to look at it up close, if that makes some sense.

So here on the ground floor, again, this is facing the existing building where the parking lot is. This is facing the street, so there'll be somewhat of an entrance from the street side, but it won't be too heavily used.

is what we're anticipating.

And then that lobby space that allows sort of that connection between the two. You can see this sort of that stitching sort of community space that brings both sides of the building together. We have the council chambers and community room with a divider wall, entrances into this room so that you can use that room and use those rooms separately. We have this room here, which is basically the equivalent of this room. Directly, it has secure access to the council dais. And then from the dais, you also have secure exits to the stair. That stair leads up to the mayor's office. So that's all sort of private, secure zone. And then exit out that door right there. Something that we're seeing in some of the other city hall facilities is providing that extra layer of security.

So the workroom, that's the enter through the lobby right there, then you can enter into the council chambers in the back hall.

Is that what that is?

Yes.

Okay, what's the room just below the workroom?

So this is a serving kitchen.

Okay.

So to serve for anything going on in here or serve anything that's going on in this room. So it's sort of at the knuckle there to provide services to those spaces. Then you have your core with restrooms, stairs, and then an additional conference room. That's, you know, this is an open lobby and access to that room there. This is storage for all that seating.

So that community meeting, that seating, that's made to put the chairs out, pick them back up.

Yeah.

And then there's a curtain between it, or a—

Yeah, it's a type of thing, a bi-folding wall. It's like, you know, pretty robust walls. I've seen those in multipurpose areas.

Yeah, that comes across so that this room can be used separately from that room.

What's the capacity of what the council by itself—

council plus—

136 seats.

136 up here and then 136 down below.

136 down below.

And how does that compare to where we're at?

So this is larger.

Um, well, what's the seat count in here? No, we were trying to find that.

I think it was like 200, 100.

Yeah, I think when we set up for the meeting a few, a couple months ago, we filled both rooms with chairs. I think we're around 200 or so, both of these, both of them.

So this, this alone, what is that, 272?

Yeah, yeah, it's quite a bit bigger. I mean, if you have something going on in here, you can close that and it's a smaller crowd, more intimate room, and then have this for community group use or whatever.

Run 2 things at the same time.

So they could be— so there would be sound would be controlled enough if there were a community meeting going on at the same time as council?

Yeah, maybe.

So it's not perfect sound separation, but it's, you know, so if you Been to classrooms that have not the accordion door, the actual wall folding door that has the hydraulic thing at the bottom that seals it all up. So that's what—

Is there a door on that wall so you can enter from the back into there?

So there could be.

If you have a meeting, you can't get into it if the door's closed, right? There's a lobby space.

Yeah, you can come out in the lobby space and come back in that way. But they do make these with doors if that was desired.

Yeah, total is 272. Yeah, so I might divide it evenly.

Would that be one of the main conference rooms that they would use?

No, not necessarily, but this would be a large community room, for example, if there were public meetings, or for example, if there were, like we've talked about, open houses for particular issues or community engagement activities, we could use the entire space, or we could block off the front piece of it and use the back piece of it independent.

All—

there would be no fixed seating here, so it would all be something that could You could put a large horseshoe table in there if you wanted to.

It's as flexible as we can make it.

Yeah.

And then you'll find throughout is that there are additional conference rooms and meeting spaces throughout the building that are available to all. Yeah, there's a principle of just keeping them adjacent to common spaces so they can be used by the departments.

apartment that needs them, but then someone else in the building that needs them could also access them.

How high will the ceilings be on that part?

So that's still to be determined, but maybe 12 feet or so.

So probably lower than this one.

These are significantly higher. They actually, for much of the life of this room, are lowering. You can see some of the markings on the brick. It had a drop-down ceiling, so it was significantly lower. I'm guessing it would probably be about 12 or 13 feet.

So even that means that our first floor floor is going to have to be taller. So we haven't gotten to that level of discussion with the group yet on floor-to-floor heights.

Yeah, those sort of things.

Because high ceilings would make— I mean, that'll make that area, right?

Yeah.

I mean, higher ceilings.

It feels significantly better.

Yeah, 12 feet is pretty low.

Isn't 12 feet low for that?

It's as low as I would recommend.

So 14 is the minimum?

I think 12 would be minimum in my mind, but I would— 14.

Yeah, it's a pretty big space.

So your standard room is 9 feet.

You know, you're lucky to have a 10-foot ceiling, so it's 2 feet taller than that. I'm still trying to get hoops that are lower, so 14 would be perfect.

Does anyone know what Provost City Council room that they just built?

What the height is?

I don't remember off the top of my head. I could look it up though.

That'd be good to know because that, that is a nice space.

I might tour it.

A nice feel.

I think technically, if I remember right, Brian, you correct me, but we seat more people than theirs.

I think so. Yeah, because theirs are separate, right?

They broadcast their council room to a separate community room.

If you walked into Provo, as you walk in on the north entrance, you go left to the city council, to the right is where that overflow space is. Yeah, I've heard.

Just wondering.

Yeah, so Brian, I think, has the plans about it.

Okay, but I mean, we could—

we haven't really gone into the details as to Ceiling heights and stuff, it's all, it's all still available for discussion. Decrease, increase, obviously at a cost, but we haven't talked about that really.

Maybe really quick while Brian's doing that, the other side of the building is your public services and infotech. We have a fitness area. and a small amount of lockers and a couple showers for use for the whole building.

We're seeing anything behind this point, so there's more private use for the occupants of the building. So that fitness room, and then those 2 men's and women's locker rooms, shower.

So who's the fitness center—

who's that for?

So that's for All the employees and fire department.

So where does the fire department go now?

Well, they have one over there.

We work out downstairs in the basement of the building we're in currently.

Just for the—

just public services is our 311 center, so it's labeled public services, but That's our 311.

Yeah, so you have your 311 front and center, right off of the lobby. And here's your 2 elevators.

Then we have an open sort of public stair going up through the lobby space.

This is a means of egress stair that goes down to the basement.

So this, this was needed because this cannot be counted as a need to be addressed, but it is the more common way that everyone— similar to the photo.

Any questions here?

So public services currently in this building?

Yeah, it's our help center right at the southern end of the building where we have the essentially the customer service area.

Okay, so let's say they still have access to that.

Yeah, so the first thing people would walk into this building and they would see the 311 center and all of our public service agents.

Okay.

And InfoTech?

That's our IT, information technology.

Yes.

So you can see InfoTech as the meat of the room. You don't show that area. The lobby space of the building, you could check out that room and use it as a—

so it's that sort of multi-use principle. Hey Joe, just pardon the interrupt, just going off the brick size, this room's about 17.5 feet.

But it's one story, right?

Yeah.

And so Provost is—

I'm just—

I just told him it just takes a minute to load.

It's a big file.

Any additional questions on this level? Um, the next plan is the same level, and I presume it's a portion of the plan.

So if you're paying your utilities, is that on that level 1 somewhere?

Yes, at the 311 center. The first thing as you walk into—

oh, right side. Sorry, these are your customer service. This is sort of a sub-waiting area as you come in.

And if you get a, like, a passport processed or fingerprinting, that also would be there. There'll be space there.

Public space. Passport room, fingerprinting room located right there.

So from that waiting room, these are service stations as well, all across there. It really gives you the room that you need to service in a better way.

You're a little tight here and you have no room for growth. And the supermajority of residents that come in day to day, that's the only room they're going to probably come to with In and out a little bit. Some other use, of course, but the supermajority just come to the health center.

So one thing we've tried to do is meet with each of the departments to go through the programmatic needs, and we'll continue to do that. There's going to be refinements made along the way, but we're getting down to looking through greater levels of detail.

You flip the door this way, you put cabinetry here. I think we've captured most of the spaces, not all of them, but most of them.

Okay, should we go to the second floor? So the second floor here on the east side is Development Services. That's the largest sort of programmatic end, um, department. City. And then here's where we have the fire EOC. This public meetings is the EOC, so that's your actual EOC room, and it's dividable as well. And then it has, uh, that's a break room/service kitchen to serve what's going on there.

The Republican headquarters and legislative operations were taking place there. It provides for the long hours that we're expecting here. Is it great, the restrooms? Where are the restrooms?

Yeah, so this is restrooms right here, and then there's restrooms over on this side.

And are they similar on the first floor?

Yeah, they're identical. hallway, and then stairs, and then this is electrical and commons that go up, and then the 2 elevators. And then what's shown in the light blue is the floor outline. So this would be, the white area is open to below.

Okay.

So this is the circulation center. So you get to the top of the stairs and you can circulate to these areas. It becomes sort of that, you know, The amount of people you're moving in here, we have to allocate a little more space to provide that movement to people moving in and out.

When I said public meeting EOC, EOC is when you have a serious emergency, right? But as far as the rest of the time, what do you use that for?

Fire training room.

We currently meet in the Public Safety Building, and that EOC is on that It just basically replaces that space for us. We bring our 4 stations into the central location rather than us all go to one of the remote stations and delay responses outside their area. So when we do department-wide training, it'll be here centrally located. So that, that would be the use, and that would be used several times a week.

Okay, for those training events.

So it's kind of a dual purpose, then? It's EOC for emergency, but you're able to use it for A lot of other things.

And it's also divided. And so then there are breakouts for the EOC, different branches within the EOC, or different training events that we do within the fire service.

Does it have a mini kitchen up in that corner?

Yeah, that's sort of the kitchen break area.

So I'm guessing because that's the EOC, that's going to have the high-tech You're going to have all your— anything you're going to need into the future for emergency management.

All of our communications and power.

Satellite stuff.

Any questions on this level?

Joe, maybe you can speak to the patio for future build-outs.

So, so back here, the first floor footprint, just because of the demand of all the occupants and spaces that are needed down there, first floor comes out to here. And second floor, all these spaces didn't need that much space, so there's this patio space that could be future build-out if you need it.

What's the square footage of that?

1,340 each floor. So about 2,600 square feet total. So Chief, that's enough space for your group? Yeah.

So if we were to add those back in right now, that would be on top of the $62,000-ish that we're tracking at the moment.

That includes the $62,000. Oh, this includes the $62,000. Yeah.

Do we have 4 conference rooms in Development Services? Are those conference rooms?

Uh, so yeah, you know, not an appliance.

Yeah, they're also available for everyone to use.

Yeah, so you come from the public side to use them too.

And then if you want any one of those— this doesn't show up really well, but there's an open door right there as well.

And what's the top left area?

That's our front desk, help desk. You'll notice on every floor there's a conference room in a similar location for everyone to use, department and public. Or other apartments that has that core of restrooms.

So you do have some restrooms here in the back.

Any other questions? Okay.

So level 3 is your mayor, admin, human resources, recorder's office, and then legal offices as well.

And this is a break room for the entire building. So we're going all the way down to the lobby.

What's that?

Is this still open all the way down the lobby?

This is open all the way down the lobby.

But the center stairs go all the way up? That's right.

To do that, to accomplish that, we will be having glass on this 3rd level, so it won't be technically an atrium.

Yeah, that's probably right.

Yeah, there's a break room back here, again, for the entire building's kitchen. seating areas and things, and then, you know, access. If this is kept as a patio, they have access to that.

What's that gray again to the left of Legal by the atrium?

So this is, uh, those are the elevators. This is the mechanical room.

Restroom stairs, restrooms.

Just for the point of clarification too, the The recorder suite is not exclusively the recorder. There's code enforcement that is part of that as well.

So it's not— is that where Ken will be?

Yes.

So as far as the conference rooms on that floor, so that would be that back right corner would be conference room.

So there's a conference room here that will be accessed So for example, you would have conference rooms. You would have a large conference room right here, your office.

Then there would be that closet conference room that is available to all employees.

