City Council · 2026-05-26

Yeah, this is a sound check.

Can you hear us?

Yes, I can hear you. Thank you.

We didn't see you.

Sarah, dinner.

I'd like to welcome you to our work session of today's City Council meeting on May 26th, 2026, and Thank you all. I've seen a lot of each other lately, the past few days. We've had some great things happen here, and it's been good, good to see you all and to celebrate the dedication of our Gold Star Family Monument and to reflect on our Memorial Day program. So our first item on the agenda is the continued discussion on the short-term rentals. 60 minutes has been allocated, 30 minutes presentation and 30 minutes Q&A. And before I turn the time over to Jake, I just want to thank you, Jake, for tackling all of this. And just know that you've looked at a lot of different options. I know that we don't— your job is to present us with a variety of options. And And we as a council consider those and appreciate you taking the time to go ahead and look at those. Some of those options may not be what we vision for the city, but it's not you saying we should do that. It's these are things that— these are possibilities, and, and I appreciate that. And council, I would like to ask that we save our questions until Jake is done with his presentation. I would like to have him have the opportunity to present what he has. And so if you wouldn't mind saving your questions until Jake says he's ready, he's going to facilitate the discussion after. And, and so if we could do that, that would—

Jeff, right here.

That would be great. So any questions on that before we get started? All right. Oh, I do those. So, all right, Jake, I'll go ahead and turn the time over to you.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, so to pick up where we left off from previous conversations about short-term rentals is a provision that could be included, um, that would address concerns that have been raised regarding The ability for short-term rentals to be used as a way to, um, provide student housing in a way that would be in violation of our current student housing ordinances. And one way we could address that is through requiring a dormant period for short-term rentals. Um, the way this is currently written, it is that for a period, for a monthly period, Sorry, for any monthly period, a short-term rental would have to sit vacant for 5 days. Those 5 days do not have to be consecutive 5 days, just 5 days during the period of the month. That still allows for an occupancy rate of short-term rentals in excess of 80%. Based on what I could research on different websites and what I've heard from short-term rental operators is they typically operate Between 56% and 70% occupancy. So, by and large, requiring 5 days that are non-consecutive days should not impact any short-term rental operator hugely financially. It may be something they may not like, but it would not necessarily have a large financial impact on a short-term rental operator. Again, this is just Non-consecutive 5. I just want to make sure that it's understood. Um, some of the pros again are it helps preserve the housing stock for long-term residents, because again, one of the ways you'd want to make sure that short-term rentals aren't being used as a way to provide student housing. Also, the negative side to this is it would increase a little bit of complexity about enforcement. It would require short-term rental operators to provide records of their bookings when they come in for renewal to show that they were in compliance with this provision. So again, adds a little bit of complexity, and that would be the negative on that. Another provision that we wanted to present to the council is there has been several individuals who've come in at personal appearances, or who've met with myself or city council members and have expressed, well, I thought I was doing everything right. I thought I had done what was required of me. I came in, I obtained a license. Albeit that license was for a rental dwelling license, which is different than a short-term rental license. But nonetheless, there was a request of, is there any sort of provision that could be put in place that would aid or help individuals that found themselves in that situation? And what we've crafted here is what we would consider a legacy status of those that could show the following, uh, that they were in prior operation, uh, prior to January 1st, 2025. Now, that date, um, I picked that date here and that we could subject to, obviously, the council. Um, but the reason I picked that date was by January 1st, 2025, there were already several ongoing discussions at council meetings and work sessions that I Short-term rentals were prohibited under our land use code. And so it would basically create a clean line between when the council was being educated on what the status of the law was, and when people had been operating, uh, by their perspective, in good faith. The 2nd is they could show some sort of documentation that they obtained a valid rental dwelling license from the city prior to January 1st, 2025. The 3rd is that they were in continuous activity, that they, they can show us that they listed the property. They had been using the property as a short-term rental on, on one of the platforms out there for these short-term rentals. And 4th, that they were in compliance with the tax provision, so they could provide us documentation showing they've been paying the transient room tax, sales tax, or any other appropriate tax needed to be. What that would allow them to do is potentially have them be exempted from a more onerous restriction as it came to density requirements. As we've talked about in previous work sessions, we've talked about short-term rentals being, you know, no closer than 1,000 feet together. And we've talked about potential numerical caps. What you could do is you could have a numerical cap of, say, 30 or 20 short-term rentals. And if those licenses have been used up, then you wouldn't be issuing any new licenses for non-owner-occupied short-term rentals. But what the legacy status would allow is somebody who falls into that category to still obtain their license. Because they fall into this category over and above those 20 or 30 caps. It provides them an exemption. Sorry. Yeah, I'm actually okay to answer a couple of questions here because this is a little bit more nuanced. So what would that number— what's the approximate number that potentially could be at that? So there's the 20 or 30 of the non, and then what would this, for example? I don't know that number. That number, um, could vary quite a bit.

