City Council · 2024-03-27

Hey, welcome to our work meeting today. Today we're having a divergence. We're just having a work meeting and then our city council meeting afterwards. There will not be one. So, so today's just a work meeting and we're going to start out right out of the chute with—

this is kind of heavy for right out of the chute.

75 minutes of numbers.

Hey, that's the only reason we're really having this meeting.

We usually work our way up, you know.

Yeah, ease into that so we can skip items 2 and 3.

So no, we want to hear about—

all right, so we're going to turn the time over to Brandon to present the budget, and, uh, we're right on that.

All right, I appreciate, uh, Mayor, and thank you all for somewhat accommodating, uh, moving the, uh, work session to today so that we can do this. I will not be at the next council meeting, and so This was partly, like I said, through the department because of me. And so, but in order to keep our budget process moving along, we need to have this work session to kind of discuss 3 things today. Operational expansions that have been submitted by all the departments, and then our fleet discussion about what we're anticipating doing within our fleet, and then our IT. would be the last item to discuss today, and Carl will discuss that one. So to begin with, just to give you a brief outline of the request, the operational expansion request process. So we receive through our software submissions from all the departments of things that they want to expand on, feel like they have a need, and that they want to try to fill that'll help them either do their job more efficiently, do things safer, potentially do things better, and as far as maybe even need additional personnel. And then we also, as part of that process, then go in through and evaluate, are there revenues? Is there going to be any sort of revenue creation potentially by this item? Are there potentially cost savings in the sense of maybe less personnel or other efficiencies that are gained because of whatever it is that they want. And sometimes there's not. Sometimes there's a— I mean, in the sense of those things are soft costs that we always talk about, are forward-looking, and we just need to be able to evaluate that item and see how it's going to help us down going into this now and into the future. So we go through that process, we meet with our budget subcommittee and department staff. To review all of those expansions. And then at that point, Brent, we make a decision as far as, okay, this is something we really need to do. These things are maybes in the sense of, is there going to be enough money in the budget to be able to fund those particular items? And then occasionally, and a few of those are nos, or I should back up. Occasionally we look at them and we say, hey, there we can find a way in our current fiscal '24 budget to take care of this.

And so we potentially find some of those and remove some of those as well.

Then, and we also have on occasion some that are nos, and then we're not going to move forward with those. Once that has been kind of outlined, then we move forward with our departments and setting that up to then come to this meeting for you to present to you some of the items that we feel are worthy of consideration and that we can accommodate within our budget. So to begin with, talking about personnel. So we have 2 items this year in relation to police and some recreation items. The police department would like to add a new position which with an emphasis on domestic violence, uh, and detectives specifically devoted to that particular, um, type of thing. That would then— we, we expect that that would be filled by an existing officer, but then obviously we need to backfill, uh, for the officer who would be, if you will, promoted.

Mm-hmm.

Um, see the associated cost related to that. Uh, we also have 2 individuals, um, within our rec department who have been proposing to make section managers. And then there's an associated cost for doing that. And they have a slight change in what they do. And so that's part of why we have these promotions. Any questions about any of those?

Right.

Then within our fire department expansion, we are They request— they're requesting $51,000 for FF&E replacement. So currently, they have for things such as mattresses within their building, washers and dryers, stove, things of that nature. Currently, there is no specific funding for those annually. So they've been basically scrounging— basically scrounged together funds each year to try to do those, and those are all done on basically a haphazard basis, or basically sometimes even as they break down. So we would like to specifically set up these funds on an ongoing basis to make sure that those things are taken care of. Doesn't necessarily mean that all of those funds will be used every year all the time, but there's sufficient funding there to be able to do those on a regular rotating basis. And we have a schedule. The fire department and Trevor Bell helped put together a schedule when we should expect that we can replace those. So you can think of it somewhat like a sinking fund in that regard. They also have some software that they've accumulated over the years and continue to have needs for those, and all of those softwares that they use continually have increases. And again, there has been no necessary dedicated source to be able to cover all of those increases from year to year. And so the time, quite honestly, has come to where we want to set aside those funds to— so that they're not stealing from Peter to pay Paul any longer, that they can spend the monies that were budgeted for something else on that something else, and that the budget specifically accommodates for those software increases. Currently, we receive an EMPG grant. It's an emergency grant. Currently, that grant— the grant funds we receive from that grant go to pay a portion of Heath Stevenson, our emergency manager's salary. We would like— at this point, we basically are saying, you know what, we're going to have an emergency manager. We're going to pay those dollars. We would like to use, in essence, the grant money to do other things within emergency management, whether that's training, whether that's certain equipment. Things of that nature, specifically related to emergency management. So he has a fund available to him of those grant monies to be able to do those kind of things. And so that's what that particular— Uniforms, similar to software, uniform costs have continually continued to rise. And as we get more and more fire personnel, and obviously we have more uniforms to take care of as well. So again, we're also asking for an increase in that particular component. These are, these are all ongoing items, so they're not one-time. They would be— we would then put them into our regular budget to be part of our, what we refer to as our base budget each year. Um, second to last item, carcinogen removal therapy, and this is, this is, uh, initially here at a trial. As fire personnel go to a fire and they are being within smoke, being around things that are floating through the air, they potentially bring in those carcinogens into their body. And this is a new therapy that Chief Sanderson is wanting to attempt to try to be able to, be able to remove those carcinogens immediately after, or close to immediately after they happen. So that they're not exposed to those carcinogens for a longer period of time. And like I said, we're— it's a trial period for this initial year, and they'll evaluate and see how that—

feel like that's working and being taken advantage of, because they're not— I don't—

long from what I remember, it's not going to be required, or—

That's right. We'll make it available to them, and the time period is 24 hours after a fire. So we got to get them in relatively quickly. No, it's, it's more like an infrared sauna. It makes you sweat out your— the potential contaminants that your, that your skin has absorbed during that, that time. There's some interesting science behind it, and that's a— it's actually a recommendation with the Fire Protection Agency and EPA. And so we thought we'd give it a shot and see. I mean, and we're not going to force them to go, but we thought we'd at least make it available for them to do that.

So if you have I don't know what you call them, the inspectors that go in to find causation or whatever. Do you feel the exposure there is less, or would that be necessary?

It's either tremendously less or completely eliminated. We can control the environment at that point in time. They shouldn't be in there, or if they are, they have suits that they can don that will protect them. It's the fire department members that are actively extinguishing or working or searching within the fire that That, uh, that we're targeting this.

So, thanks.

The last item for fire are fitness memberships. That could be to, you know, whether it be VASA, Planet Fitness, etc., that are to try to keep fire personnel closer to their service area instead of all having to come to fitness center to do that. Just allows us to keep them closer to those areas.

Station 3 would still go to the fitness center as well, so still have a presence there.

They have the option?

Well, I mean, right, it will be subsidized if they want to go somewhere else.

Does that—

that's what this might be.

So even if they live closer to the fitness center, if they choose to go to another one, they can. We'll subsidize that.

Yes, I mean, we would— that's, that's in the budget. We would provide that, but But we are— our expectation is, because we want to support the rec center, we love it. It's just— and, and it's in Station 3's area, so it works. But the other stations that are further out, it would allow people to stay closer to their—

I don't think Station 3 minds going to rec. No, they like going to rec center.

Yeah, they do.

But the other stations, that was the concern last year.

Yeah, they have no way to—

no membership because it's canceled, right? So this is positive. This is great news. And it's a lot easier to get in and out of the restroom than it is at a lot of suburbs. It could be— it's just overcrowded. Yeah, yeah.

And it allows a lot of people—

It's in your area.

Yeah, and they work out of the slower times as well. I mean, they'll target that time frame, um, so that they try to reduce interruptions and things, which are— which is good because it works as far as, you know, getting back out to the engine for the ambulance. So I think it's a good thing.

But this is a plus because we're letting them go stay in their area.

Yeah, that's the idea.

Like, if they had to drop everything, there's 2 minutes away or whatever. So, right, having to go across town.

Yeah, that was, that was the concern we heard as a council.

Save lives.

Okay, thanks. Those are all the things for fire. So moving over to the police side of public safety. So these 3, all 3 items, quite honestly, are items that We have not— they're sinking fund type things related. And I say sinking fund in the sense of we— while we won't be necessarily saving the money up every year, it's a dedicated source each year that they have available to them that they have not had in the past. So thereby they can, as the need comes up for these replacements or to get these items, they have an available source to be able to get them. Whereas before it was the same, similar to fire, it was like, oh gosh, where do we have some money that we can go fund these? Particularly in the SWAT area, we had a discussion, I don't know how many of you might remember from last year, where SWAT has been woefully underfunded in the past.

Right.

And so we've done our best to try to bring the dollars available to our SWAT team members up so that they can maintain, you know, whether it be the vest, I think last year we were talking about vests and they were wearing vests that had expired, maybe even 3 years expired. That's obviously—

we say that's unacceptable.

So these kind of things are similar in nature to that. So all 3 of those.

Any questions with any of those particular items?

In our management services side of the house department, so the initial thing is our Babbel store as well as employee recognition. So under the employee recognition side, currently, we had set aside some money quite a while back for leadership, our leadership programming stuff. And we have just, we've just been carrying that money forward.

It has now dried up.

So what we would like to do is set up a more permanent, instead of just doing that funding at one time and setting up, in essence, a somewhat smaller amount, and then being able to then just plan on, oh, we have that every year, making that regular recurring available funds. Our Babbel store has been wildly popular. And so as part of funding that, an additional amount related to the Babbel store so that we can continue to enjoy having our employees enjoy being employees of Orem and wearing our stuff and marketing Orem in that regard.

have.

So, so that's what those 2 particular items are related to in that, in that dollar figure. Um, uh, the newsletter and community outreach, an additional $40,000 there. Um, if I remember from our conversation, we, we generally send out 4, um, newsletters.