The, the one on the left side is internal, but the other ones will—

well, then there's the one on the legal department for sure, and then the other one, level 3, we'll get around to it.

The west, or that it would be the south, right?

This is south, but this is also where We have that clock from the exterior that you see. Yeah, so we were thinking glass right there. Yeah, again, that's an idea that we'll run past everybody and see how they feel about it.

Jamie, I just want to represent too that that EOC, the north space, is a large room. The mayor—

I mean, if we bring in another city or any one of the other departments, have a large gathering, that space is clearly available. For a larger—

outside of the smaller conference rooms at any time.

The conference room in the mayor admin area is central. If we need it on the perimeter, we can look at that.

No, give everybody a window, right? I like that.

Okay, so the idea with this in many respects was to design the space so that it's not exclusively territorial, and by that, for example, conference rooms have accessibility not just to one department but all departments. We have common break rooms that's available.

When we first started through this process, we actually had a break room on all 3 levels.

The thought was, well, really what most departments want is they essentially want a counter to put treats on. They don't necessarily need a whole break room. We want to bring employees together, and let's build a bigger kind of common break room. So we congregated that space on one floor.

And it allowed us to free up space on the other floors for other operational needs.

Plus you can walk upstairs and get exercise before you drink your unhealthy thing.

Exactly, exactly.

So you two have to walk downstairs and walk back upstairs.

We have to walk downstairs to work out and then upstairs to get your unhealthy drink.

Any other questions? Any questions on any part of the plan?

So how's the mayor and admin— how's that broken out? Control plus control. This is going to be a complicated answer, but if you've been in this council chamber as a They have varying ceiling heights because there's clouds that come down into the ceilings. So the lowest part of one of the wood ceilings is about 12.5, and one of the higher parts is about 13.5 to 14 feet. Okay, the structure— floor-to-ceiling structure is about— that's nice.

So their floor-to-floor is like 20?

Because in that one section of the building you actually have a floor and a half. So if you go up the stairs right next to the City Council Chambers, it's a, it's a 1.5 floor to get to the 2nd floor. Thank you.

So this is the mayor's suite. So coming off the stairs, this is about in there where there's glass. This looking down into the lobby.

This is your bottom waiting area, and then executive assistants sort of approaching everyone.

Once you get past the sort of secure point— so it's almost a double secure point— that you do have a private restroom that's kind of down off the hall.

The mayor's office located here, city managers, assistant city manager, large conference room.

central.

So if you're bringing someone from lobby, there's a direct access to the conference room.

Deputy City Manager, additional office, and 2 folks located there, Econ Development, Customer Service, all of them having access.

Again, it's central here, but everyone on the perimeter, so everyone has windows and access.

And then in the top right, that's another conference room, right?

Is that not— that's City Manager's conference room.

And he has a table and a space too.

All of this, all of the department directors near— oh, I see how we had, uh, conference tables put in. So most, well, all of the spaces are relatively consistent size. So for example, the department directors, their office space is one consistent size. We have a supervisor, their office is one consistent size. The cubicles are one consistent size. So sometimes the concern is people get out there, take measures, figure out how big is my space compared to your space. We counseled with the architects to make a relatively There is a balcony from the mayor's office.

This sort of wedge piece there is a private balcony. You do have access to it from the lobby.

That could be left. Mayor's office and city manager access to that balcony. The balcony, that's used to take notes. So Karen Tobias, she'd be in— she'll be in this suite. She's in this suite, so there's now space for her to be in the mayor's office.

So for example, you see the top where it says office right here?

Oh yeah, that could be Karen's office. We haven't—

for some positions, we haven't identified names we've just identified.

So like, so Pete would be on this wall?

No, he would be down at the— where it says community customer service, that space.

Yeah, right next to the main conference room.

Who's the bottom one?

I can't read that. That's human resources.

Oh, he's at the manager's office.

Human resources.

I'm sorry, the next one up.

Risk manager.

Risk manager.

Yes.

So everybody has a place.

Manager here.

This is waiting for resources.

You enter from the hallway here. That's the waiting room reception. Cubicle space. Risk manager.

This is just an office. Customer service manager.

There's a flip copy room that's central.

This connects to the mayor's suite as well. There's another small—

How does it compare as far as the current space? Like you said, this is a lot more efficient. Will the space all be taken up if you go into it? I mean, we have room for future growth.

No, there is—

when we went through last year, we went with Method Studio, we went through a space analysis, and we said, okay, where are we today? Where do we anticipate we're going to be in 5 years?

So we have a total time—

and then obviously as time passes, we have that additional quote-unquote balcony space that we grow into. And then we over time would look at all, obviously, the conference room spaces as well, remodel and convert those into offices at some point in the future, which honestly is what we've done in this building if it becomes too problematic.

So we have a lot of conference rooms, but That could be—

yes, that's what we've seen other cities doing as well, is providing meeting space now, which is pretty convenient for each department. Tough decisions have to be made as conference rooms could take over and be used for offices or cubicles or other things. I was going to say, I think some of our flexibility is even within the different cubicle spaces. And those are huge vehicles and things like that.

So is there any kind of scientific way that you project what room uses would be 10 years, 20 years, 30 years out? I mean, it's different for all cities, right? Whether they're growing or they're kind of built out or whatever.

I don't know if scientific is the right way, but surveying, talking with the staff and each of the departments, talking about what they anticipate, a lot of That was enough with how much you could afford with your budget.

Yeah. And then the targets are built-in target sizes.

How do we build in some of these things to flex up or flex down?

I mean, the other option, of course, is the basement space on the one side of the building.

Yeah.

But then we also have the space when that existing building comes down in the future, we ever needed to, for example, add structure, could probably accommodate some additional structure on that space, which in the short term, I guess we would look at it being some sort of plaza space, kind of outdoor walking space, but it doesn't need to be as big as, for example, this building.

Probably even shorter. Yeah, there's quite a bit of room in that basement left over.

I think if in the future you wanted to grow down there, it's just kind of a project to finish out the space to a more finished level.

I think you want to put some window wells to get some windows into the natural light of those rooms. So that wouldn't be that hard to do that?

Future.

Not too hard. We could do it now, but again, budget is an issue.

Yeah.

Okay.

Any other questions on this 3rd floor? We can get into the 3rd Sort of the 3D stuff. And again, before I do that, before we get into that, just know both are being designed in parallel.

So windows that you see may not align with floor plan in certain areas, and those sort of things.

So it's just part of the process. We're picking up our pencils and showing you where we're at. So this is from the corner of State and Center Street. So you can see this sort of shape of building, the glass, and then we're proposing because of that west and south light, but also sort of that sense of grandness, entrance, providing some sort of canopy trellis.

Let's see that idea of having this sort of clock element. Something similar that we showed in our feasibility study that was desired by the group back then. Nice feature as well. So is that the base— is that the basement what we're seeing on the left? No, that's the basement.

That's— this is the first floor. Basement's below grade.

Or if you did do windows, how would you do that?

So you'd have to—

so I've done this on a couple projects that people use. Cut back the soil and sort of burn down, provide a retaining wall, and then provide some high windows along those edges.

Are you talking about daylight basement?

Yeah, are you talking about the first level or in the basement?

If they wanted to convert that to Livable space.

Yeah, the basements, they, they dug it out. If you go over there, you'll see the landscape goes down.

I think that's nice.

I think that's a good idea.

So that's the council room there on the left?

No, well, this is the hallway that leads to the conference room.

City council room is Facing that way? Yeah, facing this way. It's facing into the, into the image.

Face west.

So this would be center street. So we'll go back. So this is sort of far, but city council room is here. The elevation one for that is down here, right there. So have you consulted with security folks as far as like, I mean, there's been some crazy stuff in city council meetings around, around the country. Yeah, have you talked to them about things that they would suggest when you, when you rebuild this or when you build it out?

So we don't have security consultants, if that's what you're asking, but we have had lots of discussions about security. And so for, for example, bringing into having a sort of private secure zone for escape and for communication is up and down the stairs to that sort of mayor's office zone, EOC zone, to the, to the dais here.

So it's all secure right there, not accessed by the public.

So that's your exit, right?

Yep.

Kind of what we have now. I guess I mean the one down below, right behind those 2 seats.

Oh, there is, there always is 2 exits out of this room direct to the outside.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

If there's some sort of incident occurring here, the council can come up through this door and they're in a secure zone back there, and then go out that north side.

Same within this room right there, they can go out to the north side. Or if the mayor needs to slip in, or any of the council members needs to slip in from upstairs, And the building too, these—

this building also conforms with all of our setback requirements. So it's not right up against, for example, State Street and Center Street. It's appropriately positioned, consistent with everything else that is along State Street per the guidelines that you adopted a number of months ago. So that's consistent too. provides a separation between the roadway and the vehicle itself as well.

Another option is also to provide some level of bullet resistance in the DS itself, so that there's a place the dog can hide and get out.

Do you not have a little slide down?

So the DS, the front of the DS, can be designed with ballistic We haven't talked about those areas, but it's something—

Not fun to talk about, but the reality is we were planning on, um, a lot of this. This elevation will have natural light into the room. The natural light would be really nice. That would be nice.

So your windows there, you're on the west, right? So that—

This is the south.

I mean, the side where the city council room is. Yeah, that are they— so they're built, I'm guessing. Yeah, that's good windows there.

Yeah, this is where the city council room is. Okay, so again, it's still being studied.

Filtered light, it would be good for— yeah, not that hot west sun.

So your slats covering the— so that's just more for sunlight?

It's It's, uh, for a number of things, you know, to give it prominence.

And like, what about the wintertime when it snows? Are you gonna have— are we gonna have like, uh, a lot of people down here? But you still have all folks coming in this morning, so it's minimal use because nobody's parking there. coming across the street back and forth. There's a bus stop right here.

But so this will help, you know, a very small percentage.

I mean, would that be an electrical thing or something?

Oh, you're talking about it in the concrete and things like that? Yeah, I mean, that is for safety. I mean, we haven't had that conversation yet, but for example, Yeah, because if it snows heavy, then it's like north-facing type stuff.

Yeah, you're right. Unless Steve wants the outside stuff. It doesn't snow anymore around here.

And I have a south-facing driveway and I never shovel. It's by 10 AM, it's done.

What is that exterior made of?

So right now, again, this is all up for discussion because we have Have these discussions yet right now with Chef Greg.

There's metal panels, concrete, and this is a wood-look slat panel. Most of it's brick.

Great.

Sure, sufficient views.

So this is on the plaza side.

This is the opposite end of the glass is angled. So you can access it in this direction.

Yes, there would be a vein of parking.

Yeah, you can kind of see those.

We've added parking to accommodate the additional square footage.

All the landscaping is just generic placeholders.

So I've been to many cities where they actually spell their name out with their letters. People take a lot of pictures, you know, but O-R-E-N, their way to maybe—

it's something like—

because I think, yeah, it becomes a social media post or I think a lot of interest. I've always wanted one, whether it's here or somewhere else in the park. Well, it's— it kind of brands your city, and like I said, I've taken next to those So I'm saying, isn't there a Provo Strong sign somewhere?

There's the recreation section. And we set money aside for public art through our CARE program regularly and stuff. So there's stuff we could do in the future.

But obviously a lot of the plaza is the existing building, right?

I get that.

So that's just at some point someone remembered to do this.

They could do a Family City USA cool thing out there, no doubt.

Mayor, we're about 15 minutes or so over schedule, right?

We do have a little 3D model that would be helpful for you if you want to get a visual.

It'd take maybe 5 or 8 minutes. Sure.

Yeah, you want to do that?

Yeah.

Okay.

So, Will, can you, uh, share your screen? I don't know if you can hear us.