Thank you.

Um, because we've never really tracked short-term rentals.

So, but so the scenario you're explaining, then you as a council could set density requirements.

Those would—

could be based on this part overruled by including some legacy status people. But you're— so you're, you're saying Legacy status is above and beyond, not already included in the density.

So, what this would do is it would provide an exemption to those that can fit within this legacy status. So, you choose Prohibition 1 density or numerical prohibition. And then if individuals— if the council were to choose to go this route, if individuals were able to show They fit within this category, then we would provide them a license, even though they would be otherwise restricted.

So, why wouldn't you already include it in the density? Have them be the 1st level already approved in the density numbers.

Part of the reason you would— you wouldn't do that is, um, you're going to have short-term rentals already that are in violation of that density. And then you just—

they lose their legacy. It's just like legal nonconforming. You just lose it once you stop doing it.

Correct. If they— if somebody was to lose their legacy status, they have their license revoked, or they fail to renew it, or they stop, or they sell the home, then they would lose that legacy status. And yes, from then going forward, if there's a density prohibition or numerical cap, they would whoever owned that, or if they were trying to re-up it, they would not be able to obtain that license again. What it does not provide is it does not provide any land use right. It doesn't create a transferable right, nor does it limit the city council's ability to come back and change the program or the requirements of this program. What we are trying to do, in essence, is provide some sort of equity or you know, fairness to situations where people feel like, you know, the city might be pulling the rug out from underneath them. Brian, did you have a question? Yeah, just that this— they'd still have to come up to all other standards that would be identified by the city, right? Correct.

I just want to clarify, since you said you would take questions. This, with the sale of the property, if it's over the cap, that is no longer allowed to be a short-term rental. So there's not going to be creating— we're not creating a market for legacy status short-term rentals to be sold.

Correct.

In the community, it's if you sell the property, then it's not going to— if the density, whatever it is, it's gone.

Correct, because this license is not a transferable license. None of the short-term rental licenses would be transferable. Okay, any other questions or desires for me to clarify what this provision may or may not do? Other than the legacy, would they be also required to pay the same annual fees that everyone else would, which will be quite a bit more than anything we've ever done before to cover the cost of our enforcement and everything else we have to deal with them? Yes. So, legacy status, uh, short-term rental operator would still have to annually obtain the short-term rental license. They would have to meet every other regulation on the books for short-term rentals, including the quiet hours, occupancy, parking requirements, all of those other things. Jeff, you had—

I'm gonna hold my question until later because it may be answered down the road.

So I'll be done.

I have a question. Um, can you just help me understand the logic of, or why the evidence of continuous listing on STR? Just how are you thinking about that?

The thinking is we want to make sure that these are individuals that truly were operating as a short-term rental, as opposed to an individual who came in, obtained a long-term Uh, long-term rental license and now want to convert over to a short-term rental operation.

Okay, thank you.