Is that what it is?

Printed.

Printed newsletters.

And we want to take that to 6.

And there comes a cost with mailing to the entire city Even just adding 2 additional, which is very important because not everybody is on social media, and to just rely on that would be— or email even. We really do appreciate what you guys have done with that.

I think that's—

I've gotten a lot of positive response from that, our newsletter.

And there's even— I mean, there's a lot of people that aren't on or don't look at their email or whatever, but then there's something about a printed document too, that it stays around the house longer and has more chances to be seen.

It just has—

it's more impactful than a digital notice. And so, yeah, like today says, so over the last few years, we've tried to make sure that we're having print outreach, and we started 4, and it's been so successful we want to move to 6. And it's just a great way to get information out to the city to make sure there's good transparency and people know what's going on. It creates community also, as far as it just makes people more engaged and proud of their community.

In order to build public trust, you gotta communicate a little bit more. And we find in order to communicate more, it takes multiple touches. In order to get multiple touches, it takes a multimodal response. So we want to make sure we're using all of the ways to effectively communicate.

Uh, the next item, record shred and digitization. As we move over to the new city center, we are attempting, primarily in the city recorder's office, attempting to shred as many— digitize first, then shred— as many things as possible.

Makes it a little harder to put back together.

But, yeah, so trying to make, make better use of our space in our new city center and, you know, things that we don't have to have in paper any longer, we can get those digitally. So that there's not only— Teresa, you can— was this not only a shredding company to come shred and some personnel to be able to do that?

I'm trying to remember what—

We hire a company that comes and they take it, shred it. And they give us documentation that the shift is completed. And then the digitization is— some records are being sent to the UCI for digitization, building records and things like that.

So there you go.

And then the last item is our new Strategies and Innovation Division. I would like to get some software to be able to create some citywide dashboards, which to develop some metrics that they would then use within that dashboard that they can then have out there for all of us, as well as citizens, to be able to see and evaluate and have ready at the ready at all times.

And so it's a way for them to do that in an easier fashion.

If you recall, this was one of those recommendations from the MGT study that we start to proactively develop and track on a live basis our key performance indicators and things that we'll want to maybe be able to quickly and easily refer to, to the public in our communications or in response to frequently asked questions.

And then the top right corner, finance. So we've currently been using a product called ClearGov for— I mentioned the operation expansions that we use ClearGov, not our own internal software for that. So entity— all of our departments go into this ClearGov software and submit their operation expansions as well as all of their capital items. At this point, we've been evaluating whether we want to move forward so that we did that kind of as an evaluation period, and we've really liked that software. So we want to be able to— there are some shortcomings within our current software. Now, not that we couldn't potentially internally develop those same things within our software, but this is as we evaluate within our programming structure. which things are core elements within our existing software versus which things can we do outside of that core. This is one of those elements that we felt like, you know what, here's a software that's built specifically around this budgeting that we can alleviate some of our programmers from having to be able to maintain and help with. we can hire a 3rd party and use their software that they use, that they've developed and worked on with lots of different companies that we can now use to do our entire budget package. And then they have a relatively easy way to then upload that, you know, the data we get put into that software and then upload it into our general ledger system. So this would provide some— I mean, this was a little harder to evaluate. It has some soft cost savings in relation to it. not only from programmer time, but also from a user's standpoint.

It's significant.

We've found that it's significantly easier for our users to understand and use, especially as they get into it more and more, comparatively to our current software. So this will be the cost of the— and then this is the— we have a company currently that we use to— software that we currently use to do our budget, to create our actual budget. And not only the electronic version, but the paper version. And this software would also eliminate that. This is the net cost, so it eliminates the use of that software as well. And now our budget, instead of being in essence in 3 different places, is now all in one place.

And you mentioned also, Brandon, another side benefit, but kind of a big deal on this is that And maybe that's where the name comes from, ClearGov. I don't know, but as far as from a transparency standpoint, so all this information is done on this software in a way that it could be uploaded to a transparency portal. And it can be available to the public if we go down that path, but it really puts us in a position where we can be as transparent as possible to the public.

Thank you for bringing that up. Yes, that is one of those downstream ideas. We would have to develop that with our Current tool to be able to do that. But with this software, they have a product that's already available. So then it's just a matter of, hey, you create the website where they can go to, or even our existing website. And that's, that's updated as often as we want to update it. And that data lives there so you can have budget and actual comparisons at whatever time we're able to then update that information. Budget would always be there, of course, but as we update actual information, however often we do that. That is a potential addition that we see down the road in relation to the software as well. The Recreation Department, a couple of items there. Rec coordinators, to switch all of our rec coordinators who are now on AmeriSystem, to switch them over to a STEP program.

So does that mean something different when you say direct coordinators to that program?

Because I've never been inside a fitness center. Yeah, this is a specific program. Yeah, so this is in our— as many of our officers, public safety personnel, and public works folks, and many of our other divisions have gone away from our merit system into a step payroll system. This is just yet another one of those where we're making that change, and there's an initial cost to doing that. Then Karina and the staff that work with her in doing various events throughout the city, whether they're internal events to Orem City or whether they potentially include outside citizens and other individuals. They would like to be able to have their own equipment, a trailer with tables and chairs that they can then bring with them wherever it is that they happen to be set up. So if you think about the opening of Hillcrest Park—

Wow.

Is that in the fall?

I believe.

You know, that would be something that they potentially would be able to just bring this trailer and be able to have it right there available. And then there's, I believe there was an audio, new and improved audio system tied to this as well. And so that's what that has to do with.

Any questions about any of anything on that page that you may need to complete?

Okay.

So I—

that's all of our fiscal '25 operational items. I wanted to just touch on a couple of things because I mentioned that there are some things that are brought forward that we're able to then go ahead and say, you know, we can use fiscal '24 funding. We have some money available to do that. So in the police side, they want to remodel the range up the canyon, and we've found a way to be able to accommodate funding that $85,000 remodel cost. They also have a need for help at the front, if you— at the admin area, helping Katie as well as helping all of the officers who are in the administrative roles and hiring an individual for— to assist in that regard. Then, and then those— that money is then already built into the '25 budget.

Yes.

Is this police money, this $160,000 you're talking about?

The, yeah, the $75,000 part.

Oh, the $75,000.

The firearms part would only be a one-time type cost. On the IT side, and Carlo will touch on these a little bit in his discussion, but I thought I'd at least just mention here, there are 3 items that we are intending to try to take care of here in this fiscal year, either because there's a need to or we can.

Take care of those currently.

Those are the 3 items that we have related to that.

So does this—

do we need anything for, like, for a new building for your IT?

Is that—

Not this year. So far, we budgeted last year well enough that we think we have enough set aside for it. We might have to ask for some more, but we'll know shortly if we're close or not.

But we're—

Looking like we're good.

Okay. Yeah, we're not gonna have any surprises when we move in and, oh, we don't have this.

No, well, not before then, but hopefully we'll have it all in. Okay. And like I said, I planned hopefully well enough. The issue is some of the, some of the inflationary cost increases were a little higher than I thought, and I was hoping also some of those would come down. The shortage, a lot of prices went up more than just inflationary. They were just kind of insane. As the scarcity was so bad. So things are less scarce, but prices aren't quite falling as fast as the availability is coming back into play. So we're trying to, we're trying to push them as far as we can, as far as squeezing our vendors to get us the best possible pricing we can. And I'm doing pretty good there. We've got actually quotes out right now that I'm having them re-squeeze and squeeze again.

So, okay, good.

But we should make it before we have to Awesome, thanks.

As far as that security software that the state offers, have you had any luck getting any?

Yeah, it's—

so they offer a pretty good package in terms of if you had nothing. ARM's been pretty good in terms of, you know, being able to find some funding to do more than just the bare minimum. And so what we're currently doing right now is a little bit better than the state offers. We're still going to pursue the state offering as an augmentation to what we have because they may catch things that maybe our software misses and So we're not going to leave anything on the table that might give us better coverage. But it's, it's unfortunate that it's not quite as far as we are. So it'd be a step backwards if we scrapped ours and saved the money and got just what the state offers.

Sure.

But we are going to take advantage of those. Like, there's several programs we're taking advantage of right now already that would cost us money that come from— some of them come from the state, most of them come from actually the federal government through— offered through CISA and some organizations that have federal funding to offer programs for free. And the number of things being made available to us just over the last year is just kind of spiking. There's, I think there's about 12 offerings of different programs that weren't there last year that are there now that we're all trying to piggyback off of and use those.

So.

Well, I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about or where, but I was in a MAG meeting and I was really impressed because a lot of the other municipalities hadn't gone to .gov yet, and we had. And hats off to you for doing that. That's a good thing because it was some big cities. It was something I would have expected done that already, but—

We're not 100% there yet. Their website's still at work right now, but we're in the process of converting those over. We're taking a, you know, small methodical approach to do each specific site at a time so that we don't have any hiccups along the way. And we're probably 30% through that process right now. So we have a ways to go, but we started it early so we could be done in time.

Awesome, thanks. Thanks, Carla.

Um, so that's all the general fund items. The only, uh, fund other than general fund that has some expansion items related to it is within the solid waste fund. Um, similar item related to the newsletter and those community outreach, those, those mailings, etc. The solid waste participates in a piece of that funding in relation to, you know, those things are outlined, spring cleanups and fall cleanups and all of that kind of stuff. So they have a participation element related to that. And then obviously we've had some meetings with My Hometown Initiative, and solid waste fund would fund a piece of that as well. So that would be some funding that would help in that regard. So that's all of the operational expansion items for the time being.

And so— Oh my gosh, what is the PSA?

I can't read it.

The legend lives on.