Are we still on schedule to start in March? We're getting supplies and storing them. Is that still the case?

So how do I—

so right now we're working on procurement and looking at long lead items. We're still anticipating to start in the spring.

Thanks.

Um, currently we still need to look at the basement aspect. Our original schedule is 14 months. So we'll potentially add another month or two.

So, Will, will you share your screen? We can't hear you.

So he can hear us, but we can't hear him. We should be able to hear him if he's— did his mute set? He may have not unmuted.

Yeah, he's muted.

He just needs to unmute his mic, then we should be able to hear Will.

Okay, so Will, if you can unmute your mic, we can hear you.

Hey, can everyone hear me?

Well, I thought, I thought the sound was— hello?

Oh, there we go, I got you.

All right.

Well, maybe just to begin, if you could just start panning around the building. So this is up close on the plaza side, on the main entrance side. Then, Will, can you sort of pan around towards State Street and come around to the outside corner? That's towards the center, but that's okay.

So one of the things we do need to kind of let you know about is there are some of the trees, the existing trees, that We are looking to obviously save, but then there are a couple of other trees that are problematic because their root systems extend into the building.

So this tree is actually going to be gone. So Will, I don't know, that corner tree, if you can turn that off.

So from a, from a corner perspective, You look at—

there we go.

Yeah, I like that fountain we used to have. Isn't that pretty? The water feature. Do you have any water features?

We have not. It hasn't worked for 20 years.

It was nice.

It was, it was nice the 1 or 2 years that it operated.

Yeah, there's a lot of Kids that would get into it and start playing.

We're gonna pre-surface in the future.

Yeah, we're not wanting to go down that road.

Did you see the video of the guy that was painted back out swimming, going around?

We don't want to do this. Oh, we can get promos swimming in it.

We'll do the tree.

That's great. I don't need a naked man.

So this, this space could be designed, it could be designed as an event space, it could be designed as just green space, it can be designed to accommodate future growth. Yeah, there's quite a bit of flexibility here. What you see is just kind of generic, but there is an opportunity to do something special out here too. But until the building is gone, you don't really have—

you know, that would be probably another phase of our project.

So what does everyone think?

Love it.

I like it.

It's great. It's really cool.

Very nice.

Open, bright.

I really like it.

Like the dream idea. You can do this, but this building's still here.

Can we do it?

That's why they're on board.

I want to see what I've got set up when you take this down.

That's gonna be interesting.

But that also, Joe, is a conversation we have. having enough distance between new and old to— so that we wouldn't impact the foundation.

I got our tightest point, we're about 12 feet.

7 feet. A little less than what I was hoping for. Well, we were going for something that is very timeless, very welcoming, feels sophisticated but also warm, embracing.

People love that lit at Christmas, so make sure that there's lots of places you need to put hooks on things. Make sure that we can light it.

That's the thing that we get the most compliments on.

We've also had that conversation.

Okay, just reaffirming it.

Then we have—

I know this is way preliminary, but we've got Orem City on the plaza side. Would you have a sign on the other side as well that would say Orem City Center?

And the existing—

right now, but that's the number there.

And Jeff, the existing library hall sign says Orem City Center as well. In fact, we're looking to add— told the mayor, we're looking to add Family City USA, the logo for the city, so it would be there soon rather than—

we don't have to wait for this.

You may have seen that.

I apologize for taking so much of your time. Okay, any other questions?

Great project, looks awesome.

We've got a great team with Method and Layton.

They'll make it happen.

Yeah, it looks amazing.

Future elevations are of course going to have some adjustments and changes because the plan has changed.

Even just yesterday we had adjustments to the plan, so windows will be moving around and things, but the general look and feel, if we're headed in the right direction, that's what we're looking for.

I mean, this other side would be higher, right?

You'd have to do it to make the council chambers higher or whatever.

Yeah, we're gonna have to look at this.

Probably taller than that.

Yeah.

I wanted to make a comment if I could, Lane, if that's all right.

I just wanted to let everybody know how grateful Layton is to be involved. We've really enjoyed our experience so far with the city. And I want you to also—

I want to recognize Jamie and his team because I've been—

I know this will be my 5th City Hall, a lot of city councils. And I'm just really impressed with the amount of effort and energy that's put into every detail, each of the groups, each of the departments, the time that's spent. So just wanted to make that comment.

It's really great to be involved.

Thank you. Thank you.

You have a price estimate yet?

So the basement is a newer thing, but Landon's working on an updated estimate.

But I think, I think the hope was we kind of get you signed off to concept, and that gives Landon and his team— now you can start putting the—

We think we feel like we're on track. This will be the first real milestone, called milestone estimate. We'll be fly-off on this floor plan.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you again. Sorry we took so much time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's good to see you. Right, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Will, if you can just stop sharing. Oh, great.

Thank you so much.

All right, next we've got Conversation on the, uh, Provo dispatch services. So we'd like to order that.

So, Mayor and Council, just by way of introduction, this is a conversation that we have had with Provo City for probably the last year. And we are making progress in terms of working out details and how this relationship would work in the short term and how it would work in the long term. And even today we're having conversations about employees and compensation and terms of the agreement, as well as equipment associated with this facility, because if, if this effort were to move forward, then obviously we would need to accommodate some new equipment and have some aging. In fact, we have some legacy equipment and equipment, yeah, we need to replace. And so we've even started ordering equipment to accommodate this.

So by way of introduction, I'm Mark Sorensen. I'm the captain over our Support Services Division at the police department. I've met some of you, know some of you a little better than others, but, uh, and with me I have Lieutenant Mike Pereskeva, our Orange City employee.

I'm here.

Um, Chief Adams asked me to come in and give you all an update on where we're at, what we still need to accomplish, and he told me I had 15 minutes to it. So we put together a PowerPoint, and I wanted to try and go through the PowerPoint. Hopefully that'll answer some of your questions, and then at the end of the PowerPoint, if you have questions, you can ask us questions. So we're going to talk about the Orem-Provolinda dispatch potential merger, and the first slide here is why. The big why, the first reason why we need to consolidate and merge is our staffing issues. We, um, I don't— I talked to Lieutenant Pettersen, who's now Chief Pettersen at UDO. He was the dispatch coordinator in 2017, and he said in 2017 we were close to fully staffed, but we never made it to fully staff. We had people in training, but we never made it. Um, I don't— we didn't think we've been I don't think we've been fully staffed since 2015. We currently have 13 employees working in our dispatch center and we have 21 positions. So we are very, we're staffed very low right now.

A lot of overtime.

Yeah, huge amounts of overtime. And I'll talk about that in just a second. But so the first reason that we're looking to merge with Provo is to help try and solve this staffing problem.

That we have.

I think it's, uh, I don't think it's specific to us. Every dispatch center that I'm aware of has staffing problems. I know that the dispatch centers in Utah County have staffing problems right now. So that's the first and number one reason that we're looking to merge with the Provo Dispatch Center. The second reason is there's pressure for us to have fewer PSAPs or dispatch centers in Utah County. Salt Lake County has 2 PSAPs. They have Beck and Salt Lake, and we have currently in Utah County have 4 dispatch centers. The State Tax Commission's worry is that the tax money isn't being spent the way it should be spent. They're also concerned about transfer rates. When you call the police, you Uh, you may get Orem dispatch, you may get Provo dispatch, you may get county dispatch, central, and it takes some time to transfer that call over to the dispatch center that can help you. And that's a concern for the State Tax Commission. And so that is the second reason that we are looking to merge with another dispatch center in Utah County. There are 4 currently that would need There would be three. We talked to UCA, and they they feel like two is a good number. It gives one if one center went down or there was an earthquake or some type of disaster, we would still have one dispatch center in the county up in Orem. Another why is the level of service increases if Provo and Orem come together in their dispatch center. And I'm going to talk more about that in just a minute. And then the 4th reason why is our employees. Tom just brought up they're working huge numbers of overtime hours currently, and we need to come up with a solution that solves that problem. So looking at our one-time cost or initial cost to do this, it's $189,000.

We—

the consoles for this merger are $74,000, almost $75,000, and we've purchased those consoles and they'll be here around the end of the year. Like Jamie said, our consoles in our center are destroyed, they no longer work, and we need new consoles. When we move forward With this merger, those consoles will be installed in Provo, and that'll be a part of our buy-in, our initial one-time costs. It's going to cost $61,000 to transfer all of our phone lines, all the communication lines that come into the Orem Center, to make that transition to the Provo Center is going to cost $61,000. That's all the software and the hardware and the actual The labor to get that done. And then, uh, the, the third amount there is the value that our employees who work in dispatch have in their vacation banks. So whatever we decide to do, if dispatchers want to get paid out when we consolidate, or they want those balances transferred to Provo, that's the— that's what it's going to cost the city of Orem to do that.

So they become Provo employees?

Yes, yes.

And then the annual increase to the dispatch budget is $164,700 a year, and I'm going to go into that a little bit more here in a second. So what we've done so far, we have identified the need to consolidate and come together. And so as a fire administration and police administration, We looked at this and we tried to decide what the best thing for our first responders and our citizens was.

We—

fire and police both agreed that we need to consolidate. So we got a bid from Provo to merge with Provo and one with Central Dispatch, who handles the dispatch for the others, for the county and the other smaller cities in Utah County. After getting those bids, we— Chief Sanderson, Chief Adams got together and we decided that a merge with Provo makes the most sense. And it makes the most sense because we operate fairly similarly. The police department, they're relatively the same size, and the fire department is relatively the same size. And coming together is— it just makes sense operationally for our 2 cities. So some of the things that we've done, we've met with Linden Police Department and talked to them about a consolidation because we dispatch for Linden City. Another thing that we've done is, well, Provo moved from their old dispatch center into their new facility, they dispatched out of our dispatch center in Orem. And so for 14 weeks— it was kind of a lengthy process— for 14 weeks we worked together with Provo dispatchers, and all of the calls for service and 911 calls and admin calls in Provo City came through our dispatch center. So it gave us a good opportunity to get to know the dispatchers in Provo. They work well together, and it was kind of a blessing that that happened. It's really, you know, helped us in our confidence that we have that this, this can work. Something else we've done is there's lots of logistics that have to be completed to make this happen. We've worked with UCA, which is Utah Communications Authority, Motorola Lumen, Orem and Provo IT departments and facilities to try and troubleshoot and see what it's going to take to make this, this transition happen. And we're ahead on all those things. I think we have a good idea of what it's going to take, and we have a plan to make that happen. Another thing that we've done is the month of August, we got together with Provo Police Department. And when I say we, the police department did. And we talked about how we do our jobs in Orem and how they do their jobs in Provo. And we look for differences or obstacles that we would encounter when we consolidate. And so we had Provo lieutenants come and ride with Orem lieutenants, and Orem lieutenants go ride with Provo lieutenants. And then we went over and had a meeting with the Provo Police Department administration and talked about slight changes that we would have to make to make this successful. And I know that Chief Sanderson did that on the fire end of things. So, and the beautiful thing is we operate in much the same way. The way we dispatch the calls and the way we back each other and those types of things are pretty similar, Provo and Orem Police Departments.

So in that, I know Chief McGill and our administration, our main focus was focusing on the service delivery. There's slight differences in dispatch process, we run the same calls. So my primary focus, focus was to ensure that transitioning to a proper location for dispatch, that our emergency services didn't lose anything as far as the timeliness, the professionalism, and the automated dispatch systems that we currently have. And that's what's been represented as one of the benefits that will bring both levels of service. just increase our abilities overall combined. So that's why we support the process.

