City Council · 2024-08-20

You have time to help a Purple Wolf fan?

Okay, so I just need you to go in this room and just say some stuff.

Make sure the microphone's working. So I'm gonna test it over here.

So as I'm talking right now, can you hear me?

Okay.

Yes, thank you so much.

Members, I think, are still on their way, but I think we'll go ahead and start, uh, just in the interest of time. We'd like to welcome Alpine School District Board here today, and, uh, got a number of things on the agenda, so we're just pretty much going to follow the agenda unless— is there anything that you had— you want different than this?

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

It's, it's an earthquake, or the precursor of where we're going. Okay, let's— we'll go ahead and start. Uh, item 2.1 on our presentation is a presentation, uh, about Sharon Elementary Partnership. And this is Jenneken Jones, who's over our strategy and innovation team.

Hey, y'all, is this the right remote switch, or can we do it back there?

Okay, there we go.

Perfect. Hey, well, thank you. I am excited to be here today and talk and have a discussion with all of you about Sharon Elementary. As the city and the school district, we've had some preliminary conversations about this, and if there's a way we can better use the building and the property for our community benefit in a way that mutually benefits the city, the school district, and our residents. So that's really what we see. We see that there's a lot of things that we can do to make this a mutually beneficial path forward and better use that building and property for our community benefit. And this consists of city programs, partner programs, and then it will— this will lead to continued building maintenance, daily traffic that will support and enhance the property. So first, I'll just talk about some of the building uses we have envisioned. So first is using it for additional recreational Programming opportunities. So similar to what we've done in Hillcrest, we were able to go to the building yesterday, and we think that there are minimal things that we really need to do to make it work out well for recreation programming in the gym, using the gym for basketball, volleyball, floorball recreation. We also think that we could potentially hold a lot of community events there— fairs, markets— use both the inside and outside of the building potentially to bring more people and use that property. positive, productive ways. We've also looked at childcare programming with our own employees. We've seen a huge need for additional childcare opportunities in the community, and we think that this could be a way that we could be able to provide that potentially through the city. We would— if this was chosen to go forward with this path, we'd work with the health department to prepare the building and rooms to code and the things that we'd need. We also have a few partner organizations we'd like to potentially involve in this discussion. So first off, I don't know if any of you in Elkhart have heard of the My Hometown Initiative.

Of course.

Great. So they're starting in Orem in the Geneva Heights community. It's officially launching this fall. Yeah, this Saturday we have the kickoff party, and then they'll open up their first community resource center at an LDS church at the beginning of September. In our discussions with then they are very interested in potentially using a more neutral ground for those community resource type classes to make it more attractive to people to come and participate in the classes. So we could potentially work with them and hope to, to be able to use some of the building.

Thinking this would, uh, make it easier for people of other faiths or no faith to come, right?

Yes. Yeah. And it's in a— in the neighborhood that has the Catholic Church. It's, it's a high-needs neighborhood. It's one that we've talked about expanding my hometown to next.

So it would Do you see that supplanting what's happening in Geneva or being an addition?

An addition, yeah. So other cities with my hometown, they typically will open up a community or 2 and then they may add more as it goes on. So it would be an addition too, and it would just further enhance that service for the community. So, uh, yeah, providing free classes for the community. In a similar note, partnering with United Way to bring some of their classes to the community. They also work with my hometown. They're going to have some classes at the Geneva Heights Community Resource Center, but is there a way we can also support them and get them more involved in our community? And again, to bring it to those people that need it most and make it more accessible to them.

What's in the building now?

Space.

Is it empty?

Pianos, desks are all out?

There may be a few things left over.

There was— yeah, there was a fair amount of furniture when we toured.

1950 vintage.

Okay. Obviously, as we pursue down this path, there would have to be a lot of logistics we have to determine. So if you have any input or feedback on some of these items, we'd be totally open to it. Have to nail down what would the approval process and timeline look like for this partnership between the city and the district. In our preliminary discussions, we've talked about potentially doing an interlocal agreement. We're open to that, potentially a lease. What would the length of that be? Timeline. What type of capital preparations will be needed? As I said, we went yesterday. We feel like the building's in really pretty decent condition and it wouldn't need a lot. We need to add some false walls. We don't think we'd need to use the entire building. And we could work with the district if there's things you still are needing to do in the building. We can make that happen easily as well. Working with those partner organizations to nail down exactly what times they would need the building, how much. of the building they would need to just finalize those plans. And again, other operational things we'd have to determine is the insurance, assuming that would be staying with the district, the cost share for some of these items, utilities, building preparations, equipment upgrades, art costs, signage, lighting, security systems. You know, some of these things are already in place, so we would want to find Best path forward for the city and the district, knowing that you do cover a lot of those costs already. Is there a way we can make that work? The city could take over some of that maintenance and potentially reduce the cost that Alpine is spending currently. On a similar note, the maintenance is kind of custodial. Our facilities team went over and they didn't have major concerns about it, but we would have to figure that out as well, as well as the parks. adding the mowing and the exterior maintenance as well. Security elements, we did note that there are cameras inside and outside the building, so determining whether we're using those same ones, supplanting them, whatever, what we'd like to do there, if there's additional lighting that would need to be added. As far as the city side, there's a few people that would be the main points of contact. So Bryce would be the main point on the recreation programming and childcare and facility scheduling as needed. I'm working with the partner organizations, My Hometown and United Way, our parks team for the maintenance facilities, ironworkmen for custodial, and then Alpine, whoever is designated for, for donations for Alpine's needs there. We, um, feel that this would be a big benefit to the community. It would increase the traffic, make it safe, make it a community feel. It would be something that I feel like is very needed in this area and We've had a lot of requests for people already in the Sharon Park neighborhood wondering about the My Hometown in particular, and like, how can we get this in our neighborhood? And so that's one of the biggest benefits. But we also see city events and recreation programming and such as additional benefits as well. So with that, I'm open to any questions, feedback.

Would we be able to get your presentation?

Sure.

To our emails.

Yeah, one of the things that's driving this is we've really put an emphasis on volunteering and community events last few years. And so with that in mind, the demand is there. We got more people want to be involved in all kinds of things. So more facilities we have to work with, the more we can make that happen. Just on a staff level, we've appreciated the conversations as we continue to try to refine and, and have meet the problems of this idea and just hope to continue to work with you to refine it and make sure that it's a win-win all around. What, what, what are your thoughts as far as—

You know, last time you talked about this, I had a conversation with Brent. I said the district is open to that opportunity. I think our concern was not accruing significant additional expense as a result of the use of that. And so we talked about a minimal lease of that on an annual basis, and the city assuming all the responsibilities for the facility. But last time we met with the board and discussed this, there was no interest in making money off of it, but no interest in losing money off of it either.

Yeah, to say we need to be somewhat revenue neutral on that. Just kind of maintain the status quo, but yeah, it's useful. cost.

Yeah.

And we're not averse to the city partnering with us in use of that.

So I don't mean to step on what Brent— we want a long enough lease, not forever, but long enough that we could put it to use. So yeah, more than a year or 2, less than 20, right? Something that would allow us to make use of it.

And I think the board would commit to a period of time, but with renewable options in the event that they need to repurpose that. Yeah. For other uses.

You have a— have you guys thought about it much, or is this the first you really— I guess I'm just trying to understand how far along the process you are.

I think the communication we've had is the interest by the city, and our reciprocating, say, yes, we're interested in engaging in that. I think there was a tour of the facility that was arranged, and the ball is in your court now to say, okay, what are you willing to bring back to us? We'll say, this is our plan for it. We would need to work out that interlocal agreement and the specification of that, and then we take that back to the board to make sure they're in agreement with that. We're open to ongoing communication with the council.

So is my colleague the communications— have we designated the communication?

He arranged with them to visit because Eric was out. We'll be working for the operations team and capital team to bring that back.

We have any, any other feedback from council?

I just think it's awesome that we're able to have these discussions and potentially work toward a solution, because I've met a lot of people in the city, and especially where the needs are the highest, and this could be a great solution to those families down in the community. So thanks for your openness to the idea.

Yeah, and I've been, um, kind of the council liaison for the My Hometown initiative, and it is amazing. And I really believe that this, um, non-denominational potential location, you know, we don't even know that My Hometown wants this location or not, but I mean, at least this option being out there, um, I agree with this, this area of forum benefit greatly from that.

And we have been really focused too on all the decisions we're, we're making. that there are areas of the city that need more help than others, so we've been focusing on those areas to try to bring those up. This would fit right in with that.

Yeah, happy to continue that.

I, I'll just note that, um, Orem has a number of Title I schools, and as you may have heard, um, our funding for Title I funds has been greatly decreased Like, I don't know, like 6 years. And we, this current year, will be augmenting that too so that it's not so much of a cliff, um, for our schools here in Overland, but throughout the district, our Title I schools. But, um, I— if this is an indication of things to come, I think our community is going to have to step up. In an aggressive way to help our multi-language learners and help them through whatever the learning humps that occur when they're new arrivals. So I'm excited for the potential here.

Well, one of the exciting things about my hometown that I wasn't aware that they were going to be offering is English as a as a— or Spanish as a first language, second language. So not only will they be teaching people how to speak English, but they'll also be teaching those of us who don't speak Spanish to kind of help us along in the process of trying to be able to speak another language and be a little more involved and a little more able to communicate.

It's cool. Yeah, a couple of our main focuses really have been connection and communication. So that's how we build communities, is through that connection and communication. And we're really excited about this opportunity.

Well, let us know if, if our school communications can be helpful. And I know that we received word as a board about this, my hometown, but if we can be a vehicle for communicating out That would be— I think it's great.

That's awesome.

Just clarification, just because we'd be curious, but as far as with the Title I funding being cut back, what's the driver for that? Is it less money from the federal government, or is it— has anything changed on our side that we have less Title I people?

It's all federal funding, and they take a scoop, if you will, of a demographic area to determine the number of individuals who qualify. And that sampling was significantly different than it had been in the past, which changes the funding. We lost about 75% of the funding without notification that was coming.

But is that because they changed their rules, or—

No, it was just the sampling that they happened to take to determine the level of qualification, and we appealed that. It has not returned favorably for us. We're hoping that that was an aberration, that they will do a sampling in the future that better reflects the demographics of the area.