It looks like I need to review other presentations.

Stuff to fill slides before the meeting.

So anyway, that's all I have.

I'm going to turn it through any questions before I turn the time over to Stan Carter.

I'm just glad I wasn't wearing that same thing today. If I can just put one point of emphasis in where Brandon started off, you can kind of see as Brennan goes through here that You take into account first the council areas of focus, and we will try to, from that, try to establish a bunch of priorities, you know, taking care of our existing employees and looking at our big capital projects. And then we look at these expansions and expansion, potential expansion personnel. Even amongst that, you may have noticed some themes from, you know, in terms of there's some things in the past. that were paid with one-time funds and one-time expense that we're now suggesting we've looked at on a multi-year basis. We want this to be sustainable.

So let's pay for it with ongoing revenues and commit to doing this on an ongoing basis.

And so that's starting to incorporate then some of our budget guiding principles. We want things to be transparent. We want things to be sustainable.

We want to make sure we're—

that the closest associated revenue is going towards associated expenses. So just all that, I just want to summarize, there, there is a why, there is a process, there is, there's reasons why these recommendations have come before you. And then now moving forward, now that we've shown it to you, Please know that if there are additional questions or concerns or just general things that any of you want to know, we're absolutely open to that feedback moving forward.

Can I just compliment you guys for just a second? Because I really appreciate— like, I know Dave Spencer worked with the fire on some of those things I saw up there, or some things he talked to me about. So I just appreciate you all just being responsive to when we bring things forward. That you are supportive of listening. I mean, it's— you're the note— you guys know everything, right? We don't, and I'm willing to admit that. But I really do appreciate how it's, you know, if there's a wish, you address it, you try to make it happen. And, and I feel like we're just in this symbiotic relationship now that we're all just kind of helping to build a better org and to make things better. So thank you, because that's I mean, like I say, they've talked to me about some of those things, and to see them up there, I'm just like, awesome, that's great, thanks for doing that.

Yeah, obviously when you outline your areas of focus, so, you know, we, we all try to do our best to find those things that fit within those areas of focus because we know that's what you care about.

So do our best.

Obviously there are other things that we need to start regular operations, and we want to make you aware of So there's some of those as well, of course.

And I appreciate knowing that you are very conservative.

Rather, so I was stepping out there.

You want bread?

All right, Zane, all yours, baby.

Okay, thank you. Thanks, Carrie, for handing these out. You see the, the side with the most colors? That's the general fund. If you flip it over, those are enterprise funds. Kind of made so you can put it in a 3-ring binder if you want, and it'll fold out and you can see both sides. So we're going to start, um, on the general fund side of the sheet. Uh, anyway, we've been working on the— actually had my first meeting with the fire department on Halloween. Discussed vehicle replacement, and we met with police and, and, and everybody else in the city, the different sections. And we met, um, at Public Works, and we met here, uh, with the management here twice to discuss this. And, and I appreciate everybody's help with this. Um, it's a— there's a lot of thought that went into this. So anyway, um, to start off with We have 5 different purchasing procedures. We'll say we have current leases, and those are vehicles that we, we already are leasing, and we're going to release the next vehicle. We have new leases. Those are vehicles that we are now going to, instead of purchase, we're going to lease the vehicles. Internal leasing, that's where we Purchase the vehicles ourselves. We take advantage of the state contract pricing, and we're going to now sell those vehicles and basically leave out the middleman. We started doing that 2 years ago, and we have some vehicles that are coming up to make that first switch and see what we— how that works out. And we'll discuss that here in a minute. And then we have purchases. That's a lot of vehicles we have.

Most of them are purchased.

Sinking funds are where we're going to save up, save up, uh, and purchase maybe next year, or maybe, uh, I think we have some that are several years out. It helps us to, uh, uh, bear that big financial burden over time rather than all at once.

So, where's your leases?

So we're going to start with current leases. Uh, we're proposing $109,000, uh, to release the new vehicles as these, uh, these vehicles come to the end of their 2-year term here. So one would be for Police Department Administration, uh, 3 for Investigation Services, one for Support Services, and then 2 for the Fire Department Administration. New leases. These are vehicles that we're going to now lease.

When you put the cost on top of leases, so is that $109,000 the cost of the lease for the entire term, or what is that number?

That's for the 1-year term. These are 2-year leases, but the $109,000 is for the first year.

So this would be the first year's cost?

Yes.

Okay.

And most of these will be the second year cost, these current ones, correct?

This will be the first year.

These are—

we're going to get new vehicles.

So the next slide—

so I went back a slide. Sorry.

Next slide, new ones.

Yeah. So prior slide, current ones are ones we already have. One year, we've already had one year.

We've had 2 years. We're trading the vehicles in and now getting new vehicles.

And just so it's re-upping, you're basically going to the 3rd year of 3rd and 4th year.

That's what I wanted to hopefully clarify for myself. Yeah.

Yeah.

So it'll be a new vehicle that we're leasing. We're extinguishing a lease and getting a new lease for a new vehicle.

Oh, it's a new vehicle.

It will be.

Yeah, we find that the 2-year lease seems to be ideal as we're taking advantage of state contract pricing and then lower miles vehicles that we can now sell rather than if you keep them out 3 or 4 years. Just loses that optimal value.

So when you say it's a current lease, it's a current lease for the purpose of that vehicle?

It's current in the sense that we're already in a lease. We've already had that vehicle on a lease to begin with. And so now we're going to enter into another new lease on that same vehicle.

So that's kind of different than what Chris is saying.

Yeah.

So it's still a new vehicle, but it's not new in the sense of These, what, 5, 7 vehicles we've already had, already been leasing them. The next slide, those are vehicles that had been purchased in the past that now we are going to begin— it's the first time we have started, we're going to start leasing them. So they will then be considered current the next 3 years.

So on these current leases, is this the second year?

It's the third year. It would be 3rd year of our lease of the same vehicle.

Well, it's going to be a new vehicle though. So 2 years ago, 2 years ago we started the lease and they're 2-year leases. The 2 years has come up. We need to get— we need to turn that vehicle in and we're going to get a new vehicle, another 2-year term.

So it's a, so it's a, a new vehicle for that purpose. So yes, so yeah, that's what we're talking You're substituting your—

So the choice is we either go just buy a vehicle, right?

Yeah.

Or we continue to budget a lower cash flow amount on a year-to-year basis by continuing to do a lease purchase, a lease purchase, a lease acquisition, rather than completely buying new all at once and paying everything all at once.

So I'm sorry, we lease the first 2 years and then we buy it?

No, we do have the option.

So that could be a choice. We're recommending that we don't do that.

Okay, we just do another lease for cash flow purposes.

So, so current leases is you have a vehicle, you have it for 2 years. Now you replace that vehicle with a new vehicle for year 3 and 4 in that same spot, right?

Correct.

Yes. Okay, and then this is the cost per year of that particular—

Yes, those 7 vehicles.

And Mayor and Council, if I, if I could mention, Dave and I are kind of a sidebar here, but we've, we've talked about this for probably 6, 7, 8 years. Why don't we just dive in and do a ton of leases? Well, some cities have done that, but in an economic downturn, uh, when you, when you don't have that lease option available, then you have to then purchase vehicles, and it really puts the cities, uh, at a disadvantage. And so we've been easing into this concept and this idea strategically, I would say, even surgically to some degree, where we're not— we wouldn't recommend doing all 55 patrol vehicles because if you flip them every 2 years, you have to outfit them $10,000 with a light bar or other types of equipment and so forth. And so it doesn't make sense on certain vehicles.

Mm-hmm.

But what we're representing to you is what we feel is maybe a sweet spot Of leases for the city.

Okay, so, so you're balancing between purchases and leases.

Exactly.

And if you go into a downturn, you don't want to be 100% leased. You want to have that flexibility, right?

That's right.

That makes sense. So there's a lot more to it than just the slideshows.

We've—

5 years of thought have been into this presentation, quite frankly. I mean, we've gone back and forth and we're feeling confident in this.

Yeah, that sounds good.

I mean, if you could go back to that first slide that showed the diversification of procurement types. So, to reemphasize what Chris is saying, we're trying to be very strategic about diversifying how we acquire our vehicles and each specific type of vehicle to make sure that it's the optimum way that saves the city money, the most money, and helps us cash flow The replacement and maintenance of our fleet.

And gives you stability by mixing those different strategies together.

Diversification allows us to weather changes in the economy. And to some extent, you're relying on Thane and our expertise to have a good finger on the pulse of the market for the specific type of vehicles.

Okay.

Thank you, everybody, for helping with the clarification there. Okay, so we just talked about current leases, and now we're going to move on to new leases. We're proposing $189,000 for new leases. These are vehicles that were traditionally purchased, but now we'll be leasing them. And this would be in the police department. We have 7 patrol sergeant vehicles. We have 1 investigation services vehicle and 1 support vehicle, support services. These patrol vehicles will be lighter outfitted than—

Yes.

Than full patrol, as sergeants don't transport prisoners. So they won't have a cage in them. They won't have a light bar, but they still will be fully functional.

And so that will help us to To not have quite the large upfit on at least a few.

Internal leases. We have referred to this in the past as the OREM lease program. And it changed a little bit because that kind of makes you wonder, wait, wait, who's doing the OREM lease program? It's an internal lease program that we're doing ourselves. And this is just— we purchased the vehicles and we're functioning like a leased vehicle, and that in 2 years we will, uh, then sell those vehicles and buy another new vehicle or new vehicles to, uh, replace those. Um, we have 2 for the police administration, uh, one for fire and medical services, uh, one vehicle for city manager, uh, city management, and one for management services.

And, and can you— I don't want to go in the weeds, but So in here you got 5 vehicles, $287,000 on the internal lease. On one of the previous slides, you were showing like 9 vehicles for basically averaging $20,000 a vehicle, $180,000. This seems a lot more expensive.

