City Council · 2025-09-23

And their hotel nights spend just the same. Those are inexpensive and simpler logistic ways to build the base of our sports tourism portfolio. This one would be significantly higher. There's a massive public safety burden, traffic burden for our residents once a year. It would probably require us to work together closely to say, can we get the Heart of Orem started in a way that we are excited about using it to present our city? 2 years from now, May of 2027 would be the first year of this event. We're still in the bid process. We don't have this event. And we are still sort of internally negotiating how— what does Utah County want out of this? What does Provo want out of this? What does Orem want out of this? This is where we've identified May as a potential target. The algal bloom that happens at Utah Lake is late summer. So we would need to be late spring to early summer. That puts us in close proximity of UVU graduation, Orem Fest, Memorial Day weekend, Utah Valley Marathon, and a number of other events events that stretch our staff in significant ways. On the opportunity side, this is a prestige-level destination event. This is something that you can use as part of the branding identity of Orem City. This aligns with our love of health and outdoors exercise competition. It shows off— there's every part of Orem is the best, but it shows off some of my favorite parts of Orem in terms of our natural beauty, our access to the canyons and lakes and everything like that. And if I had people coming from all over the world to be here with us, Those are the places that I would want them to associate with Orem City. I think maybe most importantly is this is a really cool opportunity for us to work closely with the Tourism Tax Advisory Board, Explore Utah Valley, the county, the Utah Sports Commission, and then our neighboring cities here in the valley on a project of this scale. Mayor, I've already alluded to it, but you and I were able to receive a couple of million dollars. You, you were able to work with the Tourism Tax Advisory Board to bring that to Orem City, and we were able to offset a third of our cost of the improvements at Lakeside. These are the same entities that control those funds. And so I think our ability to say, hey, we're here to participate and work together to bring tourists here to our city, is a sound investment in our future of that relationship to make sure that we are front of mind for them when it comes time to put funds towards Mount Timpanogos and our entryway at the front of the canyon, or to put— funds towards our Heart of Orem and these other significant projects that we have. This is, of course, a win for our Orem hotels, our restaurants, our bike shops.

I mean, prior to that, Orem had really not gotten its fair—

because Orem generates a lot of wealth, right?

Orem hotels represent a bulk of the county's inventory for events of this scale. And so, yeah, I think—

So we've kind of been left out. So this is an update. That's going on as far as raising those funds.

To put our best foot forward, I think, to help them understand that we are a part of that ecosystem. So it's not a guaranteed, it's not a, you know, a contracted, you know, exchange of, hey, if we do this, then you will fund that. But it is, I think, the room, the table that we want to be sitting at is hosting an event like this. So Just to reiterate back to that first slide, the base of our parks and recreation system is for our residents. When we then consider the small portion that goes to attracting outside events, we typically rely on youth sports for the bulk of that. An event like this would be one example of an event that could help us diversify. It is an incredibly expensive event, both in-kind and cash and opportunity cost. And is not without its logistical challenges. I don't think we should be married to this event or this company or this single opportunity. However, I think this is the type of thing that we would like your input on. Should we be considering and building out towards? So we're trying to work closely with Explore Utah Valley to get an answer back within the next couple of weeks. And so we're not committed to anything yet, and I'm very open to y'all's feedback or your thoughts or your concerns. And and how we can build something that we think, uh, best hits, uh, the high notes and misses most of the low notes.

So would this be an annual event? The hope that people would come back every year for this?

Contractually, we'd enter into a 3-year agreement upfront, and many places have hosted for years and years and years.

And which year would be in question?

2027, uh, so 21 months from now. Yeah, 2 years in a row, or Yeah, for— so if we were to submit the bid and get the bid, we would for sure host '27, '28, and '29.

This is my experience with these Ironman races. They open up, they fill up, you know, 55 weeks in advance. So I mean, it's sitting on that kind of revenue, $700, $800, $900 per participant for an entire year. And so I mean, they're huge events.

How you would measure ROI on something like this? I know it's a little bit tricky. It's in relationships or it's in this or that. Like, do you have a sense of the cost-benefit analysis?

You know, it's similar to how we have done the cost-benefit analysis on a field. We started with field tournaments first for a reason. They are the simplest. So, you know, the tools we have to track the data that you see up here, how many people are coming, and the same data tells us, did they stay here? Did they eat here? Did they shop here? And so this is how we wanted to build our base. This is probably the safest, albeit smallest way to build a sports tourism base. We have found this. And so we would be able to work with Explore Utah Valley, who has even better tools than we do, plus the internal tools we have to measure that success. And then, you know, we'd have to rely on things like our experience design reports, our net promoter scores afterwards to say, is this worth it, both for the participants and for the other 95,000 people that had a slower commute that Saturday morning?

Right. I think for us the big thing will be just being able to justify this to taxpayers, why this is a good idea, how this helps our community. And the money doesn't come back to us as a city necessarily, but it comes back to our residents, you know, business owners and that kind of thing.

It comes back through hotel tax.

So yeah, sales tax definitely comes back to our city, but it is less direct.

We—

when Ironman makes those dollars on the registration, that doesn't come to us.

That's why cities build stadiums, soccer stadiums, right, to bring Revenues through people to events.

I mean, there's, there's hotel tax, there's sales tax from the spend that goes on. But even bigger than all that, I mean, from my perspective, even if we just break even on this, it's a huge community to host the Ironman in Aurora.

Where we would get to an ROI positive is if we can use this to leverage getting transient room tax dollars for, like, the heart of downtown or for other arts projects like up at Timpanogos Park. That's where it would become a hard dollar positive for the city.

I leaned over to me. The number communicated from Ironman for this event would be an $11 million economic impact over the weekend. Now, Several grains of salt that I personally believe some of those numbers come in really rosy up front. And having been a part of the— I hear the economic impact from a sports, a soccer tournament, and then we see our numbers. I think it's a massive— I think it is millions of dollars of economic impact. But I would maybe just add my— If Brandon Nelson were here, he could give us the real numbers.

You know, cut those in half or something breaks down and they have to go to a bike shop here in Norman and get more parts, or they have to go buy a new swimsuit because theirs doesn't work, or whatever. There's all of that optional, or you can't really count, but opportunity.

Chief Sanderson mentioned, you know, an entry fee of $600,000, $800,000. That is also the level of economic opportunity you're presenting to the city with an event like this. This is typically a high spender who would be eating and spending and vacationing well here in Orem City.

Dr.

Races, all doctors.

That's true. Do we have a sense of how, like, Provo, their temperature is with regards to this?

You know, Explore Utah Valley is the one managing a lot of it. So I think they're looking for us to bring our temperature. We each bring our temperature back, but I've been on several calls with Provo City and aligning the racecourse and all of that. And I think what we're trying to do is How much we each want to leverage our financial participation and in-kind participation to control. You know, I think for me, I would love to make sure that the finish line is here in Orem City. You know, that to me is a big, really important part of why we would do something like this. This Explore Utah— excuse me, the Utah Valley Marathon also comes down our canyon, but I don't think that feels like Orem City. It's one of Orem City's events. It's an event that we deal with the traffic on. And so I want to make sure that this one is equal. I want each of the entities to feel excited about it, but I would love to make sure that we are putting in the effort or the cash or something like that.

Draw is here.

Yeah, we basically brought this to the table to have, you know, Utah Valley check it out. So that, that's why we're feeling very involved in this happening.

So, Bryce, you want to tell us why Ironman would even want to be in our vicinity?

What was the reason?

Um, because Orem's the best.

The races are all over, right?

So, yeah, so there, there is— they left St. George, uh, in 2024. We've discussed with St. George why they left, and, you know, there was concerns of the traffic, and it's a pain, and our residents are fed up with, you know, but they have 20 of these weekends a year. There's a marathon or a triathlon every other weekend. So, um, they left Utah. Or excuse me, they left St. George. Their next closest is Kennewick, Washington, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, Phoenix, Arizona in January. And so I think there is a strategic need for them to put something in the Intermountain West as well. So I think we could make a bid, but I also think they are asking us as well. You can't go to the phone book to try to find them to call them out of the blue.

Let me just say, Bryce, too, that St.

George course is one of the most challenging Ironman courses that they actually host. And so they were losing— they were having a decline in their registration. And so financially, they were looking for a different venue.

Like I said, they reached out to us. That's kind of how it all started.

St. George.

They've left St. George. There will be a gap in the Ironman between '25 and '26.

It's done it a bunch of times. And if it comes here, oh yeah, and I've got the day off.

But he'll be back to work the next day. You know what? But I'll have 2 weeks off.

I would say the timing is also maybe aligning with, with where we've been. I mean, Bryce talked about how we've turned more of our fields into multi-sport use to attract more sports tourism here to the city. So this would be further diversification of the portfolio. And we've had— we've seen from you greater interest in going after grants and putting dollars towards trails and up the canyon and everything. And so it seems timing-wise. That those interests are kind of aligning and coming together.

I think the Rec Commission was definitely on board from our last meeting, so I'm okay about this. It is big money.

Well, I will—

feel free to reach out to me directly. I will continue to sort of work through the final numbers, Brett and I, on, on What is this? You know, or Councilmember Gale, you know, what's the ROI? You know, it's— we're committing very real money and time upfront for potential economic impact. What number are we comfortable with taking that risk? I would reiterate, we feel that some of the money from field rentals from increased sports tournaments could go so that this is not a general fund. I mean, it is general fund, but it's general fund money that is new because we have grown sports fields. So maybe it is less risky than saying. You know, it's either this or, you know, a project for public safety or something like this. Hopefully we're able to connect it to the money from having tried this in other spaces. We might not get this bid, and this was all just a fun what-if, but we— I think maybe based off of y'all's feedback, exploring and maybe pursuing an event or 2 like this, whether it's this one or a future one, might be nice. Is that a fair—

Yeah, I like it.

Sure, why not?

Why not?

There we go. Okay, great.

Thank you.

Thank you, Bryce. Uh, next up, 1. Engineering project update.

I've been asked to provide an update on CIP capital projects. And the sheet I passed around was just putting together a quick list of project areas. Want to drive around and look at them, or if you— where they're at, that'll help you to see. Like number 1 there, annual roads project. If you look at the The orange lines that represent all the projects. Number 2 is micro, all the yellow, then all the numbers listed there. Uh, then Ryan's going to touch on some of the bigger projects. So what are the yellow lines? Yellow are microsurfacing, uh, treatment, surface treatment to seal the roads.

Very—

surface treatment. Um, picture here is of 800 South between Geneva and I-15. And one of the— one of our most important responsibilities in engineering is to coordinate with Public Works and basically everybody in the city and just make sure that roads are not cut into. We can help it that we don't only cut into the roads. Right after they're put in, or a year after they're put in. So our job is to make sure and coordinate everything underground, the utilities, whether it's water, sewer, storm, could be gas, you know, private utilities, just notifying all the companies, meeting with Public Works regularly just to make sure that— Public Works does a great job of planning these roads out. They've got a great 5-year plan listed for all the roads. Every year we've got $2 to $3 million of roads projects that they're planning 5 years out. So we're trying to look ahead a year or two in engineering just to make sure that if we've got a bad water line on one of those roads, that we get a water line project the year before that. So We met with Public Works recently. We do CIP planning meetings and invite a representative from every department there to coordinate with us. And if there's money available, we'll try and help them. All the utilities do a great job of coordinating. Tom Nison and his team in engineering do a great job of tracking that and making sure that if there's Any utilities, we're trying to get them done. Don't want to cut into brand new roads, right?

And sometimes that's why we wait on some roads. We'll complain about them, but we'll say we know of other projects coming, so sorry, we just have to put up with them for a little bit longer.

Good example of that is 950 North. That's why I'm looking at you. 950 North.

Falcon Road.

I think that's item 12 on here.

It's coming.

Oh, it's right there.

It's happening. It's happening.

It took me 11, 12 years.

Oh, no, no, no.

Took me 12 years to fly planes through elementary, but—

A little more patient. All right. Well, there is a waterline trench patch right in front of the— you're right. Recently, Lance Excavation got that bid for about $3 million, various areas throughout the city, and they're working fast to get that in before school starts. Recently. Next one here is 800 East, 400 North. Oak Hollow did this project. This was a long time coming, I guess. This got right-of-way 15-plus years ago on the southeast corner. We ended up widening out there as part of our roads project, did a change order there. And we coordinated quite a bit with each owner to get easements or right-of-way on the corners. Coordinated with Public Works, Taylor, Justin, and Erica did a great job putting this together in engineering. coordinating with Rocky Mount Power, contractor. So it's in. I think it's improving the traffic flow there. Yeah, it's— Councilman Spencer, this is kind of Public Works Director's pet project, so you're in good company. Took me longer than 950 North.

Really?

Yeah.

Thanks, Scott.

Then I feel better.

Yeah.

Okay, Northridge Park Sports Courts. This is a great location. I wish I lived in that neighborhood because it's just hidden. It's like tucked back up in there, and it's a great facility. It looks really nice with the black powder coat chain link fence and lighting. There were 2 tennis courts there before. We've got a new playground. It's all landscaped. You've got a tennis court and I believe 4 pickleball courts. And then it's got nice concrete and ADA access. So everything's all finished this summer. That was Parkin Tennis Courts. Parkin also did— the contractor, they also did the Windsor Park Jazz Court. And that one's turned out really nice. This, this plan here shows different phases. The jazz court was the first phase. Our second part's going to be— we've got one of our engineers working on the design for this, coordinating with Tyler Paye. Pickleball. Got new lighting for the courts and also the ball fields. So doing a lighting RFP we're putting together right now, and then— Got a storage restroom building that we're working on.

It's nice.

And if you have any questions or anything you want to stop me, go ahead. This one's Center Street HAWK pedestrian signal. Anyone can tell me what HAWK means? I had no clue what it meant. So bonus points. But this one's currently being built out here by Skyline Electric. You probably know this. They On boring conduits. Over the years, I've noticed there's just a lot more traffic in City Center Park. There's just a lot more activities going on— Winterfest, Summerfest, food trucks— and there's a big draw from this neighborhood to the south with, you know, a lot of people trying to cross at 300 East. So the location of this, we thought, would be good right there in the middle of that. Parking lot, it's kind of the middle of, um, Ozark City Center. It is closer to 4th East, but this is, uh, Lost Eagle Drain. There we go. That one is almost complete. Next one, wastewater reuse project was completed earlier this year by Cody Acker Construction. And this has also been something that been going on for how many years, Chris? 2018? I think that it's been going on a long time to get to a point where we'd like to have the wastewater— Definitely. —is the outlet there to be reused in our parks, spring water, Sports Park, golf course. So they completed the section from this roundabout to the south and west of that elementary school up to Lakeside Sports Park. Same contractor, Cody Ecker, got our sewer replacement project. This is one that we coordinated with the Rose project to put in from around 900 West from 4th to The 630 North. And Kodiak has been a great contractor and did a lot of work for us on those 2 projects. Street lighting project, if you look at your map, we've shown on there— I think it's number 9 and number 27. Yeah, number 9 is the phase we completed This past year, just south of Hillcrest Park. And this picture location, this is at 14th South and 800 East. It's the southwest corner. That's just a before and after. And it's really nice to have those older poles moved and replaced. So that's in the same location. Most of them are in different locations. We try and space them every 150 to 200 feet. This one just happened to be in the same spot. But that project, we did about 70 to 80 new lights south of Hillcrest Park. Then— So highlighted the areas there on the map. Project 27 is Phase 5, which we're currently working on and requires a few reasons. There's going to be probably around 100 different Residents that you need to talk to 200 different properties to get easements for conduit and lights. So it's not an easy thing. It goes really slow, but the design engineers are doing a great job, working really hard.

So, Tiger, I have a question on, on back on Windsor. Are we using the same contractor? Is it going to be bid out again?

It'll be a different Bid process every time.

That's one.