So is that because of a district? Because it was a school sampling, like a certain percentage in a school. Are they doing it on the district level now, or—

To allocate the funding, it is based upon the number of students that qualify in the school. To generate the district funding, it's a different sample.

So did they bump up their percentage in the school?

Just took sampling from a different area.

On the sampling too, we were close. We didn't know we were, but there's the 5% threshold that we were really close, just barely above. And with this new survey, it was barely below, and that's where there's kind of this big cliff change in that.

So I know in my neighborhood, you know, years ago when they were trying to get Windsor to be a Title I, they actually sent people out into the neighborhoods to fill out applications. Do you still do that kind of thing? Can we actually— but you're not— you're actually proving it's just people haven't certified. I know they kind of do it a little differently now, but yeah, we still communicate out to those who— can you appeal?

I guess.

But that wasn't the part that drove the federal piece. Federal piece is a sampling of, but not the percent free reduced lunch at every school.

That's unfortunate.

Yeah, we've yelled, we've screamed, we've sent feedback.

We'll continue to monitor that.

Thank you.

Does that clarify?

Yes, yes. I was just curious what— yeah, it sounds like it was just arbitrarily hit.

Good fail.

I'm returning.

What is the city timeline on the use of sharing? Like, when would you like to have that available and up and running?

I think one of our very next steps would be to have our legal draft up a proposed interlocal agreement that may speak to some of these different terms and timelines. submit that to, I guess, the district. And then just refine from there and see if we can get this to a finalized state. I think on the city uses, we could do it really quite quickly in terms of incorporating my hometown in we're a little bit dependent on their timeline as they can get together their volunteer directors and that sort of thing. I would, I would anticipate it would be fairly quick though, because every other facility that we've opened up on this type of premises instantly full. So, so yeah, when I say a little bit of time, months, not a year from now. Yeah, right.

So current, I think the only real current use, and Chief, you could speak to this, is a lot of, uh, our law enforcement use that for SWAT training and other— yeah, not only from your agency but also other agencies as well.

Chief, do you see that training working within the context of changing the nature of it?

I would say once it's repurposed, probably not, but that's all. Okay, so we use several.

I think it would be a little unsettling for those.

Yeah, right.

Daycare and whatnot.

There would be additional language that's learned.

Hustle is not how they—

Cookies and cops.

Bryce, my hometown thing, probably Brycewood, Hillcrest, maybe in soccer.

proof of concept? How long do you think it would take for us to begin some of the recreation programs?

Yeah, I look back to the first year of Hillcrest prior to the major capital changes and all that. And it was a relatively inexpensive process. It was designed to be low impact on the physical building itself. So I think it was a really smooth process. And within a couple of months, Pete helped us to, you know, update some signage and direction and wayfinding and know, we obviously changed where the bathroom would be located and all that. We had a couple of minor repairs to, uh, the— what ended up being the one restroom available to the people there. And then, uh, Jenica referred to the false walls, uh, and just so we could sort of stop the labyrinth of the school and just straight-line shots. So, um, I think it's something that's relatively, uh, accessible and could be done, uh, pretty quick. Um, the devil is in the details, so we want to make sure that everyone's on board with what the concept would be. But I think it'd be non-intrusive to the site and, uh, quickly made available for, uh, both the city and our partner programs.

Okay, cover it. Any other comments, questions? Thank you, Janica. If we could just, um, quickly go around the room and state your name and who you're with, um, it might help start the conversation we're going. We'll do it around the table and we'll also do it back here.

Who likes to start right there?

I'm Joy Lynn Lincoln. I'm on the Alpine School Board and I represent Saratoga Springs and West Lehigh.

Stacy Beaman, Alpine School Board, Lehigh and American Fork.

Ada Wilson, West Orme and Bittern.

Superintendent, and we excuse a couple of our board members who had other—

Jason Sundberg, business administrator.

Scott Hackam, Alpena School Board, represent East Warren.

Brandon Bior, State Manager. Dave Young, Mayor.

Tom McDonald, City Council.

Jen Gale, City Council.

Jeff Lamson, City Council.

Lenny Millett, City Council.

David Spencer, City Council.

Mark Sanderson, Law Enforcement Chief.

Connie Clark, Assistant City Manager.

Bryce, uh, Bryce Merrill, Recreation Library for Warren City.

Josh Adams, Chief. Steve Earl, City Attorney.

John Norton, Transportation. Chris, Director.

Gary McGinn, uh, Orange City Legal and Development Services.

Brandon Wilson, Finance.

Jennifer Jones, Strategy and Innovation. Kristen Gittin, Recorder.

Steve Wolf, Communication. All right, thank you everyone for that. Just hopefully that'll help facilitate if you have specific questions for anyone here, just about who, who's in the room. We'll go to item 2.2. This is our water tank, uh, construction, uh, one by Orm Elementary. Ryan, were you going to lead that?

Yes, I will be leading that.

Thank you.

So we'll just start off a little video. This is the water Sorry, I thought I turned the sound off. We don't need the sound. I was going to talk over it. This is located across from Arm Elementary, directly to the south on 400 South and at the intersection with 4th West. Tank sits a little bit to the west of that intersection, but we have construction going on in that whole entire area. This tank's about 320 feet in diameter, 21 feet in height. Inside, it's about 18 feet tall. The good news is we're a lot further along than that video showed, but it gives you an aerial photo. This is just an image of the landscaping. So the top of the screen, you can see my mouse. This is 4th South up here, 4th West right here, and then Orem Elementary is across the street. So when the tank is backfilled, which is going to be the next step— right now they're starting to They're finishing cleaning it, checking for cracks, and then they will fill it with water at 4 feet a day, leak test it, see if it leaks. Hopefully it doesn't. Then they'll start backfilling around it, and then once it's backfilled, they'll start building the park on top, which is kind of a leisure park with the trail, some playground equipment in the corners, and we're putting a cabin up here that's from State Street that we'll be restoring. Over here on this little wing, this will be a pump station, and we have a well that's already been drilled at this location, but we need to build the well house around it. In Forest South, there's been countless— I can't even remember how many pipelines installed. So the road's been closed for well over a year now. The tank itself, this portion of the project, right now our goal is June 15th, 2025 for completion. This is what the tank looks like on the inside. And then the well and pump station are going out to bid here soon. They will likely be completed after this phase of the tank is done. All the pipework in the road is completed at this time, and they're starting to restore the asphalt and sidewalk. And our goal is to have westbound on 4 South opened This fall, hoping September, but I was told to say fall just in case we run into an issue. But I already told September. Anyways, with that, the south parking lot of Orem Elementary would open at the same time, which I know Principal Rock's been pretty excited about with his staff. Just to give you an idea, I've got a couple other pictures here. Show the inside of the tank, but some of those utility lines that were put in. Just to give you an idea of the size of those, that's a water main that comes out of the tank and feeds one of our zones. So it's a good picture. This is Lane, our capital projects manager. He would normally be here giving this report, but he had a conflict tonight. But gives you a good scale as to how big that pipe is and then how deep we were. That pipe was, I think, 16 feet in the ground. Here you can see Arm Elementary off to the side. This is an irrigation ditch that We're barely holding in place. So just by way of report, Lane was able to take the admin staff from Orm Elementary on a tour last week, I think it was, and Principal Rock, and a number of them were able to go down in the tank and they, I think, really enjoyed it. I think Principal Rock replied to Lane with, that was awesome, an email or something. He really appreciated it. And we just appreciate the patience and collaboration the school districts have with us being a next-door neighbor. And Principal Rock has been phenomenal to work with, and he and Lane have a great relationship, and they've been able to kind of work all those little issues that come up along the way with walking to school and things like that. So, uh, that's our update. Any questions? Oh, it is 10 million gallons of water.

So it's a lot longer.

We just appreciate you're working so closely with our school administration. That's just phenomenal. It's been a challenge. I live very close, and there are some days I could get through that intersection, and some days I can't. But I can tell that you're trying to leave open what you can, you know, around projects.

Yeah, you're welcome. Oh, really quick, I forgot.

I knew there was something I forgot.

Try this.

This is what that pump station will look like. It's, it's not a small building by any means. And then this is what the well house would look like. We're kind of trying to go for a farm look with our heritage park, so forgot I had those on there. Those are our big projects left to go here, so Thank you, Ryan.

As far as, uh, just where this is right across the school, can you also talk a little bit to the park itself and what's going to be laid out there?

Yeah, it— so as of right now, people can walk on top of the tank, but it's mostly going to be rock with a few shrubs. If you see it from an airplane, it'll look like a peach with a— with a hanging off a branch with a leaf. We hope that's how it turns out. That's how they designed it. So if you're in an airplane, it'll look really cool, or from a drone. It'll have a nice walking path all the way around it. It'll also have— over time, we'll be installing kind of monuments to talk about heritage of Orem and kind of encouraging people to walk the path to learn about Orem and then tell them where they can go to actually see those things.

So we're trying to tie together little alignments around the path with areas in the city and just tie it all together so you can go walk that path and get an idea of the entire heritage forum. You can also figure out where to go to see it around the city. So that'll be really cool. And from a school standpoint, it's going to be pretty educational.

Yeah, it'll be called Heritage Park, and it's more of a leisure park, not a go recreate or anything, but just go for a nice walk and enjoy your the nice landscaping, little playground with your kids for stroller walk-ons.

That cover it?

Yeah.

All right. Any, any, uh, one— and it will— I don't know if you said this or not— it will increase Lawrence's water supply by about a third. So it's a pretty significant upgrade. Um, any other questions?

Where does that water come from? I've heard we have wells. Is that right?

So we just, we just Like a 1,000-foot well over there, or 900-something feet, I think.

900 and somewhere in there. Our public works director is better versed in our water supply back in the corner there.

Yeah, it's just under 1,000 feet.

And we've got a number of wells all around the worm, but this is the abandoned well. This will be a really robust well, and this well will feed that 10 million gallon tank.

Last week we could have almost filled that tank.

We could have diverted that water and skate parks.

Skate parks.

We saw that one, right?