Is it?

It is because we're purchasing the whole vehicle ourselves instead of leasing. So yeah, we lease a vehicle for, let's say, $20,000 rather than purchase them.

For $60,000, $55,000. So, and that—

is that part of the balance in the net debt? Is this more expensive or is this less expensive?

Part of that, uh, depends on, on the sale of the vehicle, big part of it. And there's a lot of municipalities that function only this way. They did— they buy everything, but they, they flip their vehicles regularly. Um, we have— we did sell a couple vehicles here, uh, over a year ago. We did Quite well on those.

And, uh, soon here we're going to sell these 5 vehicles and see how it works out.

Uh, we—

I have hopes that we'll do well, but then again, I, um, my connections with— compared to somebody that's, uh, leasing or auction company, maybe, maybe a bit limited. So we're gonna, we're gonna find out how this works out.

So when you're showing this $287,000 cost, it should be a lot less than that from the, the selling end, right?

I'm glad you brought that up. So what the intent will be is as these vehicles vehicles then are sold, the money from those sales will be accumulated in an account. So say some few— 2 years down the road, let's say, we would show you that same $287,000, but we would show you that there's a credit. Say it's $200,000 of those funds we've set aside, and the true cost of now buying those new vehicles is really only going to be the Difference. So, so that's what you will see as we go down the road, down the path of this internal leasing program. It's really— I think we've only had like 3, 2 or 3 vehicles on it up to this point. So, and again, trying to diversify, this is another way that we're able to not only— now we own the vehicle, we have the choice at 2 years. Do we want to get rid of the vehicle or do we not want to get rid of the vehicle?

Yes.

Is it still maintaining its value? Oh, yeah, it's still bringing quite a good value. And talking about what Chris mentioned about being very surgical in the type of vehicle that we're going to use in that particular program, we're very particular in that particular sense because we obviously want to be able to sell a very high-dollar vehicle that when we go to sell it. So those are going to be much more limited in nature just because of that. But you're exactly right.

Down the road, you'll see the benefits.

Essentially what we're banking on is that, again, we can get a good state contract price for specific vehicles that we think will have a good resale value after a couple of years. And so, again, like Brent's saying, we want to be very Careful and distinct, strategic about what we do that on. And that's why we're only recommending it with 5 vehicles. But we've seen evidence from other cities doing this similar thing. They have now a track record over the last handful of years of recouping most, if not all, of the original cost of the vehicle.

And I thought you can imagine That particular internal program, these are saying, is very personal heavy. Takes a lot of Faye's time, takes a lot of my purchasing— Trevor Bell's time in being able to go through the purchase process, evaluating that, making— putting it up for sale and going through that whole transfer process. So we're a little— Even that much reason, bigger reason for being a little bit careful and somewhat limiting the number of vehicles that go through there because we don't want to necessarily overburden either one of those with becoming a car dealer.

Right. And that would be interesting to go down that path. I mean, it almost seems like, I mean, depending on that time constraint or whatever, um, I mean, there might even be a scenario where you get a car dealer to be a consultant or something like that. them some amount of money and say, figure this out and optimize it for us, because they do that all day long.

Technically, that's what our lease companies do for us. So, so we're trying to evaluate, like, are they providing us with enough value in that regard, or can we do it on our own? And, you know, the fee in essence that they're keeping, do we now get to keep that?

And that's, that's a, it's a better deal.

Yeah, even then, even if it is a great deal, we can only take that so far.

You know what I said? We don't, we don't want to dig so deep into that that it's consuming all of these guys' time.

Yeah, because we don't want to hire somebody to do that, because then you're losing all your savings in a situation.

Exactly.

In essence, that what— that's what we have been doing though with these leases, because— oh yeah, so the first, the ones that you were showing up there, the first 16 vehicles We have a lease agreement with somebody that is doing this. We're paying them to— then we're selling it back. They're buying it back from us after 2 years, and then they're selling it, and we wash our hands of it. So now we're going to see, well, can Thane do that? And can Thane do it better? Or Trevor, or Brandon, or whoever the new car salesman is for the city. The thing is that we're really worried about, though, is there's a cost. that we pay them, and we're going to have to eat that cost in the form of time or other opportunity costs because we want him to be available to do his job. Other duties as assigned as a car salesman, uh, that's a big— that's a big ask. Maybe if he's doing 10 cars a year, that could take up a lot of time.

All right, so I'll open a deal.

I'll go car dealership.

Yeah, no conflict there.

But then if you move on to the purchasing, as you kind of go move down this, this big spreadsheet here, and you see the big dollar amount, $800,000 for purchases, and you look at the individual costs of these vehicles, and you, and you, and then you take a step back, big picture, and you see that our total fleet value is somewhere around $40 million. And then the average life of our first responder vehicles, our emergency vehicles, you know, for patrol, we try to be at about 4, tops 5 years, and then they're getting to 100,000 miles. We've got to make sure that we're absolutely responsive, you know, these are in good working condition. Then on our, on our big fire and ambulance apparatus and big dump trucks, then those are A longer life of 7, 8, 10, 12 years. Well, you divide $40 million by— I don't know what, just 10, and that's a $4 million average cost for you, right? We're trying to— we're trying to contain those costs as best we can by diversifying how we buy them so that we can actually maintain our fleet that's in good working conditions. Just getting big picture and boiling it down to give you a little bit more why or context to why these recommendations.

And that's what you're saying, like the overall fleet is $40 million.

Yeah, and that's a guesstimate number.

Yeah, and I mean, that kind of puts this in context.

Some of these numbers look big, right? But it's context of $40 million, just a small part of the budget.

Right.

Really big when we're putting the budget together.

But you're so good at it.

So, uh, back up one slide for a second, uh, and you saw this up here, but we, we're predicting $172,000 of, uh, residual amounts this coming fiscal year when we sell these 5 internal lease program vehicles, and there is a small residual lease to be fulfilled. So, the late for that specifically is FY 2025, just to note that that won't come in until we sell the vehicles. So when we meet this time next year, we'll have a really good idea of how well that's panned out. So, um, And then, okay, so moving on, purchasing for general fund. Uh, you'll see that the list there, uh, Parks Division, a tractor, sweeper, uh, 2, uh, utility vehicles, 2 riding lawn mowers, and a 1-ton flatbed truck. And then in the Police Department, uh, there's 7 patrol vehicles that, uh, we'd be purchasing.

Excuse me. The tourists.

Yeah.

So we made a concerted effort, you know, at least once.

We have some Ford Tauruses, which you may know, they don't even make Tauruses anymore.

So we've made a concerted effort this year to try to get rid of as many of those Ford Tauruses as we can.

Is it the Explorer now?

Yes.

Uh, the last item here, um, for general fund or our sinking funds, we would like to set aside $600,000 for the fire department. Uh, $500,000 would be to fire apparatus and $100,000 would be for deployed ambulance. Um, which brings us to our, our totals here for general fund, uh, almost $2 million. And there's the breakdown for each of the departments.

And again, that's still a big number. But when you go through and count the number of, of first response vehicles that were up for replacement this, this year, figuring out how to make sure that they are readily available to provide the service that they're intended for— I mean, I'm just counting just police vehicles.

It was like 22.

22. vehicles that were coming up for consideration this year. I think it— I mean, it required us to go through this creative and fine-tooth comb review in the recommendations, but we've ended up with a much more palatable number that we can afford. Versus if we had just said, let's try to purchase.

Brent, if I could mention also that this includes $600,000 of sinking funds for fire and medical services. So comparing to last year, we wouldn't have included that number in here. So it's really truly 1.385 if you want to do an apples-to-apples comparison, and that's similar to what we did last year.

Just so, so you know.

Okay, that, that is the general fund. Um, let's move on to enterprise funds unless there's other questions. Enterprise funds. Um, I should have put buyback program on that second slide, but, uh, we have purchasing, uh, sinking funds, uh, and then we have buyback program. Buyback is where we We do this a lot with our yellow iron, our construction equipment with backhoes and loaders, where we can bring those in for 3 years. We purchase them, but then we can sell those, and we're— we have newer vehicles for our fleet. And we're actually saving money rather than keeping the vehicle in the fleet for 10, maybe 15 years with the breakdowns and the maintenance. It has been very successful. We were leasing those vehicles in the past, most of those on the buyback program, and the leasing got quite expensive, and it's been very cost effective to go to the buyback. So here in the stormwater fund, we're requesting $442,500. That would be for a backhoe, a sinking fund the 2nd year for a 3-ton dump truck with standard plow. A street sweeper would be year 2 of that sinking fund. We saved some last year and we'll probably save some more next year to buy that. A jet rotter, um, that's one of the big sewer trucks you see flushing the lines, um, and the gutters here in stormwater. Uh, sinking fund year 1 of 4. And then a riding lawn mower.

Hey, Thane, just to give them an idea, what's a jet rotter cost?

They're Uh, $550,000.

But street sweeper, they're about $350,000. 310 dump, about $120,000.

So there's $1 million we would have to spend in a given year to fund those 3 items.

So you can see why we want to have sinking funds in relation to those, because it becomes very difficult to fund those if they In any given year, yet alone if all 3 of them happened in a similar timeframe. So, so this makes it much— and then on top of that, it allows Chris and all of his staff to be able to plan for when we're going to be able to get those vehicles.

And then especially if there's any kind of an order period by which they have an order time.

So now they know the money's going to be there. I can get it ordered now. Say it's a 6-month timeframe.

I know I'm going to be able to get that vehicle because the money—

I already have money to get it. So that's another reason, and you'll see that throughout all of these enterprise switches.