Um, some of the things that we still need to do is to make this merge happen. We have planned on September 20th to move one of our radio consoles from the Orem Dispatch Center to the Provo Dispatch Center, and then we have planned to start a shared staffing model October 3rd, and a shared staffing model is Orem dispatchers dispatching in the Provo Center. They continue to be Orem employees, but they work together to get the job done, much like what happened for 14 weeks when they moved into their building. That was a shared staffing model then. So so that's something that we've done to help vet this process. Another thing that we still need to do is human resources. from Provo and Orem are working on the benefit packages, the pay, the— and all of the HR component that goes along with this. So those are things that still need to happen.

I have a question. Are we similarly paying our people similar, or is there a big difference?

Um, so it's very similar. One of the biggest differences is that we're Social Security exempt, and they will be paying Social Security there. But they have a step program where we have grade and wage system. So it's really going to be very similar.

So some of the advantages that we see with this merger— that when I'm just— I just think of one time when I was on working, you know, as a police officer in the south end of Orem and got in a foot pursuit with a person down around Columbia Lane area. And you, when something like that happens, you get on the radio, you call for help or backup, and the dispatcher will send another Orem unit to help you. A consolidated dispatch center will just greatly increase the resources that we have. As soon as something like that happens, the, the, if there's an officer in Provo, in the north end of Provo, he's going to immediately hear what's going on. The dispatchers sitting next to each other are going to be able to communicate more quickly. There won't be a dispatcher calling Provo and asking for changing channels to get on the Provo channel. I see that as a big benefit. It will, it will be a more fluid process with fewer interruptions, and I think that the backing will get there more quickly.

We currently, probably the last 6 months, We've got a working relationship where we need Provo, we're bypassing our current dispatch. Our battalion chief is switching over to Provo's channel and calling their battalion chief directly or their dispatch directly to request the resources, try and minimize that, that delay in dispatch center to dispatch center. And so it fixes that, what we've already been doing for 6 months.

The increased staffing is one which is one of our main goals, is to decrease the overtime, create a larger pool of dispatchers that we can have in the chairs providing these dispatch services. Tom brought up before that our dispatchers are working a lot of overtime. Last pay period, one of our dispatchers worked 57 hours overtime in 2 weeks. 40 hours overtime happens quite regularly. So we, we really need to do something to solve this issue. The governance that if we merge with Provo, we will— what we've talked about is having maybe a 6-person governing committee, 3 people from Orem and 3 people from Provo. So when obstacles come up or problems arise, that governing committee can solve those problems. It gives both of our cities, our fire departments and our police departments, an equal amount of say and, you know, influence on the decisions that are made. And that, that is really important to Chief Sanderson and Chief Adams, is that we can— dispatch will continue to be something that if we have a problem or need something, we can make that happen through the— through this governing committee.

You said it's 3 and 3.

Well, and it's not— we don't— that's what we talked about.

out.

Say just do a strength 3, then you can't break a tie.

Well, and I think we had an idea for that too. And I don't have to know the particulars on that. So hopefully there's never a tie.

Good luck with that.

Will this handle 988 calls as well? Or is that someplace separate? Suicide is somewhere else. Yeah. You talked about an increase. I'm assuming that we will have some administrative cost savings On our side that are not built into that net increase that you shared. Is that accurate, or am I missing something?

Yeah, and the other thing, when you talk about it was $164,000 that it cost us more per year to provide dispatch for our citizens, and that is based on us being fully staffed and Provo being fully staffed. And I think our full— their full fully staffed number is 29 29, and ours is 21. So if we were fully staffed, we have 50 dispatchers. The, the, the model that we're looking at requires 40 to 42 dispatchers. So after we get this up and running and see exactly what we need, we're going to realize the savings that, you know, those staffing, you know, if we save 8 bodies and the $164,000 is based on both cities fully staffed.

We know where Provo's at percentage-wise for their staffing. Are they a similar ratio as we are?

They're, they're, they're better than us, but they're not fully staffed. I think they're around 20. I think it's a little higher.

I think it's 24, 29.

Yeah, I think Central represented in their presentation to us that they had 50 positions, but I think they were Short-staff 8 or 10 positions.

I mean, it's just the culture right now.

So yeah, so does that save you money or cost you money because you've got to pay overtime for those short-staffed?

Well, it's, uh, Brandon's probably the one to answer that. Um, and I haven't even looked at this from a financial perspective. I'm looking at it from a dispatch, uh, perspective. their point of view. I have to say that our dispatchers are probably— well, they're, they're probably the most dedicated professional employees that we have in the, in the police department. They just are. They work hard. They will cancel a vacation to come in and work. They will do whatever it's— whatever it takes to get the job done. And so when we looked at this, we have got to come up with a solution for our dispatch problems. In 2019, I think we worked towards a shared staffing, and Trish, you're sitting back there. In 2019, we worked towards a shared staffing model that we thought could work. Some of the problems with sharing staffing but continuing to have pro bono employees are you have IT concerns, you've got policy and procedure concerns. There's just a lot of obstacles.

in doing this.

And that's why, you know, we came together as police and fire and decided this is the— this is the way for us to be successful.

Mayor, I think we've had a lot of discussion on looking at the staffing, combining staff, and solves both department staffing issues that reduce the significant amount of overtime. And we'll have one center fully staffed rather than 2 staff— 2 centers that are short-staffed. So I think we address the cost savings, not an increase in wages.

I think where the savings is, is that we have 2 separate staffs now, and by combining them, we don't need full staffing from both agencies anymore. So just by lowering, um, the combined amount by 2, by 2 dispatchers, would more than make up for that $164,000.

It sounds like you have plenty of room to get down, take 2 off, right?

Yeah, yeah, there's going to be room to come down. The main— the focus here is solving our staffing issues, and I really think that it will increase the level of service for our citizens. When, um, when you call and you need help, you need help now, and anything that can make that response quicker is a good thing for the people that live in, in Orem. Anytime you can get backup for a police officer that needs that backup more quickly is a good thing for our employees here in Orem. And that, that's the end of the presentation. Our request is that, that the council would approve the resolution during the September 27th council meeting to merge the Orem and Provo Communication Centers.

Second.

2 questions.

Yes, sir.

So one is, I had someone from dispatch reach out to me with concerns about this.

Okay, so if you'll address those.

And then the other issue is, I agree, our dispatchers are people we need to be very loyal to and supportive of.

Won't this increase their burden of calls? I mean, if they're going to have more calls and more pressure—

I mean, every call has got to be a pressure situation, I would think, some worse than others, but So I guess the question about are we increasing their burden and why are they reaching out to me saying they're not happy with us?

It's merging to coming together will decrease the burden because you will have— right now in our dispatch center, many times we have 3 dispatchers and there's nobody that can come in and spell them, take them off the radio, give them a scheduled break. Um, there, there's just not the people to do that. And so when we come together then you have more dispatchers. You, you have twice the work, but you have more dispatchers to do that work. And more than anything else, it allows us to be fully staffed. So if the model shows for 6 or 7 dispatchers to be in the seats during a certain time of the day, then you have 6 or 7 people in the seats during that time of day. Right now we don't have people in the seats.

But you got twice the calls coming into those folks.

So why—

tell me why Some were concerned about this, about moving.

Yeah, about the merger.

Is that the only concern? Is there an increased call volume or what other concerns?

They just said we're not happy with this, we don't support it. I didn't go farther than that, so I just— I'm just asking you, what are those concerns?

So I can tell you some of the concerns because I get letters too.

Yeah, let us— yeah, let's go.

So probably the biggest concern, and this is just from a Well, this is more— and this was one of several things, but, uh, so the PSAP license, right? And Orem will be losing that if we combine, right? And you really can't get it back.

Well, we've talked to UCA about that specifically.

Yeah.

And there's nobody that takes or gives PSAPs. When we talked to UCA, they said, you can— we don't govern that. When you When your calls start to go to— if we were to merge with Provo, those calls go to Provo. We, we send the E911 tax money to Provo. But in a year from now, if you come back and say we're starting our dispatch center back up again, they at UCA, they said we don't govern that. The tax commission could, could get involved in that. And that's what, that's what they told us at UCA.

It's actually in legislation that you cannot create a piece out from the state.

When we've contacted— we've contacted the State Tax Commission and they've referred us to the Department of Health.

We've talked to the Department of Health, they've referred us to the State Tax Commission.

We sat right in UCA's office, the Utah Communications Authority, and they said that you just have to call us and we'll pick it back up. Now, Trish, I don't— I don't know, you know, I don't know what the answer to that is. That's just the information that we—

that we gather.

But at the end, at the end of the day, I— we have got to move on to a model, in my opinion, and, you know, Chief Sanderson and Chief Adams' opinion, that solves these, these, uh, staffing needs. And they, they want fewer PSAPs in our county, and, and we've kind of talked about those reasons.

I guess, I guess what I'm saying is, I mean, to me it makes a lot of sense. You know, I've seen Provo's dispatch center, it's a super nice dispatch center, it'd be a great working environment. It's got a lot of things going for it, so I can see a lot of the benefits. As far as this PSAP issue though, um, if you don't have a PSAP anymore, then you have no option to say we've changed our mind, we want to go home kind of thing. I mean, you're committed, right? And so, so the issue is, is to make sure that in your contract or your agreement, you have an agreement that gives you the ability to make sure you can Do what you want, right?

Very—

so you have a voice.

This has been something that even my time in Pleasant Grove, back in 2006, this has been a push from the state to reduce the PSAP centers in Utah. And it wasn't maybe 18 months ago, Pleasant Grove— I never in my life would have thought they'd given up their PSAP center. They transitioned to Central. And so the move's already there. I think if we're not proactive in creating what we want want, we're going to be forced to either merger with Provo, then we don't have— because, because of the state legislative move, we don't have the ability to work together to build what we want now. We're just going to get forced into one of those 2 organizations. I think we, I think we take the short end of that stick all the way, where if we're proactive now, seeing that they can just pull that from us, or residents, our community's been way better taken care of by being proactive.

And how I define proactive is making sure that whatever contract you put together, you've got a pretty high level of control. You're making sure that it's the way that you want to do it.

Um, I absolutely— we absolutely agree with you. Our conversations with Provo, uh, since the very beginning have, have really centered on the idea that we don't want to be your customer. We want to be your partner, and we are fashioning an agreement that gives us a partnership. Now, in the short term, given the urgency of some of these things and given some of the unknowns that we have, we would proceed on a contract basis with Provo with the idea that within Within the next 18 months, we would refine this partnership relationship by way of what we call an interlocal agreement. So that's when, for example, we would set up governance structure that decisions are not made by Provo because we are not their customer, we are their partner. And we had a similar conversation with Central Utah Dispatch where we could, yes, become a partner with Central Utah as well. The challenge with Central Utah is the nature of that partnership would be a little different, whereas I think we would be one of 18 partners in that relationship, whereas with Provo, we would be one of 2 partners. So our share of ownership in the future would be greater with Provo than it is with Central Utah. The other conversation we have had and it speaks to this partnership rather than customer relationship, is we are going to buy our way into this partnership. Meaning, uh, we are going to obviously buy equipment, so it's not Provo's equipment, it's Orem's equipment. So in the event we needed to take it, we could take it. At the same time, they are requiring us to buy into their building. So it's not just you their building, but that section of the building would be part of the interlocal agreement, and we would have essentially quote-unquote ownership to that. Now, I don't think we're going to hold title to it, but the nature of the relationship would be such that it's not a customer, customer-vendor relationship, but it's a partnership. But it's going to take its time to get get there. And that's why we have agreed upon that we would, we would head down this path right now by contract, and then we would amend that contract and transform into an interlocal agreement where we would have an equal voice for all intents and purposes in the governance of the center.

Yeah, and that's why I think it's critical. I think you've got to— I mean, because if you don't have the PSAP, then you've got to have this partnership where you've got you can get where you want to go. And it's not an issue.