Cherry Apple flooding location about a year ago last August. Pretty bad storm that flooded. This is on, uh, Heather Road, the Cherry Apple neighborhood. You guys are familiar with that. A lot of the water will inundate this property through the parking lot there and go flow into that Cherry Apple neighborhood. And there's just a low spot there where kind of a natural floodplain where the water just naturally goes, and then it flows between the homes. In that instance, that storm was a, I believe, a 50 or 100-year storm that flooded dozens of basements throughout the city. And so this is one of a couple projects— we've got more we're working on— that, uh, put a little curb wall along there with deep sumps. P&L Construction did this, and they're also working right now up in the Cherry Apple neighborhood to put in sumps. So if you want to go check it out, pretty fun. What did you actually do with that? I mean, what happens underneath the ground? Do you make a bigger hole for the water to go in to get into the system, or— So, first, we look at the wellhead protection zones. Around every well, we've got different types of zones to protect that well. We make sure we're gonna put in a sump or injection. We wanna make sure 250-day zone is the closest one around the well, that they're not in that zone. If they're outside that zone, then we'll put in sumps. In this location, we put in 20-foot-deep sumps. Our standard's about 11 to 13 feet deep, so we went a little bit deeper. Then we interconnected those with pipe to make sure they all— they're connected together. Sometimes we'll do perforated pipe. And what that entails is, if it's a sump going down, or perforated pipe, we make sure there's perforations in there, holes, they're circular structures. So, Water injects into, and then we'll put 3 feet of gravel around that and around the bottom of it, and then we'll put fabric around that. So it's basically just an injection point, gets water into the creek. We do have a pipe system there that pipes out of that low point. It just can't handle a 100-year storm. Yeah, hopefully it helps. We're Trying to— it's been a great project, I think, for engineers and, you know, for residents, for the contractor, just to try and help people so the basements don't flood. This is your favorite, 950 North.

There you go.

Uh, the Oak Canyon— no, Canyon Junior High. And it's about 700 East, uh, Lantz excavation. projects, just over $3 million, and they completed that very quickly. They're a great contractor. They are coming back, as weather permitting, throughout the winter and finish up in the spring with several different areas throughout the city, mostly water and sewer. This project— I'm— this project is Part of one of our MAG projects. And it's Murdoch Canal Trail crossing in our North Fort Hunt East. And long-term goal is to put in a bridge. Hopefully we can find some funding to do that. Even if we were able to get funding, it's still going to be a long ways out. So we have come up with this plan do some short-term improvements to hopefully make it safer. And, and, um, and it's currently being constructed right now. If you notice up there, we tied that— we did a change order with the roads project, or did from state, pulled the $1,600 and added this into it to hopefully get it done here soon. As long as I didn't— Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's done. Driven through this roundabout, got dizzy. Yeah, it's very much like— you can see in the aerial there on the right side is the old circle, the inner side of the roundabout. So it's quite a bit bigger than it was before. This one was, I'd say, at least 5 or 6 years planning, long time. Trying to get this done. Great project. Uh, gotta give props to Jerick Peck. He did a great job on this one, just managing it. We had a bid item, the MAG project, and usually you're going to throw in there everything you can. MAG pays 93% of this, so we had construction management in there for like over $200,000, and we took it out because our construction engineer team said we can manage this, and they did a great job with Making sure the grades, everything flowed and everything was put in correctly and did a great job managing this. So that was built by RC Enterprises.

If I can jump in on that roundabout, if you go back to it, one of the great things that they do in the engineering department, I don't know if you realize it, but Orem pretty much has its own engineering firm. And so we work often on projects, and we will often design a project or a project that we have with internal staff. We manage the construction process rather than having to go out and hire a 3rd party to do it. It saves the city a lot of money. One of the interesting things they did on this, knowing this is going to be a— it's not your normal roundabout. Oh, you've seen some around town.

It's pretty big.

It's pretty complicated. They actually went out and worked with UDOT to, uh, before construction began and final design, to map out that buses could get through and things like that, so that we didn't have any problems with construction in the future. Having Taggart and his team do what they do saves the city, frankly, hundreds of thousands of dollars. a year in the way they coordinate, the way they manage these projects. So I do want Taggart to— his arm patting himself on the back. So I'm going to do it for what he's doing, and it's okay if my arm gets hurt, but they literally save us lots and lots of time, effort, and money with what they do and how they do it.

Just that one, just to elaborate a little bit more on that, Ryan. We did work with quite a bit with Rocky Mountain Power. There's some aerial lines that went through that intersection. We got those put underground. We worked with the church quite a bit. Um, purchased the home on the northeast corner. Worked with UVU, purchased UVU property. All that took years to do that, and there was a lot of coordination. And then we did work a lot with UTA. We had it paved, and then you can see there's concrete islands as you approach the roundabout. Got concrete medians. They were really concerned their buses were going to hit those turning. Got those long— they call those buses the articulated. Yeah.

40s.

And they're really thinking these are tight. And so what we did was we went out and sprayed them before we put the concrete in. Actually moved one of the ADA ramps about 5 feet wider. And we carved the offals to make them more round. And okay, let's go to the next one. So yeah, we were able to help UTA out. This one is a Center Street widening project working with Avenue Consultants currently to do the design. This is another MAG project from Geneva to I-5. Okay, I'm gonna talk really fast. This is our 10 million gallon water tank from the air. This is what it ended up looking like. The actual— it actually looks like the design piece of fruit with the leaves. I hope you can see it. The twigs are the paths. On the trail around it. Turned out amazing. Yeah, if you can go out and walk around it now, if you'd like. There is just one corner that's not finished. That'll be finished with the pump station project. These are some shots Lane took this week showing the play structures around the tank and swing set feature in the one corner. And some of the landscaping up against the neighbors to the west. Coming soon, starting in December, is the pump station well house. There's been some delays in procurement that has pushed us back. And so they're working on those pumps, getting them ordered and getting them here. And these were what those structures will look like. The cabin has been stripped down and is ready to be reassembled when we add for it in the park, which will come with this project as well. City Hall update. You've all seen it. Today we've had a lot of action.

We've brought in—

there's been a lot of fill. We're excited to see that. And right now, kind of the deadline we're telling everyone is November 18th. We're hoping to plant the Freedom Tree. So if that happens on November 18th at the council meeting, the Freedom Tree sits right here. And that means everything else around it's done. So they're going full speed ahead. Just a reminder of what it looks like. These posts are out there on the ground, and if you can see them, it gives you a good visual of where the Freedom Plaza sits. Those are those poles right here and here. It's quite a large area, and there's still this seating area with the pergola to come out here as well. So it's really going to transform the look. Just the overall view of it with the landscaping and all the trees and vegetation that are still to come. We're sitting right in this little corner here, and the Freedom Plaza is right there, the pavilion location. You just saw this, so don't need to cover that, but December completion. This is before they moved in, kind of what it looked like. And then the fire training facility, Mark's baby, is going to be done in December.

I'm not holding my breath.

The 2 buildings up in the corner are done. Those are the burn buildings. This is the commercial structure, the residential structure. Apologize for the poor photography, but I didn't want to drive my car out into the job site. And this is the classroom building. Uh, slow-mo on that project, but we're also held up by the Geneva Road project that has to run a storm drain line through our site, and they are down mobilized right now at US Synthetic, base of that storm drain line that will run all the way to Geneva Road. And then you just went through this project.

Can I ask real quick? So just to clarify again, We are anticipating that the fire training facility will be a revenue-producing place because you're going to— other fire departments. Okay.

A few things we didn't talk about with the public safety building, which is now the police building. We'll be redoing our sign out front and putting new lettering up on that. By the library halls you walked by, it says public safety. It will now say police. Um, a new roof was just completed on the building. They're putting Christmas lights on it right now as we speak today. 2 new boilers have been installed, and they're doing the pipework on those. And then the new chiller is sitting right back there, the green box behind the trackhoe. That chiller will be installed in October. So the roof, chiller, boiler, that's all being done outside of the contractors. Scope that's being done by our facilities team in-house. And so that facilities team, if I can pat them on the back, Byron and his team do an amazing job keeping our buildings up and going. So at least hopefully we'll not have any more water leaking through the ceiling. And that's all we have. Any questions? About 1 minute early.

It's a great presentation. Anyone who wonders what's going on in the dorm, we only made it through about a 3rd of the list. I get excited about a lot of these things because a number of these things on the list are resident-driven. In other words, there's things that residents are concerned about, and we actually hear them, and they wind up on the list, and they improve the community. So I think the fact that we were able to have that communication with our residents and it winds up on these lists, And then, like I said, there's 33 things on this list, so there's very much going on.

Okay, we might as well probably have our food, right?

Makes sense.

So let's—

assuming it's here.

It's here.

Open the door.

Okay, behind door number 1. Okay, so if we can have a volunteer for the prayer blessing on the food.

Great.

Chris is jumping up here. Wait for you to look at me.

Holy Father, we're grateful for the opportunity we have to gather, take of this food, and thank thee for it and for opportunities to do those things that we do within our city to Serve and strengthen and lift the community. That's the food to provide us energy and strength, help us in our meeting and the council meeting.

All go well.

My blessings and care will be upon each of us to feel and know how we serve and lift and strengthen others is a source of help and blessing in our lives for service that we render, plus Privilege of working with many in the community. So grateful for this day. May thy blessing upon it, in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Amen.

Chris.

Go ahead and restart.

Same place he did.

We're going to turn the podium to you.

You're going to bring us up with item 1.4, 501 update.

Okay, uh, well, Mayor and Council, and last week, uh, you might recall I did a presentation on 501s and what they are and the rules and regulations governing them. And at that time, at the end of that, uh, presentation, I was asked to come back and let you know how exactly other states have regulated. I think I mentioned at that meeting, there were a couple states that did require them to disclose their donors in some circumstances. So I was asked to come back with additional details on how they do that. And so I've gone back and done some additional research in the last— Since that meeting, and have found that actually there are quite a number of states that that do require 501s to disclose their donors in some circumstances. And the interesting thing is there, there may be a couple of states that directly target 501s. But mostly these regulations are more broadly enacted requirements that require any entity that makes political contributions of a certain type to disclose their donors. And those regulations just happen to catch 501s within their reach, as well as lots of other kinds of entities. So I actually found at least 7 states that, that have these kinds of regulations.

They're typically campaign finance laws.

For example, New York, New Jersey, let's see, Georgia, New Mexico, Illinois, Rhode Island and Massachusetts are all states that have enacted these campaign finance laws that impose requirements for 501s to disclose their donors. I'm certain that there are a number of other states that do this as well. I, I basically found these 7 states based on cases, litigation that had taken place where people challenged the laws that had been enacted in these states. Claiming that they violated the First Amendment right to free speech. And just basically ran out of time to go beyond just the 7 states, but I'm sure there are many others that do the same thing. So basically, the states that have enacted these regulations, they have kind of a common theme. Typically what they do These campaign finance laws, they state that if a certain entity, including 501s, if they expend a certain dollar amount, meet a certain dollar threshold on electioneering, or in other words, communications that advocate for a candidate in the election or an issue on the ballot, and they target the general public, and that these communications are made within a certain time period of an election, Very often that might be 60 to 90 days before an election date. And if they— then the donors would be required to be disclosed, the entity that makes those expenditures. So that might apply to things like if you're spending money on, say, a billboard or a mailer or a radio spot that's advocating for a certain candidate in an election. Or a ballot issue and you're meeting a certain dollar threshold, that might be $3,000, $10,000, $15,000, then you might have to disclose your donors that contributed amount that meets a certain threshold. And that again—

That would be any communication that costs money like emails, text messages. You also have to pay for those as a campaign. So it's kind of a campaign expense issue.

So yeah, they measure it based on the expenditure. So if you're spending $15,000 And, you know, I don't know, maybe in a lot of cases an email is free. I don't know.

Okay, I don't know.

If you're doing mass emails, maybe that costs. But yeah, you would look at the amount, the dollar amount that you're spending, see if it meets that threshold. So then again, there's also thresholds that apply to the donors that have to be disclosed. That has been as low as $250 in one state that I saw. as high as $10,000 in another state. So again, these regulations vary quite a bit in their scope and application. A common exception to these regulations are, is that if a donor to a 501 specifically designated that their contribution was not to be used as part of a political campaign, then that donor doesn't have to be disclosed.

So do they then show that donation? Do they have to show a trail that it was used for a specific purpose then?

Yeah, usually what happens is they, they say that it comes from a segregated account. So you might have an account that's a 501, might have an account that's for political communications and one that's not, that's going for the other purposes. So you might remember from last presentation, 501s, their primary purpose can't be political. They can— it can be substantial, but it can't be their primary purpose.

So, definition of the percentage of a primary purpose?

Typically, they say over 50%. Okay, so those are again the common elements that these campaign finance laws include to determine when a 501 might have to disclose its donors. So, again, each of these 7 states, I happened to come across them because I was researching case law. And so that means that, that these, each of these campaign finance laws had been challenged. And there had been lawsuits filed. And it was interesting that the, again, the, the claim of the plaintiffs was that these laws were violating their First Amendment rights. And In 4 of the cases, the court held that the disclosure laws were valid, they were legal, they passed constitutional muster, while in 2 of the cases, the court found that they were unconstitutional, that they violated the First Amendment.

And those were similar cases, you would say?

Yeah, similar. I mean, yeah, they differed in some respects, you know, again, based on the thresholds, the dollar amounts involved, things like that.

Maybe identifying information.

Yeah, those kinds of things. But the arguments, I think, were essentially the same. I mean, they differed a little bit, but I think that the general themes were the same. So, you know, it's not a question that's 100% settled out there in the legal world. But there's one of the cases, one of these 7 cases involved the 10th Circuit, which was literally just decided a few days ago. And if I searched for it at our last meeting, I wouldn't have found it because it hadn't been published yet. It hadn't come out in the days right after our last meeting. And it was a case out of New Mexico, involved New Mexico law, campaign finance disclosure law. And the court in that case said that it was constitutional. And of course, Utah is a part of the 10th Circuit. And so that is basically the governing law in the 10th Circuit right now. That doesn't mean that it's ironclad because somebody could raise a challenge that just changes the argument a little bit, or maybe the law is a little bit different, you know, and sometimes, a lot of times, courts come to a different result when the facts are a little bit different or the application is a little bit different. And given the fact that there's some other cases that have still found they're unconstitutional, I wouldn't say that it's ironclad, but it's pretty helpful, I guess you could say. It decides the law, at least for now, in the 10th Circuit.

And is this number 7 where they're saying contribute over $200,000 or more? Okay, so that's what has been kind of upheld by the circuit.

Yeah, not to get into the weeds too much, and maybe I shouldn't even go here, but technically the way And this is— this again just kind of goes to show how the facts in a certain case can differ and change the result. Probably New Mexico's election law didn't actually cover a 501 because they basically were talking— it covered entities whose primary purpose was to engage in political communications. And by definition, a 501 can't have as its primary purpose political communications or political activities. But I included that case because the reasoning was essentially the same. So I think that probably even if the law in New Mexico had included 501s, the outcome probably would have been the same.

But anyway, what happens if they exceed the 50% of 501s?

So the IRS can revoke their tax-exempt status. That's typically the remedy.

That's it.

Yeah.

And that will dissolve.

What's that?

They don't make them dissolve.

No, not to my knowledge. I haven't seen anything that suggests that. Everything that I've seen suggests that the remedy is that the IRS takes away their tax exemption, which means they basically turn into a PICC or a PAC.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the donations are not deductible, which basically kills it.

Well, 501, the donations are done.

Thank you.

That's right.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's typically what I mean. So, again, I think what this shows is that the research shows that there are, again, a lot of states that have, in the course of their campaign finance disclosure laws, have required 501s, as well as all other entities that engage in these political activities, require them to disclose their donors. Again, significant number of court decisions have upheld those regulations. And, and so my suggestion to the council is that if you're interested in seeing 501s be required to disclose their donors, that that's something that we might encourage the state to pursue. I think this is something that is best handled at the state level for a couple of reasons. I think that, first of all, that seems to be how it's done nationwide. It's typically done at the state level. I think that having a campaign finance law at the state level carries more weight, more credibility than potentially a local law would have. I think the state is typically in a better position to enforce and to regulate these kinds of things. And again, you know, these laws seem to be the subject of litigation quite often. And so I think the state would be in a better position to handle any legal challenges that might arise from it. It seems to be an area that is a subject of litigation quite often.

So—

Let me ask a question about that. I agree that the state would be The best place that they're going to do some election control. I just pulled this out just because this is what's going on in the, in the Daily Herald. You know, it's talking about Warren's polarized municipal elections. It talks about dark money found. That sounds pretty interesting. Article about the dark money. There's no dark money found. Yeah, the point I want to make about this is, so there's a lot of confusion. This is being talked about in our newspaper on a regular basis. You know, the residents are going, what's going on here? Because in this article, I think, but they don't even describe darkroom. So my question is, what if, um, because the state, you know, We can take a year or 2 or whatever to do all that, if it even goes anywhere. But couldn't you just, on the forms that we already fill out, have something simple like another box added for candidates? Because we're disclosing our contributions, everything. So you just check a box and say, I have received dark money, or I've received contributions from a 501. Well, I don't know if I have. Uh, or I haven't. Can we just check a box like that? And then, and then it's— I mean, we're not going into all the hassle of figuring this all out. We're just letting the residents know if the person says I received this or I haven't, I don't even know.