And for background as well, we include these costs in our master plans going back to 2014. So these, these numbers are big, but we plan for them. In other words, we've taken every single vehicle, every single piece of yellow iron, Every single dump truck, every single excavator, and so forth, projected it over its lifespan over the next 20, 30 years. And we, we develop a plan to pay for them as you go over time and incorporate that into our fees to pay for, pay for all of these. So these are, these are all part of our master plan and analysis there.

It's like we need a better name than sinking. We need, you know, this is savings.

That's very true.

Very true.

Is that a gap?

No, it comes from bonds. Bonds use the term sinking fund, which is you have to set money aside to— the bondholders require you to hold this money over here to make sure that you're going to make the bond payment.

So that's where the term—

if you want to use a meme of me next year, we've got to come up with a new name.

Start planning now.

Yeah, you start thinking.

Wow.

Yeah, can you note that?

You don't have a name sinking fund. Tell us something more positive. Growth.

I mean, who wants to invest in a sinking fund, right?

If you got some financial things, you maybe can come up with something.

I bet I can.

It's a positive growth fund.

It's our innovations account.

Building fund.

We got a year to think about it.

Unless there's more questions about stormwater, we'll move on to streets.

Even like replenishment.

There you go.

Renewal.

I like that word.

Renewal fund.

Streets Fund 20, we're proposing $294,000. for 2 backhoes in the buyback program, uh, a loader for the buyback program, and then a 1-ton dump with standard plow. This would be the second year, so we'd be purchasing that vehicle this coming fiscal year. A large trailer, an enclosed trailer for the concrete crew, um, a medium sport utility vehicle And then we'll start seeking funds for, for the 1-ton utility truck that pulls that concrete trailer around eventually.

Hey, can you talk about that enclosed trailer? I found that the most interesting piece of equipment in all of them.

It's got a toilet in it.

Yeah.

What is that?

The enclosed trailer, you may have seen it around town. It's the concrete crew.

They're very busy.

They have lots of forms, shelving. And the one they have now does not have a bathroom, which can be concerning if someone needs to jump in a truck and be gone for a bit.

Or—

and it just makes sense to, to put a bathroom in there. We have another point repair trailer at the treatment plant we've set up that way. So, um, and also an air conditioning unit there to help, help with the hot times.

So—

That's awesome.

So, Lenny, if you can imagine, there's 4 or 5 guys out there working hard for 4 hours at a time, and for one of them to leave the job site and come back, it's just more efficient, uh, in our opinion, to have something there where they—

we can have a—

Yeah, because the work stops while that guy's doing it.

Right, right, right.

They're interdependent on each other, so it's a part of the efficiency.

Good find, sir.

Okay, let's, uh, let's move on to Water Reclamation. Um, $356,000 is what we're proposing for this coming fiscal year. Uh, similar to the last 2 enterprise funds, we have a backhoe and a loader in, in the buyback program. Uh, we have a jet rodder there that this will be the, the middle year or second year of a sinking fund saving up for that. And then a utility vehicle. Um, the utility vehicle that they have here in Water Rec will be repurposed to, uh, the Parks Department to help some savings on the general fund there. And then, uh, we can't forget water on 51. Uh, we're proposing $397,500 for 3 backhoes, a loader, and an excavator in the buyback program, 2 half-ton pickups, a 1— a 2-ton utility truck, uh, the first year of the sinking fund, a hydro excavator. Um, This would be the 3rd year of a 6-year sinking fund. We've started kind of early on the sinking fund, and it's working well. And then a generator. This generator is there to, uh, generate power if power goes out so we still have drinking water. Um, the one we have is, is old. So, um, again, here's the total amount we're requesting for the general fund. I've already reviewed a similar slide. And then here's a summary of the enterprise funds that we're asking for this year.

Are—

well, enterprise funds and then the total. You'll see there that the stormwater, streets water, reclamation and water, those add up to the $1,490,000. And then when we include the general fund, um, We're now at $3,475,500. So to compare with, with what we have done in the past, here's a slide showing the general fund dollars from 2017 to our proposed fiscal year FY 2025. Like Chris mentioned, you see that the number looks a little scary there. $1.9 million, but traditionally we didn't include the fire apparatus in that.

So it's—

yeah, so just look at fiscal '22, see what happens when you have a fire apparatus purchase. Yeah.

Enterprise funds. Enterprise funds. Um, there's the comparison. For the last 8 or 9 years. And then, and here's my final slide for, uh, again, one more summary. Are there any questions?

Okay, it's a lot of detail, um, covered a lot of area. Thank you. So to give you an idea, we— these guys start—

I think they probably started earlier They start involved when Trevor is involved with them early on, November-ish timeframe, working through what to put together. And then we have a meeting usually early January to kind of start going through an initial one of these to kind of talk through it. And then we go back and the thing comes through several different iterations of it where we kind of finally come to a point where we feel comfortable Bringing something forward to you at this point.

So yes, it's quite a process to go through.

And even I don't see all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes with Chris and Reed and things going through, and TigerPay going through all of this stuff.

You know, it's interesting too, is you think you'd just be able to, once you give us the go-ahead with your approved budget, to go out there and just pick it up and get it off the lot and whatever. But it can take months. even years to get some of these products.

And so it's, uh, it can be extremely challenging and frustrating, but we do the best we can with, with the market and what's available. I know a few years ago there was an issue with police cars. There was a shortage. Are you seeing any of those kinds of issues, not necessarily police but other vehicles? Um, the very point that Chris just mentioned. Sometimes it's hard to find exactly what you need.

Yeah, we, we've had to be creative, um, and police cars were a big issue this year. We had to, uh, uh, we have— there's 4 different dealers on the Ford state contract, and I worked with all of them and, and was able to find one left. We have one that'll be here, um, any day now. We've had other problems with, uh, jet rotors, dump trucks. It's been challenging.

So they're not just sitting out on the lot somewhere that you can go and say, hey, I need that jet rotor, that jet rotor. There's a lot of planning that goes into their purchase.

How long have our ambulances been—

Our ambulances, uh, this will be 3 years in May. We still don't have Our newest ambulance is, uh, we've got 2019. Unbelievable. The idea of ambulance every year has been a big bottleneck, but now we hopefully will receive 4 of them in June. Oh, uh, definitely a, a game changer. Be— I'll say before COVID things were very consistent and the pricing was consistent, you know, 3 to 5% maybe a year. And we've had just crazy price increases and things, things are getting better with a lot of the purchases.

I will say that.

It's a little mix what you're buying and who you're working with.

Kind of like what's going on in the general vehicle market, right? It was really locked up about a year ago.

Yeah. Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

A lot of detail. Thank you.

Sure.

Yeah, Chris, Chris asked me why we're, why we're buying so much Ford, not Chevy.

Uh, because they're crap.

I'm actually a Chevy man, uh, for my—

I'm a Chevy man.

Make a meme about that too.

Throw that in the mix.

Dave, Ford, Chevy.

There you go, presentation extras.

The Chevys have been hard get, and they haven't offered us as good a, uh, price in the state.

Um, St. V's do a better job than—

Carlo, we're, we're up against our 75-minute agenda limit. We did start a little bit late, but you can—

I mean, we want to be available for any questions, right?

I'll go real quickly.

Um, yeah, so appreciate the opportunity to be with you guys today to, uh, talk about IT. I feel like we're kind of a black box or kind of work in the shadows, and once things are going well is probably when you start to realize we're good at these. But, uh, appreciate the opportunity to talk about some things we do. These are for review, so I won't spend much time on these, but this is just kind of where your money's been going and what we've been able to accomplish. Uh, one that I'm proud of is is the top couple on there. Tonopah is the data center in St. George that we have. That's our offsite disaster recovery location. We put some effort into that last year to make sure that if things went south here, especially with the new construction, we'd be okay. And next year, before Christmas, we actually flipped the switch and ran our database out of St. George for the day.

Perfect.

So, we have some some proof of concept in, you know, in the books that we can actually survive out of our location. So, we're going to continue to work on that for the rest of our systems, but the core system works out very well. You've probably seen a couple of these before, so I won't spend much time on that one, but if you want to ask some questions later, we'll come back to it. Some more projects that we got done last year. And end of this year. So just for review, so we'll go into the new stuff. So part of our focus for this coming year for development, we've got quite a few projects that have been backlogged for quite a while, and we've been able to take and leverage some transitionary employees that we have. Well, we have a couple of employees. Robert Wang being one of those that's nearing retirement, that we're friendless. We pre-hired people to accommodate their retirements.

We knew that those are, those are fixed dates coming soon.

So we kind of pre-hired their replacements so we can cross-train them. And so we're getting some benefit by having those on staff, both transition knowledge as well as work on some of these new projects. And so these are some of the projects that are slated for this year before we lose Robert in August. Um, getting to the meat and potatoes. Um, so our operations budget is kind of where the bulk of money spent. Um, yeah, you know, development's mostly just salary itself, uh, for those, those staff. So one of the big things we wanted to do this year is actually split the division into 2 and split development off from the operations side so we can kind of let them focus on just that part without kind of feeling like the operations piece. It also helped us realize what the true costs are for the software that we have versus kind of mixed together with the operations. And then combining that with security. So in a lot of organizations, you're seeing that security is being pulled away from operations and taking more of a front and center role in the organization because it's right now it's kind of being, you know, tail wagging the dog as opposed to the other way around where IT is kind of dictating what the company should do instead of the company dictating what we're going to do for security. So we wanted to make sure that we're taking that approach as well and making security front and center for the whole organization, not just from IT and not having IT kind of dictate what those, those are. So, uh, we're promoting Steve Cannon to that new division manager role, and there's a little bit of money allocated for that. And we took the opportunity to With that split, look at our other staff and positions and decide if we can optimize those to be a little bit better. And of course, security's position, we wanted to find a way to squeeze in there because that's something that takes increasingly more effort and more time for us to manage. And so we're trying to find a way to open up a security position, and we looked at the staff levels we had and the budget we had available. And with some strategic changes, we were able to move some positions around and create a position without actually allocating any actual budget dollars to it. So, so we opened up a security administrator position without having to pay for it.