We don't have— we don't have the answer yet to that. We've discussed a lot about maintaining a line in Orem, not currently staffed, for redundancy's sake, in case there was an emergency in Provo, to where we still maintain the PSAP license. We're just on full folks.

And we do— we do agree that that PSAP question and that license question is a concern. It's also a concern, though, if we We hold the license and we don't have any employees to answer the calls. And, and that's one of the challenges that we're facing, is we have a decreasing number— or the dispatch market in general is seeing a decline in the number of individuals that want to be dispatchers. So while we may hold on to a license, if we can't find individuals to staff the center, then we're tying our hands as well.

Like I said, I From what I've seen of Provo's dispatch center, it's super nice. It'd be a great work environment.

It's just got a lot of things going for it, right?

So to partner with that seems like it'd be a positive for the employees. The other, the other concern, um, this is more HR-oriented, but this would be something to address as you're going through this, is there are, um, several employees that feel like they have not been compensated fairly. Um, they felt like when the police got a raise, they said they didn't get a raise. I don't know the details, that's just what they told me. And so anyway, there's just— there's some, some concerns about— they want to be, you know, they're a valued part of Orem's employees, they want to be treated fairly, and they want this transition to be fully treated fairly. There was something about flex employees having to reapply or something. with the new center, and they were feeling like that was, was not fair. Um, anyway, so I, I can give you more details on the HR side of it. That would be good things for you to work out, I think.

I think— I mean, I'll speak for Chief Adams, he's not here, but we're committed that if our employees aren't taken care of, I mean, we're going to stay at the negotiating table so they're just like our city, equal partners in that dispatch center. They can't be the stepchildren dispatching in another organization.

That wouldn't be right.

Right.

We want them to not lose anything by going over there.

Well, we have a lot of confidence in their— in this, the future of this dispatch center, what the vision that Chief Miguel, Jim Miguel, over at the fire chief, he has for this center. I just have a lot of confidence in that. And Terry, you asked about why some of the dispatchers wouldn't want to leave. I— for the same reason that they, they have all this pride in Dispatch Center. They've worked so hard to keep it up and running for all of these years. We've gone through times where the staffing has been an issue, and then things will, you know, I don't know if it's cyclical or what, then things will be better. But that's the reason that our dispatchers don't want to leave, because they've sweated and they've bled here, and they have a lot of pride in, just like I do as a police officer, it's no different. And to see that come to an end, I know that's a tough thing. But these decisions, I, from, you know, Chief Sanderson, Chief Adams, and myself and Lieutenant Pereskevic, we, I think we're making these decisions looking out for the employees, for those dispatchers first before anything else.

And I would like to, this is a point of contact, I'll take this email and redact it. And then I'd like to share it with you so that you can talk with these guys and just make sure that those concerns are addressed.

And just so that you know, too, there's a lot of moving parts behind the scenes that I don't think that the dispatchers necessarily are aware of.

Sure.

We're working on transparency pages so that they can see what their current pay is, what it would be over in Provo as well, so they can compare them. But to the note of them not being compensated accurately, the reason why the police officers got it outside of an annual increase, as you recall, we did it in that January It was because we needed to be competitive with the external market. But we look at every single position in the city every year to make sure that they're competitive.

And I think you'll see when we—

when they do get those one-sheets to compare Orem and Provo, they'll see that we are competitive with what Provo has.

Yeah.

So I do think that if our dispatchers can just trust in the process, We can answer all the questions, and I think that we have stated that we'll have meetings with them as well.

And we've had some emails back and forth about the part-time positions, and I think we've got that, you know, what, what that question answered. Um, I think we've got that problem resolved. But that said, we don't have all the answers for all the questions, and we don't even know what all the questions are yet. But if we keep our employees, you know, these dispatchers at the forefront, I think we'll we can make good decisions and make this happen. The most important thing is we've got to get something done because we cannot keep up the extra work and stress that these dispatchers are going through. We've got to move out of this. We've got to do this merger. In my opinion, we need a merger.

I agree. Thanks, Todd.

The most important thing I feel like the next 2 weeks is council members receive emails, whether you redact them or you cut and paste the actual concern— we don't need to know the name of the individual— if you would just forward them to Chief Adams, myself, at least 2, that way we can just return with an answer relatively quick before we move the council, move the employee. Let's get these things that they're coming to you with in front of us so that we can get ahead of them. Thank you.

Okay, that's the only thing I would ask.

And if any of you guys have any questions, please call Mark or Chief Adams or myself. Call and ask us and, you know, try and make this, you know, the answer.

So just comment with what Carrie said. We adjusted the police because of external market conditions and being competitive, but we can't keep enough dispatchers because we're not, you know, because the same issue, the same thing you just said.

So Good point, Carrie.

We need to take care of the dispatcher just like the police, because we have a problem keeping our dispatchers because we really market that.

I think part of it is there's less people that are interested in going into the field as well.

Well, Carrie, I want to just, I mean, recognize that I can't remember the exact wage. You'll have to correct me, but I feel like we were offering like $45, $50 an hour for part-time employee coverage in a short-term period.

or something.

I mean, it was like unbelievable. And there still wasn't employees from other dispatch centers wanting to come over, pretend for that, that wage. It was shocking.

And to that point, right now we're offering our dispatchers double time to pick up extra shifts, not just time and a half but double time. And they're starting to get burned out to the point where they don't even want to work for double time either.

And so that's where we're at, a critical state Mayor, the benefit I've had is that I'm like a customer of dispatch. I mean, I attend a monthly meeting and I'm part of the leadership group, but I'm in a different situation than these, these 2 and Chief Adams, in that it's their dispatch, they supervise them directly. And I mean, I've been super pleased with the professionalism and the service that they're currently providing. I don't have to deal with staffing issues and the pay issues. I can just step back and just enjoy the service they're providing.

I've been really beneficial that way.

I'm confident we can overcome these obstacles. My only, you know, ask of you guys is just to get concerns or questions in the next couple of weeks, get with us and let us, you know, answer the questions or make you feel more comfortable with this.

If I may just clarify that the purpose of the resolution on the 27th of September is not to quote unquote finalize everything, but rather it's a resolution to essentially express intent to merge with the City of Portland's dispatch center. So we're still in the contract drafting process. Process, the contract drafting will include provisions within the agreement that speaks to the transition to an interlocal agreement, this partnership we're talking about. So it's, it's not, hey, we're doing it and everything's going to be buttoned up by September 27th.

It's more an expression of intent that we are moving forward.

And, and this is something that Provo City Asking from us too, so they can appropriately plan and accommodate what, you know, what we're going to do.

And I believe it's to just support this initial move of a console and the transition of the employee, because it's not working within 30, 60, 90 days. We haven't signed something completely, and we'll have to go back to the drawing board, figure it out.

The reason we're moving October 3rd is we're trying to get a shared staffing to help get our dispatchers some time off for Thanksgiving and Christmas. We're hoping that that helps with those holiday seasons.

Okay, sounds good.

Anybody have any more questions? I mean, we can't— I mean, if it's the pay thing, are we trying to solve that in 2 weeks? And you're talking about it all agree, but you're talking about 18 months, you said.

So no, what, what we're talking—

we're safe, we're doing a resolution on the 27th, but then 18 months, we're working through it, and then we can pull the plug?

Or—

No, no.

So we would ideally, we would enter into an agreement on January 1st for the City of Provo to provide dispatch services for the City of Orem by contract. And at that point, then those employees, uh, that the employees as of January One with the City of Provo.

But do we still have to approve that, or this resolution gives the open door? No, no, you—

this is still a process where there would be, uh, we would continue to brief you on the agreement and essentially get your sign-off on the terms of the agreement. And then if we are to create an interlocal agreement, that is requiring you to it as well. So there are checkpoints along the way where you will continue to be involved in this conversation and this process.

So if there's hiccups December 31st, we can say no.

You could— we don't like the interlocal agreement, you know.

Yeah, you could say, you could say we like these terms but we don't like these other terms and we want to go back to the negotiating table.

relay that our primary objective is to maintain employee satisfaction, whether they're ours or Provo's, and make sure that we don't lose anything service-wise for our citizens.

And I will say, as related to our employees, and I've had this conversation with— we've had this conversation with Chief Miguel, who's the fire chief responsible for the dispatch— they want to essentially begin this relationship where they have happy employees. So they don't want to create a situation, for example, where day one they have happy Provo employees and frustrated and angry Orem employees who are transferring into this Provo dispatch center. So these are issues that we are having conversations about. We are, for example, making sure or trying to And Carrie's the one that's more intimately involved in this, but, you know, if you have a dispatcher in the City of Provo and they've been there for 11 years, and we have a dispatcher in City of Orem and they've been here for 11 years, you know, is there, is there comparableness between the Provo employee and the Orem employee? Now, some of the things we can't fix— the fact that we are Social Security example, the fact that they are Social Security in the Social Security system. Those are things that we can't necessarily adjust, but we can say, look, if you're an employee with one agency and you've been here for 9 years, and you're another employee, you're classified the same way, you've been here for 9 years, then we do believe that pay should be the same. And if we have to step up as a city in Orem to meet that obligation, then we will meet that obligation because we want the relationship to be positive from day one when we essentially cue the mic for both cities.

So would we make up the Social Security amount for that?

Because that's—

I mean, they're getting more in their paycheck.

No, we would essentially— we would— we have a Social Security Alternative.

Oh, that's right.

So, you know, that, that benefit under a pro bono relationship, they would no longer receive that alternative benefit, but they would receive a different benefit, which is Social Security.

Yeah.

Okay, we're gonna have to move forward to make it out, but I think we're good and appreciate the presentation.

Thanks.

As far as going forward, we've got 3 more things. Um, I'd say we grab our dinner, and, um, but then we're gonna have to come back pretty quick to make it through the rest of these.

So what do you want to make a quick rapid dinner? Would someone like to bless the food? Heavenly Father, we're grateful to be able to gathered here in safe and favorable conditions. Please bless the food we're about to partake of, that it will be restrained. We're grateful for those who help provide it for us. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen. So salads and cafeteria, there are some low, no-carb options over here without the tortilla and such. Members of the council. Okay, go ahead, Jason.

A couple weeks ago, we came and presented some ideas about moderate-income housing strategies. We're here tonight to present the final draft, obviously knowing that it can be amended as we read through it. So you have a copy before you, the Redline Strikeout. I just want to go over briefly, uh, front pages. Anything you see in red is new text as far as demographics. There's a couple of tables, 4.1 and 4.2, add in some data from the 2020 census. We don't have all the data back from the census, and so we will be making some changes as we go forward to the general plan related to other numbers. But what you see in red, including those charts and also the strikeout of the State Street mixed-use districts, we're taking that out as well. So that is basically what we're changing as far as the front part of the demographic section of the housing. Then in the back portion, we're adding in the 4 strategies that we talked about last week. We're making one modification. Let me just briefly go over the 4 strategies really quick. One is the assisted apartments. We currently have assisted apartments, we currently continue to allow assisted apartments. That is a strategy that we can move forward with, and so we're proposing to keep that as one of the strategies. Affordable senior housing overlay is also an existing ordinance that we have that can be used in this strategy as well.

So those are the key—

Can you remind me where the overlay is?

It's not a state street.

It's a mile wide and centers on State Street. So it's 5 miles wide, 5 miles long, and half mile on each side of Center Street—

excuse me, State Street.

And there's certain criteria that you have to meet that anywhere in that area is where you can locate one of these.

Would that be a 55 and older?

It is 60 and over.