Okay, thank you, Ryan. Uh, next up we've got item 2.3, and this is a discussion on future development growth. Do you want to introduce that? I think this was intended to perhaps get some information from some of the city and from you guys, and just looking ahead of what we're each— what are the data points we're looking at as we try to project growth development in the future?

Can I take that for you, please? Okay, so the biggest thing— and I met with Ada and Sarah since this impacts our area, and we just wanted— I kind of wish the other 3 members of your board would have been here because they're going to vote on this. But this is really about, um, what we call the old Word Perfect campus, Canyon Park. I don't know if you're familiar with that up there.

Yes.

But we have a development coming before us. This is right very close to Orchard Elementary where you have the plan to do the DLI magnet school. We have a 150-home development plan that went to our Planning Commission last week. We'll come before the City Council next week.

Um, We're—

I'm not sure that we anticipate it will end up being 150 homes. We'll have to see on that. But the minimum with the, um, kind of what you would call the underlying zoning would be 100 homes, 98 to 100 on quarter-acre lots. So we feel like that's going to be pretty impactful for that area with the understanding, and I'm kind of jumping, I noticed DLI Magnets on the different agenda items. But, um, the, the— and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but the information I've received is that the DLI Magnet School will not allow— it's, it's just for children who are in the DLI program coming from other areas. And so these homes, this, this surrounding neighborhoods will not have that as an option for a neighborhood school, which I see kind of as problematic. I understand planning that without knowing about this. The other thing is this, this Canyon Park, there are 2 buildings they're taking out to— the Mueller Group is taking out to put these to transition or change into residential housing. I believe there's another little area that's included in this PD zone. I mean, you never know, but there have been— there is a potential for another building to come out up a little further north. So I guess that's something we wanted to make you aware of, and that would be happening within the next year or 2. This for sure, this is the, I think, the 3rd time they're really anxious and really trying to transition this. from commercial to residential, um, which would have a big impact on that program that I believe you're beginning to initiate. I talked to Ada and Sarah about it, let them understand our concerns. Um, I don't know, Dave, you want to speak to the other couple ones going on in Orem?

Um, I mean, just in the same area, we have, um, another 6 coming in on 4th East, another 14-acre strat property, and then On 69 North, we have Giller property, which we're not sure how many homes there's gonna be.

So yeah, from probably 6 to 12, and that does impact Windsor and Orchard.

So we have development times.

Yeah, you're saying 6 homes, 14 homes, 6 homes, 6 homes, 14 homes, 100 homes.

This one's on—

yeah, right now this is 150.

And if we change the zone, that PD zone, really the whole thing could be housing eventually.

So you could have another— how many more on that other—

they've got another 20 acres, so it could be another 100 homes.

This is on 23 acres. This is on 23 acres, and they've got another 20 acres that could transition.

When is the anticipated build out of that?

Well, it has to come. I don't know, Mayor, how are you gonna answer that question?

Yeah, I know it's gotta make it through the city council first. It's all in negotiations right now. But the essence, I think the takeaway for you guys would be that there's a really good chance there's gonna be some significant development over on that side of town.

There's some very motivated sellers and very motivated developers. Maybe we'll put it that way.

And what's the size? It's quarter acre for the— quarter acre for the homes would be—

I don't know, what have they been doing?

The ones by Timpanogos High School, those are the same zoning.

Um, just regular single-family homes.

What are they, 3,000 square foot? 3,500?

Yeah, 15 to 15 maybe.

Do we know what the price point would be for those?

And really, I mean, this is my personal opinion. My opinion is, is these Yeah.

We don't—

we're almost past the starter home model in Orem. What we, what we are seeing a demand for is the second home. So maybe they go out to Eagle Mountain, Saratoga, build their equity, and then come back to where they want to live in Orem. They're looking for a place to build and live in Orem. So they bring back where Jen was just commenting, the developer behind Harmon's Is what happened with that, you know, if they brought back kids, families in that type of housing product.

Do we have any way of collecting data about that besides our school enrollments?

I don't know.

I actually asked to see if there's—

where people are moving from. Jason knows all the questions to ask.

Oh, I don't know who would do that. The realtors? I don't know.

I think as it is approved, we would look at the square footage and size of the lot and then use our algorithms to determine kind of what we would anticipate number of students per household.

Because you do have a model for high-density apartments, right? Isn't it like 1 child per 25 or something? What's your—

variables in.

I think our main message with this is just that something's happening over there, just to be aware of it as far as whatever you're doing with schools.

And just another little side note, I mean, I brought these 2 notices. These are also coming before our Planning Commission. This is, um, back behind Krispy Kreme. If you go back on that street behind Krispy Kreme, you'll see all those townhomes and condos. Right behind there is Peterson property. We've had a couple of developers bring us developments with increased density. The neighbors did not want it, so the developer is now doing 3rd and 1/4 acre lots back there, which, like I say, this— it's because it's in a high— it's a high demand for Orem. People want to move back to Orem. I mean, if I can, you know, brag for a minute, we are— our taxes are low. Our utility costs are low. You know, we just have a lot to offer, and we just like to attract families as, as we kind of in a population through the population cycle.

Thank you. Any other thoughts on future development growth?

I'm, I'm curious about Canyon Park.

It's been—

there have been several attempts to build there, and for various reasons, they haven't worked out. Do you have a likelihood that this particular developer will be able to work with the city in such a way that it can move forward? Are there any roadblocks that we would see here that would not make that happen?

Yeah, I mean, nothing's ever done until it's done, right? But what we can tell you is, is the demand for office is down. And so that's in Canyon Park as well as other office developments. And, um, so they want to do something, uh, we'd like to do something, we just need to agree on what that is. My anticipation is that we're going to see some development over there.

You, you were the deciders, right?

So yeah, just Yeah, it's all negotiation. So, but I, I think for planning purpose for the school district, I would put that in the back of your mind that there's a really good chance something's going to happen over there. Something's—

my guess is you're not too concerned on the 4 to 6 and 8 pieces, but this 100+ is a concern you need to plan around.

So, In terms of enrollment? Yes. Anything else on that topic?

I mean, I just—

the only other data point I would share is, as you know, sessions ago, the state opened up single-family home residents' ability to add accessory dwelling units. I don't know if you include some type of ratio or, or, or not.

You're talking about tiny homes?

No, like apartments, especially in the new construction. So you could have 2 families in each of them.

The state mandated that. That's why it's a much bigger deal than it used to be.

On, on this home size accessory dwellings, do you think that you're seeing an increase currently? You've already seen an increase We expect to see a greater increase.

I would say we've definitely seen an increase, but in order to— I'd have to defer to Ryan in terms of if we can provide exact numbers on what it's been over the last couple years.

Yeah, I'd pull that report up, but I just got a new computer and I can't connect to our server, so I apologize. I'd say we're around 35 this year so far, and usually see anywhere from around 50 a year per take.

So, yeah, as far as new, it's a pretty consistent number.

Obviously, affordability being where it is, people are interested in doing this big time. Yeah, I can give that data though, I just can't do it right now.

Do you have any idea what the makeup is of the Is it families? Is it individuals? Is it a school age program? Do you have any idea?

Uh, no, we, we're not privy to that.

We just see the permit and the structure itself.

So yeah, we can tell you after it happens.

Okay, anything else on that topic?

I think we should close up on that. Um, And also, you know, when, when it does happen, we— they do get approval, just let us know. It will be in the paper or whatever, but let us know so we can factor that into our discussions.

And this is along the same topic. This is not scientific, this is just anecdotal, but I've lived in my house in Orem for 34 years, and when we moved in, um, we had 140 kids in our primary. And then over time, we saw that go down to about 50. And over the last 3 years, we've seen it go from like 50 back up to 80. So there's been a reversal happening just in the last few years. Whatever's driving that, I don't know if that's people getting old, selling their houses, new families coming in, but that's what we're experiencing in that little sample of Wentworth. And I've talked to other people who are saying the same thing.

So, that's definitely my neighborhood too. We built— we had like 50 homes we built at the same time, like '90, '91, '92, you know, during all that. And kind of only here, like, here's my numbers: 110, got down to 38, now we're up to 72. And, you know, like I always laugh and say, I'm one of those empty nesters now that's contributing to a home being taken out, you know.

But yeah, you know, I could move on.

I'm, I'm gonna— I want a Rambler soon.

We're looking—

I mean, you know, so it's, it hap— it's a population, it's a cycle.

With your permission, maybe this would be the time to review the OMC fact sheet with each of our schools and the attendance at each of our schools. And, um, this is last year. Jason has gotten the updated numbers. We did not update this because we don't have Usually wait till after October 1st.

Each high school just has 3 grades. We don't do 9th grade in high school, right? And the junior highs have 3 too, 7, 8, 9.

Thank you. But what, what Jason can share with you is that the elementary schools, all of them except 3, have been kind of enrolled in this year over last year. And those are the hard numbers we had as of like first day of school. So Jason, can you share that with them? Yeah, is, is that appropriate?

Sure.

Do you guys want nothing?

So the totals there, just looking at the elementary— so the secondary schools, the high school and the junior highs, especially Mountain View, Lake Ridge, and Orm Junior, a lot of theirs is driven by growth in Vineyard. So there is some growth there. Vineyard feeds both Lake Ridge and Orm Junior and then Mountain View. So just looking at the elementaries, So, summing up the total of these, these are from around October 1st of last year. So the total is about 6,900 elementary students in those 12 schools. For the start, first day of school, it's about 6,750. So down about 150 students from last October to the start of this year. So down about 2.25% in all the schools. If we look back, you know, 5 or 6 years ago, quite significantly higher also. Um, example, like at Foothill, when my kids started there 11 years ago, there was 750 students. Now 479. Um, some others too, like Bonneville. Bonneville just 6 or 7 years ago was in the 800s. Northridge down to 385 now. It shows 392 there. Was up 600 or 700 also. So there's been some that have been Quite the decline. Others that have been pretty stable, or like Cascade at 851, staying steady, up, up a little bit this year to 875. That's with the combination of Cascade and Sharon. And then Centennial, when it first opened with the combination of Hillcrest and Sierra Park, was around 850. Now they're at 689 this year.