Um, as we talked about, one of the things, uh, the council had expressed was trying to make this be a sustainable, um, program. How do you make it sustainable? What are the costs, the actual costs that this program would cost, the city would incur? How do we fund this type of a program? I've worked with staff on management services, and we've identified, you know, potential positions that may be hired, need to be hired or expanded. And this really kind of depends a little bit on where the council wants to go, how How proactive the city council wants the city to go and how expansive the program becomes. If you go non-owner occupied, it's obviously going to be a much more expansive program than if it just stays at owner occupied, as opposed to also a ban. But looking at just the overhead salary costs, a level 1 NIT officer, the cost to the city would be roughly $65,000. For an associate planner, overhead would be $75,000. So, if you were to add 1 planner and 1 officer, and the reason you'd add a planner is to help with the inspections, the paperwork, the licensing, all of that's going to fall within the community development department. And then the officer, obviously, to help with enforcement, that comes to about $141,000. If you were to add 2 NIT officers and the planner, you're looking at closer to $210,000. Again, it really just depends on how many licenses. You could take that number divided by the number of projected licenses and say, well, this is the cost of enforcing and regulating the program. So our fee is going to be X. If you were to take that $210,000 and you're going to say roughly if we had 250, Just even taking the number that's been thrown out there for how many short-term rental, uh, rental operations are out there. That fee is going to be around the $800. So it's going to be substantially higher than what you see in the comparable cities. Um, so ways that we would try to validate is we would, we would pull our, our ordinance, we'd provide it to Lewis Robertson Birmingham, LRB. We'd have them do a fee study. What we'd want to do is, again, the rollout point is to pick and say, we think this is a fair number, a reasonable fair number to charge initially, and then we have LRB move forward and validate it for moving forward in ongoing years for what our fees should be to operate this type of a program. As you can see, fees vary quite drastically throughout the Wasatch Front. Lehigh being one of the lower at $190 and Logan being $575. Also, something to consider about Logan's is they also have a conditional use permit requirement over and above this license. So their fees— may want to put an asterisk next to that. They're probably a little bit higher. But then you notice the renewal fee drops off quite drastically for Logan. I don't know that that would be appropriate because this is something that we would want to have as an ongoing program. Enforcement is going to be ongoing. It's not just a 1-time inspection and everything is fine. Another thing to consider here is, as we move forward with this type of a program, is we want to make sure that any STR that is operating Is correctly identifying the property that is being used with the Utah County Tax Assessor. If, for example, they're living in the ADU portion and the primary residence is being short-term rented, it would be appropriate to make sure that that portion of the property is not receiving the primary residence exception under the property taxes. Likewise, if it is a whole home rental, again, we want to make sure that that home is being correctly represented on the tax records as a commercial investment, as opposed to a primary residence. That number gets a little bit, you know, it's not going to necessarily help with the financing the program itself, but it would be something that we'd want to make sure is reflected. For all taxpayers and their tax burden. So these are all of the very nuanced provisions that I wanted to go over. At this point, I wanted to identify the areas of consensus, where I believe we have consensus and where we may not have consensus. So I'm going to go back through the presentation. And as we have questions, feel free to ask the questions as we go. I want to ensure that we have a good bearing on where we want to go.

Jake?

Yes.

For the portion that you presented on, are questions on that portion appropriate now, or do you want— Yes, absolutely. I'll take any questions. Can you help me understand the 5-day dormancy requirement a little bit more? I just need to understand the logic. Of why we're worried about student housing there, and if we have evidence that that's been done before. That's question number 1. And I don't have any anecdotal evidence. I can't point you to one property that has been used as student housing. I'm just sensitive to those homes that are near UVU. And if somebody were to obtain a short-term rental, License and then artificially lower the rent in such a way, because I would say on a nightly basis, I don't think, you know, market— markets being what markets are, it would bear out that somebody would want to rent it nightly housing. But if somebody were to artificially lower that, so they could then, in essence, rent it out to 6 students. This would be a way to prevent that from happening. That is the thinking. There were concerns raised earlier in the drafting of the ordinance about somebody trying to use this as a way to circumvent our student housing zone. But we don't think that's happened yet. I haven't had any particular cases brought to our attention. And it's not really necessarily just student housing. It could be anybody. If we're setting our cap at 8 unrelated people occupancy, right now it's 3. Somebody could potentially use this as an end around to say, okay, I'm just going to start renting to 8 people. Requiring them to have the 5-day vacancies ensures that you can't really do that. It's really truly a short-term rental.