Yeah, they already list where they're coming from though.

Yeah, I mean, a couple things. Number one, a 501 is not allowed to make a contribution, campaign contribution, to a candidate. They're only allowed to make indirect You're only allowed to participate indirectly through what we call independent expenditures.

That's what I'm saying is they would— a candidate would identify if a 501 is using money to help influence their campaign from other expenditures. And they could say, I don't know, or—

Yeah.

Yeah.

And again, you know, the word independent means that they can't have coordinated those expenditures with the candidate themselves. You know, they couldn't have done it in cooperation or collaboration with the candidates.

So let me throw out something else then. So this survey that somebody in the paper did seems to be back to a 5-vote lead. We don't know because we don't know. Um, but that would, you know, affect races. It would affect certain candidates depending on which side they're on, on that. So that would be a way that that would be affecting things. A candidate could say, yes, I benefit from that, or no, or I don't know. Yeah, I'm giving them a ton of latitude. I'm just trying to have people identify if they're receiving any of this help or if they're not, because going back to what the residents are saying right now, we're just in this mush of what is dark money.

Yeah. So right now, as you know, candidates are required to disclose all of the contributions that they've received, all the donations they've received, as well as their own expenditures.

And in-kind.

Including in-kind. Yeah, that's correct. And so, you know, to go beyond that, I think, would be kind of ambiguous, a little bit difficult for a candidate to disclose. Has somebody else advocated or spent money to help my election? You know, they may not know. They may not. I don't know. That's a difficult one.

That's why I'm saying just say yes, no, or I don't know. At least you're acknowledging that, you know, that way a candidate is acknowledging what they think is going on.

Yeah, and it might require them to do some research, you know, who's spending money, who's putting billboards up on my behalf, or who's putting a radio ad out on my behalf, and what's the nature of that.

I mean, that's—

that, that it would impose that additional burden.

What happens once And you say yes.

What's that?

It only has to happen one time to click the yes box. You don't have to indicate every— you don't have to have knowledge.

Research.

Right?

Yeah.

But you—

yeah, in an email, if you've seen a flyer on a doorstep, Or there's been a text message from a 501, then I think that's what you're talking about, right?

I'm just saying, I mean, we do, you know, 2 or 3 different disclosures through the course of the campaign. So you just have these 3 boxes along with all the other stuff you're disclosing on there. Just no, or I don't know, but at least you're acknowledging. So it's not this, you know, Mysterious. Who knows what it is? But at least each candidate's acknowledging, yeah, this is being spent on my behalf, or no, it's not.

And I think it comes back to what we said in our very first meeting. What are these 501s primarily used for? You can Google it and it says primarily for negative campaigning. You know, that's why it's the dark money, because it's the—

who, who—

no one has to put their name to it.

Is that true, or is that just something that Google came up with? I mean, I Google stuff all the time and it's not always accurate.

Is that true?

Well, it was from the Civics Project. When I say Google it, it was from the Civics Project.

So I, I don't know.

I don't have any information or data on that one way or the other.

We have 3 minutes to decide.

I think we— if we don't, I would be in favor of an ordinance that, um, you know, minimal whatever at the checkbox. I wanted more than that, Mayor, but I guess I could, I could go for that. I just feel like there needs to be some kind of I know a number of years ago, Mayor Brunst, when he won, there was a significant amount, over $100,000, that came from the National Association of Realtors into that campaign. And when that was disclosed, vote disclosed, it made a difference. The voters didn't appreciate, you know, that as it was disclosed to them that it came through the National Association to the Utah Central Association to the Utah County. Association of Realtors to that particular candidate. And the scuttlebutt I'm hearing, you know, everything is we just want to know so then we can decide. So, you know, to me it's just about transparency. It's not about saying— I mean, I like these specifics actually here, but I think that that's kind of a big key.

Well, and I guess my point is I don't think what I suggested is the be-all and end-all. I'm just saying, if the choices are we don't do anything, or the choices we have the state do it, maybe it takes 2 or 3 or 5 years. This would be a stopgap until somebody else does something more meaningful. But just to, just to try and bring some, you know, organization to this so people can understand what's going on.

I'm in favor of it.

I mean, can we add a box?

The city of—

I mean, if it's, if it's a checkbox, if it's 3, if it's just 3 boxes and you check it, I don't think there's no harm, no foul. You know, if you have an idea, I don't have a problem with that.

You know where the money's coming from.

Technically, there's not, not even a— just you're acknowledging so residents can look at that and they can say, This person says that they're, they're, they are accepting it or they're not. And if somebody is accepting it and they're not checking the box, then that becomes an issue. But we're not saying that it's, you know, there's not a penalty.

There's not—

this is just informational. It's actually trying to encourage candidates to provide that information.

I don't think it's in the form of a penalty.

If it said check the box, then I had no problem.

I mean, okay, so I talked with the people that you're talking about after our last meeting. I'm like, so what's happening? Why are we hearing this word dark money? Are you involved in any dark money? And this is— this basically, they said all of our donations are fully disclosed. There's no dark money. Stronger Together Community has never contributed to political campaigns or candidates in Orem. Stronger Together Community never intends to contribute to political efforts, and it was organized to maintain and direct their members' efforts to support local schools and community groups. So—

Is that the 501?

Yes, that's the 501. And to me, it feels like there's much ado about nothing. I mean, they've done nothing illegal. They've done nothing wrong. They've created this organization To help direct the members and members' efforts to support local schools and community groups.

You know where the survey came from?

Yeah, it came from the, the other one, the PAC.

Back then, that—

yeah.

So, but let me ask you, because there was an event this week where it was a meet the candidates event, and tacked on to that event was bring a can of food, bring something for the food pantries. Which is the mission of the 501 Stronger Together community. So there is one example of an in-kind campaign event that they have done. You're assuming that they were doing that for anyone, anyone's candidate.

But it was—

We weren't invited. I wasn't invited to it.

If you want to bring some donations to help the poor, you can do that too. I'm not gonna speak for them, but I don't think in any way was that done to support a candidate. You bet it was. Or any campaign.

You bet it was. There were 4 candidates that were encouraged to come. They didn't invite all the candidates, only 4. My guess is that will show up on their political donations form for their PAC.

Your guess.

But you don't know either. And I don't. That's why I'm bringing this up. That's why I'm wanting to say, we know what's happening now so we can have that transparency. Transparency will know when their donations are reported. I haven't seen— I've looked into this and I haven't seen any evidence at all. How can you say you've looked into it? They have— they don't have to disclose it. I asked them. You asked them? Okay, that's fine.

But what evidence do you— what evidence do you have that they've done something?

I have no evidence. I haven't accused them of anything.

I think you're in the city of Reeseville.

I'm—

Last time we filed incorrectly.

That was completely false.

You did file incorrectly. The Lieutenant Governor made you— well, it made you include the in-kind donations on your last one, and some of those donations were made in May and June before the first disclosure was required. So it was done incorrectly then.

Well, that's, that's news to me because when I talked to Theresa, she said everything was fixed. So my point is—

No, no, no, no, I'm not going to let that end with that. That's not what happened. That was the Stronger Together in-kind donations were not disclosed during the 2023 elections until December.

You made it sound like that we had filed.

No, I didn't. Yes, roll the tape. I said I'm not blaming—

I had people calling me and asking me—

Roll the tape. Okay, they can call you, but roll the tape.

There was confusion that came from that.

I can't help if they don't watch the video. We can't help if people don't understand the difference between a C3 and And that is not in another meeting. Well, they have to watch the meeting. Okay, but I feel like we're using our political influence to chase conspiracy theories that have— there is no conspiracy theory here. And I'm sorry, Tom said that last week. This is not— this is a desire to establish more transparency in Orem because we have a brand new political entity called the 501 that we haven't had in Orem before.

It's not transparency or Conspiracy, anything.

There's no—

I mean, we've had PICs, we've had PACs, everything's fully disclosed.

Uh, well, from the outside it looks like we're using our political influence to go after an organization within the community, and that's not a great use of taxpayer funds.

That's not what we're doing.

We're doing—

there's an intensity in, in the—

in our— there's never been a public war that's injected into Orem politics, ever.

It is not part of Orem politics.

No, it very much is. We can't tell. It's a PAC.

They haven't filed any reports.

We don't know.

We don't know what. And so we're just trying to figure out. Yeah, I mean, there was claims on dark money.

They have spent less than $2,000. Let me clarify something. Claims of dark money. There's no claims. I'm saying the dark money.

So what were the little pieces of paper?

Finish talking, please. I'm trying to answer your question and you're interrupting. The dark money label is a known label for 501. I'm not accusing anyone of dark money. I'm just saying that's what 501 donors are referred to as, dark money.

That's not how 501s—

That's a definition that has been brought up in the campaign to try and—

No, no, no, no, it was— I'm telling you, nationwide.

I'm talking about locally here. The handout that was given when all the— meet the candidates.

Because nationally, everyone is dark money.

Every person who contributed.

Having the state look into that is excellent. The state? Not—

it is not the flyer.

Why would you push back so hard against having a box on the thing that says, I'm using 501 money, or I'm not, or I don't know?

None of them can use 501 money. They can't get money directly to candidates. Sure they can. Steve just said there are ways that they support candidates in elections.

Yeah, through independent—

But they can't give it to the candidate. No, we're not talking about that. That's not what we're saying.

They're using it to— Said that in other ways to sell what they want.

I feel like we're on a witch hunt. We have no evidence to suggest that we need to— This is not about that group. Tom was the one who brought up that last night.

He brought up their PAC.

Exactly, 100%. He talked about their PAC, and that's part of the confusion. They have a PAC and they're being used through the PAC. They have a 501. The minute that 501 became apparent in our community, people started talking about 501s are often called dark money organizations nationally.

I mean, all you have to do is Google our residents.

What—

who's on the first thing that comes up?

Which residents?

This is not like a mystery or a conspiracy. This is the question. We have a new entity that's involved in politics, and we should be able to recognize where that money's being contributed to.

So why not add transparency to that particular entity, as these states that are doing this? We are saying, as a municipality, we feel like we would like to just ask them to report when they get donations, submit a report. And disclose where that comes from and not submit a report in December after the election is over. Do— and, and maybe put this $250 like New Mexico did.

You know, my issue is I don't think we have time to solve all these problems now, but I would like to see a longer-term solution. And so that's where I go back to just a simple, I'm benefiting from this, or I'm not, or I don't know.

And so, I mean, quite honestly, so just want the discussion to stop. We have— we present a solution.

And I have it in my estimation of all the, what, hour and a half of city resource time in our board session spent on an entity that has not had any issues, and you haven't had any claims that there's anything wrong.

Your suspicions of dark money have brought us to a point where we're wasting a lot of resources.

It's not suspicions. Once again, can I please state that again? It is a definition. I have no suspicions. I'm not saying—

Pushing an issue.

I'm simply reciting a definition, a well-known definition. A definition.

It's not the definition.

And you know what? Doesn't matter. A, the, how many do you want? I mean, it's—

you both—

So you keep pushing this dark money issue.

They're calling it dark money.

But the dark money issue is something that you're trying to pose into—

I'm not. You were the one who said it came up. The residents brought it forward. So we're responding to the residents.

Which residents?

Some residents.

There's one right here.

Yeah, the residents.

And you know what, that one's on the other side, right? Got them on both sides.

Found that—

that's probably brought up because dark money was discussed in 2 or 3 of our other work sessions that we've had.

So, well, dark money found— I mean, this is—

this is a great discussion, but we are 10 minutes late already for our council meeting. So do we want to continue this? Are we going to get to somewhere constructive, or can we push it? Yeah, let's decide if we want to put the boxes on there.

I have no problem putting a box on it because it's, it's easy.

doing the transparency with the law.

Being transparent.

It's a simple solution. There's no legislative anything. It's just a simple solution.

It adds transparency. I do not support it at this time. I might in the future, but today, right now, in the heat of the moment, I do not support it.

What?

The heat of the moment?

What?

What?

We've been talking for 10 minutes before the council meeting.

First time I've heard this situation.

My feeling would be I would support Steve's counsel and his guidance. Let the state deal with it.

Um, so I'm, I'm not in favor of any action.

I'm gonna disagree that that's what Steve said.

Okay, so Chris, where are you at? I'm not in favor.

What does Steve say this time?

The 4 of you who are the ones donated to this organization, let's just clarify again.

Again, that's nobody's—

4 of you who have donated to this, uh, organization and whom your last campaign Gave you $24,000 in in-kind donations are now voting against a— have you donated to a C4?

I haven't donated to a C4.

I've never donated to a C4.

Donated to a C3.

You guys are pulling in the C3. You're, you're accusing us of accusing them, and so they're mushy.

All these guys reported their stuff.

Totally.

They even asked them—

they did it.

I even asked them for their bank statements, and they showed it to me, right? So, Mayor, I make a motion that we adjourn this meeting and go into our regular schedule.

I second. I, I, yeah, I think the mayor, as the one running the meeting, gets to decide if the money's— you don't just do it by a motion. You don't have to, don't have to take the motion on the floor.

Stephen, you want to go ahead?

The mayor does need to recognize somebody to, to have the floor to make the motion.

So I think what we do—

I mean, it's—

I mean, from what I'm seeing, um, it's a 4-3 vote against.

Of course.

So we can continue this conversation another time when we have more time, um, because we're definitely out of time. We're going to have time.

Well, I'd like to make a motion that we, um—

You haven't been recognized, just like we haven't.

Can I make a motion before I'm recognized?

Technically, no. Technically, the mayor needs to—

Mayor, would you recognize my motion? I'd like to make a motion that we, um, review this in our city council meeting. Can we do that? How do we— how do we now pull this up on our desk?

So, so sorry, I, I, I may have misled a little bit. So technically, in a work session, we're not supposed to make motions or make decisions on final, uh, actions.

Your recommendation—

you can give directions. You make procedural motions like adjourn to the regularly scheduled meeting. But you can give direction like you've said, we want to do— put this on a box, or we don't want to put it on a box. You can do that, but not through a formal motion.

And okay, so then maybe our next meeting, can we put on the agenda for our next meeting? That's my motion. Everyone, our city council agenda for a vote in our next meeting. I will give Jen time to think about it, and then we can vote on it as a council officially.

I'm fine with it.

Whatever.

I'm fine with it too.

Just the other 4 don't want to do it.

So the other—

you 4 don't want to have another discussion in public? We have used so much staff time and resources. No, there's no staff time and resources. This is not about that.

Steve has spent how many hours working on this.

But that's what we do, right? This is at the expense of how many other things?

Let's move on to the—

Yeah, it's— I mean, that's a straw argument. Um, anyway, I think we'll adjourn this. Making progress. I think everyone kind of understands where everyone's at. Um, let me ask a question.

So did we take a vote? I mean, I guess it's 4-3 to put it on our next city council agenda.

We don't vote in here.

Well, it maybe been put on the agenda, maybe won't.

Maybe will, maybe won't. So then how does that get decided, Tom?

Mayor prepares an agenda 2 weeks before council members can give direction to staff to either put something on the agenda or to not have something on.

If it's not on the agenda, then we know what for, because we have 3 who want to put it on the agenda. Yeah, I'm satisfied with that element.

Okay, so we need to move forward.

So, they're right behind us.

Been waiting.

Yeah, they've got another meeting to go to, so we're putting them in a little bit of a jeopardy.

Are they in front?

Yeah.

Okay, so I guess we'll introduce the guys.

And then I would encourage everyone to take a deep breath and step back and Good to have healthy debate.

Um, but we've got some things.

One of the things we're going to do is have a, uh, uh, I'm gonna read a statement on Charlie Kirk, and we're gonna have a moment of silence, and then we're gonna move on to the rest of the things because unfortunately what happened in our city is something that I want to recognize. So anyway, we'll adjourn this meeting.

Oh, she's down here.

Sorry, Bryce.

The teriyaki stayed in the case. Yeah, just plug in.

Crazy.

Presentation, right, sir?

Happy to be on the, uh, the spectator seat.

Oh, there you go.

Don't take my cupcake.

Are you the new police chief?

Yes, Dave Schallenberg.

I've got no fun.

Well, that's not explained.

That's the actual link.

So we're in a bad spot.

Probably just everywhere.

Or look at it on your PC. Test, test. Test, test.