And they have to make less than 80% of the median income of the county. And then there's a rate— rent restriction on that as well. They can't charge more than the rates required by Utah County Housing Authority. So it's pretty well restricted as far as who can go in there. But we require an annual report every year on who's living there, the salary that they make, So we do keep track of who's in there. So those 2 are existing, we already have those in the city. We're proposing that those continue and those count towards meeting those 4 moderate-income housing strategies. The other one we talked about last time was the Housing Transit Reinvestment Zone, which is ATRZ, which is the developer down by the Wolverine Crossing area that wants to come in and propose that. That's totally on them. This is a ability for us to use that as one of our strategies. And it's a yes or no question for the city council in the future. If the council decides not to do it, it's simply a no, and we move on to a different strategy. But it counts this year as meeting that criteria. The other one is the station area plans. We have added in the station area plans the fact that we're going to focus in those plans on home ownership and also the twin home type So that's Manhattan. So these are the 4 we're proposing. We're doing this with the Planning Commission, hopefully getting a recommendation next Wednesday in order to bring it forward to the council on the 27th. So I've given you a handout, paper copy, that shows the proposal. If there's any questions, let's read through.

Is this the red that— this is the rewrite that you talked about?

Yes, we're doing 4 strategies now. So we did 4.

We were required to do 3 plus 1 because we have an interval or the training station, so we have to do 4.

That meets the requirement.

There was an incentive if we did 6, if I remember.

There is. We've chosen to do 4, and then we can talk with council over the year to see if we want to do 6 next year. That's something we'll work ourselves into rather than trying to get 6 upfront.

When is this due to the state?

So This is proposed to be adopted by October 1st. So the 27th, we'll meet that deadline.

We'll then submit our report as well that goes along with this, and then we'll meet the deadline by October 1st, which is a Saturday. We'll get that before October 1st.

How does this tie into that $250,000 grant that we got?

So this station area plans is what we'll use that money to do. Phase 1, which is the Frontrunner station currently. That'll be phase 1 with 100,000. 3 stations on University Parkway will be the other 150,000, which we're then due over the next couple of years.

So these stationary plans are due by 2025, so we have several years to work on those.

So can I just ask, because I haven't had time to read through all this, but this thing, this draft that we talked about, are there significant changes from that to here, or is it pretty So we exchanged out the high-density one.

So that's— now we've changed that up for X.

And then the Burbage is taking out the things that we talked about as far as tracking and added in the owner-occupied.

So please read that. If it doesn't meet your intent, then let us know. We did add that stuff. So if it's okay, we'll bring this back in 2 weeks. And hopefully, with a Planning Commission's recommendation next week.

So I encourage everyone to read this, right?

If there are any questions, make sure you get back to Jason.

Be glad to meet one-on-one or however you want to do it.

And this applies to all cities of any size, or just every—

I just got a notice today actually from Utah County. The county is even going through the same process.

So in 2 weeks they'll be meeting with their county commission to do the same thing.

Every city in the state of Utah has to do this similar process.

Okay, thank you. Great, thank you.

Do you want to move on to the next?

Absolutely.

So next one, right?

So going forward, and we've done it in the past, maybe because we haven't had a lot of big projects coming to the council, we've tried to just let you know what's coming down the road. So this item potentially could come October 1st. Planning Commission continued at last meeting. We're going to review it again this meeting. They continued it because of the Provo Planning Commission. If you look through the packet, and I won't go into a lot of detail, the overall project is— a portion of it is in Orem. The one that we're talking about here in the PD, the majority of that project is in Provo. So the Planning Commission wanted to have Why don't you have Provo review it and actually make their recommendation before we do it, as far as the city goes? Because a lot of the roads and things would actually access through Provo. So the Planning Commission will reconsider it next week. Provo's continuing it this week, and then it potentially could, depending on what the Planning Commission determines, come to the council on the 11th. They're ultimately proposing 25 units in all, townhouse style. 2.5 parking stalls per unit.

They are for rent products, so it'd be at the higher end, but it'd be for rent.

So that's it.

The Planning Commission is very impressive. They take everything seriously, and, you know, they want to spend more time on this. They have a lot of issues with 8th North, which is a UDOT issue. But anyway, there's a lot of discussion.

So yeah, so one of the big problems, or one of the big issues with this, is I think we generally like the project. I think we're gun-shy about PD zones. In other words, we approve something and then it gets changed, you know, over the process, tears it down or whatever. And so I think we'd be a lot more inclined if we could nail down what they want to do and have them stick to that.

So that's the beauty of PD zone. We'll get into more detail as we present it to you. Okay, the zone itself is tied specifically to that property. and the elevations, the concept plan, all that is also tied to the ordinance. So if and when a developer comes in the future and says, well, I don't want to do that, they would have to actually come back through the process, present it to council and say, we want to modify this.

Council can say no, or they can modify it over time.

We've had a couple PDs that have modified them over time, but it has to go through that same process. So the PD zone is one way to tie them specifically to a Concept plans, trussing elevations, and that's what the key is, that there's a way to do that. So we're taking the city council vote for the city, but if they want to change it, they could, but they have to go through the same process.

That's the biggest thing I've heard, is just we want whatever they proposed to happen.

That's how we've done PBs.

And is that 7, um, pumps to the acre PB? Am I thinking of the right thing, or 3 acres.

3-acre minimum.

3 acres.

Okay, so that's a 3-acre.

That's all I want.

Thank you.

Okay, then I can say one more time.

There's another project that we'd like to piggyback this one to down in that area, right? A woman I— yeah, but all in all, yes. So it has some impact on this one as well.

It does. She has not made application. We've talked briefly about— this is the property east of the program, next to University Avenue.

There is about a 10-acre, maybe less, that wants to do some type of project similar to what you're seeing.

That'll be in the future.

All right, thank you.

Would you like to—

Yes, um, so I'm over 3 commissions: Summerfest Arts Council and the Natural Resource Commission. So I'll just quickly report on those. The Arts Council had a very successful Valentine's barbershop quartet thing in February. Well, we'll receive— they're doing their 10th annual Orem Stories project where students draw portraits of Orem residents, and they're displayed in the library from November through April. They organized some entertainment on stage during the Summerfest, which included a BYU alumni band, which brought over 75 musicians together for the celebration of music. They sponsored a summer concert series on the stage here at City Center Park. 6 local groups came and provided music that was enjoyed by over 1,500 people. We held an open call for submissions for utility box art and selected several pieces, and we will continue to work on those. I think the goal is to get at least 10 of those wrapped, and I was on the selection committee, and there's some wonderful local artists with a variety of young and old and beautiful artwork.

So that should be great.

Um, on the natural resources, they're going to start highlighting green spaces in Orem. The green space would be something like the community gardens, different orchards. They're going to try to do 3 a month and then work through Karen or Pete to highlight some— almost a history of the area. with the idea that eventually when we open a water tank park, the Heritage Park, that that would be kind of a culminating thing. They're going to start giving out ZuriScape awards for local scapes, people who've converted water-wise things, and so that's exciting. Hillary, who's a UVU earth science member of the committee, was appointed by UVU to be on the Utah Lake Authority. You know, we had lots of discussion about that. They've held one meeting, and she reports they're working on bylaws. They would love to take us on a bike tour around the city and just wanted me to know how many would be interested or have a bike or an e-bike.

You could rent those.

And then they want to work with the library on space they would like to convert, so some solar energy ideas, things like that. Summerfest, um, I participated in half of it, but I do want to have Christine How was the new carnival and ticket sales? Tell me a little bit about that. Overall, I think it was successful, and I didn't get any negative— maybe the cost of the— I think I want to know about the cost.

Yeah, we had a couple things on the carnival.

This was their first time doing a fair in Utah County, and they have a lot more kids here than their county fairs do other places, so they'll adjust the different rides for next year. It definitely was more pricey. I think all of you know the concerns that were had with the previous carnival company, which may have led to the cheaper prices.

So it is a little more—

it was more expensive, but the crowds were good. The events all went off really well.

So our committee does—

it's a committee that does work really hard. They do a lot to prepare for it. We're going to start meeting in October to start planning 2023.

So thanks to— I can't remember the person who was able to get the fireworks show.

Trevor Bell.

Trevor Bell. Yep, special accolades to him for—

he did great to get that. Okay, I'm done. Okay, thank you, Debbie.

All right, we'll adjourn to the next meeting.

We'd like to welcome all of you here tonight and call this meeting to order. To start with, Councilman Lamson would like to introduce some friends that he's invited to come tonight.

Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to take just a moment. We've asked for the opening prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance tonight to be offered by Keith and Jenny Lynn Mauermann. Keith and Jenny Lynn are some folks that I bumped into about 3 years ago. I met them for the first time, and I was so touched and impressed with their story and Just kind of a reminder of the great community that we have here in Orem and the wonderful people that live here. And I don't want to publicly embarrass them, but I just want to tell you a little bit about these 2 pillars who live in our community. Keith and Jenny Lynn met at BYU, and after dating for quite some time, were married. 5 months after they were married, Keith was drafted into the military.

military.

While serving as a sergeant and as a squad leader, Keith received an injury from a mine explosion that left him as a double amputee. Because of the brunt of this blast and the injury that he received, they figure that the lives of several other men were saved from death or injury. It was a year and a half that Keith was in the hospital. until he got back home. Keith and Jenny Lynn are the proud parents of a wonderful family of 8 children, 15 grandchildren, and 5 great-grandchildren. They've lived here in Orem and raised their family here at the foot of Mount Timpanogos. 45 years after Keith's injury, he and Jenny Lynn were called to serve as a senior missionary couple for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Part of their service was at Fort Bragg, where they were instrumental in helping other American soldiers who had been badly injured and their families while they were in the hospital at Fort Bragg. Because of their personal experience, Keith and Jenny Lynn were able to offer kindness, understanding, empathy, and compassion beyond compare to the— these American heroes and their families at their time of need. To me, Keith and Jenny Lynn are the epitome of what it means to be American heroes themselves. They are pillars of faith and strength to our community, and they just recently celebrated their 54th wedding anniversary. We've asked Keith to offer the invocation this evening, and then Jenny Lynn, if you would lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Okay, Jeff, not to one-up you, but these are my neighbors. When we, we lived next to them for a number of years, they put up with all my little brothers. And Keith dealt with a lot of infections with what he's had. So, it hasn't been an easy row. And I know there was times that he didn't talk about, but my parents would tell me as we were growing up next to them, some of the challenges he went through trying to make those fake legs work like real legs. Anyway, wonderful family. And their son bought the home that that I grew up in. So pretty cool.

And I wasn't going to mention that, Councilmember Peterson, but probably one of the greatest challenges was having you as a neighbor.

We are grateful to live in this land, this free land of America.

America.

We're grateful that we have a heritage of trust in Thee. We're grateful that our coinage reflects this trust and that each coin is stamped with the slogan, In God We Trust. We do trust in Thee. We know that Thou art the Prince of Peace.

Amen.

We ask that we may have peace in our land, in our city, and in our city council meetings, and that we may be at peace with the decisions that are made in council, in this council room. We're also aware and grateful that our coinage also states E Pluribus Unum. United we stand. We pray that we as a city may be united and that we may have peace and unity in our city and in our city council. We say this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Please rise for the pledge.

Will you please repeat the pledge after me? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you for your participation, both of you. We have some time set aside for personal appearances. Just to read this, time has been set aside for the public to express their ideas, concerns, and comments on items not scheduled as public hearings on the agenda. Those wishing to speak are encouraged to show respect for those who serve the city. Comments should focus on issues concerning the city. Those wishing to speak should have signed in before the beginning of the meeting. Please limit your comments to 3 minutes or less. We've got 3 people that have signed up here. And the first one is Karen Adamson.