And how did you come to 5 days versus 2 or 3 or 10?

I was looking at the— what I could see doing research online as to what the average occupancy rates are. for short-term rentals and trying to use the natural occupancy rate that already exists out there so as to not negatively impact short-term rental operators. But 5 days would, would in essence prevent somebody from renting long-term, but not necessarily financially impact a short-term rental operator.

Would this be for just non-owner occupied, or would it be owner occupied as well?

This would mean either.

Or both?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

One piece of data I would like to get if we can is that I know platforms like Airbnb have a monthly rental option where you can rent for a whole month, right? And that would essentially preclude that option if we did this. And I would just be interested in knowing how many of our STR operators actually use that. If it happens. If it doesn't happen, then, and with the occupancy rates you're talking about, maybe it doesn't matter to them. But I could imagine a world in which it might matter to them. Thanks for being thoughtful about that. A second question is on the other piece. Yeah, the legacy. Sorry, the— no, not the legacy status. The next one. Code enforcement. How did we come up with an estimate that we might need another NIT officer and another associate planner? I'm just trying to figure out how we do the labor math on that. And you mentioned that we don't have an ordinance, so it might be hard to calculate, but I'm just curious as to the logic behind that. Going off of current caseload for our NIT officers, if we were to open this regulation, I would anticipate we would need 1 NIT officer at least to field additional phone calls, emails, and compliance calls. That just is a natural feel based on talking to our NIT officers as well as Um, Jenica's team put together as far as caseload. Associate planner, um, maybe Gary can speak to this, but with our licensing, I would anticipate this would be an increased resource needed within the community development office.

It really depends on the direction the council goes. If you have a licensing program with, uh, Short-term rentals, and it's short-term rentals alone. If there are annual inspections and things like that, probably wouldn't have NIT that they would be handling the enforcement. I would need a planner in who would help with business licensing to do some of that. Uh, so it depends on the regulations that the council puts on. If it's just get a license and we never think about it again, then not, probably not. But if it's let's do inspections, let's have things like that, and if we increase it to doing some sort of rental licensing that's a little beyond what we're doing now, then Yeah, we'll, we'll need somebody. So it's up to you.

Okay.

If I could just say, way before I move on to the question, is, um, as we've talked about different provisions, some of the things that we've talked about here are parking plan. We would want somebody in community development if that was a requirement to put eyes on that parking plan and make sure that it truly is a functioning, working parking plan. Um, our ordinance does contemplate inspections. Um, it also contemplates coordination with validating or corroborating property records to make sure that they're the owner if we're doing owner occupied. So I think there really would be a pull on community development to have an associate planner there to put eyes on those. And if I may add to that, Jake, I mean, this isn't completely without some precedent. When we did our landlord licensing process for many years ago, we added a couple of personnel. Now, I'd also say we're not trying to suggest this is going to be locked in, right? Like, we'll— we always do. We'll evaluate the process. The process, and we'll map it out, and we'll— and if there are software solutions that help with that, of course, we'll look at that. You know, maybe it's hiring 2 seasonal NIT code enforcement instead of 1 full— you know, we'll go through that detailed assessment, and we'll lean on LRB to help make sure that there is a rational nexus between the costs and the fee. That's good. The thing that I was trying to figure out in my head is how much of this is already happening within IT, right? And versus how much burden are we now expecting put on that is not being done right now? So that for us too, there are some unknowns there, but also we're trying to anticipate there could be some efficiencies gained if, if what is decided by the council on the short-term rentals affects how we license long-term rentals as well. And so there, there could be some joint work in that regard. And so then some of the costs could be spread across both of those fee revenues in that event.