I'd like to call this meeting to order and welcome you all to our city council meeting tonight. We apologize that we're running a little bit late. Uh, we had more to talk about in our work meeting than we had time to to complete it. So I apologize for that. We'll start out with an invocation, uh, from Spencer Woolley and a Pledge of Allegiance from Ray Lynn Woolley. And Chris Kilpack invited these folks to come. So if you'd like to introduce them.

Thank you very much, Mayor. So, uh, the, the Woolleys are a wonderful Orem family, been here long, long, long time, and they raised their family here and, uh, Spencer Woolley is a business executive in the healthcare industry here in Orem, and he and his wife Raylan have raised their families here.

Good friends.

Just wanted to have an opportunity for them to participate in this civic opportunity to help all of us begin our meeting.

Thank you. Our Father in heaven, we begin this Orem City Council meeting this evening addressing thee with gratitude for this wonderful place in which we live, this world, this country, This state and this city. We're grateful, Father, for the freedoms that we are blessed with, the freedoms to worship, act, speak, and do as we may without fear. We're grateful, Father, for those that lead this country, that lead this state and this city. We pray that thy Spirit may be upon them. We pray that thy peace may be upon them and all of the citizens of this city, of this country, state, and world. We're saddened, Father, by the events that have occurred in our city recently with the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and we pray that peace may be found, that understanding may be found, and that evil things like this may not happen again in this world, in this city, in this state. Now, Father, we invite thy presence into this meeting so peace and understanding may occur, that those that want to speak may speak their minds The way that they wish, so that the words they say may be understood. We pray that those of the council may be able to understand and speak also with words that can be understood. We pray for peace in the hearts of the leaders of this world, the leaders of this country. We pray that they may be guided to help this world be a better place. We pray that we as individuals and citizens also may be guided so we may make our individual places and this world a better place as well. And this we pray for in the beloved name of our Savior, thy Son, even Jesus Christ. Amen.

Please rise for the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, I've got some things I'd like to share with you. Um, after we had our last council meeting I had no idea what was going to happen in our city in the following weeks. And just going through that experience with all of you, um, has been unbelievable. We had our, uh, candlelight vigil that we put on, uh, for the city, uh, so we could come together. And that came together in about 7 hours. And I know some of you attended it, but that was probably one of the saddest feelings I've ever had in my life, to look out on that crowd of about 3,000 people and have them see their faces and see what they were going through. And so we've, we've talked about this a lot. Actually, after this, I met with all the mayors of Utah County. And we actually all came together in a statement that we put out to the media. And that was really something to see, a group of 22, um, of our mayors come together for that. I'm not going to read that tonight because that, that's out there. But I've just got some comments I'd like to make myself to share with you, and then I'd like to ask for a moment of silence after I do that. Charlie Kirk was taken from us. While doing what defined his life: speaking openly, engaging in dialogue, and trusting in the power of persuasion over violence. His murder reverberated around the entire country and actually around the entire world, but it shook Orem to its core. Charlie Kirk was a husband, a father, a friend, and a man who believed that freedom of speech and the free exchange of ideas were sacred to the American experiment. I never had the honor of meeting Charlie personally, yet I cannot ignore how many lives he touched here in Utah and across the nation. I've spoken with many residents who heard him at Utah Valley University, students who followed his work, and families who admired the strength of his convictions. Even for those who— of us who only knew him by his reputation, or watched his videos online, his passion and presence left an unmistakable mark. Charlie built his life around the conviction that words are stronger than weapons. From a young age, he chose to dedicate himself to the work of persuasion. He founded an organization called Turning Point USA that grew into one of the largest student movements in the country. He traveled to hundreds of campuses, large and small, because he believed that the future of America would be decided by how young people understood freedom and responsibility. He could have chosen to speak only to friendly audiences, but that was not his way. Charlie stood before crowds that often disagreed with him, and he welcomed the challenge. He trusted that truth presented clearly and courageously would always speak louder than intimidation. That courage was not bluster. It was rooted in his faith, in his belief in the American founding, and his love for family. Charlie often spoke about his wife Erica and their 2 children. For all his public work, he never let anyone doubt that his most important role was at home, was as a husband and father. Those who knew him best will tell you that his energy, his drive, and his sense of mission were all shaped by the love he carried for his family and his country. What made Charlie so distinctive in our public life Was not just his ideas, but his willingness to live them out. He believed in civil discourse at a time when our culture often dismisses it. He sat down with opponents and critics, not because he expected to convert them in a single conversation, but because he believed that listening and responding with respect was itself a form of victory. He understood that freedom means little if we refuse to engage with those who see the world differently. That's why his loss is so painful. What happened in Orem was more than the murder of one man. It was an attack on the freedoms that sustain us as Americans: the right to speak, the right to assemble, and the right to disagree peacefully without fear. Charlie embodied those freedoms. He demonstrated that a free people must rely on words and ideas, never on violence or threats. His death is a reminder that liberty is always fragile, always in need of defense, and always worth the courage it demands. As the mayor of Orem, I carry the sobering responsibility of presiding over a city where Charlie's life was tragically cut short. For days after the attack, we worked around the clock with law enforcement, the mayors through the valley, and with federal officials. Many of us slept no more than 3 hours a night. Driven by the urgency to see justice done and to bring peace to a grieving community. The responsibility has weighed heavily on me, but nothing compared to the weight carried by Charlie's wife, his children, and his family. If our sleepless nights helped bring his killer to justice, then every ounce of that effort was worth it. Orem is Family City, USA. We are a place of faith, resilience, and unity. We are more familiar with parades and festivals, with concerts and Friday Night Football, than with national headlines of violence. To have Charlie's life end here cut us deeply, precisely because it felt so out of place in a city like ours. And yet perhaps it's fitting that his life and his example are now linked to a community that defines itself by family. For all his public work, Charlie must be proud of being a husband, I'm Father. The best way we can honor his legacy and his memory is to carry forward the values he lived by. To teach— let us teach our children that disagreement is not a cause for hatred, but an opportunity to learn. Let us show them that persuasion is stronger than intimidation, that respect is stronger than contempt, and that life itself is sacred. Let us model it in our own lives. The courage to speak with conviction and the humility to listen with grace. Charlie Kirk lived boldly, and he died as he lived, engaging the next generation in dialogue. His example will not fade if we choose to follow it. His influence will continue to shape families, communities, and this nation for years to come. May God bless Charlie's family. May he bless the people of Orem. And may he bless the United States of America. Thank you. If we can just have a moment of silence. Thank you. All right, and we should just all go home now. Um, we're going to go to item 7.2. These are remarks on the Constitution from Bill Peterson, Post 72 Quartermaster.

How y'all doing?

Chris, how you doing?

Hey, I'm Bill Johnson, prior service, 34 years with the Army.

You need to speak into the mic.

You can't hear me?

But I don't—

other people watching.

Okay, how you doing? I'm Master Sergeant Johnson, retired, United States Army, 34 years. And I, I'm here, I'm going to talk to you about the oath that we all take. How many here are prior service? You guys, thank you. I got something for you guys.

Thank you.

So in the military, we take 2 different oaths. There's a commissioned officer's oath And there is the enlisted oath. So the oath of enlistment, when a soldier takes it, It's not just for their 3 years or 6 years. It is an oath for life. So when we all take an oath for whatever positions we're in, it's not temporary. That's forever. And so when I take the oath— and so I took the enlisted oath. Let me get my glasses on. And the enlisted oath is, I— you state your full name— William Johnson, do solemnly swear to affirm Uh, that I support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, so help me God. And that is something that we all take. And I think it's something that I don't think a lot of people take, whatever oaths they're with. I don't know if they understand that's for life and that's to support and to, you know, do what we have to do that is right for our people. You know, our law enforcement, they take an oath. It's an awesome oath. And that's the— they're there to help us. We're— and we're all here to support our friends, our families, whoever needs help. And so that's what I'm here to talk about. And I think, uh, you all understand that it's pretty important to people like me. And so I'm part of the American Legion, Post 72, and we still go out and we do a lot of volunteer stuff, support, uh, I work at Orem Lowe's. We go out and help a lot of disabled vets. Lowe's pays for us to go. I would do it for free, and I've done it for free. And so anyway, thank you guys for your time.

Thank you. I will say that I think it's interesting that this is a very short Oath of enlistment, but this is the oath of enlistment, and that the number one thing in here is, I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States. That's pretty significant. Let's move to number 3, 7.3, Constitution Month Awards. Pete Wolfley, if you'd like to present those.

Okay, thank you, Mayor and Council. As you know, September is Constitution Month, and here in Orem, we— this is our 3rd year celebrating it. And one of the things we've done each of the last 3 years is have a Constitution Month art contest. And so we have a couple of winners here tonight, and so we want to bring them up one by one and celebrate their art that celebrates the Constitution. So the first family is the Hunsaker family. If they're here, would they please come up? Come on up here, kids, and stand off to the side here. So we have Nathan, Hannah, Walter, and Abigail. And what I appreciated about their art is that it celebrates our First Amendment to freedom of religion. In some countries, art like this Wouldn't be allowed. Come on up, kids. And so this, uh, who did the one, the house or the church on the right, on the left here?

Oh, wow. Good job.

That's an awesome picture. And then who did the one on the right?

Right here.

Good job.

Let's take a look at the other art.

Uh, here's 2 from maybe the older kids. Okay. These are awesome. So congratulations. We have a certificate for you now, and then we'll mail you your cash prize. So thank you so much for participating. Awesome job celebrating one of the most important parts of the Constitution. Our next, our next winner is Melody Crockett. Is she here? Peter, make sure they know we're going to have a photo at the end, so they should stick around. Yeah, don't get too comfy. We're going to get a photo. And I think you're a 2-time winner, right?

You've done this before.

So I feel like your art skills have come a long ways in a year. And this is an amazing thing that she, Melody, painted.

Do you want to talk about it?

Tell us what your inspiration was.

No?

Well, regardless, it's great. So thank you very much.

Good job.

And then our final one is Shawna Stowers. Is she here? And I feel like we can't let you off as easy as the kids. So do you want to tell us about your piece?

Yeah. So the moment that I got the call, I had a daughter at UVU, she works there and she was going to go, and another daughter who was on lockdown. And it was Such a beautiful moment to know that even when things are really scary here, they're really not because we are in the hands of a God who loves all of us. And so this one is titled A Patriot's Homecoming. And if you notice the people coming, it's all kinds of different experiences on earth who gave their life for a country. And a cause that was greater than themselves. And I don't know, just, I love this country. I love God, and I know that we're going to be okay.

That's all.

Okay, let's have all of our winners come up and we'll get a picture. And then thank you for participating in this. I feel like art is a great way to express these strong feelings that we have for our country and for the Constitution.

Constitution.

So thank you all. Let's just come out here in front.

We'll have the council stay up top and you guys be down on the bottom, and then I'll grab my camera.

Yeah, come over this way a little bit.

This way.

A little bit more.

Okay, here we go.

1, 2, 3. Okay, thank you and congratulations.

Thank you, Pete, and thank you to the artists. And, uh, all the art was great. Uh, that last painting is incredible. So that just captures so much. That would be awesome. Let's go to item 7.4. Here we have a legislative report. We have 2 of our representatives that are going to join us for a moment here, uh, Lisa Shepherd and David Shallenberger, and we've just invited them to give us some updates on what they're working on, uh, and anything that affects Orem. So yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

So Orem has 4 representatives up in the House. There's 75 of us, and Representative Shepherd and I are 2 of the freshman group, the largest freshman group to go in in the last 20 years. So, and we're unique in that we are the only representatives to represent both Orem and Provo together, to spill over into both of those cities. So we're excited to be here tonight. I want to just take a minute and introduce myself and my first session. So I grew up here in Orem. I have 6 kids. They're split between the Foothill Elementary and Canyon View Junior High. Uh, will be future Tigers, hopefully. And, uh, um, we just finished our first session. Our session is in January through March, covers 6 weeks, 45 days, goes very fast. During that time, we voted on like 800 bills, so it goes fast. And, uh, um, about 2 weeks in, I got an email— sort of funny— I got an email saying, I'm so disappointed in your vote. I mean, you're in your district I'm so disappointed on your vote on this. I thought you were going to be more moderate. Look like I'm going to have to find somebody else more moderate next time. And then about 3 emails later, I got an email that said, I'm so disappointed on your vote on this bill. I thought you were going to be a lot more conservative than you are. I'm going to have to find someone a lot more conservative next time. So that was sort of my introduction that you're not going to make everyone happy, and hopefully those 2 votes cancel each other out. Um, but our first session, we were encouraged to really focus on getting to know the people and the process. It's like drinking not just from a fire hose, like from 3 fire hoses, and a lot of information. But I feel like we did some productive stuff.

I—

some of my bills, I was able to help work with our emergency dispatch in Provo and help pass a couple bills that helps streamline and make the 911 dispatch center more efficient and cooperate more statewide with more of our emergency resources statewide and help make that a better unit there. So super excited about that.

And some—

as I look forward into the future, some of the things I'm really starting to focus on are our water resources, our Transportation. I'm working with MAG right over here that helps plan the roads and works with UDOT across the state. I'm working with the water resources, helping with the Great Salt Lake and the Colorado River. And we're blessed to have the Central Utah Water Conservation District in our city. So working closely with them, and, and I know you guys have worked with them on their project that's going up here on the mouth of the canyon and big project. So thank you for your help on that. Um, and then just the growth of our, our cities— cybersecurity, data privacy. I've learned that with our cybersecurity here in Utah, we have 1.5 billion attempts to penetrate our network systems across the state every single day. So, so it's crazy the amount of stuff that— so lots of issues going on, but that's just a glimpse into one of the— some of the stuff we're working on. One of the areas I've talked with Mayor Young about and with, uh, Council Member Jangell is our wildlife management area up here in the Tempe foothills. Uh, is one of the— as we go through the legislative process, we pass our bills. Sometimes they're great, sometimes they need tweaking. This was a comprehensive bill, lots of information in it. Part of it needs tweaking, and we all realized this once we started seeing signs pop up saying you need a fishing license to go hike up here. You're like, wait a second, that doesn't make sense. So, uh, been working with Senator Stratton, who's also from Orem, on tweaking that portion of the wildlife management bill so that we can keep hiking, biking, using our foothills, the areas around the state, but also, uh, be educated and use those areas for wildlife when they need to. This is specifically a, uh, a cared spot in the winter for the wildlife to come down and use that as a nesting area. So being able to use that as a multi-purpose area, so sort of an area that touches Orem but it also impacts and uses many areas throughout the state. So excited to work with you guys as we move forward. I'm going to turn the time over to Representative Shepherd and let her, uh, talk about her stuff.

Thank you, Representative Schallenberger. He's an awesome rep. You guys should be happy to have him. And I am honored to serve Southwest Orem and our shared constituencies, because you're all citywide, aren't you? That's right. So we have shared constituency there. House District 61, the Orem borders would be if you were standing at the south West corner of the mall and you looked all the way down University Parkway and then also all the way down State Street, everything in Orem that touches the light is in House District 61, plus most of the lake and a great section of West Provo. So being a freshman, wow, that's quite a— you guys understand it when you were here first, right? You get it. But what I love love about your organization here is that you have maybe 2 months, 2 years to talk about an issue. We get about 2 minutes on the floor, and it is pretty crazy, I guess would be the best way to put it. I serve on Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice. Thank you to our Orem City Police, and welcome to our new chief. And I also sit on Government Operations for the interim committee. And I am on Revenue and Taxation. And so I get to look at all those fun things. I know I'm missing some committee that I'm not telling you about, but there's lots of them. One of the favorite things I'm getting to do right now is be on the Organized Crime Committee and get to take a look at what's really happening. And I don't think it's that pretty, to be honest. And we have concerns right here in Utah County, even in our city. So I just want you to be aware that my eyes are watching for these things, and I'm happy to partner up with Orem Police and Provo Police because I represent both cities. As Representative Schallberger mentioned, there are 3 top bills in my view last year. I would say that my bill that I passed is probably number 3. And that bill—

of course I'm going to say that, right?