Awesome.

Yeah, Brendan encouraged us to be creative with our budgets this year, so I got creative and made it happen.

So Yeah, that's looking at both sides of the ledger. So not just the expense side, but help us come up with a way to pay for it on the revenue side.

Yeah, so let me go over color coding. So the green is money that we're asking for. for this current fiscal year or next upcoming fiscal year, but we found a way to fund it with, uh, with budget expansions from this year. So greens are taken care of, but I haven't actually asked for, for budget for next year. And then the blues, what the ongoing costs are, uh, and then there's purples at the bottom that are, um, monies that we would normally need to spend, but because those 2 programs are coming to us from the state and the federal government They're up there offered to us at no cost, so, so we get to reap that benefit.

So, so just to clarify, so the green is—

Green is what it's going to cost us this, this year, but we're going to pay for that with the, uh, the budget expansion request for 2024 budget. So it won't be 2025 number, it's just going to be added to our budget this year.

Um, so if I already explained that right—

So, so those are the ones that gives you Recall I mentioned we're going to use fiscal '24 dollars to be able to cover those costs in green. The cost in blue will then be part of our fiscal '25 budget and thereafter.

So does that mean the blue is additional for '25?

Correct, yes.

Or not necessarily additional, but what the, what the actual cost is. So So it's not costing $165 additional, but that's what that budget item was. So it's $7,000 additional from what it was this current year.

And then the—

So maybe just to simplify, think like network access control. Yes, $50,000 is the green number, $8,500 is the current blue.

Yeah, so that one, that one's a program where it's, it's heavy on the upfront cost because there's some equipment involved in there. And so we have a higher implementation cost than the ongoing costs, since that's a lot for licensing and renewals. So the $8,500 is for renewal licensing, and the $55,000 includes the licensing and the hardware that goes along with it.

Okay, that's what was confusing me, the bigger numbers up front that reduce like that.

Yeah, so if they're bigger up front than the ongoing, it's because it's got some hardware installation costs associated with it.

Okay.

And so, and that's definitely one of them. Network access control is There's light on the ongoing cost, but it's kind of one of those harder components. We have actual hardware appliances we need to buy, and what that'll do for us is limit— be able to limit who can connect to our network. So we won't let devices connect to our internal network that aren't trusted and allowed devices. So it's increasingly a more needed component with the security climate that we're in. Employee development number there is just kind of to compensate for, uh, the change of numbers in the department, kind of the roles that they're in. We need to increase the training that they're doing to, uh, keep up with technology as it's evolved and some software development techniques we're evolving into. So it's going to require some extra money. Expansion of Wi-Fi in parks doesn't have a number listed there because, uh, I guess between Brandon and Brandon, decided that could actually get moved to a different department's budget.

I'm not sure if that's just enterprise funds or if it's actually parks, but it's essentially fine.

It's in cap.

It's in our cap.

So it wasn't the IT number, so I took another moment to— hypervisor servers. Those who don't know what a hypervisor is, and since you probably don't, is these days everything's virtualized. People talk about the cloud. most things run still as a server, but instead of being on physical hardware, it's run as virtual, virtual device on one server and run many servers. So this is our hypervisors, the core server that runs our virtual machines, which is where all our systems run on top of. So we're expanding hypervisors into Atomic Wind to be able to do that disaster recovery and near-time recovery. So if we have an event, we can recover down a ton of points in a short amount of time. The backup systems that we're operating off of are currently getting quite out of date. The current systems are actually running on hardware repurposed after it was already well over its life, so they're, they're extra old. So we need to replace those with new systems, and then there's a software component that's an ongoing cost there. The Microsoft Server licensing, that's That's what our core systems are mostly running on, Microsoft operating systems. And those require— Microsoft updates their server operating system about every 3 years on the lifecycle, and we have to be within 1, N+1 of that version to keep security updates. So we've got to keep current as they go current. So we need to— we have an upgrade coming up next year as they move to a new version. of Windows, as well as we're creating a sinking fund to pay for that in the next iteration, 3 years after that, since we haven't been kind of planning and preparing for that. So, so that $30,000 is a sinking fund number. Um, our Google Workspace licensing, uh, we, we signed a 5-year contract with them, uh, 5 years ago that ends in 2025. So, uh, as that contract gets up for renewal the price is going up, plus our discount levels maybe not as going to be as high as it was before. So just a small increase in what that, uh, cost is. And we funded some of that with— or funding less of that, um, this coming year because that doesn't come due till almost the year's almost over. So there's $10,000 for 2025 and then $30,000 going forward. Microsoft Intune is, is another security product that we are looking at doing a pilot with that'll give us more control over mobile devices, machines that aren't on the domain. And it's another kind of necessity with the security climate we're in. It's going to cost pretty hefty amount of money, so—

and that's a subscription base.

So we're going to give it a try and then hopefully fund it going forward. AdLumen is our managed detection and response.

provider.

So we were on Article last year with a pilot, uh, that went pretty well, but they didn't give us very favorable renewals. So we went to Adlyman to save a little money. Um, this is the product that you brought up earlier, Mayor, the state's offering SentinelOne, but it's not quite a full MDR. So, uh, we felt like it wasn't worth abandoning what we get, uh, from the, the Adlyman services for the states. But that's a significant number. So often the state offers offer some, some money there down the road. Um, these other— the other ones on there, you know, just some inflationary cost numbers. And then, uh, the city center move that I mentioned before should be covered. And then, uh, a couple state programs that, uh, should also be covered with the state. So, anything else?

Awesome. Welcome to the digital world.

Yours is easier because most people don't know what it is.

We just love that you know it.

I try.

But yeah, anyway, I mean, like I said before, it's noticed, right?

We're ahead of the game.

Yeah, we're trying to be. So I think you're—

To summarize, development is our software side, and we're trying to diversify more what we do in-house versus Out of house. But then when we get out of house stuff, we've got to figure out how to integrate it with our existing software. The operations side is our networking. And so all the servers and fiber and Cat6 and all these switches that are going around. And then it's also our help desk guys who help you or help us when we have our technical issues. Phones and computers and that sort of thing. The other big point of emphasis is security, so protecting ourselves against cybersecurity attacks and being able to quickly be operational in the event of a big size.

We've had—

we've been backing up our data for quite a long time.

But the big thing is that now we would be able, if we had a big event, a big fire, big earthquake, we lost our servers here, we'd be able to get back on much, much quicker today than we could have even just a year ago. Right?

Yeah, a year ago would take us probably months. And now we can do parts of it right now in minutes.

Hopefully the rest of it in similar time.

And then if there's something down south, how does that affect—

If it's in both places, then right now we don't really have much.

Well, I guess if it's only down there, you can—

It's only down there, then we just don't have our disaster recovery anymore, but we have our primary sites. And so, yeah, trying to keep it all as redundant as we can. We chose St. George because it's just far enough away that a big event here probably won't impact them quite in the same way it will us, but it's also economical for us to get there. It's convenient for us to access, so, you know, kind of Closer than probably one would normally want to go, private enterprise location, but for our nature of our clientele and our business, it makes sense.

That's true.

Yeah, and I will just say, as far as from what I've seen over the last couple of years, I think we made some really good improvements in the technology. I think the path we're on now is setting us up for the future much better than where we were before. So I think you guys are doing a great job.

Thank you.

Forward thinking. Thanks, Carl. Okay, that's all our budgets now for this week. Thank you. All the fun stuff. Yeah, there you go. Here we go.

As Tyler starts to set up Tyler is my assistant public works director.

He's over public services, and public services includes parks, which includes cemetery, urban forestry, all of the park areas, uh, and then, uh, and then sports fields. So, uh, cemetery is under his purview.

Um, about 5 years ago, 6 years ago, we developed a cemetery master plan. There's a lot of discussion regarding, uh, when should we open up the lower portion of the cemetery. The lower portion of the cemetery, the decision was made by the City Council about 3 years ago to open that up. As you drive up there today, you'll notice that, uh, there have been quite a few, uh, burials that have taken place. And if you want to go to that first map on here.

Sure.

I would say over the last 10 to 20 years, there's been a steady, a steady, a regular increase of cremations that have taken place, and then, and then burials of the cremation remains in, in a vault or on top of an existing burial.

We allow for up to 4 of those on an existing plot.

We didn't have, per se, a targeted cremation area, garden area, if you will. We brought this concern to the council, and the council agreed about 4 or 5 years ago to help us to develop a concept and then to deposit money, formerly known as the sinking fund.

Aside into a We're gonna figure that out.

So, and we have about $370,000 today in an account for that. Uh, Tyler's been working with a consultant that has developed some ideas together for concepting this area that's shown in the highlighted magenta area on the east side of the lower cemetery, all the way up to the northeast corner of the lower cemetery. You'll notice that we also on the northwest portion, it's not as easily— you can't easily read that, but it does say that is the designated area. I will say that's a targeted location for the Women and Children's Memorial Gardens. Tyler and I have met with this ad hoc committee. Lenee has been significantly involved with that and played a significant role in that process.

Process.

As you might recall, there was the Pioneer children that were buried along 16th North, just west of 400 West, and the thought was we would like to develop some type of a marker location there. We're developing concepts on that right now, but it— but to actually target this location here on the northwest corner of the lower cemetery for A more formal location for people to come who perhaps have lost children through stillbirths, or maybe that were young in age and so forth. And it wouldn't be maybe necessarily for women and children, but I think, Renee, what you're suggesting is that maybe it's a family garden for, for children. Yes, we have, we have to develop a name for that.