I think that I appreciate this. I think one of the concerns that I've heard from the community is that if we did do short-term rentals, that we don't have currently have the bandwidth to do the level of enforcement or license or regulation. This is a very regulatory intense process, especially if, if the council adopts something involving the legacy, because at that front end, you're going to have a lot of people coming in trying to provide information to show that they are— that they were in existence before. And then going forward, you are going to have a lot of, a lot of regulatory work. And I think that it's important to have that regulatory work. I also think that it's important that those who have short-term rentals bear the financial burden of having that regulatory work because They're, they're the ones who are— have— that's, that's the use that has created this extra workload. And I think that they need to, they need to pay for that.

Jeff, and I have a— one of my questions that, that would attach to that is, so with, with the fees, um, would those who have enforcement infractions Obviously, they're going to pay for those infractions, right? So would that be taken into account for the upfront? We don't know what that's going to be, right? We hope that they're— in a perfect world, there would be no infractions. Um, so would that just be— I guess my question is, that money would not focus on the upfront cost, that would just be additional for continued enforcement above and beyond what we're already planning on.

I think you'd also have to identify that there's going to be other added costs by the enforcement itself. The minute that we cite somebody and then we end up going to the ALJ, we're also paying for an administrative law judge to hear that case. And so those fees that we collect through the ALJ don't necessarily always cover the cost of the ALJ process itself.

And then I guess that was the next step of that question. So these fees would then cover the other outward ripples, right, from that enforcement for the infraction?

Right. Okay.

Can I ask another question going back to the 2-tier regulation? What about the case of an heir? If a mother and father willed that home to a child, Would that be transferable?

Not currently, as I have it drafted. Again, if the council were wanting to go that direction, but I would— again, I would define it as any transfer of the property, that there is no transference of that right, that that new owner, whether it be an heir or a new buyer, has to come in and apply for that license separately as themselves.

But then if the new buyer comes in— oh, never mind. That's— you're talking about if it wasn't a short-term rental to begin with.

No, I'm talking about if it was a short-term rental.

Then the new buyer just gets put into the bottom of the list, and then as licenses, they don't get any preference because of the legacy status.

Along those lines, what if the home is in a trust?

So we, we account for that currently in our definition of an owner. If you are beneficiary trust and you have 51% interest in that trust, then you could count as an owner.

Whoa, hold on a minute.

Back up the truck.

Because oftentimes people will put their property into the trust.

So then we've totally lost our licensing ability because it is now a financial— it is now a business venture that can be willed and transferred through a trust. So we, we have lost our licensing ability.

At the time the license is created, if it is in a trust and it's in their name, it's tied to the person that's the trustee. So I'm not—

yeah, multiple trustees.

You're saying if one trustee has 51%, we come back to our definition of it here. So this is— so they would have to, at the time they obtain their license, They would have to show that property's in a trust and that they have over 50% interest in that trust.

As the beneficiary?

As the beneficiary.

What if you have multiple beneficiaries and together they make 50%? Does it have to be a single beneficiary?

It has to be a single beneficiary.

Sorry.

Oh, is that a loophole?

I don't believe so. We use that definition elsewhere, so—

Well, but we're establishing a financial venture in perpetuity.

No, we are not.

If—

how are we not?

Steve, you want to— Yeah, I actually think this is a fairly good question because The other person that's— Yes, I mean, let's take a typical situation where you maybe have a family trust, let's say, and, you know, 2 parents, mother and father, you know, they set up a trust and usually they're the beneficiaries until they die. And then, you know, the kids become the beneficiaries. And sometimes those trusts can keep operating even after the initial beneficiaries die, right? I think that's the situation you're kind of talking about. Could that trust continue to you know, run an Airbnb short-term rental even after the 2 principals have passed on?

That's the question.

Maybe we need to just better define in that scenario that even if the trust is still in existence, if the primary beneficiaries or the original beneficiaries have passed on, then that right is lost. It doesn't— the trust doesn't get to continue operating.

I'd be comfortable with that.

That would be an option. I'm not saying do that. I'm just saying that's an option.

Preferred. Otherwise, everybody just puts them in a trust, and then you have all these homes that are in trust, and we can't regulate. We're stuck.

It could last for a long time.

Every time they change beneficiaries, would that revoke their rental license then?

Well, I mean, that, that's something we could, we could address it that way if you wanted to.