I'm not going to say it's the best bill because I'm going to tell about the top 2 bills and then I'll move on. My bill is one that each one of you that filed this year, you recognize that you had to submit a conflict of interest statement prior to your actual filing or at the exact same time, right? And that was my bill. And the whole purpose in that is because I believe, and so do my colleagues, because we voted for it just about all the way through the House was unanimous, and there were 2 senators who voted against it. But everyone else thought that transparency in elections is important, and especially that if you have a conflict of interest, shouldn't the voters know before they elect you instead of 30 days after? And so that's something that, you know, that I am— it's very important to me that we are very transparent as candidates as well as elected officials. The number one bill that I believe was firefighters and protecting firefighters and their cancer and the ability for screenings and treatment. That's, I believe, the number one bill we passed. Number 2 bill, which I am once again getting the hair standing up on my arms just thinking about it, was one of the first votes that I can— that had any significant moments for me, which is when Representative Gwynn sat there in front of the committee, Law Enforcement Committee, and asked us to pass a bill that if you're caught with— is it a gram? Now I'm forgetting the number— a significant amount of fentanyl, you're going to prison. And that to me is extremely important, knowing some of the things that, that I know and that your police force will know here that happens in Orem. And I appreciate the fact that we live in such a safe community despite a few events that have happened that are devastating. I really appreciate that. And just want to also report that I went to a public safety conference just recently, and with Representative Clancy— if you know who Representative Clancy is, Provo detective— and some others. And it is just great to be able to go and just look at what's happening and ideas that we can pass to them about what we're doing right here in Utah and what maybe we can learn from them. Thank you.

Thank you.

So if you guys have any questions, we'd love to talk with you. I know we're already behind schedule, so we'd love to talk with you offline. I'd like to point out that, uh, in the House chambers, right above the speaker, it says Vox Populi, the people's house, right? The people's voice. And so we're excited to continue to work with the entire City Council, with the city manager, on issues that are important to Utah and really Really, the people here in this room and with our city. So, if all you guys have issues, please, let's talk and see what we can do to make this a better place. So, thank you.

Okay, thank you, Lisa and David. We appreciate you guys coming and updating us. And you will, you will be hearing from us going forward because we always have things we're working with the legislature on. So, thank you. Okay, next up we've got item 7.5. This is a report from the Library Advisory Commission. Bryce Merrill.

Mayor, Council, thank you, uh, for your time today. I'm joined by Katrina Brittner, who serves as our Library Advisory Commission chair right now, and we have several other of our members with us today. In fact, if you don't mind asking them to stand just so they can be recognized. Christine, Lorraine, Nancy, Angela, and Karina are all with us today.

And Matt.

We have had an incredibly busy year at the library. It's just been an awesome experience, and I am extremely grateful for the Advisory Commission that we have right now. They've guided us through a couple of major decisions. As we have adjusted budgets, we have looked to increase— specifically, one of the biggest things that we have done is look to increase our collection development budget and increase the investment in our digital library resources. It's not as simple a process as it seems as we look, you know, how do we allocate these tax dollars and make sure that we're delivering the impact. And so we've got an incredible advisory commission. I'm just going to start with a brief overview video of what What's been happening, and then I'll turn it over to Katrina for a few more comments after that.

Um, also would like to thank the library staff that we work with as a commission. Bryce, Merrill, some of the others, and forgive me if I'm forgetting them. I don't know if people are here, but that have come and helped educate us on the commission as to what's going on at the library, decisions that have to be made. And there's a balancing act that goes on there for sure. So I just, I feel I want to give a shout out to Julie Heckert, Jamie Bartlett, Sharon Butters, Meg Flinders-Pay, Mike Smith, Shannon Montez de Oca, and Holly Grierson. Hopefully I didn't forget any, but they are— they have been key in keeping us up to date on what's going on in the library. And especially, we've been impressed as we've seen what's going on, and they are still functioning. They are keeping this open for the patrons of Orem to come in. And just to give you an idea, this is just this week. What you can find at the library. Puppets, storytime, music and movement, toddler tales, bouncing babies, hora de cuentos. You can watch Superman II if you feel up to it. There's a clinic on costumes and cosplay. You can learn about radon risks in your home and home safety. There's a Lego lab. You can also watch the movie The Conversation. I think that's from the '70s. Go to the Common Threads art show. and you can go to a comedy show. That's just this week at the Orem Public Library. And I will close just with saying again, thank you for supporting the library. We know this is such a key— it's really kind of the heart of Orem here. And Mary McNair, who's an author, she said libraries are the heart and soul of the community— of any community, excuse me. And then our David Link at Lennox, who's a scholar, said great libraries build communities. I feel like the Orem Public Library is fulfilling that and exceeding it by far. And those of us on the council or the commission have just enjoyed watching the library grow and watch, as you saw the numbers there, patrons are coming in higher numbers. There's more activities.

Thank you.

And we just appreciate the support that we receive. So, thank you.

Thank you. And I just, I have to give a shout out because this is— I mean, you're seeing what's going on in the library right now, which is amazing. I mean, just watching that video, but to understand what these guys have done is off the charts. Uh, just, just a couple years ago, 2 and a half years ago or whatever. There was a time when there were a lot of, uh, there were articles being written in the newspaper about problems with the library. Um, we did a, we did a, a survey of our entire workforce to find out how happy they were and how engaged they were. And, and across our entire city, those surveys came out extremely positive. The one that lagged a little bit was the library. And so we were in a different place with our library 2 and a half years ago. And so what we decided to do was we decided to take Bryce, who was over our rec center, who was setting records with our rec center as being one of the only— well, I think the only government-run rec center in the state to actually make money, which is unheard of— but to take Bryce, who was doing that there, and task him with revitalizing the library. And so Bryce being Bryce, he decided to figure out best practices. He decided to take a group of leadership from the library, go look at other libraries, look at what they're doing, what their most exciting, their best practices were, and bring that back to Orem and incorporate that. And so where we're at now is these guys have done a phenomenal job. I mean, you just saw this presentation. Our library is a happening place. There's a lot going on. We're on our path to being one of the best, most exciting libraries in the state, and you guys are doing a phenomenal job. So thank you.

Can I say something too? So, um, I got to serve 1 year with Bryce as our new library director, and truly an amazing individual. And as the mayor said, just thinking outside the box as to what libraries could be. and searching and looking for those opportunities. That went along with the mayor who challenged— Mayor Young challenged Bryce and all of our department heads to make your department the best. We want to be the best with the focus on our Family City USA motto. It's just an incredible organization now as I've seen you work and create all this. I got shifted to some other commissions and committees and no longer attend that Library Commission. But to see what you've done to bring our community together and to have the library be such a positive, happy, happening place, I just truly, truly appreciate that. Because my love has always been— my dedication, my service for 25 years in the community has always been for children and Libraries. Always had my kids do that. So thank you, Bryce, for that.

And Katrina, may I just also just mention I'm, I'm also now currently serving on that Library Commission and have the privilege of watching the efforts. I, I know that Bryce is a great leader, but a great leader needs great followers, and also those that build it, and his team that I've witnessed, uh, those on the Library Commission and all of the librarians and all of his staff there at the library are exceptional in what they do, and they put out extra effort and talent. And so I'm just very grateful to see the innovation, the thinking outside the box, and then creating this synergy that is beyond each individual to create this amazing effort now that we call our Orem Library. And, and you're setting records, you're exceeding exceeding all expectations and look forward to a super bright future. Thank you for your great report. Thanks for the service the commission offers and all of the staff there in the library.

Wonderful.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Council.

Okay, moving on. Item number 7.6, a presentation on the top places to work. From Amy Peterson, our HR manager, and Jenica Jones.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. Um, in May, the city partnered with Energage, a workforce research firm, to conduct an anonymous employee survey measuring workplace culture and engagement. Engagement. Earlier this month, Orem was recognized as one of Utah's top workplaces, ranking 49th in the large employers category. We're proud to report that Orem is the only city to receive recognition in this category. This award is based entirely on employee feedback, with scores benchmarked against data from 30 million employees over 19 years. Recognition is awarded only to organizations whose employee feedback exceeds the national benchmarks. Here are some of the highlights of the survey results that demonstrate the strength of Orem's organizational culture and employee experience. 81% of employees highly recommend working at the City of Orem. Orem is in the top 2% for employees seeing professional growth and opportunities. This is— this distinction was earned in large part due to the investment in giving our employees the training and education needed to excel in their fields, as well as encouraging employees to get certifications and attend training as part of the Hybrid Step Program. Top 1% for caring and supportive managers. Top 14% for innovation and support of new ideas. 86% of employees feel their work is meaningful. When employees were asked what 3 words best describe our culture, the top answers were friendly, fun, and positive. We thank you for your incredible support of our employees and investing in programs and professional growth opportunities that are helping the City of Orem employees be the best they can be. We're very proud to have received this recognition, resignation, resignation, recognition, and will never stop working to make the employee experience here in Orem even Even better. Thank you.

1, 2, 3.

Orm just keeps doing more and more and more amazing things. Now we've got Jenica back to introduce our new, new Youth Council.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. We are really excited to be here tonight with some of our Youth Council members, and we'd ask if you're here to come up to the front of the room. We have more than this and over 20 youth council members this year. Unfortunately, a lot of them are very involved in a lot of activities, and so not all of them can make it tonight, but we are very fortunate to have all of them here with us. And go ahead, don't be shy. Yep, everybody wants to see your faces. So these are all of our youth council members are from all of our local high schools. They're all Orem residents in high school. And they have all demonstrated a strong commitment and desire to serve our community. They're very eager to learn about the workings of the city and to build meaningful friendships and relationships with their peers from different schools. So at their first meeting earlier this month, the Orem Youth Council brainstormed ideas for their mission statement, which will focus on leadership, community, and service. We're excited to see them get involved in the community As they volunteer in various city events, attend Local Officials Day at the state capitol, and take the lead in several service projects. We can't wait for you guys to see what they'll accomplish and learn this year. And we're also, I'll add, grateful that we are able to serve with Council Members Gale and Lamson on the, on this Youth Council, and it's great to have them and their support. And we are now going to have our city recorder conduct a swearing-in ceremony for you guys, and then following the swearing-in, they'd love to take a photo with you as well. All right, this is very exciting. Okay, so raise your right hand and you'll just repeat after me. I, state your name, do solemnly swear that I will support, obey, and defend The Constitution of the United States.

The Constitution of the State of Utah. And the laws and ordinances of the City of Orem.

I will discharge my duties of my office with fidelity.

Good job.

There you go.

3, 2, 1.

Okay.

Okay, we'll move on to personal appearances. And just so that you understand, we're later after the personal appearances, we're going to have a public hearing. And that public hearing is going to be about a proposed amendment to adjust the requirements that allow single-family zoned properties in certain circumstances to be developed as multifamily. So if you're here today, talk about that, then you can wait till the public hearing. Um, and so I'll just let you let me know if you're gonna hear for the public hearing instead. Um, this says please do not state your address or phone number at the pulpit. Interesting. We used to always have them do that.

Yes, they did.

Who changed the form? Okay, they've just changed the, uh, yeah, never mind. All right, so each, each person who comes up— let me just read this. Time has been set aside for the public to express their, their ideas, concerns, and comments on items not scheduled as public hearings on the agenda. Those wishing to speak are encouraged to show respect for those who serve the city. Comments should focus on items concerning the city. Those wishing to speak should have signed in before the beginning of the meeting, and please limit your comments to 3 minutes or less. We'll start out with Michael Lee.

I have 2 items. Um, first is We're excited. I live in the Sunset Heights neighborhood, and we're generally very excited about the completion of the Heritage Park. It's pretty amazing that you've been able to adjust the height of it so as to thread that needle high enough that you've got the drainage and low enough that it's not objectionable. Actually, a lot of my neighbors find that it's too high, but— Too late to talk to you about that. There is one concern, as we see lots and lots of rocks. In fact, both my comments have to do with rocks. We're hoping that some of those rocks get covered up with grass or some other type of play surface. And we don't know if that's going to be the case, but that's kind of— we went back and looked at some of the Renderings that were done and realize that you've got a lot of concerns to be able to make that happen. So you don't have to comment on this. I'm just saying, if you have a chance to put in— we're hoping it becomes some grassy areas, even if it's artificial, and some place surfaces, which the plans do call for. Second item, uh, and this is kind of an unfortunate one. It has to do with the Lumen Company installing fiber throughout the various neighborhoods. My relationship started out in a very rocky way with them. And it started out, unfortunately, about the same time that the incident at UVU happened on the 10th. So everybody was pretty nervous. And I discovered 2 men in my backyard. And I said, what are you doing in my backyard? Luckily, there was no violence and police didn't have to be called. And they introduced themselves, which they should have done at my front door instead of in my backyard. That's the number one thing I want you to know. And I've had conversations with members of your staff about this. The communication between the community and them, I think, has been very poor. And luckily nothing happened as the police were searching for their suspect. They, meaning the subcontractors of Lumen, have told me that their intent was to dig 4 or 5 holes in my yard, including around the roots of the large trees. And being Tree City, USA, in addition to Family City, USA, I did my part 30 years ago and planted a whole bunch of trees, the roots of which are within the public utility easement. They asked me about that, and I said that the poles that they intended to dig would damage my trees. If not kill them. And they advised me of their, what they called rights by law, to do exactly that. But they would repair any damage done. Now, keep in mind that when I planted those trees 30 years ago—

Michael, if you could kind of wrap it up, because we're getting through— we're past 3 minutes.

Time? Okay. The point is, you didn't have to, and you don't have to now, take all comers who want to put things into that otherwise filled public utility easement. As far as my yard is concerned, it's full. It's full of a lot of rocks, which makes it impossible for these companies and future companies. I'm told there could be 30 or 40 more companies, all of whom may want to put things into that public utility easement. At some point, the owner of the easement, which is the public, and the administrator of the easement, which is the city, needs to say the utility is no longer needed. or isn't needed. In fact, they asked me, why do I feel this way? And I said, I'm an investor along with the rest of the city in Utopia. Why don't you use Utopia? They made a business decision. And I said, well, you know what? I've made a business decision too. I put $3,000 down on Utopia to bring it to my house many years ago. And I am not going to make use of your utility that will undercut the city's ability to repay the bonds. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Michael. Bryn, could you just give a brief summary of what we're required to do and how this works with this public utility easement?

Uh, yeah, so briefly, the The predecessor of CenturyLink had a telecommunications agreement to use that existing PoE that was first entered into in like 1935 or 1938. And so then Lumen recently acquired that right. So it's a It is a right that they have to use that easement. If I guess if there's a future brand new private utility provider that, that would want to come in and use the easement, then this current city council could make a decision on that. But as far as Lumen or CenturyLink, they already had that right. So we can help manage though as well and hold them accountable to construction standards. And you, but also the public, can contact our engineering division to help enforce the guardrails and regulations that do exist. But that's about the extent of what we can do. That's up to the mayor.

Another minute.

Would you give me another? Yeah, we're— I mean, we're well past your time. I'm sorry.

We were when we started.

Well, I know, but you— we've given you about 5 minutes. I know you were supposed to have 3.

This is very, very frustrating because I have tried to talk to your legal department. I have talked to your community development department and to your engineering department. But the general feeling is we can't do anything because of this existing agreement. However, the Supreme Court found in 19— 2023 to uphold the doctrine of—

Okay, I'm sorry, we've got to keep going. But if you'd like to talk with Steve, I'd invite you to share that. So yeah, so because we, I mean, I think we've explained ourselves and we just have to continue on. Otherwise, I mean, we'll go all night. But I appreciate it, and feel free to reach out to our legal. Thank you. Okay, next we've got Jonathan Wagstaff.

Waco, Three Mile Island, Sandy Hook, Watergate, Columbine, and now Orem and UVU. Once obscure names have a way of becoming deeply associated with tragedy. I fear that this has happened to our community of Orem on the national stage. The Wikipedia page for Orem now prominently features a section on Charlie Kirk's assassination. National news coverage, literally the reporting put UVU on the map next to their coverage. Even after a community heals and overcomes a tragedy, continued negative perception can have a large impact. A 2015 economic study concluded that that the Columbine property prices were 10% lower due to the lasting stigma, even 15 years after the tragedy. This translates to less business, less vibrancy, and less tax revenue for our schools, university, and neighborhoods. Orem shouldn't be in denial about the infamy and stigma that are now associated with it, unfortunately, nor should we resign ourselves to assuming it is There is an opportunity for Orem to brand itself in a way that turns stigma into distinction. Perhaps the best example of this kind of transformation is the Nobel Prize. The Nobel name is a name that should have gone down in infamy for the destruction from dynamite, but instead is associated with scientific distinction and praise and peace. Rather than shying away from the tragedy, Orem should fearlessly. Push to become the center of dialogue and discourse. Orem should do this in 2 main thrusts. First, it should bestow the Orem Award for Dialogue, and second, it should start a public holiday called Dialogue Day. The city council should be the body that selects nationally recognizable recipients, much like the Nobel Peace Prize recipients are selected by members of the Swedish Parliament. This award could be your most impactful act as a legislative body and your legacy to direct a revitalization of discourse. Our nation used to have a robust culture of debate from Jefferson versus Adams to Lincoln versus Douglas. But today we have Marvel versus DC and Star Wars versus Star Trek. To say the least, the quality of our public discourse has fallen. Conversely, Dialogue Day would be a revival of public discourse and bridge building. Boston and— excuse me— Orem could be central to this new Dialogue Day, much like Boston and Chicago are for St. Patrick's or New York is for Thanksgiving. Orem can be the birthplace of Dialogue Day, just as Galveston was for Juneteenth and my hometown of Spokane was for Father's Day. Dialogue Day could be celebrated with participation from individuals and businesses by decorating bridges, sponsoring debates, hosting block parties, and holding interfaith discussions. On a civic level, Orem should petition and propose to host national debates and present the Orem Award. Our community has a choice. We can spend years memorializing a tragedy only in sorrow and stigma, or we can memorialize by bravely moving forward, using that moment as a call to action. Mayor and City Council, I ask you to join me in making this a reality by establishing a committee to make a Dialogue Day and the Orem Award for Dialogue. I believe Orem has the courage to choose Dialogue Day. Thank you.