Yes, we do.

But we're working on that.

And so I just wanted to bring that to you.

Because we want to bring the fathers in too.

We want to bring everyone in because everyone loses a child. So, but that is just—

we wanted to bring you up to date on that.

But that's kind of a location that we're looking at for that.

We have no concepts that we're presenting today for that, but this is the area of focus that we're looking at right now.

So with that, are there any general questions regarding the location of this?

and how we got to this point today before I turn the time over to Tyler.

If not, Tyler, please go ahead.

Great.

Thanks, Chris. As Chris mentioned, we've— we're currently under contract with a company called Sunline Design. I've been working with them and a team of our employees to essentially go through and develop some concepts for us to consider. I wanted to just kind of show you a few slides. We have gone out and done some field trips. We've toured Larkin Cemetery up on the High East Bench in Sandy. We've toured Provo, we've toured a number of other municipalities, and we're also looking at options online, seeking out inspiration and ideas for us to consider. We want to know and make sure that when we invest the city's money in a site like this, that we're, we're putting that money in assets and, and maybe services that would be appealing to the, to the public rather than just a big eyesore that we're not really going to be able to market. So I wanted to share a few slides with you and maybe share with you some ideas that we're hoping that our designer would implement. I'll use terminology that you may or may not have heard before. Typically, when we're talking about cremation and putting those into a final resting place, that's called a niche. I don't know if that's pronounced niche or niche, but I've heard it both ways. So, in looking at this image, right, I'm going to stand up and kind of point a few things out. These are all boxes that would be considered as niches that people could purchase and have their loved ones stay in. And the idea is, how do we make the space as impactful for the community in a place that is sacred where they want to come and visit and be near their loved loved ones?

Yeah.

ones, while at the same time trying to create value within that space to where it's affordable, right? Because these types of improvements cost a lot of money. But each one of these stones could be a niche. Each of these could be a niche. These could also be niches. I'll actually share some photos that we, we took from Larkin where there's also something called an ossuary. where it's actually a common vault where a lot of remains can be deposited in for a really good affordable value. And then maybe the names of that loved one would be etched on a larger stone, similar to what we've done at the Veterans Memorial, right? So I'll share a few of these different videos and kind of—

or photos.

This is what's up at Larkin Cemetery. We noticed that there's a wide variety in quality. There's a lot of companies and cities that have decided to import some of this stuff from overseas, and a lot of it is really finicky and rattly. So you can imagine, these are essentially a tile that can be personalized for the family, and these are like security fasteners that essentially fix that tile in place. Your lower value ones are rattly and kind of sound really cheap. They could probably be broken really easily, where some others are, are like really good solid granite. Provide a good value and a lot better security. But there's that option that we're considering, and I wanted to share this with you because when I start to show you the 3D renderings, a lot of just those 3D blocks will start to kind of make sense in relation to what we've seen. I really liked some of the options that they had also that are a more natural effect where they actually core out and hollow a boulder. So within this, under this plaque, there's actually a remain inside that boulder, and then they could personalize a bronze placard to go over the top of that on a rock. And we really liked the aesthetic of implementing that into a beautiful garden with maybe some waterscape. And then you've got a bunch of boulders, and it just seemed to be a really pleasant place for someone to maybe consider as a final resting place. This is also an option where they actually have cores underneath these stones. So a lot of options. I'm going to kind of keep cruising through here.

That's a—

those are some boulders that aren't currently being used. This is the example of the ossuary that I mentioned, where our previous sexton has his hand resting over that top granite cap. That would actually be removed, and the remains would be deposited into a vault below, and then their names would be etched into that. Stone, and then there's room for expansion. But these are, these are options that are being considered in the design that we're going through. Now we're going to start looking at what our designer has put together. Just a quick look. Some things that I love about what we're doing right now, you can see the orientation. We kind of showed that flyover earlier, so you could see it takes up that entire east side of the cemetery. The idea would be, this could be a common place that would be used for outdoor funeral services that we could program out for families to do. We're finding that graveside services are becoming more and more popular rather than the formal setting in a church building or a chapel. To have an outdoor service area where families can come and have that service outdoors within those gardens is really appealing. And we would orient this in a way that it actually would have Mount Timpanogos in the backdrop, the way that that service is kind of oriented in that direction. We've got a big pavilion there as well to take care of families if weather is not ideal. But you see, we got a lot of blocks in there. It almost looked like a sea of granite. That was one of the things initially that I maybe wasn't thrilled about, and I'll share some of my feedback that we've shared with the designer. And I'd be interested in your feedback as well if we need to steer things in a different direction. This is looking towards that pergola. We would have Mount Timpanogos in the background from that pavilion, looking at maybe a little water feature right there. This would be a place that they could have a service as well. This would be oriented looking more to the east from this perspective. This is looking to the west.

So each, each one of these would, would have a grouping of niches in them.

Yeah. As well as these.

Now, I think when we originally went over this design, there was room for— I think it was almost 75,000 niches. I don't think that we're going to be able to fill that in the next 40 years. That's an awful lot of space. I didn't like that these boxes are spaced out by only about 3 feet. He did a really good job of maximizing the space. being able to put as many in there as we possibly could. But my concern was, as you go through these, they're, they're packed in nice and neat, and it looks beautiful. But at our cemetery, we often have a lot of people that like to come and spend time with their loved ones and then spend time there. I wanted it to be a comfortable, inviting space where they don't feel like they're leaning against a bookshelf in a narrow library hallway almost. Where if someone else is coming to visit, they're easily able to get around from one another. And so the direction that I've kind of asked them to go, and what we've noticed in a lot of other cemeteries that we really appreciated, was rather than packing them all in really tight like bookshelves, let's create maybe some separate themed gardens. And we can create themes that maybe appeal to different people. So there's a place for everybody. Some of the themes that we've seen is like the Sunset Garden or the Garden of Hope or the Garden of the Atonement or whatever. And maybe some are more catered to— I feel closer to heaven in the mountains with a stream and rocks and trees. And maybe I like a more formal setting where, you know, we're just— we're looking at maybe creating Separation within the garden where we're still creating a lot of good useful space and value, but making it a more sacred, personable space that maybe people can connect with, that they're like, man, I really love this garden and this is perfect for me and my family, right? So this is— keep that in mind.

And so, Todd, I mean, you said $75,000, so What's— what would be the optimal 50,000 or 20?

I mean, what?

Well, you know, that's hard to say. I think what we need to do is we need to— we need to take this design and we need to look at our data on how much we're selling and what the real need and interest is.

What do the other cities have?

What are their—

much smaller than 75,000. Very, very small now. I wouldn't recommend— I think, I don't know that we mentioned, I think we did mention this. We were about $375,000. I think our initial target for this was going to be around $500,000. With the cost of construction and how costly some of these niches are, I don't think $500,000 is going to get us very far. I would recommend that maybe we would, we would do it in phases, 1 of 3 or 4 over time. And we would maybe focus on that northeast corner that provides the amenities for services. And then as that starts to fill out, we would then plan accordingly and add another phase and allow it to grow based on scale and need, right? So I'm in no way going to recommend that we— let's knock that whole east side out and do it in one big jump. Um, so yeah, does that answer your question?

So, Chris, yeah, how many plots do we have total open for cemetery?

I don't have it.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I mean, that's hard to say.

Come on.

Quite a few.

I don't know.

I can't tell you.

It's kind of the wrong number to say something. We'll send you a follow-up on this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With the stats. I know that on the other cemetery that like 98% of the burial rights have been sold. Doesn't mean that they're interred, but that they've been sold. And down on the south or the lower cemetery, the price is a little bit higher, but it doesn't seem to be deterring people from going there.

As you drive by there, there have been a large number that have been interred in that area. So the cemetery on the northeast, they've got The niche.

Yeah.

How many do they have?

How many?

Well, they're, you know, I don't know, but it's, it's, it's, it's very small. It's relatively speaking. Yeah.

And I think a few of those are actually mausoleums where they're above ground.

Yeah.

The entire casket slots. And we've looked at that as well.

I don't know that that's the direction we want to go with ours, but, um, yeah.

Like with any time we're planning or designing, we look at You know, what sort of build out, and then we, then we hone in on what can we actually do now and make sure that it's not something we'll have to undo later, right? So, I mean, Tyler throws out 3 or 4 phases, it may be we're talking like 10 phases.

Yeah, it'd be based on scale.

Is the movement going to cremation?

Is it—

is that the— is that a move?

There's an increase.

It's an increase in But that's key, right?

Demand.

Yes.

As to how much you build and how long, how often.

Yes.

And which—

this is why Tyler was the guy we had working with Adam Robertson and Masira to, in a sensitive, thoughtful nature, be able to make sure that we get something that is as high quality, has a great look, sensitivity to, you know, the visual aspects. of it, but also is within budget and is going to, you know, provide what we really needed. So it's that same sort of approach and attitude that Tyler has been directing towards this accreditation garden.

But— Looks good.

But we're bringing this to you relatively early because qualitative things can be subjective. If you've got input or reactions, we want to know about them so that we can now take that back to the designer and incorporate your reactions.

I appreciate your research.

You've educated me. I like your points that you were making earlier about— I mean, it feels like there's just not a lot of space.

Yeah, so it seems really busy.

If you were in that front row where you could be there, but if you're 2 or 3 rows behind it, Right.

You're just so removed.

Yeah, I think in my focus with our designers, I want to make sure that every single niche is easily accessible. But I also want to make sure that we're creating value in the space where it's a beautiful sacred space that they want to come and actually spend time in. I would envision that this is something that our, our walkers are like, wow, this is amazing, and actually want to take some time to be there, you know.