What were your high schools built to, to house? When I went to Orem High, and it was the old Orem High, which has since been— there were over 2,000 kids there. What is the new Orem High, bigger or smaller than the old one?

It's a lot smaller. So Orem High is the smallest square footage of the 3. It probably could comfortably, without any satellite units, fit about 1,500. Okay, so they're at 1,255 right now. Mountain View had—

when I went to Mountain View, there was a satellite there, 16-class satellite.

My first year there, I think there was 2,500 students, and then Tippin Oaks opened the next year, and then they were around 2,000, 1,800 for a while. Now it's, it's grown back. It was just a few years ago around 1,200 or 1,300. Now it's about 1,600.

And that's largely growth in Vineyard though. Vineyard growth, you're right. Is that Mountain View you're talking about?

Mountain View, yeah. Most of that, all that growth is coming Vineyard, Timpanogos.

Um, do they get any Vineyard kids at Timpanogos?

None of Timpanogos is boundary into Vineyard.

Okay, so that all goes to Mountain View.

Thank you. Yeah, so they may have some out of area too. And, and Timpanogos could hold— I mean, both Timpanogos and Mountain View, just in the building themselves, probably built for about 1,800, 1,900, with satellites, classroom, you know, uh, trailers that could be in below 2,000.

And you probably get temp from Linden too, don't you?

Some— A lot of other areas from Linden, yeah. And then the junior highs, uh, they've all been— Candy, Lake Ridge, Orm Jr.— have all in their time been around 1,400, probably 1,400, 1,500 at their max, um, with some, with some trailers and other things. But they're, they're all probably built— Orm Jr.'s a little bit smaller, but they're all Probably holds about 5,300.

The majority of that vineyard population growth we see in Orm Jr., they're up, uh, 155 over last year.

Yeah, so they're at what now instead of the 895?

They're—

well, for which one? Orm Jr., I talked about 1,049.

Okay, yeah, that's quite a bit.

Yeah, and Lakebridge at 1,387, but Canyon View down To 1068. So you can see that Vineyard's driving those 2, where the aging of Forum is still being felt in the community.

Is Forum Junior in decent shape? I've heard all kinds of different things. My kids don't like Forum Junior, but is it acceptable shape?

Part of it has been rebuilt, part of it needs to be rebuilt. So I would say it's, it's, it needs some attention.

Brand new gym area and then common, common areas near the entry and classroom.

Both lanes are original.

In terms of the shape of buildings, I asked one of our maintenance heads about that and he said our job is to make this school safe and to make it, um, usable. And so they take care of problems. So none of our schools are unsafe, but they're aging. And so we do worry about the big earthquake, which I'm sure you worry about too.

That's why you're rebuilding your school.

We all have that in the back of our mind.

Can I just acknowledge that as we're talking about these numbers, I'm sure that Stacy and Joy Lynn are just crazy because those high schools out west are maxed out.

I was at Cedar Valley just a couple hours ago, and they're at 3,400 high school.

Cedar Valley. Cedar Valley.

That's, uh, that's Nagle Mountain. But they do have 9th graders, and when we open the new junior high next year, then those 9th graders will leave. But our schools are very small compared to out west.

Is Sharon the only vacant school within the Orem boundaries?

Yes.

Okay.

Geneva's gone.

Oh, yeah, it's not a vacant school, it's a vacant lot.

Yeah, thank you.

That's right, you've knocked that down.

What's your Parkside enrollment?

And Parkside is, is down to 550 from 567, so it's listed here down to 550.

And how about Orchard?

Orchard is down to 588.

Could you just email us an update with those numbers?

Okay, I know we're all trying to take notes, but what's Windsor?

I heard Windsor's up to 750.

Oh, uh, 513.

I think we will get—

are you sure? I just talked to the principal last week. That was not the number I got.

Maybe the first day it felt like that.

Okay, these are actuals.

Yeah, these are student counts from the first week. We will do a 10-day draw.

Are you counting preschool?

Preschool are not included.

Or SPED? Like Orchard has kids taking space, special ed kids, but you're not counting them?

It's special ed.

Oh, you are counting preschool?

Okay, so you count everything but you don't count preschool.

So after 10 days, those students that have not shown up for those 10 days will be dropped, and then we'll have a more accurate count. And then the count that we report to the state will be the October 1st count, and that will be what—

And those numbers are great, Superintendent.

October 1st are your—

the final numbers.

We're happy to take And that's when this sheet will be updated. We update it every November, and so we'll put October 1st numbers, and our next meeting will bring the updated.

Thank you.

And we can show even where we can show a change to what was last year and this year to be able to show the delta.

Just so you're aware that these numbers, the actuals, are available in board documents. It's always the last page on the board documents every other meeting that we hold, so the board gets briefed on this once a month.

Just, just one other thing that I think is interesting to us as educators, and, and you probably are seeing it as the city as well, that we're finding that the school year in a lot of other countries is January to December, especially in South America. So we often get an influx of new students in January. And then of course we test them in English in March and they're barely Kids making their way around. But you probably see it as a city as well, that you see a lot of movements in January. And that's the reason, is because that's the way the school year balances in other countries. So we have these numbers now, but it's all kind of interesting to also take a pulse of that in January. Because the school might have, you know, 2 or 3 or 13 or 15 kids coming in who speak no English. In the middle of January. So we see that as well. That's another part of the picture.

Everybody picked up.

Yeah.

So do you guys have data on like how many kids are in charter school, homeschool, and private school? So what are those numbers? Because I would assume our— everybody said our population is going down.

Kids who were not—

I guarantee they're going to be charter schools, homeschool, or private school.

So, Jay, Jay, the Boston charter schools—

we have in our book, we in our report, we have all the charter schools enrollment for the year. They're staying pretty stable.

It's not state of charter program.

And, and with the voucher program, we haven't seen an increase or decrease.

They're staying about steady.

And with the vouchers, did that make—

was that potentially a slight decline like the rest of the They're following rituals.

If we wanted to say, you know, school-specific, could you give us that data?

School-specific?

Exactly.

So Northridge Elementary, these kids are in public school, these, these are charters, and these are home.

We have addresses for ours.

If we—

and I mean, we don't want address because that would be violation, but do you have like— could we get numbers?

We don't know our charter school students.

They just have their—

you just know that, uh, Tipanogos Academy has—

we don't know where they're—

what city they're living in.

Yeah, we're not privy to that. All we know is the number of their—

does anybody track that?

It's in our enrollment report.

How about homeschool?

Do you know how charter schools track?

Um, do I know how charter schools— yeah, you could go to a charter school and they could pull up counts for their enrollment.

They won't give you—

oh, but they could.

So they might put it on a map for us and then we can put it in the—

we're just trying to figure out in Orem what public school, charter school, Alpine School— is there a way to do that? You guys have information?

So we have the total enrollment for all the charter schools that are in the district. So some are in Lyndon, some are in Biddeford, some are in Orem. So we have those totals, but it doesn't— we don't have where they reside.

How about, how about homeschool? So nobody really tracks homeschool?

They're still parents, but they're— so we can do an exemption later. We keep track of that.

I'm, I'm just curious.

Both Noah Webster and, um, Sophia Novas, which are In your area or close to, their enrollment was slightly down last year, so they aren't grabbing a ton more students. They're just steady over the years, slight decrease.

And how far out do you guys do population cycles?

Are you talking about charter schools or—

I'm talking about the general School population projections. Yeah, projections, 5 years.

All of that is available online. If you look in the Albany School District line, if you look under historical reports or the annual reports, Jason has got a report, it's just population, and he's got all those projections from how many years back.

And you work with MAG on those projections?

to use in the future. Yeah, it's all available online.

I'm happy to leave my hard copy if you would like to have a fun night with that.

That's why I'm asking you instead of going online.

The increase in charter school enrollment last year from the year before in the district was 900 students, and those students are all accounted for in Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs. So it's the same trend you were seeing.

Do you—

and what if you're going back to homeschool? Is there anybody that keeps track of homeschool as far as what percentage of parents or homes would be homeschooled?

Do the co-ops have to report through that data?

I mean, I guess it's just a guess as far as 5% or 10%.

School family, the state of Utah has to file an affidavit with their district, um, but not all homeschool School students in the state of Utah are traditional homeschool students. Lots of them will do a hybrid with a district or a charter school where their involvement will show up.

And that's what I'm talking about is the hybrids.

And those, I don't— I mean, you can kind of watch where they've been. They were in Tooele District a couple years ago, and then enrollment did a huge decline. Or Provo did the same thing a few years previous to that. But Where the students are located, you would have to do a request into that district, I would guess.

I'm just trying to figure out where they fit in the mix of who goes where.

I think looking at the data that we have, you could safely draw the conclusion that in Orem, that, um, the same percentage of students are attending charter schools as have been. It's been steady over the years, so we're not seeing any Increase, which is causing a decrease in output.

Right.

And that's just in the book.

When we've looked at it before, I think the percent of homeschool and charter school students in Orem matches the district. So there's not a higher percentage of homeschool or charter school, private school in one area. Pretty similar all around.

Typically, if you see a charter school open, you'll see a corresponding decline in the public school population.

But in Warren, you see a decline in both.

So they're not— More students here. Fewer students here, and both the charter schools and public schools are seeing that decline. We'll open a charter school in another area, and it will affect the enrollment projections based upon that anticipated charter school. Because typically they'll draw from a neighborhood area, larger.

So with the—

you don't see a whole lot of warm students going out to Eagle Mountain to be part of a charter school.

So with the vouchers, did, uh, did you have a decline?

We, we've got a decline in our elementary enrollment, but we think that's attributed to population change. We don't have the numbers on vouchers yet.

And when do you think that would— I think program just started.

Just started today.

Yeah, that's a half year.

Yeah, last year, the first year. And we, we are now a vendor for those to be able to come take a class or 2 at the secondary level, and then they pay part of their amount to school district to be able to participate. So we'll be able to track that part of it a little bit more.