My name is Karen Adamson. I'm an Orem city resident. I just want to thank you, the City Council, for your courage in serving our city, in listening to the citizens, and in voting to put the Orem District option on the ballot this November. I'm a product of the Alpine School District. My husband and our children are as well. And I think we turned out pretty good, but I can see that Alpine District is growing and seems stretched super thin. I don't see that changing since my husband is a local home builder and we can see what's planned for the county in the near future. As Alpine District continues to see huge growth in some areas of the county, I see that the challenges that Orem faces are vastly different from the challenges that the newer areas are facing, and it would be very wise have local Orem residents in charge of handling local Orem issues. In a meeting I was in last night, I recognized that a lot of people are afraid of the change that a new district would bring. We need to encourage the pioneer spirit that our state was built on. There are many talented people right here in Orem who are qualified to lead the charge in creating what we in Orem really need. We don't need walls to build around Orem. We need collaboration and we need relationships with all of our neighbors, but in the end, we need to take care of ourselves. A wise friend once taught me that the only way to help the weak or the struggling is to not be one of them.

Keep up the good work.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next, we've got John Barrick.

Mayor and City Council, I thank you, and I also wish to talk about an Orem-only district. The ASD Business Services Group is either incompetent, corrupt, or both. They published an Orem-only district deficit number of $29 million, and looking at this, the first supporting page, it showed that they forgot to update the 2017 numbers that they gave you when they came to visit in 2017. They proposed an increase over the period of 2017 to 2020 of 0.7% for an Orem-Moline district, yet 29% for Alpine School District because they kind of forgot to update some of their numbers. That was an $8 million change that Alpine School District did this week, made this week to their number. Now they're projecting a $21 million deficit that Stronger Together PIC designed to fight against an Orem-only district, praised them for their honesty and integrity. Now, we leaked that, that small number change to them that they revised for $8 million. I know of 6 other numbers, all with a million-dollar or more price tag, some of them at $9 million. So let me tell you about a couple of them. One is Alpine School District gave you a debt fund only Excuse me, a general fund only estimate. They forgot the capital and debt fund, you know, the 2 funds where Orem funds the Alpine School District. They also neglected to tie things to their financial statements. Their revenues are $9 million than their audited financial statements— audited financial statements. Their revenues are only $11.5 million off from their audited financial statements. So Utah state regulators are interested in that. In addition, the capital fund— Orem made a $9.2 million contribution, including the purchase of Hillcrest Elementary for $5.5 million from the Alpine School District. So there's $9.2 million. From the debt fund, if you remember, Rob Smith in 2017 told you that 28% of the funds from the Alpine School District came from Orem and only 11 or 13% at the time of the school district funds came back for building buildings. And if you remember that number, that big difference, it generates a $9.7 million contribution from Orem to the Alpine School District. So we're already in the black now from the $21 million deficit. I've still got 3 or 4 other items I'd like to share with you, but I'm running out of time. Stronger Together also cast— forecast a $20 million to $21 million deficit. Largely fiction. I explained all of that to Keith Wilson, you know, the treasurer for Stronger Together, on July 12th, and he estimated the federal revenues for an Orem-only district to be less than the Title I revenues, $7.5 million less than Alpine's contribution or estimate of Orem's federal items. It's all, it's all baloney. So the truth will set them free soon.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next, we've got Amy Carr.

Good evening. My name is Amy Carr. I've been a patron, volunteer, and employee at Orem Library for 20 years. I am currently a volunteer producer, writer, and performer for the Little Learners Storytime podcast through Orem Orem's Children's Department, and I'm also a volunteer storyteller. I was recently asked to cover a storytime in October. In 2021, I was an employee here at the library, and I was involved in the Children's Department's remarkable efforts to increase their representation of the beautiful diversity that exists in the Orem community and in the world around us. I personally helped curate Black History Month picture book lists, wrote a Black History Storytime podcast episode, and planned Heritage Month storytimes. So when I was asked to do the storytime in October, I naturally asked what Heritage Month we would be celebrating because I knew in the past they had had these displays and these books, and I wanted to tie my storytime into that display. I was told by an employee that it's— they were no longer doing the displays, but I was welcome to do the story time. So upon pressing them further on why on earth we spent a year curating this opportunity to, to give our marginalized and our minority populations representation, why on earth would they decide to take away those displays and that opportunity for our community? And I was told that they did not know. Not only did they not know, but I have been unable to determine where this directive came from. Everybody, I have spoken to the director of the library. I can't determine where this directive is coming from. I therefore conclude that it is either coming from the city council or from the director of the library, but I find it hard to believe that she would be operating individually in this mammoth decision. In 2020-2021, I had a beautiful experience here at the library with my 7-year-old African American daughter. As we walked into the Orem Library children's section, she saw a Black History Month poster hanging from the ceiling and immediately said, Mom, look, that is so cool. She told me how much she loved the library and that she had decided to be a librarian when she grew up. I was so touched by the visible effect that seeing that poster had on her. The next day she said, Mom, can I tell you something? When I see Black history posters in places, it really makes me feel like I belong there. The impact of seeing a simple poster and book display at the library had a huge impact on my daughter. My daughter is with me tonight. She is 8 years old. She is sitting in the lobby because she was scared to come in here tonight. She heard me practicing my speech. She heard me discussing this issue with my father— with my husband, I apologize, her father— and she is now sitting Sitting in the lobby of the very place that a year ago made her feel so welcome and seen and like she belonged. And tonight she is afraid to come into this room and sit in front of you.

I'm not sure why your daughter would be afraid to come in here unless you've told her things that would cause that to happen.

Well, daughter knows that there is a controversy.

She knows that the heritage must have been removed, and she doesn't understand why.

The heritage—

understand why no longer Black History Month is being celebrated at the library.

That has not been removed. So I'm not sure why you have this—

why—

I don't understand where you're coming from because no one on the city council knows what you're talking about. So I would appreciate you not attacking the city council for something that they're not doing. That would be very much appreciated, and I would appreciate you not telling your— scaring your daughter from coming in here.

That's terrible.

Yes.

Well, I can tell you it's not the city council, so we'll need to figure out where it's coming from. I don't— I don't know. We'll look into it, but I appreciate not being attacked. But we'll look into it and see what's going on because we don't even know what you're talking about.

None of you know what I'm talking about.

Okay, none of you were responsible for the Pride Month, for the books in the Pride Month being moved to the adult section.

Amy, I sent you an email earlier, and I am responsible for directing the staff. Now, we are always changing displays. Just because we did some displays last year doesn't mean we have to do them this year. Now, I did suggest that we focus on other things. The library collection is very large, and so I'm happy to continue to talk to you about it, but this is not the place. Okay, so you do take full responsibility It's my department, Amy. I take full responsibility.

Ma'am, ma'am, you're, you're done with your 3 minutes.

I will talk with the Children's employees. Thank you.

Moving on. Next we have the consent items. We've got item 7.1, approval of the meeting minutes. Minutes of the City Council meeting June 28th and minutes of the City Council meeting June 12th.

Mayor, I'd like to move those approval of meeting minutes to September 27th because I haven't had an opportunity to go through both June 28th and July 12th meeting minutes.

Do you want to move both sets or just one?

Yes, both.

Both sets.

Okay.

And then we've got a resolution for the— to complete the economic development plan, strategic plan. So can we have a—

So you can just make a motion to remove the approval of the minutes off the consent agenda and a motion to continue to the next meeting.

meeting that you—

I do that.

So I'd like to make a motion that we remove the approval of the meeting minutes for June 28th and July 12th to September 27th City Council meeting and keep the resolution economic development strategic plan for today.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

The consent items pass. Thank you. The first scheduled item we've got is an appointment to the Natural Resource Stewardship Committee, and I'd like to move to approve the other item. We did, right?

Well, that was just to continue.

We just continued the one, Mr. Mayor.

Oh, you added this?

Okay, okay, thank you. Okay, I didn't know what I was seconding.

Okay, next we've got an appointment to Natural Resource Stewardship Committee, and Debbie, would you like to take care of that?

Yes.

Is Paul here?

I didn't see him. Paul's been a very integral member of the committee. This is a reappointment. He has great ideas. He's worked on all kinds of cycling and green space initiatives, so he's been a great asset, and I am pleased to have him reappointed for another 3 years. So I would recommend that we reappoint him to this Natural Resource Committee.

Second.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

The appointment passes. Thank you, Debbie. Next, we've got an appointment to the Board of Building and Fire Code Appeals.

Mayor, thank you. These 4 individuals have served as members of the Board of Building and Fire Code Appeals. This body meets on a very, very limited basis. In fact, I think the last time they met was probably 4 years ago. And the nature is to review building and fire code appeals, but they still do require reappointment and your consent. So it is— I would ask for your advice and consent for the following reappointment of Brian Christianson, Stephen Frisbee, Michael Schroef, and James William as members of the Board of Building and Fire Code Appeals.

I'll second that.

He can't move, you've got to move.

Oh, I have to move?

Okay, I move. Sorry, I thought, I thought I heard you say I move.

Okay, I move that we appoint Brian Christianson, Stephen Frisbee, Michael Shrew and James Williams to the Board of Building and Fire Code Appeals.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Thank you. The appointment passes.

Thank you, Mayor. The next item on the agenda is, as you well know, Mr. Steve— Steve Earl has been serving as our interim city attorney. Since the resignation of our City Attorney Heather Shriver, Steve has done a wonderful job and in conversations with him is willing to accept appointment as the city's attorney. And so this evening, it's my pleasure to recommend and ask for the council's advice and consent for the appointment of Steve Earle as Orem City Attorney.

So, Mayor, I'd like to give advice— City Council advice and consent for the following appointment: City Attorney Steve Earle.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you.

The appointment passes, and Steve, you have a job.

Should we give our condolences or 25 and a half years.

Yeah, so he's up for 25 more, right?

That's right.

We're very, very lucky to have Steve.

You don't need to answer that.

We appreciate everything Steve does. He does a great job. Don't any other cities, like, take that into account? Stay here. Next item, 8.4, we have a public hearing ordinance to be presented by Jason Bench.

Thank you, Mayor. Let me Thank you, Mayor. Tonight is a proposed rezone, the Matthews rezone. It's at 258 North, 800 East. The applicants have about a 3/4-acre piece of property that they're wanting to develop. The first half you can see outlined in red is about 0.36 acres, so they want to do 2 lots that front on 800 East. In order to do 2 lots along they have to have it rezoned to R-6-5, which requires or allows a 65-foot frontage for the lots. So let me— currently it is zoned R-8, like proposing to go to R-6-5. If I can zoom in on the proposed subdivision. So they're at 65, just over 65 widths on the length, and that's why they're here tonight to They do meet the square footage as far as the lot sizes for 6,500 square feet. There is property in the back to the east that eventually they will propose to come in and develop, but they want to leave that as R-8, and eventually discussion will be had with the Planning Commission on connection or not connection of those streets. But that is not before you tonight. It is simply the rezone of the 2 properties, or the property that faces onto— excuse me, on 8th East. The existing home will remain, and then the property is to the north. Yes.

Mayor, I think several of us had a chance to go to this area, and we were more focused on the back piece, on the piece to the east. Is this okay with both the staff and our Planning Commission, the current—

So Planning Commission did make a recommendation for the rezone of the front portion. They have not discussed or have reviewed the back half.

So yeah, we're only talking about the part—

I'm only talking about the front. That's the application. They made application for a rezone, but it's only for those 2 proposed lots on the front. So just by way of information, as I stated, the Planning Commission did make a recommendation for that, just for that area that's outlined in the red. Thank you. Any questions that I can address?

What's the lot square footage? Square footage of the lot on the north.

On the north, let me go back.

The other one said 71.

What's the one on the north?

Square footage, 8,600. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

As you can see, there is a shared driveway because of the narrowness of that. They are proposing to do a shared driveway, so the new home on the south will have a shared driveway with a lot to the north.