Thank you.

Tyler?

I can't quite read your last name. Haroldson.

Haroldson.

Okay. Um, my name is Tyler Haroldson. I'm a resident in Vineyard. Um, I'm here to talk to you about a street, 400 South, that is— part of it is split between Vineyard and Orem, and part of it is all controlled by Vineyard. Um, it's not a safe street in not just my opinion. It's empirically not a safe street. A safe street, and my ask for you is to help to make it safer. I think the best route would be to either give full control of the entire street to Vineyard— that's what I would prefer— or to have Vineyard give their section to you so that I don't have to go to 2 councils to get any decision made. As I'm sure you all know, it takes a while to get things done with one council. It's that much harder with 2. In October of 2022, I don't know if you're aware, but October is year over year the most dangerous month for children as far as traffic deaths. In October 2022, a 6th grader was crossing in a crosswalk and his name was Ryder. He got hit by a car. He cracked his skull.

Oh my God.

He had a skull fracture, was bleeding out of 3 parts of his brain, sort of like a stroke. He had blood vessels in his brain burst, but he's a 6th grader and they burst because of the car. He was lucky because he lived. A year later, in October of 2023, a 17-year-old named Sienna was on a run training for a half marathon. She was struck on the same section of the same road. And did not get so lucky. She died. I came to the council. I don't think it was in this room, and I went to the Vineyard City Council as well. Here I was told that you would speak to Vineyard's mayor and get a solution going. And there I was told that— well, I was told a lot of things there. Um, 2 years later, the street looks exactly the same. Um, I'd like it to not be the case anymore. October's coming up on us. Hopefully it goes like last year and no one dies, but I'm worried because it's the exact same design that there'll be a problem. Some friends and I went— one of my friends has a speed recorder. We clocked people. It was like maybe a quarter of them were going the speed limit. We clocked someone going 46 in a 25 zone. It's between the 2 sides of the street are a park and an elementary school. So I think that the city should put in traffic calming. Strong Towns is an organization that has a lot of suggestions on how to do that, but you can put in cones, you can put in these temporary type of things. They're very inexpensive. I know my time's running out. In short, my recommendation would be to either have One city control the entire road so you don't have to get 2 people, 2 councils together. And my other suggestion for whichever city controls it is to get your experts together and have quick and cheap solutions put up, see how well they work, and if they're not working, change them till they do. And when they do work, then you keep them there until you can get the funding to get permanent infrastructure. Thank you.

So Tyler, if you'd like to talk to Chris Shirkey. He's on our over-the-traffic team. He's just right there. He raised his hand. Okay, that would be your direct conduit to move this along.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, now we've got 2 people here. It says 16 Plex. Are you actually here for the public hearing? There's, uh, so, okay, so there's Dick. Dick Acer— Asim Allen. Dick Allen.

Yes.

You're okay. And then there's also Rick, uh, Jeske. So you guys can go in the public hearing. Next we've got Heather Fry.

Hi, I'm Heather Fry. I live in Orem since 2007. I begin my comments with a heartfelt thank you to the Orem staff and leadership who in less than 9 hours pulled off the amazing gift of the candlelight vigil in to honor and mourn Charlie Kirk. Your efforts are deeply appreciated and could only have been accomplished because of the committed and caring leaders and staff that we currently have in Orem. Mayor Young, Orem City Council, Orem staff, thank you, thank you, thank you. I follow up with a riddle: what has a beginning, a middle, and an end but is also infinite? Time. This past July, a Facebook post on the City of Orem government page asked for submissions to name the large clock outside City Hall. Over 85 comments later, and now nearing the end of September, I, Heather M. Frye, submit a request for consideration directly to our city leadership. Please name our clock Charlie. Charlie Kirk began his mortal journey in 1993 in Illinois. And tragically, it ended here in Orem on September 10th. In Ecclesiastes chapter 3, verses 1 through 8, it speaks of a time to be born and a time to die, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn And Orem has been mourning. What better representation of life moving forward than Orem's newest timekeeper? There are many that believe that death is the end. I believe differently. Death is not the end. Charlie knew it wasn't the end. It is my sincere hope and prayer that Orem will do all it can to commemorate Charlie Kirk by naming our city clock Charlie. Thank you.

Thank you. Next, we've got Tammy Moore, or unless you're here for the 16-plex. Okay. And then we've got Evan Thacker.

Hello, my name is Evan Thacker. Mary Young, thank you for your words about Charlie Kirk that you spoke earlier tonight. I appreciate that. And thanks also to Miss Fry, who just spoke on Charlie Kirk as well. Thank you. Regarding Orem City, I just want to raise one point of concern and one point of thanks. First, my concern about political campaign signs hung on the canal fences in Orem. I've learned that the canal company sent a letter a few weeks ago to all candidates running for office requesting that all political campaign signs be removed from the canal fences. I've noticed that many canal fences remain decorated with large, prominent political campaign signs for some candidates, including Young, Millett, Spencer, and Muehlstein. This may be nothing more than a small and insignificant oversight on the part of those candidates and their campaign teams, and my concern may perhaps be a petty thing. However, I wonder if the disrespect and disregard shown to the canal company by those candidates leaving their signs up might translate into a general strategy of governance in Orem that involves disrespecting and disregarding reasonable requests and points of view of companies, organizations, or individuals operating in our city. I worry about that. In contrast, political campaign signs for some other candidates, including McCandless, Meekum, Mortimer, and Moulton, are conspicuously absent from those canal fences. I see this as a signal of those candidates' respect and regard for the canal company's reasonable request for no signs to be hung, and I'm encouraged that those candidates candidates leaving their signs unhung there might translate into a general strategy of governance in Orem that's based on respect and regard for companies, organizations, and individuals in our city. My hope is that respect and regard will rule the day when it comes to Orem city leadership. Second, my thanks for some recent action from the city council regarding city grants that I believe is very positive. I recently learned from Councilors Millett and Spencer—

Evan. You hit your 3 minutes.

Oh, it says 56 seconds.

Oh, okay, keep going.

No worries, no worries.

Sorry.

Uh, so I learned from, uh, Councilors Millett and Spencer about, uh, that our city has a grant writer. Unfortunately, I don't know her name right now, but who has been successful in securing grants totaling millions of dollars to support city projects in the past year. Kudos and congratulations. Congratulations to our grant writer. I had asked Councillors Millett and Spencer if there were some information about these grant-getting efforts that could be posted publicly on the city's website for any interested citizens to see. Sure enough, within a couple of weeks after my request, this information did appear on the city website in the transparency portal, and Councillor Spencer emailed me to let me know. Thank you. Thank you to Councillor Millett and Councillor Spencer. Spencer, for listening to my feedback and for arranging for that information to be posted publicly. I appreciate it. May I suggest for the council's consideration that in addition to the information already posted, you consider adding a few notes about specific purposes and projects for which that grant money has been used or will be used? I think that additional information would be great for us to know about. Thank you very much, and I appreciate the opportunity to Speak about my opinions here.

Thank you, Evan. Say, let me, let me clarify a few things to help you understand better, Evan. So, as long as I've lived in Norham for 35 years, uh, political signs have always been on the canals. There's never been a controversy. There's never been a question. It just seemed to be a controversy this year when Certain candidates got their signs up early, and, and then it became an issue because from what we were told by the canal companies when we asked them when they called was that they'd been called repeatedly and harassed and harassed and harassed about the signs to where they finally threw up their hands and said, we just don't want to be involved in this. And so that was caused by certain people on a certain side harassing the canal companies. And then taking another step to help you understand, the canal companies are not all owned by one canal company. So the signs that were in question, the canal company asked to be taken down after they were harassed, that's one canal company. There's multiple canal companies, and the other canal companies are just fine with the signs. So that's— so we're not disrespecting or disregarding or disobeying We're following exactly what we're supposed to follow. So thank you.

Yeah, and actually, 4 years ago, I called the, the water master and asked permission, and he said, we really don't care. We've never cared. We just don't want you to block the gate. We want to be able to still have access to the canal. And there were signs on the canals 2 years ago by candidates, you know, people who are sitting at this dais here. And I am aware of Doyle Mortimer's sign on a canal right now. So I— as the mayor said, it really depends on the watermaster and the canal company and the permissions there. And it's really unfortunate that this individual was called by supporters of a certain candidate, called by supporters and harassed, and to the point that she threw up her hands and said, I can't can't do my job because too many people are calling me to tell me to take down the signs. And it was asked, well, why? And, and she said, because they don't like the other candidates. So, you know, I— it's just dirty politics. I'm not quite sure why, you know, we— this is getting to this level by some campaigns. But as the mayor said, the signs were removed from the canals that this poor woman got the phone calls from. So just for some additional context there, because, you know, you really need to hear the whole story. But thank you for your concerns.

Thank you. Uh, last up on our list is Steve White. Okay, you're here for the hearing. Okay, we'll move on then. Thank you. Okay, we'll move to item number 9. We've got a scheduled, uh, a public hearing. This is for an ordinance. It's a request to amend the text of Article 22-21, special exceptions for multifamily dwellings. The proposed amendment adjusts the requirements that allow single-family zone properties in certain circumstances to be developed as multifamily. And Jared, if you'd like to present that.

Thank you.

If the applicant would like to come set up at the table, you're welcome to, to take questions.

Go ahead, John.

Mayor, members of the council, thanks. Um, and as you, as you mentioned, this is a text amendment request by Mr. Zumbrennen, who's joined me here at the table. Uh, an amendment proposed to Article 2221 of the city code, part of the zoning ordinance. Um, this is, as you said, a special exception for multifamily dwellings. And for those multifamily dwellings to occur in residential single-family zones. So it's a little different than just straight multifamily. Um, just a couple of things as background. The purpose of that article is stated as the purpose of this article is to allow the development of multifamily dwellings on vacant lots adjacent to existing multifamily dwellings, subject to the standards and provisions contained herein. And again, this is for multifamily dwellings in, uh—

Can we pause you for just 1 second? Our monitors are not on. Is that a quick fix, Pete? Or they've not been on the whole meeting. Or can we take like— I don't know, Mayor, what— how much— how many slides do you have in your presentation?

Like 8.

Okay, well, should we just— is it a quick fix, Pete, or should we just all turn around? I'm fine.

5 minutes if we can take a look at it.

Let's just turn around. Okay, we'll be good.

All right, the backs of your heads all look really nice, just in case you were worried about camera stuff.

Looking good.

Okay.

So, and then again, just another note. So, you know, this is a special exception, and special exceptions are reviewed by the Board of Adjustments in a public process. So anyone applying under this rule under 2221, um, that review would happen by the Board of Adjustments, not by the Planning Commission or staff. It would be a different public body. Um, something you should know. Um, so this is Mr. Zumbrennen's property. The, the text amendment is a result of his desire to develop this property. Um, the address, right? Is it 9?

It's at the intersection of 975 North and 100 West. So just north of Macy's.

And when you need to speak.

Okay.

Um, so this is the property. Um, it's just over an acre. Um, there's some— when it, uh, when a subdivision is performed, a little more land will come into it and make it just over an acre. Um, it's part of a large block the way we define blocks in this ordinance. And that has given rise to some of the requested amendments that he's making. Uh, I wanted to go over some of those. The first part of that ordinance is the purpose. The second part of Article 2221 goes over which properties are eligible to be considered. And again, what they're being considered for is being allowed to be developed as multifamily, even though they're in a single-family zone, R-6, 6.5, or 7.5. Uh, they, they're supposed to meet these different Um, requirements, 50% of the front and side property lines adjacent to or across the street from multifamily dwellings, lots oriented the same direction as an adjacent multifamily dwelling. The lot— this is an important one— item 3, the lot between 8,000 and 20,000 square feet, um, widths are normal, lot not previously having been developed, lot doesn't contain any structures, not part of recorded subdivision. And then importantly, the last one, item 7, lot in existence on or before November 1st, 1999, and not subdivided since then. Um, I wanted to point out 3 and 7 because they come up later on in the things that he's requesting amendments to. Excuse me, amendments to, um, item B and C are ways that you can become eligible. Um, and that is to, in the first instance, on under item B, if your lot is surrounded on all property lines, including across the streets, by multifamily, nonresidential, commercial development, and then again, your lot complies with A, 3, and 7, which are those requirements that it be before 1999 and that it be between those area of 8,000 and 20,000 square feet. Or you could qualify under C. Your lot could be located on a block where all other lots are multifamily. And for this section, a block is defined as an area that is completely surrounded by public streets. And then again, you need to comply with A3 and 7. You need to be in those size ranges. His proposed amendments are to item C and to some other items, but Importantly, to Item C and to Item A. The first thing that Mr. Zumbren would like to see amended would be the size requirement. This would allow— this amendment would allow the lots to be between 8,000 square feet and 48,000 square feet. That would include a lot like his that's just over an acre. The second part of his request has to do with what gets considered eligible. Again, as you meant, as we saw in C, the lot would need to be located on a block where All of the properties are multifamily, and we would say at least 75% in this amendment as it's proposed. And then for this section, we added under the next item, kind of a rider onto the, to the statement. For this section, a block is defined as an area that is completely surrounded by public streets. However, if the block on which the lot is located, on which the lot is located, is greater than 10 acres, as his is, then at least 75% of other lots within a contiguous area of at least 300 feet drawn on the block and around the lot must be occupied. Occupied by multifamily dwellings, and then again complying with A-3 and 7. Does that make sense so far? I know it's kind of— it's all new. So if you have questions, feel free to interrupt me. Okay.

Only I'm reading it online that you sent out. The red line is the only changes. The other is already law. Is that correct?

Yes, correct. This is already— 2221 exists.

The only—

the only thing that's being proposed are these changes. So we already have a rule, and I appreciate it. Councilman McDonald, the, the rule as it exists is written very narrowly to say, if you, if you have a property— I'm going to paraphrase what I assume to be the thinking when it was written— you have a property that was in a multifamily developing area, and the city had come through at some point in the past and rezoned everything to single family, and you're the leftover lot surrounded by all these other already developed multifamily lots. Well, let's go ahead and let you develop multifamily as well. What's the, what's the point of Of trying to say that's got to be the only single-family house on this whole block or in this whole area. This is a proposal essentially to widen that eligibility standard. That makes sense, but it already exists. It's just very narrow. Um, the other changes that Mr. Zumbrennan has proposed have to do with, um, sort of outgrowths of the first proposals. Again, um, his— right now it's 20,000 square feet or greater, or sorry, up to 20,000 square feet. So this line should read 12,000 square feet.

Thank you.

If lots are greater than 20,000 square feet, he would propose then a density for it because it doesn't have one currently because they stop at 20,000 square feet. If you have 8,000 square feet, you're allowed 2 units under this standard. If you have a 10,000 square foot lot and you meet those other standards, you get 3 units. 12,000, 4. What Mr. Zumbrennen has proposed is that if you had 20,000 square feet or greater, you get 1 unit per 1,000 square feet.

So if for you have a 20,000 square foot lot, you get 4 units?

every 2,950 square feet, it's about 14.75 units per acre. That would accommodate the, the plan that he had been working on that was 16, a 16-unit complex. So, then again, um, he's proposed additional wording that would allow a 5% density bonus if you do better architecture, if you do better building materials, et cetera, 2 by 6 walls, energy-efficient windows. And then the last thing is an architectural inclusion. There are some architectural standards included in this 2221. If you're approved by— for a special exception by the board, and you get to build a multifamily unit, let's say you get to build a 3-plex. There are architectural standards that say you have to use these certain materials. You have to have things like that. Um, his would include wood and fiber cement board in the allowed materials list. Right now, they're not there. Stone, brick, et cetera. Again, those are kind of the— those are the main points of his proposed amendment. Uh, this is his property again, and just to illustrate, The reason for the block and the 75%, according to the definition of blocks in the code, I hope you can see that white cursor moving around. His block extends much further than you would think. So, you picture a block being something like this, but there's no street enclosure there. So, his block goes all the way down to State Street in some instances, and then further, further north. It's fairly large, and that's why the 10 acres are larger. That's an attempt on his part to limit the, the impact. or the sort of effect on other properties aside from just his own. So, uh, there you go.