May I ask, just kind of as a guideline, so of course our buildings, our enrollments are lower, but our buildings are smaller too. Do you have a per— so I could, if I go up and look up the square foot of some of these buildings, you have just a gauge or a guess of per square foot how many kids you typically put in a building, or are all of our buildings about the same? I mean, I was kind of looking at the, what is it called, the Reebly report, the seismic report, right? And it had square footage of the buildings, 25,000, 27,000, you know. Is that—

Our facility sheet has the square footage per building. I would say on a rough, just about 100 students per, um, 10,000 square feet. Okay, so an 85,000 square foot elementary school is going to handle about 750 to 800 students without additional Portables and satellites. A 50,000 square foot building will weigh about 400 to 500. At 60,000, you're going to be about 550 to 600, just for rock.

That's all I need.

Our biggest 2 are in the area are Cascade and Centennial, and they are 80,000+ square feet.

Are they?

But then the smallest would be Westmore, which is probably Built to have 550 people.

And it was recently— I mean, it's not considered, um, it has been at risk for closure. And I had one resident, one parent tell me they asked the principal, do we have to worry about it? And he said no, we're good, we're good down here on the south.

Enrollment is staying fairly—

I just want to say too, on size, it depends too on the building. Like Windsor has a gym and a cafeteria. Where Bonneville, just across State Street, just has 1. So when we look strictly at square footage, it's just a big estimate. But how a building is configured to—

And then do you have a 10-year plan for facilities? Um, I— are you planning to move Mountain View and Lake Ridge to Vineyard?

Like to build in one or both of them?

Yeah, closing the Lake Ridge Junior High and Mountain View High and moving— building a junior high and high school at Vineyard.

Not contemplated.

Has that been discussed? I mean, I actually had someone tell me a board member told them you were gonna do that.

Anytime anyone has asked me about that, I've indicated that in order to support a junior high in Vineyard You need about 6 feeder elementary schools. They only have 2 right now.

I understand.

Are they counting their—

I'm on the Capital Planning Charter School Committee, and I have never heard that discussed. So I don't know where you gain information. However, at this point, I think I would say with some confidence, is not on 5 or 10%.

Our discussion within here, when they've asked about a secondary school, let's say with the capacity that we have in Almonte School, we don't anticipate But I think with the anticipated Utah City in the Vineyard area, we do need to, as a board, have some interaction with the City of Vineyard, how we're doing here, to make sure that we're ahead of their growth.

It's actually a Vineyard City Council person who told me that.

So, and we can anticipate—

that's why I wondered if you'd had conversations with them.

The growth north of 8th north, as they develop that area, we probably could contemplate another elementary, but I don't foresee that secondary school.

Okay, any other questions on—

Facebook.

Yeah, check Facebook. There you go.

Go to the— go to our, um, Almexa District pages, and all of this information is online, so it's readily available, and all the numbers and all the updated enrollments and so on. And, you know, we'll get the final numbers after October 1st when things have kind of settled a bit.

Okay. All right, if there's nothing else on that, let's go to item 2.4, uh, discussion rising taxes in 2023 and 2025. Um, this was, this was something I actually wanted to Get more information on. This is probably the number one thing that, as I'm talking to citizens, they're asking about, and it seems unclear. So I'm just going to see if you guys can clarify how this works, um, regarding taxes.

So, are you talking about our taxes or your taxes?

I'm going to talk about the taxes that Alpine School District puts on the property tax and then also lease route bonds. Um, so Alpine implemented its first lease revenue bond in 2018 for Centennial for roughly $19 million. That's correct, right?

Sounds like you have the data in front of you.

I, I'm just verifying it, but I don't know.

Does that sound right?

Do not have it in front of me. Um, then the second one was in 2020 for $32 million. And those were the first 2. Um, and then in the last 20 months, um, the data I've got says Alpine's passed $113 million in new lease revenue bonds and proposed $86 million more. And, and by proposed, that's just what has been put out there. And so I guess As far as lease revenue bonds go, the question that I'm getting asked is, are these benefiting Orem? And where we got all this talk about splits, splitting into 3 districts, if we've got a couple hundred million dollars of new lease revenue bonds coming on the books, how does that get split if the split happens based on, you know, the other district's fraction?

But Yeah, so any of the, the general obligation bond debt or lease revenue bond debt would be divided by proportion of the taxable value. So, but it has, like you said, the first one there, Ben, was to build Centennial. Part of the second one was to help with, uh, Trailside, which is right next to Orm. It's a good year.

So, but, but they don't follow the, the community. They'll be lumped together. I understand the, the general obligation bond, that makes sense. As far as lease revenue bond, it seems like that should follow the actual structure was built under. But you're saying that's not how it works?

That's not how the law is written. So pretty much whatever is passed, divided up between all the assets and liabilities that way. So they won't look and say, well, what are the assets here? It's either What is everything? And liabilities also.

Um, and so I guess going forward, that would be a concern for them as far as if we're taking on more debt, but we're going to do that for the property. So just from our system. Um, and then the other thing that's been extremely confusing is, like, in the truth taxation last year, we had property tax bill. It said it was going to be like a 20% increase, um, on Alpine School District. This year it said there was going to be like 16% increase.

Yeah.

And so, you know, simple math, that's up to 36%. You compound it, it's more like 39%. But What the question is, is, but then in the media says like this year it's going to be a 7% increase. So can you kind of undo that and explain what it really is?

Very comprehensive, very, very well done explanation of that. You can see online going through the whole thing. He can give you some now, um, but explaining exactly how that works and the fact that everything under tax code isn't listed. In other words, things that are dropping off aren't listed on your tax notes. So yes, you want to give them just a quick summary, but you can look at the entire presentation. And it's on our website as well.

Okay.

Yeah, I watched the board meeting last week, and you can see the storm out the window.

Whistling through.

We had that same storm in our city council. It was worse.

Last year, So that 19% that was listed on the tax notice, um, so that was with 4 increments in capital, 3 in the board levy, so in operations. But that was before the, the school board was able to reduce debt service by 3 increments. So instead of being a net of 7 increase of increments, it was only 4. So that dropped it from 19 to about 10%. And that 10%, or the 19 Is based on what it would have been if that hadn't happened, not on last year. So like mine, when I was— my house in Orem, I actually paid less in 2023 than I did in 2022, even with that increase, because so many of the rates were going down. And then they added that back up, and it was still— I paid in dollars, paid less one year to the next, even with that increase. So that percent increase wasn't on what you paid last year, it was on what you would have paid had they not increased those, those levies. Um, same thing happened this year. It showed a 16.5% increase, and that was for 4 of the 6 levies that school district brings in money for schools. So the line that just says Alpine School District said 16.5%. They were able to again reduce 3 increments in debt service, use some fund balance that's in to pay off general obligation debt. So instead of a net increase of 7 increments, it was 4. And when you include the basic rate in that, then it was a 7% increase over what we would have paid if that hadn't happened, rather than 16.5%.

Yeah, I, I would just say that as a school district, we're in a unique position because we do have multiple ways that, um, you could levy. It's different with you as a city or water conservancy or the county, it's, it's very simple. But for us, it's very complex. And so some of those tax— taxing rates are influenced by what's called the certified tax rate. And others of them are only influenced, for example, debt service, by the decisions that we make as a board. And so some of them will be noticed on that the county notice, and others will not show up there. And it's, it's a perpetual problem we have. And it's, it's, it's frustrating because every year it happens, especially when we drop off debt with, with no bond.

That's what you're, you're calling the levies, right? The levy— it's the levy and the bond payments from previous bonds.

So all of them are labeled levies. So there's the, the one that's listed under Alpine School District. There's actually 4, so this one's called 4, but it's the 4 devoted, which both go to operations. There's the capital, and then there's debt service. So all 4 of those are listed in the one. And then you have the charter school and the basic rate. State sets the basic rate, but, but that money benefits schools in Alpine and also throughout the state.

So, so are the ones that are coming off— just clarify for me— are the ones that are coming off— I know obviously if you have a bond that's paid out, that's going to come off Are there other things besides that that you're possibly making come up, or is it just the bonds that are expiring, they're done, and now they're coming up?

Just the bonds, just that debt service levy. Okay, so that debt service is coming off, and, and then, and then, then the board can choose to say, well, that, that going off, let's keep the rate similar by adding it to capital. So that's a piece that they've, they've started to do instead of having to be reliant on going out all bonds, is be able to pay with cash and save A lot of interest payments paid off.

The problem is that it takes a lot more money to pay for a high school, for example, than an elementary school. So using just tax increments is cheaper to build elementaries, but accruing that much money to pay for a high school, sometimes you lose the savings. In inflation. So it's, it's kind of a something we have to wrestle with, right?

Depending on the rate of inflation the last few years.

Right.

You're probably experiencing that as well.

Yeah, there's another piece of it too. So there's 2 that the board— 2 of the ones the board controls are the voted and the board levies. So the voted was set with them. The voters set a max of 16 increments, and through— as values go up, that rate goes down to get the same revenue each year. So the board and voted have a— The simplest terms, those 2 have to be at 20 increments in the last 5 years when they look back. If not, there's times where the state will say, okay, you're only going to get— we're only guaranteeing you this amount. So if you just— if you didn't do little increments every year, Every 5 years, it could be a big increase just to be able to get all the money that the state's willing to give. But if you don't put it at that, they won't give it to you. So there's certain, certain things that make sense to do little, little amounts in that each year rather than have to do a 30 or 40% increase every 5 years.

If you don't go through that process, you lose state resources.

Okay, well, I just replied to Teresa's email that she sent us today with a link for the post I did. So it's got links for the Truth in Taxation presentation, plus a link to the tax relief information that we like to share with our patrons who may qualify for that. And then it also has a link for the agenda documents from that and the live stream. So if you just want to hover, send that out to everybody, it's all in place.

Okay, perfect.

And just one thing I want to say, like, there are a couple different approaches to raising taxes. You can do just slow increments over time, or you can rip a Band-Aid and do fast. Jordan's district a couple years ago ripped a Band-Aid and did fast, and we went slow. So we went last year a little bit, this year a little bit. Um, there was an article in the paper that said that's a terrible way to do it, that's bad. But if you look at the rates and compare what we tax residents in Alpine School District, which— with what Canyon's or Jordan's do, we're comparable. It's right at the same spot. If you compare it to Provo and Bevo, which are in the same county as us, we're significantly less. So though we had an increase, we're still being very responsible with that funding and trying not to push a big increase to our taxpayers, which is all of us in this room. Over, like, just real fast, but just to just steady it if it's needed. So I think that that's important to remember too on taxes when we do a comparison as to what's happening, happening to happen in the education landscape. We're not an outlier. We're comparable with other districts on the Wasatch Front as a whole and in our valley with us.