And this doesn't affect any streets anywhere, right?

Does not. They'll simply have access to 8th East.

Jason, are the streets— the zone across the street, is that R-8 as well?

Going to the west?

To the west.

Yes.

Because, I mean, from the aerial, they all Kind of look like they're about the same size.

Yeah, I mean, there are some narrow lots in there. They are zoned years ago as R-8, but the lots were probably in existence prior to that zone being overlaid on them. So some of the lots are narrower.

So they're a narrower, deeper lot versus—

Right.

Yeah.

You can see there is a lot to the north that's zoned R-5, back when we used to do the R-5. We currently do not rezone properties to R-5.

Any other questions? Would someone like to make a motion? Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, we'd like to open this up for public comments. Is there anyone who wants to come forward?

No one wants to come forward.

I'll make a motion.

We've got to close them. Oh wait, we've got somebody. Come on up.

Guess I won't make a motion yet.

This is your last chance.

Hey, since nobody else is coming forward, and since I've never been to a council meeting, I just want to say I'm for it. And I live directly behind this development. I live at 866 East 280 North. My name is James Facey. I'm more affected by the potential future road that, that, or cul-de-sac that may be developed.

But either way, we're right next to this property, and I am for it.

And as far as I know, everyone in my neighborhood is for this rezone.

And that's all I have to say.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

It's always nice when people want to do what we want to do and It's all good.

Close the public.

Okay, we'll close. Oh, we've got one more.

Hello, I'm Gary Bodley. I live on 850. I just want to say, and say I'm not particularly in favor of rezoning in general. I know that has been a common, you know, I mentioned this to the planning committee a few weeks ago and, and was told, you know, I was actually quite surprised with some of the responses that I got of, well, this isn't what happened in my neighborhood, so it's not a big deal, and it's just a small change. But my concern is these, these small changes over time, you know, okay, so let's rezone this one to an R-65, and then who knows, I don't know what the next zone is, but these small changes over time add up. you know, into big changes. And my other concern is, you know, we allow this rezoning, and then when the City Planning Commission forces us to put the road through, which I'm very opposed to, by the way, then we're going to see a rezoning on that street as well and introduce even more cars, you know, and more parking on our street. So I, with all due respect, I am not in favor of this rezoning.

So thank you.

Thank you. Any other comments from the public?

There's one more.

I'd like to second what was just said about the zoning. I, I would oppose any additional expansion of the zoning into the into the area behind what we're talking about. If you go to Lehigh and you see they put these big homes on narrow lots, and it looks just so bad. I mean, it's the California method, right? I don't want that in my neighborhood. And we also, you know, Down the road, we need to address this cul-de-sac versus the through street. I have a feeling it's going to be pushed aside, but 18 families want 2 dead-end streets. And I'd appreciate you taking this further down the road so that we can discuss it.

Thanks.

Any other comments? Okay, we'll close the public comment portion and see if any council—

I'd like to make a motion, Mayor, that by ordinance the City Council amend Section 22-5-3A in the zoning map of the City of Orem by rezoning the property located at approximately 258 North 800 East from the R-8 zone to the Second.

I, I don't know, I'm thinking about it.

Keep—

I don't care what the rest of people vote, but I gotta think about it. So if you guys want to go ahead and vote, I'll think about it for a minute. So, well, hang on. So are the lots across the street about the same size? Are they about a 6.5? It looks like the map that there are a lot of those lots are 6'5. I know they're— I know it's R-8, but it looks like they're smaller than that.

They are, they are. My name is McKay Matthews, I'm the applicant, and they are smaller, but it is zoned— as you look at the city map, as mentioned, they are R-8, but they are smaller lots. And so what we're proposing would fit in within that neighborhood on 8th East.

So do you live in that one house on 8th East? We live And so the other issue we're talking about is, is your issue as well, isn't it? That round, you know, trying to figure out what to do with that road.

Right, right. And that'll be an issue where that wasn't— we needed to get the rezone completed, and then we can go ahead and submit our preliminary plat and kind of go from there. And that'll deal with, with the east part of it.

And what you're going to submit would be a cul-de-sac?

Yes.

supported by most of the neighbors, from what I hear.

Okay.

Yes.

So they're good with the cul-de-sac. This does— but this doesn't impact the cul-de-sac at all, from what I— and I said, I sat in the Planning Commission, listened to all this too.

But no, no, it doesn't. It doesn't impact the cul-de-sac. It's just out on 8th East, the 2 lots that front on 8th East.

So this puts another house— would you put another house in the other lot?

Yes, our youngest daughter and her husband just bought the old home from us, and they're fixing that up, and then we will— and they're living in that home expecting their first child, and, and then there would be an opportunity to build one more home on the small lot to the south of the old home.

Okay, I'm ready to vote now, Mayor. Okay, yes.

Aye.

I'm going to do kind of the same thing as Terry just did. I am— I'm concerned if we're setting a trend of going from R-8s to R-6.5. I don't particularly like the 6.5 zoning, although in this case I did go to the neighborhood meeting, and after that meeting I went over and knocked on the doors of the homes on both sides of this area, and both of those individuals, both of those neighbors who I felt would have been directly impacted by this, said that they were in favor of it. So for that reason, I'm going to vote yes on this.

I, I'm just gonna say, as far as, as far as the property zoning goes we're talking about right now, I mean, to me it makes sense what you're trying to do, right? And so I am going to vote in favor of it. I, I will give a lot more concern to whatever happens with the cul-de-sacs and the road being put through and all that, because I think there's a lot of neighbors opposed to that. But as far as this goes, I vote aye.

And I have nothing to say, so I'm gonna vote aye.

Aye.

Not to be outdone, I'll vote yes and aye.

Okay, the motion passes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, we've got one more. Another public item, 8.5, another public hearing ordinance. And Jason, if you'd like to present that.

Yes, so this is kind of a minor cleanup item. Right now we have in the ordinance a fee that's associated with the moving of a house. The council also dictates that in the budget every year, and so we want to just change it to the fee, whatever the fee is a part of the budget would be the fee that we charge when they of a house, instead of having it codified in the ordinance. And then the building inspector, which is now— you see it's to the chief building official who would be the responsible party. So it's just those minor 2 changes. Planning Commission did make a recommendation of this.

We'd like to open public hearing for this item. Does anyone want to come up? Oh, you're leaving instead. Okay, if there's no public comments, we'll close the public comment section and have a vote. Someone like to make a motion?

I'll make the motion. I move that we amend portions of Section 2214.8 and 2214.8, moving a house, building, or other structure Pertaining to inspection fees and personnel who approve site and building plans.

Second.

Second.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

The ordinance passes. Thank you, Jason. Last, we've got item 9. Any city manager items from Jamie?

Yes, Mayor. Thank you. Just a couple of things. The first one is related to our heritage tank project. This is the project that's at 4th South, 4th West. We are scheduled to release the bid on the tank construction next Monday, so they will have— contractors will have approximately 6 weeks to bid on the project, or probably a little less than 6 weeks to bid on the project. We also hold a mandatory meeting with all potential bidders they've prequalified. So we will have these bidders essentially look at all the specifications and requirements, and then they will bid the project. And that is set to be released on September 19th. So that process will get underway in earnest next Monday. In addition to that, you recall that we've talked with you about Hillcrest Park and how that project will be bid in 2 specific phases, the first one being a demolition phase, the second one being a construction phase. We have finalized all of the requirements for the demolition package, so not the construction but the demolition, and that package will be released for bid on September 29th. Last City Council meeting, there was, during the public comment period, a concern expressed about the Green on Campus Drive, and I just wanted to give you an update. We have had directly— in fact, Stephen Downs, our Deputy City Manager, has had direct contact with the manager for the Green on Campus Drive. We actually have a meeting scheduled with them in about a week and a half, just aligning schedules and vacations up, but we're going to sit down with them and have a specific conversation about security and some of the issues that we have, as you might expect when we have college population in a student housing complex. The Green on Campus Drive has 1,600 tenants. One of the buildings is actually exclusively used for UVU's honors program, and they do have one married couple who is part of that complex that serve as essentially resident assistants. So there is a married couple that live in that one building that is exclusively leased out to UVU for their honors program. In the past, UVU had a different apartment development that they were using for their honors program. but this year they moved it to the green on Campus Drive. So when the representation is made that in fact UVU has use of the building, that is correct because they use it for their honors program. And they do have one resident couple that is there responsible for the management and to tend to the needs of the honor students who are in that complex. We did address with them as well That there are tenants that are older or more mature than some of the other tenants. There are actually 20 tenants that are over the age of 30. And there is one specific tenant over the age of 40, and we have expressed concern that one, that the project be for students, and they have confirmed that all the individuals they have there are enrolled at UVU, and they have also consented that in the future they are willing to set the age threshold at 30 for those that are looking to lease into, into the project. So I know there were some concerns. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that we were following up on those concerns and trying to address them directly with the property manager. and make sure that that project is used for student use.

Can I say something about that?

Just recall when we were approving that project, or when— not me, I wasn't on the council then, but I specifically remember them saying it would be for 30 and under. So it appears if we've got 21 people who don't meet that qualification, yeah, there's a problem there.

And so there are 1,600 tenants and 20 of them are over 30. Stephen, in reporting to the property manager, 19 of them are in their early 30s. So they're not, for example, in their late 30s, but they also have agreed that in the future they were— they will be more focused on that 30 limit.

So, Mayor, I've got a question for Jamie on the water tank and the update on the drilling. I've had a few people ask me about that because I know it stopped and we ran into issues, but maybe you can just give us an update.

Sure. So there is— when they will go and ream out the final hole and pack the hole of the well, they need to pack it with a specific gravel material that is clean type gravel so that there's no, I guess, infill infiltration of material into the well. We actually took delivery on— or the contractor took delivery on that gravel material about 4 weeks ago, and they actually tested it and it didn't meet specifications. So they actually— and you might be surprised, but this material is something that is not available in Utah. We actually have to get it from California. So we actually went out to a different vendor and they were forecasting a 6 to 8 week supply chain delay in getting that material. At that point, the drilling contractor who had the rig said, well, I can't have this rig sit idle for 6 to 8 weeks. I'm going to move the rig to a different project. So they moved it to a different project. I believe it was in Wendover.

Oh, was it Vineyard?

Oh, okay. I heard Wendover, but—

The rig that's coming in is coming from Wendover.

Oh, okay.

So they moved the rig from our site to Vineyard. And then we got the gravel sooner rather than later. So now we have the gravel, but we don't have the rig and the rig needs to come from Wendover. And we anticipate that it's going to be about 2 weeks to transfer the rig. So we're about a week into that. So I would expect us to be up and running here in the next week and a half and finalizing the well. So it's just a matter of timing. And we were thinking it was going to be 6 to 8 weeks to And they came in earlier, sooner rather than later. And now we only have one piece of the puzzle, so we need both pieces to complete the job.

Thank you for that info.

Can I say something?

So, Jamie, when I drove by, it looks like a big white, almost bags of— I don't know, I'm assuming that's the material that needs to go in the—

That's what I'm, I'm assuming that's what it is.

I haven't—

they're super—

yeah. Are we securing that in any way? I'm not sure anyone would steal that, but—

Well, the property is fenced off.

Okay.

And yeah, I mean, it'd be hard to jump over. You can't throw it in the back of an F-150, if that's the—

because that'd be a Ford and it wouldn't be able to pull it.

Yeah. I agree with Councilmember Spencer, but We're not going to go there. And just the last thing, I just want to make you aware of the fact that I will be out of the area from Saturday through next Wednesday. So thank you. That's all I had. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Jamie. Someone like to make a motion to adjourn?

I will make a motion that we adjourn.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you.