Um, so, it's not the— so the block goes to State Street. It doesn't stop it at change of, um, like the commercial, um, right?

The zoning doesn't—

a significant change of zone is not in this law, right?

The way that this law is written, the way that the article is currently worded, A block is enclosed by— completely enclosed by public streets. And in some cases, that's nice and simple, like right here to the east of his property. Boom, nice little block, tight, easy to identify, et cetera. But you can see just in the same area, this— because this street doesn't go through, this block extends further east, and some of them get really large. We have some blocks in the city under this definition that are 20+ acres. Um, so. That's the reason for that language.

The only one we're talking about, I mean, the heart of the beast is this.

Yes, this is Mr. Zumbrennen's property.

If, uh, other kind of complicated to do, like looking uphill.

Correct.

Okay, go ahead.

Anything else?

Just to clarify. So part of what these changes are doing is it's redefining what a block, a city block is.

Um, well, yes and no. Article 2221 has its own definition of what a block is. Um, we tried some attempts, um, looking at different definitions for blocks, and there's no real good way to do it without being ambiguous. And with code, we try not to be ambiguous. So we left the definition of block in place and added that however rider instead. That allows you to say, well, if you're a block that's really large, let me go back to this.

Which that rider can whiplash, but conveniently applies to this development that he's trying to put in.

Yes.

So, this block here, uh, yes, it's written, it's written largely from, from his point of view. It's Mr. Zumbrennen's amendment proposal. It's written for his point of view. This block right here, for example, you can look at that block and say, okay, if I'm, if I'm applying for— if I'm a vacant lot on this block and I'm applying for this exception, and I'm the only lot left on the block that's not developed, are all of the other block— are all of the other lots Yes or no. And it's easy because there's 7 or 8 of them. Easy to count them up and see what it is. In Mr. Zumbrennan's case, there's a host of non-commercial properties on the block. There's a lot of residential and there's a mix of single-family and multi-family. So his proposal is to say, well, if 75% of it is multi-family, is that good enough to allow me to do multi-family? That's why I say it's, it's an expansion basically of the eligibility criteria.

Thank you.

Rules. Go ahead. Oh, right. So right here, I'm sorry, right here is east, correct?

Yes.

And those are single family.

These are single family.

Yes.

And to this south, to the north, or north, or multifamily. Is this zoned R-8 currently?

R-6.

R-6.

Okay.

Thank you. I appreciate that. My staff report actually says it's R-8. Those are the evil pitfalls of pasting and copying. Sometimes it should have said R-6.

And then are both sides of that block to the north multifamily? Uh, the north side, the north and the south side.

The north side is multifamily as well.

Yes.

Okay.

And by multifamily, townhomes, duplexes?

There are duplexes, townhomes, uh, both.

Okay.

In that little block there. Yes.

What is that rooftop to the south?

To the south here? Yeah, this is a single-family home.

Okay, so we got 2 sides with single-family homes.

Yes.

Okay.

And then I apologize, I should have said— I'm sorry, Councilman, go ahead. Um, I neglected to, um, tell you at the outset, the Planning Commission did review this in public hearing as required. They continued once or twice to make to make some adjustments to reduce ambiguity at that ambiguity and that kind of thing. They did recommend denial of the text amendment. I'm supposed to make sure you know that going into the public hearing. So, go ahead.

So, if we amend this, uh, 22, whatever it is, thank you. Uh, it doesn't just apply to this parcel. It applies to every parcel in similar situations.

Yeah, it would. It applies generally across the zone to every parcel that meets those standards.

Yeah.

Any, any, any, any property that would meet those standards as they're defined, uh, and in the R-6, R-6.5, and R-7.5 zone, uh, if it meets those standards, they're all eligible right now under the rules the way they are. The ones that are eligible are eligible. This would just expand how many properties there would be.

Mayor, if I may, I can't remember a time when we've used this, uh, proceed— this thing that's on the books right now. I can't remember using— if we did, I missed it, but I can't remember ever applying this current law.

Do you?

Those who've been on a little while, Dave, do you remember this coming up?

Or—

No, because there hasn't been anything like that.

Yeah, well, yeah, even without the amendment, I don't remember ever applying that.

Right.

I mean, but I think, I think the concern on the Planning Commission was, um, doing a text amendment specifically for him, and it is for the whole city. So that's the variable I think that the city, the Planning Commission had a problem.

So Mr. Zumbren wanted to respond. Is that all right at the moment?

Yes.

Do I push?

You're already ready. It's on.

Okay.

So this, this amendment. Was used in, in 2000. If you, um, no, I'm, I'm going in chronological order. If you see down on the street below, that's 930 North. There's a little upside-down L in the center of that street. That's, that is a, like a storage unit, and that's part of the reason that the definition had to be 75%. as well as the, the single-family home that has, um, a, a big, huge 2-bay garage. And then the red roof there is— was used for, um, animal husbandry, mainly sheep, by the, uh, the person who built, built out that property. So next to the upside-down L there, there's to the east Or to the right of it is a property that was developed in 2000, which is a non-stacked fourplex. And then, um, the, the next time it was amended in 2008. And then so the block north that you can circumnavigate, the, um, the southeast corner of there had a little single-family home, and that was taken down and a 3-unit condominium was constructed at that time in 2008. So, um, as far as I know, citywide, those are the only 2 uses in the last 25 years.

Thank you. Do we have any questions, or do we want to open the public hearing? Okay, you don't have any comments. We'll go ahead and open up the public hearing, and those of you that wanted to say something on that, feel free to come up.

Um, I don't have my list.

Yeah, come on up if you want to make a comment.

Did you want to, um, did you want to let Mr. Zumbrennen make more comments before the public hearing comments, or, or did you have more that you wanted to—

Well, I want to kind of set the stage for the need for this.

Yeah, yeah, he should go first. I, I thought you were done. I'm sorry. Yeah, if you'd like to go ahead.

Okay, so, um, Yeah, Orem is named after Walter C. Orem. And, um, so he was the president of the Salt Lake and Utah Railroad. And, um, Orem, in an effort to grow, decided to name the city after this guy, hoping that they would get a railroad stop, which was critical in the time of the railroads. It actually didn't work. And, and, and I'm— it's kind of interesting because it's not on— it's kind of disappeared. Like, it's not on the website that Orem didn't get that. But, um, so Orem has desired to grow from the very get-go. And I'm a 5th generation Provo native. And so my great-great-grandparents were assigned to settle in Provo. And so I've seen a lot of things happen here in my 64 years. And I recall the debate in Provo about the University Mall. The first mall in the state of Utah was the Cottonwood Mall. In Salt Lake County. And then the Woodbury Corporation who built that one wanted to build one down here. And so they obviously wanted to put it in Provo, and a lot of people were against it because they didn't want the congestion. And, and, um, so basically Provo said, we don't want it. So Orem said, we'll take it, wanting to grow. And so several decades later, Provo realizes that it was a mistake, and then they tried to build a mall in the East Bay Area. And, um, it's hard to be second when you're trying to compete against someone who's well established. So again, Orem had a growth mentality at that time, and something's changed. And to me, it's become kind of extreme to the other side. But anyway, so I graduated from Provo High, and to me it was natural. I just applied to BYU and I went there. I didn't realize how hard it was to get in even back then, but I got in. And then as I saw classmates getting married, they would move to Orem and live in a fourplex because it was affordable. And with that affordability, then they could decide to have children and start their families before graduating to make their big bucks that they expected. So affordability is, is a crisis in today's world, at least in the United States. Um, as long as you became a single-family homeowner pre-COVID, you're probably doing okay. Low interest rate locked in. And for someone trying to get in, it's virtually impossible. And this crisis is affecting people in a very impactful way. Channel 2 did a story about the high cost of living is forcing hundreds of Utahns to surrender their pets. A growing number of Utah pet owners are being forced to give up their pets as the cost of living and veterinary care continues to climb. The human The Humane Society of Utah reports a 480% increase in owner-surrendered pets so far this year compared to the same period in 2024. From January through August last year, 154 animals were surrendered by their owners. This year, the number has jumped to 900. It's horrific. It's a horrific decision made of love and desperation, says Julie Yuvalda. Director of the Humane Society's Pet Resource Center. Ulvestad said pets are family and giving up a pet is often traumatic, especially when it's a person's closest companion. When you are watching a growing— grown man cry in his truck in the parking lot after having to surrender his best friend, you realize how devastating this is. High housing costs have become the most common reason Utahns surrender their pets. According to the Humane Society, rising rents have made it harder for pet owners to keep animals, and many landlords now charge monthly pet rents or expensive pet deposits. A lot of people just can't afford it. So they're very, very much impacted, um, because we don't have enough housing. And the motivation in doing this amendment is to add a little bit. Um, most of the, the cities in the county have had a dramatic increase in the number of multi-unit housing. And I'm trying to build that quality housing, which is townhomes. Um, I don't know if you, um, recognize Susie Wells, but she was, she was the, she's the widow of Jack Wells, who was the CEO of General Electric. Um, one of the most dynamic, uh, business leaders this country's ever had. But, um, anyway, so she, she wrote an article that was in Forbes magazine, and, um, she— in here she notes, according to Harvard researchers, nearly half, 45%, of young adults between 18 to 25 think their mental health is harmed by an over— an overall sense that things are falling apart. The sense of powerlessness to push back against the climate change, to deal with the effects of the political environment like diminished public health and gun violence, and most notably to make enough money to support lifestyles, family, housing, and a future has led to an erosion of institutional trust. Unlike baby boomers who embraced existing institutions to get rich and live a comfortable life, the younger generation do not feel that institutions which are perceived as cumbersome, hierarchical, and a source of inequity and discrimination can improve their situation. When combined with the economic realities Welch identified, there where hard work no longer guarantees advancement, to help explain why more than 50% of young people fear they will be poor poorer than their parents during their lifetime. Unlike previous generations who could reasonably expect homeownership and financial security through steady employment, younger workers face structural barriers that have fundamentally altered career perspectives. And I would add, the AI phenomenon that's happening now has created, um, has accentuated that concern for younger, younger people.

And I would note, and I don't Just sorry, just to kind of speed things up. So, I think you're painting the big picture of housing affordability is a problem right now. Uh, and we, and we are very, very aware of that. So, if you could kind of get to the points about this project and why this should be changed throughout the entire city.

So, Jared and I sat down. Uh, had an appointment and reviewed the maps that the department produced, and we came up with it. There was realistically maybe 6 properties that would take advantage of this proposal. And my personal feeling is, is that with, with all the multi-unit housing, stacked units and townhomes that have been built throughout the county that it's, it's been 5 years since Orem has done 1 unit or 1 project. And that was the Ivory Homes project down by the mall.

And so, and you're talking about new projects because there have been apartments being built, uh, all along the last 4 years from previous projects that were approved. Uh, previously, so there, I mean, if you go drive down the mall, there's, there's been all kinds of things built. Yeah, so, I mean, I'm just saying to characterize it, there hasn't been a single one built. Now, there's been hundreds and hundreds built, but they were—

there's hundreds of units probably in that Ivory Homes project next to Costco.

So, um, but those were approved prior to this, to your point.

Yeah, but anyway, um, I just have an overall feeling that there needs to be some flexibility for specific situations. And, um, that's what this text amendment, um, is, is all about. Trying to help that affordability issue and adding to the housing.

So, um, I appreciate that. Jen, you had a comment?

I just have some questions, actually. How many units can you build without the amendment change? 0.

Well, no, it's zoned R-6.

You can build a home for that.

Well, the dimensions of the property— the dimensions of the property are basically 335 feet long and 150 feet. So it's, you know, it's a rectangle, and those dimensions Just simply don't work to do anything that's similar to what's to the east on the lots that are on 100 West. It's just, it's just not really functional. The other issue is, is that I don't believe someone would want to pay $800,000 and live next to a fourplex that was built in the '70s. It's just It just that it's kind of doesn't seem marketable. And, um, the townhome project would be a transition property from the fourplexes to the single family to the east.

Can you tell us how you arrived at 16 units? And, uh, is that the maximum? Is that the ideal? Like, how do we get to that?

Well, I had, I had started to develop this property under the State Street Improvement District, Canyon Crossing. And, um, then the moratorium was put on place. And so I had, um, done engineering work, had engineering work done, and had, um, plans drawn up for these 16 units. To meet that criteria. I'm still able to do essentially the same project because it's on a corner with, with, with complying with the standard setback. There was a different setback standard for the State Street Improvement Districts, but, um, it's still basically still— the project still works, um, with the modifications that I'm suggesting in this amendment.

And they're townhomes. Are they for sale or for rent?

The—

I will market them when the market is good, when, when interest rates have recovered and all of that. So initially, to, um, what my, what my goal is, is to do lease-to-own options with people. And once I get a large enough group, then, then separate the units into their own legal description and then sell them to those people that—

And Jared, maybe you can help clarify this. If we vote on this amendment— sorry, say we vote on this and say we approve it, we can't actually hold him to that because this isn't a plan or anything. This is just an amendment change.

This is just the amendment. Yes.

Thank you.

And if I'm understanding this right, this won't even come to the city council for approval, his project. With this change, it would go—

it would go first to the Board of Adjustments to be reviewed to see if it's eligible to be developed as multifamily, and then it would go through the DRC and Planning Commission for approval for the project itself.

Never come back to the city council where residents could then—

This isn't the kind of project you would see again. It would be developed under the existing zoning, R-6, but as a multifamily if this were passed.

Oh, I guess I'm sorry, I was talking about the 16plex.

Yeah, the— no, the 16-plex wouldn't come to you.

That would never come to the city council. Okay.

So I've got a question on, uh, to follow up on Jen's question was she asked you how many homes could you put on that, your lot at R-6, single-family homes.

I don't think they'd be $800,000 on R-6, but it would probably be 2 on 100 West and then 3 on the remaining.

So you can do 5, you can do 5 homes. So why, why wouldn't you do that when it's zoned that way? Because it doesn't pencil, or what?

It's nothing about penciling. It just, it's, it's the, the— it just doesn't blend into what's—

There's a neighborhood across the street. But my question is, we have over and over developers come and say it doesn't pencil, because to me it's greed, it's money, right? So the consistency of the, the neighborhood is what I'm worried— we need to keep that integrity. And that's why I'm like—

and that is multi-unit. It's the integrity of the neighborhood.

No, it's not.

On the west side of 100th.

The east and south are single-family homes. So my thing is, if we're all about R-6—

Virtually everything north and west and south is multi-unit.

Well, they're fourplexes, not 16-plexes. That's the difference.

It's not a— well, it's basically 3 buildings. 2 5-unit buildings and 1 6-unit on an acre, which should be 5 homes.

Okay, I think we just open it up.

Any other questions before we open the public hearing?

Well, I think I'm equally concerned that we're switching it from R-6, from single-family to multifamily. And I think my guess is that's what most people are going to hear— be here to talk about. But I'm not in favor of moving forward with the proposal.

Yeah, and my concern is this will not come— whatever project comes for this particular ordinance, if it fits this, which this sounds like, um, a big change for that neighborhood, it will not come to the City Council for residents to then come and have an opportunity to speak for or against. So I just really feel like that we're kind of taking away resident feedback and resident opportunity to be engaged in their community and to voice— get their voice to give their opinion.

Okay, let's go ahead and open this up to the public hearing. Anyone would like to make a comment?

Do you leave that?

Oh yeah, um, can you—

I don't, I don't know why I don't have the feed anymore.

There we go.

There's a green light. Is that it? Uh, I'm Dick Allen. I live at 975 North 40 West. Uh, straight east of the project, just, uh, there's 100 West. Uh, we live just east of there. The other night, uh, or twice in the last month, we have gone around, or somebody has, a friend of mine has gone around on the streets from Main Street to 185 West, from 8th North to 12th North. Every street in there, we've gone in and we've counted the cars, the trucks, the pickups, the trailers, everything that's on the road— not in parking lots, but on the road. Uh, there's 230 cars, trucks, trailers, motorcycles, and whatever one night in that area. On the road, not in parking lots. There's 276 vehicles the other night that we had out on the road. This can— this is a mess on congestion down here. I, I don't know how many of you have driven along First West or even gone down to 185 West. You can't drive through there because there's cars and trucks, pickups, Work trucks, trailers, so forth, on both sides of the road, and it's hard to get through. And he's talking— John's talking another 56 cars in this complex. Is that correct, John? I think it's 56.