I mean, just, just looking at the niches, I mean, if you staggered them, you know, you had one here, one here, one here, then everybody have room to— and you could really do that with, you know, maybe not so many trees, or I don't know, expand.

But yeah, if you can kind of see this portion here, I think this is kind of with the idea of maybe another ossuary.

I don't think we need more than one.

I don't know that that's as highly, um, in, in demand as much as maybe some of the other options that are out there. I think it provides a really Good value for those that don't have a lot of money to have a really nice space and a beautiful garden that is affordable. But maybe that's kind of the idea is we have several of these pods that are kind of separated with different things, and each pod allows for some sitting area and some, some options within that general border where everything's accessible in a comfortable place.

So there's a piece of the whole.

So If you're on board with the direction I've given, the designer will continue in that direction.

The only thing I just want to mention is, when you look at that, it's beautiful. A lot of what makes it beautiful is the plants. And we've got like 8 months of plants and then 4 months of no plants unless we're using evergreens and different sorts of things. So you just want to incorporate that into it. You know, evergreens, for example, will get you through a lot of the year and you'll still have that look. Yeah, but just, yeah, anyway, I think the landscaping piece is going to be kind of critical to the whole look and the timeframe that it lasts.

I agree with you 100%. Every time we go into a project like this, we're trying to think of how do we beautify this throughout the entire year, right? So, with all of the plantings, we want to add value in the fall, in the spring with those beautiful blossoms, with the brightly colored leaves, with With the evergreens that provide color through the winter. That's something that we're going to take into consideration. In fact, I actually pulled Jim aside and said, I need all of your best horticulturists. And I've got Laura Bascom and Brooke Bellon and Riley Hunter all helping us to design exactly what we want, while keeping in mind, how do we keep this as labor maintenance friendly as possible? We know that this is going to come with a challenge to keep it looking beautiful. Especially with all the plantings in it. But we're taking all that into consideration.

Appreciate you pointing that out.

Because there's also beautiful shrubs that the canes over there, this branches look pretty in the winter. They look good in the summer too. There's—

yeah.

And I think with, you know, with this, and then when you have the children, what you're talking about, and then we have the Gold Star here, I mean, I think he's gonna have plenty of places that people can gather in to remember or mourn or whatever.

I think it's good.

I think we're doing a good job.

That's oriented, as you can see, looking actually from the south side. So we would have another something there at the end to kind of tie it in.

Um, but yeah, this is just kind of what we've got so far.

I was hoping to have some updated renderings to kind of show those segregated gardens, but he didn't have those ready for us So I'm sure we'll have another update once we get closer.

One thought, if you had more than one funeral or memorial service at the same time, could you schedule both those areas, the open space and the pavilion?

You know, that's a good question. I wouldn't want to take from the experience from one family or the other, but I believe we're looking at setting up that pavilion. I recommended that we make that a little bigger. It's a little bit small to actually get the whole family under there if the weather's crazy. And I believe we're looking at actually having a fixed something in there where they can actually rest the casket on. So it could be one.

Because I've seen times where I've seen more than one.

And in the cemetery, you have that too, where tents are right next to each other. I think we could accommodate that.

That would be the only thing that I would—

they looked kind of close on your diagram here, but Well, and I'm glad you pointed that out because it wouldn't take much to maybe segregate those a little bit with just a little bit of garden. Yes, to kind of provide some of that buffer that you need privacy if we did want to do both at the same time. I think we were also kind of considering if it's a really big family and a really big event, maybe it's nice to have it all kind of within that general vicinity, but that's a good point to consider.

I'll mention that already as a designer.

I like it.

Cool, looks good.

So a couple of takeaways: we'll get the stats on the cemetery, and then we're going to send out this rendering to the council and future wishes.

By way of information, these are actually called columbariums. You have mausoleums and columbariums.

Columbariums are for The remains of cremations and Muslim for the full body. Yeah, yeah.

And each individual box is the niche. Yeah, we're learning a lot.

A couple more pictures there, but you get the idea. Thank you for your time. Thanks, sir.

We're up to item number 3, discussion, municipal— my goodness, Municipal Building Authority property.

Uh, yeah, so, uh, Mayor and City Council, I think this is— could be mainly kind of a housekeeping item.

But basically, back in 1990 or so, the city created what's known as the Municipal Building Authority of the City of Orem. The purpose of that entity was to acquire and to finance various projects throughout the city. One of those projects was the acquisition of the property for Nielsen's Grove, which you see on the map there, and also the improvements that were made to the create the park, essentially. And so these, these property, this property, as well as other properties, were titled in the name of the Municipal Building Authority, as opposed to the City of Orem. And the reason for that, or at least part of the reason, was that as bonds were issued to fund certain improvements, these, this Nielsen's Grove in particular was part of the collateral, if you will, to secure those bonds. Other projects that were financed through the MBA include actually the police public safety building here, and as well as street lighting projects. So the time is now— well, those bonds were issued in the name of the Municipal Building Authority, and they have now all been paid off at this time. So there's no outstanding bonds Currently, but we find ourselves still with this particular property held in the name of the Municipal Building Authority instead of the City of Orem. So we just recently— this kind of came to a head because Rocky Mountain Power has come to us and asked for an easement through the park property, Nelson's Grove, along Sand Hill Road. And just, you know, it's a little bit awkward when we want to give them an easement That it comes from the Municipal Building Authority as opposed to from the City of Orem. It also creates a little bit of some accounting awkwardness for Brandon because they're paying us some money for that easement. And that money, because the owners of the MBA would have to be made to the MBA, and then Brandon has to account for that.

Anyway, it's a little bit awkward.

So, there's really no reason for this property to still be in the name of the MBA just because. it's no longer securing any bonds, and we don't anticipate that we're going to need it to secure any future bonds. So what we're simply proposing and want to make you aware of our proposal to just reconvey that property from the MDA to City of Warren, just like most of our other properties are titled in the name of the City of Warren. The kind of like our RDA, the City Council is actually the board of the MBA. And city manager, Brent, in this case, is the executive chief executive officer of the MBA.

And as the chief executive officer, I don't want this to go to his head.

But But he's, he's given the authority under the bylaws of the NBA to basically execute various documents and direct affairs of the NBA, and he could execute this, this transaction to convey it from the NBA to the City of Orem. But we didn't want to do that until we had a chance to run that by you and make sure there were no concerns or objections to it.

doing that. So that's basically it.

Why do we have different parcels there?

What's that?

Why is it in different parcels?

I think because that's how it was when we bought the property, which is in different parcels.

And it's probably just remained that way.

Do you want to clean that up in this while we're doing this?

We could at some point. Yeah, there might be some advantage in— it doesn't really have anything to do with the reconvence into the city of Warren. But you know, we could do a subdivision plan amendment or something like that. And just put it all in one.

Do we own the slivers in between?

Which slivers?

Oh, in between the property. Look at that. It looks like there might be some title gaps in there.

And so Yeah, that actually might be a reason to, to do a combined lot because you can clean up those gaps at the same time.

Yeah, if those—

I haven't really looked to see if those gaps truly do exist.

But if they do, that could be something we could look into cleaning up. This doesn't require a meeting?

No.

And in fact, we—

there was another property actually the lower cemetery property that we were just looking at. Up until 2019, that was also held in the name of the Muskego Municipal Building Authority. And, and we conveyed that back to the City of Orem, like I said, in 2019. I don't know why we didn't do this one at the same time, but whatever reason we didn't. So that was, that was executed by the city manager as well without, without it needing MVA.

board of directors.

So is this—

do—

are we addressing the easement at the same time then?

No.

Okay.

Because what I anticipate is we would—

we could—

we would convey this property to the City of Orem, and then we could execute that easement, you know, in the name of the City of Orem to Rocky Mountain Power.

Yeah.

Unless you have any concerns with those.

I, I don't know if I should.

Should I have concerns?

I can't think of any, but you're You're the man.

No, I don't think so. I mean, it's going to be— I don't think it's really going to affect, you know, the really usable areas of the park. Like I said, it's kind of along the edge of Sand Hill Road there. It's going to be underground. They say they need it to improve service to that area.

So, you know, and it gets reconstructed the way it was.

Yeah. So they'll, they'll replace any landscaping that they damage and, and they're paying us, you know, comp— fair compensation for it.

So we don't have any other projects like 6 months from after that that need to be done with the same department, right?

You have 2—

what, say it again?

Well, I'm just thinking of—

we've had situations like over by my house on 4th West where they redid the road 3 different times over the course of 18 months.

So if there's any other things that need to be dug up—

We're not—

we're not aware of anything that's Because everybody has their own timeline. There were another utility is possible.

We're not going to be the first. We're trying not to be. Yeah, we're trying not to. If we do, I'm just taking a few years. That's been expected before, for sure.

Okay, so no objections.

We will, we'll go ahead and move forward.

It actually won't even need vote it down.

So we just wanted to give you a heads up that that's what we thought we ought to do.

Just want to make sure you know. Sounds good. Um, are there any other items that we need to go over?

Mayor?

Yes?

Um, we do have treats here to, um, celebrate And the lady never tells her age. My grandmother used to say that to me all the time.

We're just happy that you're here.

There you go.

It's also true.

Oh, thank you.

Oh, and my treats I picked from Nothing Bundt Cakes. Teresa was able to work that magic.

Yes.

So, and can I add a plug for a women-owned business? I mean, and managed business.

There you go.

And really good cakes.

And really good cakes.

Let's go ahead and—

Bryce Rouse.

We'll go ahead.

Go ahead.

Can I just jump on?

Sure.

It's Bryce's birthday Sunday too, so I just wanted to make sure he gets something.

All these spring birthdays.

Yeah, sure.

Okay, let's go ahead and, and, uh, we'll adjourn this meeting and then you need to volunteer to bust some food and birthday treats.