Would you say over the last 20 years, your taxes have increased at roughly 7 to 8%? a year if you're normalizing over all of the region?

I don't have that data.

Did not we charge as a district? Yeah, as far as my personal property tax.

The— don't you live in the district?

I do, and I would say they haven't increased by 7 or 8% a year.

If you look at the certified tax rate, it's actually— for Alton, it's actually fallen considerably. Jason, do you have that They'll hold that document, but it's, it's as the housing values go up, right?

So that's the chart. As you tax your taxes, your budget, it's a real puzzle.

I don't know if you can see my first comment, but I do pull this chart up over here. And you can see it's been higher in Howard. The orange part is capital, and the blue is Those 2 together.

I just did a quick calculation on my property in Ormond Beach the last 11 years, and it's about, about 3.5% per year.

That's about how much it's gone up.

Can you pull up the slide which shows the tax rate?

And to your point, Joelynn, actually last 2 weeks ago I spoke with the business administrator at Canyons, and he said just kind of what you said too. They did go out for a lease revenue bond because they figured with inflation rather than wait for their capital levy to supply the cash. They had one more elementary that they wanted to do, and then they would be completely seismically upgraded. And they had one last bond, and they didn't anticipate they would need to go out for a bond again in the next 15 years.

That's what he told me.

So, you know, I understand that strategy, I guess.

That's what I—

And here's that other graph where you could See, it's coming down.

And what, what is that graph?

The Alpine's 10-year history. So again, that rate—

So in other words, you're speaking to the tax rate, the mill rate. Yes, that's gone down because new growth offsets that mill rate. But at, at the end of the day, your revenue may go up even if the certified tax rate staff, which kind of sucks. The treatment taxation, do they differ?

And I would say that property increase— that increase in taxes is also because property values have significantly increased.

From a my pocketbook standard, I understand.

That would be really nice if they just like erased that whole situation and just had a set thing that everyone could understand.

I think the challenge is we're funded by income tax from the state. The state gave a significant reduction in income tax that results in fewer dollars coming into— and from our state legislators, they say, hey, you have the ability to increase that revenue if you want to through property tax.

So it's challenging.

We're getting an income tax decrease.

Yeah. And that's offsetting.

The pressure's on all of us. And it's when you add up what we do with what you do, what the county does, it impacts seriously.

Although we haven't raised our taxes.

But, you know, I'm just—

so we didn't have a big piece go away.

It's what you're talking about.

The state's pushing the problem onto you instead of raising state income taxes and keeping your children in school.

So, okay, any other questions on taxes? Hope that helps everyone understand. Um, let's move on to item 2.5, school busing issues. Who put that on there?

Dave and I talked about this.

Go ahead, Dave.

Well, just, uh, I mean, I got a call from, uh, quite a few citizens on at Lake Ridge, uh, the busing issue with Vineyard and Lake Ridge. Lake Ridge kids were getting left behind, so they had to walk and walk across 13th South. It wasn't safe. So I'm not sure that situation and what— how the buses going to Vineyard leaving these kids.

I don't know what the— do you remember?

I don't, I don't know what reality is, but that's what we heard.

They were having to take a ride fruit vineyard before they got home.

And in theory, it took them an hour. I didn't frankly believe that number, but it was taking a long time for kids to get home that lived south of 13th.

Yeah, so the busy road, they— the kids were crossing the busy road. And yeah, it's dangerous. So that they just asked me to bring it up.

And we were hearing, at least I heard it from a grandmother who didn't know all the facts of the kids and their children. Maybe you heard from other people too. But that's who I think that was our common call dish, correct?

You don't know what particular address point?

I can find that.

We can find that. All the kids, I don't know, from Lake Ridge, whoever lives on the other side of 13 South, those kids are the ones that were walking because I don't know if they—

they were taking a milk run.

They were supposed to do a milk run to Vineyard and then they were going to come back and pick them up and the kids didn't want to wait or something like that. So I don't know.

Oh, Double run.

Yes, that's called a double run.

Thank you.

So you just twiddle thumbs while the bus is gone?

Is that the theory? Yes, yes.

And, and they're impacted a lot less than others. Um, we have significant ineligible routes that we still run in Orem.

Oh, so they're not far enough to get a legitimate— so they're part of the double run, the second half?

Well, we, because of the double runs and other factors, we don't have enough drivers to transport everyone one in a single run. And so many schools have double runs. The bus driver will take a route, come back and get another. So, um, it takes somewhere around 15 to 20 minutes for that first run to get back and pick those kids up. And some students choose to walk rather than to wait the 15 or 20 minutes.

Yeah, I mean, they— her concern, or their concern, was safety of the children if they're walking. Because 13 South is not— it's a very busy, busy, uh, road.

Do we have enough buses? I mean, is it— it's, it's just— so it's the drivers, shortage of drivers.

And we'll raise taxes next year to pay the drivers more.

We raised taxes to pay subs more this year.

And so, uh, we're getting— I think we're turning that corner a little bit. We're able to keep those drivers a little bit longer. Commercial driver's license, a very competitive area because of construction and other— with respect to pay, hard for us to offer full 8-hour contract for a bus driver when they're not working the full 8 hours. We don't need them all 8 hours, so there's some challenges there. But you're starting to see retention increasing for drivers, so hopefully—

And then the kids—

Yeah, it's not a bus issue.

Ryan can give you the name of a recently retired Orem City employee who I'm sure would be happy to drive. I'm not telling you.

I'm not telling you. So can I ask— I also am trying to find it. Which we— real quick.

Oh, oh, I, I'm not from Orem, so I got my map up trying to see what we're talking about. I'm not seeing—

it's University Park.

University Park.

Thank you, Tracy.

main—

sorry about that.

Okay, I could, I could see 12th and then visit that one.

The, the main artery into Orm.

But if I'm understanding, they have a passage, just has to make it run.

Now that I know the terminology, thank you.

And I think she said it was 40 minutes, but I—

we don't know.

But can I add, we have roughly 60,000 cars a day on that street.

Yeah, just—

I think the initial couple weeks of school, as they're getting things figured out and riders, it may take a little bit longer.

But generally, we actually got the call before—

it was—

yeah, so because parents got an email that said that there were buses that were being discontinued to Lake—

yeah, yeah, 13 routes, 13 bus routes in all were being discontinued.

And those are maybe someone who doesn't live far enough away to get a guaranteed bus route.

whatnot.

We'll look into that.

Okay, but who, who determines—

I can't find the email right now—

but the, the busing radius?

The transportation director will do the routing of all the buses. I mean, the state sets guidelines of when you're reimbursed.

X miles away?

I mean, yeah, I mean, mile and a half for elementary, 2 miles for secondary.

Because I was concerned, I mean, uh, with Sharon closing, uh, don't know who I heard it from, but they said that Alpine School District was going to bus those children And no kids were bused, so they're walking.

We had quite a few hit, 2 or 3 kids hit.

We had to put up more stop signs and everything else. So I think— I'm not sure why we wouldn't bus some of those kids, because their parents both work and they have to walk. So I think that's something we need to look at. I'm not sure how your busing thing is, but going back to the budget, I don't know if this is true, Jason, but— Is every kid And Alpine scooters are given a budget item as $244 for busing for every kid.

In the overhead?

Overhead.

Whatever the amount is.

Are you talking about like the reimburse rate if it qualifies? Is that what you're asking?

No, I think what he's talking about—

No, I mean, in the general budget for each kid, each kid's given a budget for $244 for busing. If I—

I don't know, I have to look and see.

So, so, I mean, my question is, if that's the case and we have, I don't know, 85,000 kids, that's $23 million for busing. So what is our busing cost for our elementary school district? And what, what is your busing cost?

I don't know off the top of my head.

I mean, my thing is, I understand, you know, your transportation director maybe needs to relook at things and say, you know, if we can get bus drivers— Tom might want to drive a bus too and get his portion.

Yeah, I work with Ryan.

And see, um, if we can maybe bus some more kids.

I don't know.

I mean, and Sharon— Sharon is the Title I kids, right? So that really concerned me that once it was closed, those kids are walking in snow and everything else because their kid—

their parents aren't driving.

I asked the principal if there was a bus coming from Sharon last year.

He said there was.

So I will check with him, or we will check with him, but I believe there was a bus.

And we can always look at it through— we've had outside entities look at our whole routing system for efficiency, and they said, you're— we can't find any other way that you, with these drivers and with the number of kids you have to transport, any way that's better. We— I mean, we turn that over, turn it over to outside entities to look at and do third-party reviews.

And I think, I think the solution might be if we figure out where these issues are and then we communicate it to you guys, you can look at your systems.

Do you have Hello.

And I think just the reality of it, Orem has 197 stops that are not state reimbursable. So there is a significant supplementing coming to Orem of those bus routes that will, will in the future will need to be addressed because we're— it causes double runs in other areas, and it's just, it's just a challenge. And so I think Orem is getting— you were to look at the total distribution of drivers and routes, Orm is getting a significant amount of transportation services.

And we appreciate that.

Which is why we want our neighborhood schools to stay so our kids don't have to be bused.

But what he's saying is 197 of the—

I mean, I mean, no, that's stops.

You can have more than one. Sometimes I have to look at a story that's told to us like we were just told that kids are walking on 1300. Well, my studying of Google Maps, if they're on Lake Ridge, they would have come down on 12th South and then gone on the overpass over. So they really wouldn't have been over on University.

No, no, no, overpass, what do you mean?

The one from UVU.

And that's if they're going west.

They're going south across that street, across University.

I was taking them into Vineyard and I'm like, No, because the bus goes to Midview first.

The bus goes to Midview and then it goes south on the second run.

And please understand that I understand asking kids to do hard things for transportation. I send my very own daughter across Breadwood Road, which is a 4-lane road, which makes your, your speeds pale in comparison to what people are traveling on that road. Um, on a, on a daily basis, twice she goes across that road. And we have kids that are walking along a road, um, that has those kinds of 65 speeds on it for over a mile that aren't eligible for it.