But that's all inside.

I understand that, I understand that. But if they're all inside, what if somebody comes to visit the people in there? Where are they going to park? They're going to park on the street, and you've got 56 more cars in— out on the road in congestion. We're afraid somebody's going to get really hurt, and where it's a real concern to us— John, to me, had a great suggestion when we were talking today. We need to do something with the parking on 100 West and 185 West. Why can't we Restrict one side of the street, no parking. That would definitely help. I think that was a great idea that he had. Whether or not he gets this, I still think the city ought to do that on those streets. Um, I, I just think that we're, we're really concerned about the more cars down there And if he puts townhouses in there, you're going to get families and they're going to get a lot of— some kids. And that's more kids to get across the street and go to the school, uh, because that's kind of close. They won't get bused that close. More, more kids out on the road, and that's a real concern, I think. Um, the, the congestion is Is my biggest concern. Uh, more cars. Uh, I, I think it would be nice to have a really nice facility sitting down there to offset some of that other stuff that's down there. It's, it's really a mess in a lot of that area, and, uh, it's kind of shameful to all of us. Um, but I think a nice-looking complex that John would build there would look good, but I'm questioning if the looks right there is what we're really looking for right now.

Thank you.

Do I have to give my address?

Okay.

I'm Steve White, uh, former and maybe future city council candidate. Good evening, Mayor Young, council members, city staff, fellow residents. So I want to talk about this respectfully, share my perspective as a concerned resident. Resident, I urge you to reject this. Orem is Family City USA for a reason. Our safe streets, strong neighborhoods. Our families. But now more than ever, I think we kind of all realize just how precious and valuable these things are, and that we have to work hard to protect, protect them. This proposal puts those at risk. On the surface, it looks like a technical adjustment. In reality, it's spot zoning. It's crafted to benefit one project while setting a dangerous precedent. It more than doubles the maximum lot size. For exceptions, 20,000 to 48,000 square feet, no citywide justification. Why 48,000? There's no study, no analysis, just a number that happens to fit one landowner's parcel. That isn't planning, that's favoritism. Second, it could pack, you know, like you said, 16 units onto a single lot. Adding cars to already clogged streets, straining schools, neighborhood utilities.

Yeah.

Erodes our neighborhood character. Our identity is not boxy townhomes, apartments squeezed into single-family zones. Our charm and our identity is open spaces, tree-lined yards, kids and families playing outside. It's what what makes our city special. We don't need more density that erodes our soul and invites more deterioration of who we are. Finally, residents have spoken time and time again against higher-density housing. Ignoring that is not leadership, it's disrespect. I'll say it again so there's no misunderstanding: stop. Stop overriding our voice so developers and landlords Can profit. I want you to put residents first. I urge you to pause rezonings and exceptions like this. If density is to be addressed, let's do it citywide through a transparent resident-driven plan, not piecemeal that favors— not piecemeal favors that undermine trust. Neighborhoods aren't loopholes. They're where families live and learn, build their lives. Please protect them. Thank you.

Thank you.

My name is Rick Jeske. I live at 908 North 100 West, right down from the— right down from that side of there. I've lived in that house since 1991. So I'm at the bottom, just above the mayor's head right there in that little brown house. Yep, that one. Um, so right kitty-corner from us, there's that— is that 134 West? Uh, when that was developed, they had enough property there to do 5.6, 5.7, I can't remember exactly, but they named it the Blackhawk Subdivision after Pete Peterson, who was a Blackhawk Indian who lived in that long 2-acre acre lot that's right there, just south of Mr. Zabrenin's property. So they named it the Blackhawk subdivision to kind of gain favor with Pete. Pete's no longer here with us. Even with that, they tried to put 2 fourplexes in there originally, um, rather than holding them to the 5.6. As a neighborhood, we were all in favor of nicer units, give them the increase to 6. It's been good. Um, it's a, it's a nice development. But even with that, with only 6 units on there, there's still a lot of cars that are on 930 North and then parked out on 100 West at night. So if you go down the street now further to the south, there's those white, uh, townhomes that are along there. I'm not sure the name of that development, but at night there's a lot of those people who are also parking out on the street, out on 100 West. That street, I mean, years ago, hindsight, it would have been great if it were wider, but it's not. Just out of just habit, when we— there's cars parked on both sides, it's not uncommon to pull up and find a spot, let somebody come through. We treat it like a one-lane bridge. I don't know, somehow everybody knows that's how you do it. So, um, it would be really great to have something done there. I agree.

Thank you.

Um, 5, 6 units, whichever would be nice, especially if that would have, you know, whether it's a little cul-de-sac or something like that where the parking is actually in the property and it doesn't spill out onto the road. I think that's the biggest concern. Traffic is tricky, so it's going to increase anyway, but I think it's the, the overnight parking and some of that. I think that's That's the biggest concern. And if you change this, you could affect other properties in Orem unknowingly that, like you said, mentioned, wouldn't— you wouldn't be able to have meetings that affect those neighborhoods. So thank you.

Thank you.

My name is Crystal Muelstein. I live close to this area as well, and I echo what everybody else has said. The parking on that street is Pretty ridiculous, and it's a one-lane road for all intents and purposes if you're trying to drive on it. Along with that, I feel like it is not within best zoning practices to change the definition of a zone to fit a project, and that sets a really bad precedent for the future, um, potentially opening a can of worms that you can't put back. So I would urge you not to approve.

Thank you.

I'm Tammy Moore, and I've lived in Orem for 35 years. I'm grateful to members Lenee Millett and member Dave Spencer for— who's come along with us from the neighborhood meeting last year and also came to the recent planning Commission meeting concerning this code change issue. I appreciate you going that extra mile. And I thank Tom and Jeff. We've been texting and emailing about this situation, and I just recently brought Member Chris and Member Jen on board just a day ago. So anyway, I oppose this code change. problems I see with this particular code change is that 800 North is a corridor to Vineyard and to the Heber area, and both of those areas are growing. My husband and I sometimes take the back roads to avoid 800 North there, and I think in the future that we don't want to build too much onto 800 North— by 800 North. I know on the UDOT plan. There's no, uh, in the next 25 years, there's no expansion shown on there. Uh, I think most residents would use 800 North to get to the freeway and possibly down if they're going to shop south of there. I know apartments are necessary, but I believe we're tipping the balance between homes and rentals.

Thank you.

I think we want to keep Orem as a family place. We need good quality of life. We don't need to stack apartments or lose that quality, and I would rather drive an hour to go see my family and have the quality of life here. If this change is approved, it opens the door for unknown number of other developments. I feel like we need to be careful with what we have and be good stewards. Thank you for what you do and how you serve our community, and please help us protect our neighborhood.

Thank you. Do we have any other comments from the public? Okay, if not, we'll go ahead and— oh, one more.

Hi, I'm Stefan Zumbrennen. Um, uh, John's my dad. Don't want to confuse anybody about any of that stuff, but I'm also born in Orem Community Hospital. I'm a Timberwolf. I graduated from, um, Timonogos High School, and I can't afford to live in Orem. I have a wife and 2 kids. I am a master's student at BYU. I work at Primary Children's in Lehi and work all the way out there, but I live in Springville. And it is just so difficult to be able to say that where I live, where I grew up, isn't affordable to me. It is so difficult, and we see so much disgruntled Gen Zs, which I am, not being able to afford and live life the way we want to and have families and be able to be successful and have that peace that we really want. And Charlie Kirk spoke about this, saying things that, you know, prosperity doesn't bring what we're having right now. If people were happy, if people were feeling like they could have a slice of life, just a piece of it, then we wouldn't be seeing the type of anger and frustration that we see in the younger generation. My hope is that although this is a project that, you know, I stand to benefit in some way, that we can be forward-thinking about thinking about the future generations. We can either try and build an opportunity for people who live here, or we can just throw it away and have our families live in Eagle Mountain and Ogden and, and Santaquin because we can't afford to live here. Um, most of all, I'm just hoping that we can find a solution where we can not have schools closing here. We know that that's happening. Windsor was on the chopping block because of enrollment. We see these things happening here in this community. Also, under the current law as it stands, There isn't a single property in the city of Orem that would qualify for it. With this new one, as mentioned, there was 6. So when we're talking about a wide range of properties being able to be affected, it's just, it's not necessarily the truth. And currently there is no property that is allowed to have any kind of amendment. use that way. And so, thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, we'll close the public meeting and bring it back to the council. Anyone would like to make any comments?

I'll go first. Um, thank you, uh, Mr. Zumbrennen, for being here. Thank you for your interest in developing in Orem. And John, thank you for your, your words. Um, and everyone else that is here that has commented, thank you for your, your perspectives. Um, I'm familiar with this area, and I'm familiar with the people that live there, and, um, I understand the importance of having apartments. We've lived in apartments. I think probably everyone, you start out there. Um, it's an important part of life. Um, but in my feeling, um, the thing that this neighborhood needs is stability. Um, and I feel like that stability would come from single-family homes. And, uh, I also am concerned about the unforeseen consequences of a citywide change that this would, that this would cause. So I'm, uh, I'm Thank you.

Anybody else?

I can make a motion if— unless there's somebody else wants to speak.

Uh, I, I thank you all for being here.

I, I—

this— I'm really conflicted on this because I think what, uh, John and Stefan said is true. I think we need places for our younger families to be. I think we need opportunities for them to build equity. I think we need places for them to grow their families. Um, on, on the one hand, and I think that actually needs to be higher priority than it is for us here in the city. And I think you spoke to that, and you spoke to that as well. On the flip side, I think we have neighbors here that are really concerned about the traffic patterns as it relates to 8th North, or as it relates to their own particular neighborhoods. I think that's something that we have to be aware of and pay attention to as well. And I actually have heard in their comments that they do want to see something happen here, that maybe this, this isn't quite the thing, but they do want to see something happen. To see something happen here. So I'm optimistic that in the future there will come to a place that makes more sense for the neighborhood and to help solve the housing affordability things. But I just don't think we're quite there yet.

Okay.

Okay. So yeah, once again, thank you for everyone. I know this, I've been in those seats and it is very hard from both seats, all of the seats. So I appreciate your being engaged in coming here tonight. I'm very familiar with this area. In fact, That's how I get to Macy's, is I drive from my house on 100 West to go kind of the back way, and it definitely is a one-lane road. I'm always very nervous if I meet someone on the way, if they're gonna take off my rearview mirror or something.

So I—

and there's—

I do have some concerns about this. I'm not hearing— My focus on the city council regarding housing. To be sensitive to this argument of, you know, your generation not being able to have a home is what we— and I've been pushing in the meetings that I've been in and with legislators and even with the governor, a legislative policy commission that I serve on— is owner-occupied housing opportunities. And I, I'm hearing that there is not an appetite. Well, this is, first of all, this is just a text change. This is an ordinance change, but I'm also hearing there's not an appetite by this developer to do deed-restricted owner-occupied houses. And if we don't start going down that path to where we are giving that opportunity to our young people to actually build equity and personal wealth through purchasing, if all we're doing is building rentals, we're not going to solve some of these problems that you're talking about. That's that there's 2 different kinds of affordable housing here. One, some that you own, and some that you're just completely the rest of your life living in renting. So I'm uncomfortable with changing an ordinance for a specific project. Very uncomfortable with that. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that it takes away the resident option to then, if there are projects put under this ordinance, there will not be an opportunity as a resident to come and explain to the council how it would impact them and their neighborhood, because I'm a firm believer that there's property rights on both sides of the fence. The vacant lot, the owner of that lot, and also the people who have been living there have property rights that need to be honored and respected. So I guess my, my, my point really is I, I I would love to see R-6 development there and to see those homes be sold for your generation to purchase and start establishing families here in Orem. And to me, that's— that is the higher priority in our city right now, is to create opportunities for owner-occupied housing.

So yeah.

Thank you. That's my opinion.

Yeah, no. Yeah, no, I'll, I'll just say something real quick. Or you want to say something?

I can, if you'd like. Well, well, I'll make a motion, but I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll say my 2 cents and you can.

Thank you.

Um, I appreciate your time and your, your, your drive to keep coming back and Trying to get your project moving forward with the State Street Master Plan changed. Um, but my feeling is we have to keep the integrity of our neighborhoods. It's zoned R-6, and it needs to stay R-6 because that's what it is. And that's what I believe, that you could do some really nice homes with R-6, and it should pencil, and we'd have 6 new homes in Orem.

Thank you. Thank you.

And everything's pretty much been said. I, I'll just give you kind of the big picture from my perspective. When we talk about we need to do this one off or that one off, and we're 95% built out, and we're one of the densest cities in the state, you have to take a step back and say, what do you want your city to look like? Because let's say we move forward and, and in the name of affordability, we approve another 1,000 units. Well, now all of a sudden our streets are more crowded. You know, we can't get where we're going. This street that you're talking about, that's a virtual 1-lane street, even though it's supposed to be 2. I mean, we're going to make that worse. You know, we talk about putting 53 cars on a lot in the middle of what sounds like you can't even drive on. It just, it just doesn't make any sense because let's say we had 1,000 homes. We put them on, and then we have the conversation 3 years from now with someone who comes in and says we need to stack more to make it more affordable. Well, it's not more affordable. The denser it gets, the more expensive it is. Anyway, it's, it's just a road to nowhere. And so at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say, what do we want our community to be? I mean, we're at 42% rentals. Is that okay, or do we want more? And so I think what we've heard from the residents is that we've got enough traffic, we've got enough density, and we just need to improve the quality of life and, and somehow deal with this traffic at this point. And the solution is not adding more density. So anyway, that's my take.

Okay, Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that the city council deny the request to amend the text of Article 22-21. Special exception for the multifamily dwellings.

Second.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you. The resolution is denied. Thank you for coming. Let's move on. Uh, we've got item 10, which is financial information. That's just for informational purposes only. Uh, it's available on request. Item 10.1, monthly financial statement. And then item 11, city manager information items. So, Brent, if you'd like to let us know on that.

Just real quick, we put on your Uh, desks the latest citizen budget, and that's available hard copies at our help center for any citizens interested. And there's also an online version available. Um, as you know, we, we love that— this version because it makes the budget more accessible and transparent. Um, maybe just to put a bit of a bookend on, uh, on the moment of silence and the different topics that have been brought up today, I'll just Read just a portion of a— of our city Facebook post on the Taste of Orem event, wherein we posted, the Taste of Orem event has always been envisioned as a celebration of culture and connection. We're not hosting this event as a distraction, but rather as a chance to gather, find strength in community, and lean on each other. This will be an opportunity to celebrate our diverse community and celebrate our shared values.

Thank you.

opportunity to connect, support local businesses, and find a much-needed moment of peace together. Just want to report back to you briefly that we very much delivered on that intent and just had really rave reviews from the businesses that participated, from the residents that came and enjoyed that event. And, uh, and we, we had just We had ticket sales that were beyond our wildest hopes. And this was the first time we did this particular event.

And beyond some of the vendors' abilities. A lot of them ran out. It was fun to see that.

So it was wonderful that it was successful on a fiscal basis, but it was just so wonderful to just see so many happy faces that were brave enough to get out, get together, and prove that Orem is Family City, USA, and we are about unity. Unity and peace and coming together and finding strength in each other. Thanks.

And, and to have good music on Friday and Saturday. So there you go.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Bren. Yeah, the Taste of Orem was amazing. And it— I look at it like our farmers market, which has grown immensely this over the last year, year and a half, and now it's the biggest farmers market in the state. So Taste of Orem, it was a success its first year, and I expect there'll be many more to come. So awesome job.

Can I just ask one thing? So is it accurate that if you find stray tickets in your purse or in your wallet that you can go donate them to the Gold Star Family Monument?

That is correct.

We would still honor that. Yes.

Okay. Because some of us had eyes bigger than our stomach. And have a few tickets left over that I'm going to be donating.

Okay, would somebody like to make a motion to adjourn?

I move that we adjourn, Mayor. Okay, a second? Oh, okay, sorry, you're right. Okay, I forgot we're doing that. I mean, move that we adjourn to a closed session in the Summit conference room to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation The character or professional competence of an individual, or the purchase or lease of real property.

I second that.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

We're adjourned. Thank you for coming.