Right. And I don't think that diminishes anyone's experience. I mean, everyone, they're all having that. So whether it's Orem, whether it's, you know, wherever, it comes out to, you know, It's a, it's a concern. It's a safety issue no matter what to have those kids next to traffic lanes.

Like I said, I think that the solution— because we can talk about here, but now you're aware of it. So we'll be trying— we try to gather information of specifics as we get concerns, questions, complaints. We have a way we can feed those over to you guys and you can evaluate.

If you ever hear any transportation concern, please have them contact the district. we'll have transportation follow up and address that.

And I mean, and I think a good thing happened with, uh, transportation over the Sierra, that the— put in a light to go to crossing on, on 4th East. And I think that's helped the kids walking from Centennial, you know, to go across to that neighborhood east, because it's, it's a flashing light and they're able to cross the street.

We have 50— they may be neighborhood roads, but people are going 50.

Talk to the police chief about that one.

We've been adding more of these rapid flashing.

Yeah, thank you.

It's not quite a HAWK system.

All right, it's less expensive.

It's helped.

I mean, adding that where we have crosswalks.

So I think you've done a phenomenal job on your infrastructure. I would love to have sidewalks for all my kids. So you have sidewalks and stop signs and flashing lights. So all kids have that, I'd be thrilled.

Yeah, and amazing crossing guards.

One of them sitting right here.

We have one of our very best right here with us today.

You know, the city pays for the crossing guards, right?

Yeah, we're good about that.

Okay, let's move on. Um, and, and it looks like this might be duplicate of safe crossing guards.

Well, no, I have other stuff on that. Okay, I was just gonna say this actually segues perfectly into that if you want to.

There's no forward to 2.6, uh, Safe Crossing.

And I guess this is just kind of as a report, um, and I, I just— I'm not saying— I understand this is a sensitive issue, but I just want you to understand we want to be good partners with you guys. But I want you to understand what impact school closures have on us. And for example, Sharon Elementary we were hearing these, um, complaints. I went to meetings with our traffic engineer, to their school community council meeting, um, near misses, kids getting hit and it not being reported, you know, riding their bikes. That it was just kind of really quite chaotic. I'm sure you're aware of that.

Which community council was that?

Cascade.

Cascade.

Yeah, so our engineer was on it. John here did a great job, um, We have put in some pedestrian crossings, concrete islands, ADA ramps, curvings. We've put in these flashing beacons. Tell me their name again.

Technically, they're RFBs, rectangular rapid flashing beacons.

So an engineer named that, right?

It just says what it is.

We call them RFBs.

Oh, RFB.

Rapid flashing beacon. So, and which is kind of the hot signal thing than the hybrid that you're talking about, right, Brent?

Most expensive.

Last—

we've—

if you go by Cascade, we, um, these— our great engineers came up with, um, red curbing an area and putting in the, the, um, bollards so that people wouldn't park there. We've hired an additional crossing guard. Our engineers have spent their time and labor to planning this, um, street laborers, you know, striping and construction crosswalks, um, $35,000 out of our city budget, right, to, to, to do that. And we will do that gladly, right? Anything to, to keep our kids safe. We're looking at 1600 North where we have kids crossing there. That's, uh, unfortunate fatality a number of years ago, a few years ago. Um, Um, another thing, we're looking at Bonneville, and I don't know if you guys have even seen this, but, um, I had some—

I went—

happened to go to Bonneville School Community Council meeting a couple years ago, and they talked about some kids off 12th West that were coming from some condos, and they were told the safe route was to go opposite direction of the school and to cross at 1600 North, so then they could come back and get to Bonneville. of course none of the kids were doing it, they cut across the street, or the parents just drove them for safety. So our wonderful engineers have put together this diagram. I don't know if you've seen this yet. Um, it's kind of— I don't know what you call this, John, but— or Chris.

It's like a hawk.

It's like a hawk. Um, this one right here, I asked for, um, costs on this, $112,000. I'm sure we're going to be working with you on that. But I just want to say, you know, we, we talk about safety and pedestrian safety and walk to school. And just because of the increased traffic in our city due to the increased population in Vineyard, we've seen a direct correlation that has— is putting kids at risk where typically they wouldn't have been at risk. So we are needing more of these things to be done. And then, you know, I really appreciate it. Stacy, right, where you talk about sidewalks. So there's a place up by my house, 400 West, 1600 North, never had a sidewalk.

5—

in front of 5 homes, I think, 5 or 6 homes. We got that put in because the kids walking to Northridge were walking in the dirt, you know, and it was a hazardous situation there. $480,000 to put in that piece of sidewalk, right? So I guess I say this, I, I point these out to say we just really want to be, um, communicate to you guys that we want to partner with you. We want to come up with these safe routes for the kids. If we can advocate to the legislature for busing, if you're having issues with that, we want to help you with that. We have connections in that realm too that we could maybe, you know, put a little pressure on. I just want to see us—

we do have funds and grants as far as for safety, uh, that we're processing. We're doing a lot of research on different grants available for our safety that fits perfectly with this sort of thing.

Yeah, which is one thing that Mayor Young has championed in the last 2 and a half years is we have been through an extensive, um, what would you call it? I can't remember what we call it. Efficiency study. We've saved $1.1 million in our city. Where we haven't had to raise taxes just through reorganizing and installing some more efficiencies and hiring grant writers. So we have more grants available for these types of things. So—

The grant writers are significant. Probably close to $30 million in grants just by proactively going after that and fit some of these sorts of things.

That's awesome.

Yeah, so I just— that's why I wanted this on the agenda. I wanted to just give an update and just really communicate we want to be your partner in this. We really have a great interest from a community standpoint because it costs our taxpayers money also, but it also protects them. That's our goal, right? So that's what I wanted to ask.

So your point person for safety is John, D-O-R-N-L-Y. Okay.

And if, uh, I mean, who knows, they're playing fully in our, uh, regular monthly meeting should cover that.

Yeah, absolutely. I knew nothing about any injured children. It's not in my area, but I, I didn't know anything about that.

So yeah, just know that we want to be made aware and work with you to find the solutions. Okay, anything else on safe crossings? Takes us to our last item, and I don't know if we've covered this or not. We talked about a little bit, but 2.7 is magnet schools.

I'll talk about that because that's my— thanks again. I talked to Sarah about this a little bit, and I guess I'm really— because we talked to Ada and Sarah, Dave and I did, about this. So my point today, we having this on the agenda, was to talk to the other board members. Like I say, I'm kind of disappointed we don't have the full board here. This meeting's been on the calendar for quite some time. Um, I understand they went to a political meeting instead.

Congratulations.

Thank you. I appreciate your dedication to our city because I, I, I communicated my disgust to Ada and Sarah when I learned that that was going to be their choice, that they were choosing to go to a political event instead of coming to listen to, coordinate with forum. Um, the DLI magnet school is a huge concern. I spoke with a parent yesterday. My understanding is that Orchard is not accepting any more out-of-area students, and they're kind of telling everybody to find a school. Um, my, my, my friend that I spoke with was Very upset.

Her—

she can't find a place for her 5th grader because they tried to get in Northridge. Northridge was not taking any more 5th graders. They were taking the lower grades. So, and I don't remember if she told me where she— oh, she ended up back at Windsor because they were at Windsor, but they left Windsor because her kids, most of them have IEPs. And so she felt like they needed some stability in their lives. And when Windsor was announced that it was going to be closed a couple years ago, she went to Orchard, um, to try to keep that stability for their educational well-being. Um, so then she gets to Orchard, and now the announcement for the magnet school, which will close Orchard to the surrounding community and create a Spanish immersion, um, clientele there. Um, and so now she's kind of stuck because her 5th grader, she put him back to Windsor, and Sounds like the DLI, he's going to get bumped somewhere else for 6th grade and then have to go to junior high. So really tenuous time for, for young men. So, um, I, and, and I just happened to read this article in the newspaper today. It was from this weekend, and it said public K through 12 teachers consider poverty, absenteeism, and mental health as major problems, a Pew survey found. And it's Midvale Elementary School in Midvale. And it really struck home with me because I feel these are the communities right now, the Windsor community, that is being affected. You talk about— and I know Stephanie has— we've talked about this from— she went to Windsor. We know our community there. That's where my kids went. If these kids miss the bus to their school, they don't go. They don't have parents to take them. Um, they— it's really quite frightening to me for their future well-being is because they don't have the support system that some of these other, um, kids have, ones from some of these other schools.

Yes.

So if we— and, and establishing, let's just be frank here because I understand Communications have been, like I say, been given to Orchard Elementary and been given to Windsor Elementary. Is that the DLI? I know you're voting on it in September, but, um, it's going to happen.

Can I hold on to that?

We're not—

that's not—

we would open the studies, but we're not voting on programs, correct, Superintendent?

Right, but you'll vote on by the end of December. Yeah, you'll vote by December, basically. Yeah, but it's— I mean I don't know. I'm just telling you, that's formality is what I've heard. So, but maybe not. That's why I'm talking to you guys, right? I'm hoping that you'll change your mind.

I will tell you that I have an issue with that. No, we don't pre-make decisions, right? We haven't even opened this study. So we haven't had a presentation from staff saying, this is our recommendation. I'm really sorry that that mom felt like she had to move her student when a decision hadn't been made. That would have been least disruptive, right? Leave your student until we know. What's actually—

they announced you— the closure of Windsor was announced when she moved her kids, and we lost 25%.

We didn't vote to close that. We never voted to close it.

We did not.

Okay, well, I'm not going to litigate that here because I think that was kind of in litigation. But let's— what I'm trying to say here is I'm actually advocating for the students in this area, for our Windsor kids, because opening the magnet school at Orchard will effectively close Windsor. It will save Northridge, right? Kids will have to move there, but Windsor will— everyone in the community understands. I've been to PTA meetings, they understand what that will set into motion there.

So we have those challenges across the district, right? Like we have areas of poverty in all of our municipalities. And I have a significant chunk in Lehigh that if they were to be moved from their school, they would also not get there. So I think just be aware that across across the board, we face those challenges everywhere. The school population might be higher, so the impact is felt differently, but, but we are trying to meet all of their needs, right? We don't get any of the Title I funds in the West, so trying to balance— and I think behind the, the magnet school, the idea is we have parents that are very passionate about that experience, right? I think DLI is fantastic, and there are a lot of opportunities. The challenge with that becomes, if we're supporting DLI, then We're not giving it to the neighborhood school, right? And so you're kind of giving 2 buckets of lettuce help you out. So I think the proposal was, what is the way for us to be able to maintain this programming without impacting our neighborhood kids, which is what is impacting it if we don't subsidize it from our end?

Well, I just see both happening. I see— I mean, definitely the neighborhood kids are getting impacted, the school's being closed.

No, what I'm saying, we already have that existing right now, right? So we are not Subsidizing those DLA programs, then the principals are using their school funds, which means then the neighborhood students are disadvantaged. So we're trying to find a solution that allows everybody to kind of have what they need. But at the end of the day, we don't have enough money to keep funding both.

So I have a question because we haven't made a decision. We're studying it. So this is a study question. If I had to prioritize having a magnet school so I could have a DLA program, Or no DLI program, what would your community preference be?

I don't really see that as a— I mean, as a choice. I mean, to me, Windsor is a successful— and Orchard have both been very successful DLI programs. Thing I loved about Windsor is my children were learning Spanish and had minority fellow students.

Can I ask what your metric was about being successful?

My children going to junior high and pointing out how many racist kids there were in the junior high they went to, and not understanding why those kids were treating the other kids the other way.

So I think kind of on my end, it's looking at how many students are in that program. Is there— are there enough students to be able to fund that? Because I think the opportunity is amazing, but to Joy Lynn's point, If we don't have enough students to fill a program and we have to choose.

So I guess my, my, my point would be, can you wait until after the school split is decided, and then we as an Orem community can decide if we want to pay more taxes to fund that program? Then it takes it away from you, right? I mean, we could have— we would have a new school board in place, and then they can ask permission from the other boards Can we raise our taxes because we want to continue with this or this or this? You know, it just allows their things to settle. Like I said, this whole bit about, um, our North Orem is in, um, chaos. I don't know how to tell you how to say it any differently. Sharon Elementary, Cascade has had a rough road combining with Sharon. Windsor doesn't know if they're going to be there or not. Orchard is not letting new kids in. Northridge parents are, are going to other— finding other, um, places to educate their children. I mean, we are— I don't know how to explain. It's disrupted. And these— I've had parents say, we can't even get our kids through COVID.

We can't even—

we haven't even felt stable since COVID So I'm not asking for a debate right now. I'm not really asking for a decision. No, no, no.

And I I appreciate—

I'm not saying that to say that I don't appreciate everything you've said, because I totally do. I get it. I mean, I was a PTA mom for 20 years. I volunteered in the schools, and my heart just is there, right? Public education. I'm going to emphasize that too. But just a moment, Ada. But I guess what I'm saying here is I want you to go back and think about that. I totally— I've seen your trouble, trouble your, um, issues on the west. It's horrible, right, to have the kids not have a place to sit, or, you know, classrooms, the teachers. I'm just trying to say, wow, if we could just have some peace. Can you give us 2 years to stabilize, see if the district is splitting, see if the residents in Orem want to increase their taxes for education? I mean, I'm not talking warm. This would be warm Vineyard, Linda, and Peachy, right? Our area. Give us that opportunity before painting us in this box that then creates even more chaos for these families. Because frankly, you know, we've had— I mean, 2020, we've had 4 or 5 years of chaos, right? That's a whole elementary, almost an elementary school. Time in an elementary school, right? Your whole, your whole years in junior high and high school, right?

Yeah, I mean, when you talk about chaos, they live in a high-growth—

I'm not—

I do not want to do a comparison because to me, that's just not the way you approach things. It doesn't make— I'm not trying to be dismissive of your challenges at all, and I'm really trying to actually embrace them and say, I get it, it's a different challenge.

I, I think what What I hear Lenny saying is just there's been a ton of chaos going on in the, in the northeast part of town, and we still have no idea where, you know, what's going to happen as far as with the election this fall. If we'll be one school district, if we'll be 3, or if we'll be 2, we just don't know.

Right.

And so with that in mind, try and leave us as stable as possible until we get to the other side of wherever we're going, and then we can make decisions. Go to the best for our community. That's what we're saying.

I just want you to know that, that if we—

if we—

I mean, the term has been coined, kick the can down the road, then we are accused of being board members that are not responsive to the entire district. And what we've seen is, in, in an effort to backfill our falling enrollments, we have relied heavily on programs. Gifted and talented and dual language immersion. I mean, it's unheard of really to have 2 Spanish immersion programs, 2 DLI programs right next door.

It's been happening for 25 years. What do you mean?

Well, that's what I'm saying is for 25 years we've had those programs. We're coming up against the consequences of relying too much on programs to backfill our schools to the detriment of our general ed students.

But what we're saying is that this is not like forever do this. Just let us get to the end of wherever we're going, because if we don't want to get to the end of where we're going and be boxed into a corner and have all these things we need to change, so just let us keep some stability for a year or 2 or whatever the timeline is.

I can't promise that.

Well, that's all we're asking is to have stability for for a couple years until we know where we're going next, because it doesn't make sense to change paths before we know where we're going to be next.

I understand.

So, so I understand what you're saying, and I think the thing that I would like you all to understand is on our end, this has been studied for years. And maybe the public perception was the first time that it was presented, oh wait, they're looking at DLI, but it had been years in progress, right? And so one thing, um, before you even joined, was all the work we had all of the time committed to was Wherever this went with reconfiguration, because that conversation has been happening for 20 years, right? But we were committed to still doing the things that we needed to do for kids. So I totally understand where you're coming from. I'll absolutely take that into consideration. But at the end of the day, if the split passes, everything is locked down for 3 years, right? And so if we don't have the resources we need, that's just really what this is, right?

We—

it's a scarcity issue. We don't have resources we need. So then if we're going to pin everybody down for 3 years, I don't want to go through those treatment taxations knowing that we could have done things which— and I understand when patients on fixed income are saying like, we can't do this. So when there's something that is in my control to do that doesn't feel catastrophically adverse, like that, that's for me where I am in the consideration of these programs. Can we keep them? Can we consolidate them so it's less of an impact and be able to then, you know, do it moving forward? Because quite honestly, looking from years of our study, I don't think your programs are going to regenerate to keep the number of programs that you currently have. So how can we set you up for success to maintain those programs, but also not be such a negative impact on taxpayers?

In her area, there is zero DLI.

Well, then that's her problem. Start advocating for it.

Oh my gosh. It's not just her problem.

Actually, DLI since long before I was on the I know that is not just her problem.

It's—

our experience has been, and there certainly are individuals that have— this is not typical for them, but the Centennial and Oak Crest merger has turned out to be a positive for those students affected. Sheridan Cascade is a positive for those students affected, generally speaking, the metrics that we look at. As you have dual language immersion programs and the boundary enrollment declines, the students— not the dual language immersion students, but the boundary students— have less choice and less opportunity, um, for programs, for teachers, for collaboration. That's our main concern, is the declining enrollment of the boundary population with a magnet program that was supposed to offset that. When that enrollment gets to a certain level, it's in— it acts to the detriment of the boundary students. So that's what we're studying.

Yeah, well, I understand. I feel like Windsor— it has helped Windsor. The person suffering is Northridge. So close Northridge.

I think those boundary students and the principal at Windsor would say the children that are feeling the effects of that are the Windsor.

What I'm saying is just give us stability, as much stability as you can, until we figure out where we're going next. It's because right now there's a lot of unknowns.

And, and 3 years of waiting until the new district is operational is half of those children's educational experience, and we need to be cognizant of that, right? If, if we can affect their well-being, we ought to.

So it sounds like the decision is made. Well, no, I mean, it does. I'm sorry, I'm just going to call it like it is.

That was my question, is if there was to prioritize, just so going into it I would younger community's thoughts. I have not made a decision.

I just wanted to know what was more important, which way to go.

It's not been made.

And I'm just trying to articulate some of the reasons why it's even being studied.

And I think just one other thought, as far as the conversation about, you know, that's your problem. No, I don't agree with that. I don't think that's what was meant. I think what we're saying is every area should be optimized independent of the other areas and whatever the process is to make that happen. That's where we should wind up.

And that's why, like, no offense taken, it's fine. And I think probably one of the biggest challenges is sometimes I talk to the municipality leaders in my city, like, sometimes I think it would be the loveliest thing to just work within the boundary of my city, right? Because it just, I don't know. That feels like an offense to me, but I don't wish to do your job. Thank you for doing yours. Um, I'm happy to do mine. But on our end, we are looking at different areas, right? And the needs are so different everywhere. So, so I totally understand your concern. Like, I have same concerns too, right? I'm not looking to make a decision that disadvantages Orange students, right? But at the end of the day, I have to make the decision that is best for all the areas, right? So, I mean, you can ask my people. There are times they do not like the decisions I make, but I'm, but I'm looking at all the kids, right? So I guess just as thank you for your concerns, like, I really do appreciate them. And I know that, you know, we are closest to our people, right, as opposed to kind of some of the other areas of government. But also maybe just consider, you know, that, that we are trying to make decisions for 85,000 kids. And so sometimes, well, always people are not happy, right? But we really are trying to do the best thing for the greatest number of kids.

We will always advocate for kids.

Yes, if you don't mind, we'll advocate for them. Thank you for listening.

All right. Well, we've come to the end of the agenda. Are there any final comments?

Do we not have anything on the agenda?

Well, that we worked with them on together. Okay, thank you.

These all sounded like our items, so except for maybe sharing.

So I really appreciate you all coming. And, um, and attending a meeting with us. And I think the best way to make forward progress is to have good communication. So I appreciate y'all coming in to make that happen. Likewise with our group. Okay, um, there's nothing else. We don't have to vote.

We have to move to adjourn.

I don't know.

We do.

Okay, make a motion.

So moved.

Second.

Okay, thank you.

Hi, I'm on to make some motion.

Hi, hi, everybody, thank you.