I know a community that they required you to be the trustor and the beneficiary. So, for instance, my wife and I, if we wanted to do this, we would create the McGinn Family Trust. We would both be trustors because we own the home, and we would be beneficiaries of that trust for estate planning purposes. My children, they may be beneficiaries, but they would not be the trustor. And so you have to fill both roles. So there's ways around this to make it. work if that's a concern.

That's not a concern for me. I don't know, is it a concern from folks? I think having good language would make it less concerning.

Any other questions?

I have some questions. Will you go to your fees slide? So NIT officers, so that's got to be just salary, that's not including benefits.

That is—

I feel like we need to include the cost of an employee.

That is the overhead for salary and benefit for starting an IT Officer 1. So that's pay and benefits, right? So pay them $20, $25 an hour and then their benefit, they don't have They're not a post-certified police officer. They don't have the same retirement.

So— That is super low.

That is what our— these are the numbers I obtained from our militia team. So yes. I think the point is that I think we're going to look at have LRB do an analysis because we don't know if it's really going to take full-time people or if it's going to be a third or half-time or whatever. They'll do that analysis. They'll take the numbers. So these aren't set in stone.

Okay.

What I'm trying to show by these numbers is potential costs.

So if my benefits for my salary are 3 times, if I end up with 3 times what my original salary is, how is— what is their salary only?

I would look it up for you, but I don't want to necessarily go into— why am I sharing my screen?

I mean, you see my question here. I'm really—

the number I'm presenting here is both salary and benefits.

And for the planner, I can tell you that's— that looks right to me as a planner 1, step 1, very low entry level, adding their benefits. Benefits usually are close to a third more.

So I get it. So maybe we should do a 5-year employee, someone who— because, you know, I guess you're saying we put people here and then as they prove themselves, they advance.

And we can raise the fee. Yeah, I think— but yeah, you're— that's a good point.

We need—

just need to make sure it reflects what we're paying.

Averages— should we use an average cost?

Mayor, I was just going to say, for the fire prevention fees, we adjust the cost every single year based off the increased scale with the STEP program with our inspectors.

Oh, okay. So it's something we already do.

As long as that's transparent for these licenses. I just want to be— I just don't want them to think that, you know, oh, the fee jumped up 20%. Well, because our employee is now worth more and they're paying them more.

And again, yeah, this is just a starting point. We'll want to go through and make sure that we're doing it in the most efficient and effective way too. It may be that it's best to get a few seasonal or part-time Code enforcement rather than 1 full-time, right? We may be able to get more done that way. We just haven't done that analysis yet.

Right.

Again, what I was trying to prove, and I guess not have done very well here, is even at entry level with 2 individuals or 3 individuals, that fee that we would impose on a short-term rental is going to be substantially higher. Than the comparable fees. Okay, that's what I wanted to show.

Perfect.

And my other question, so just to clarify, because I've had these questions, um, this fee, even though our NIT is under our police, this will not be coming out of our public safety fund. This will be paid under what fund? Development services? How are we paying this?

If— I mean, obviously the associate planner would come out of General fund there. And I'm not sure what bucket of money that is. That also general fund. We put the code enforcement officer under police, and so that would be paid for through the special revenue, public safety special revenue fund. But the revenue source—

But we'll have the transparency showing that they are paying themselves. Yes, that's just the question.

Yeah, we would identify the revenue source would be this fee, the short-term, this landlord licensing fee.

Then your legacy status, go to that slide, please. So valid, where was the valid renting license?

Showed that they already had a valid documentation at number 2, documentation of valid City of Orem rental dwelling license.

Okay, so is that different from being certified as an ADU?

Uh, it is an ADU license, or an ADU— what do we call it? A license for ADU or ADU approval is very different than the rental dwelling license.

I'm going to talk about those 2 just so we're informing our public here. You can have an ADU and not have a long-term rental license because we charge a one-time fee. You just explained how that works. So, on the record for that.

Gary, would you explain the process? Because I'm not as familiar with the ADU licensing process.

Yeah, with the ADU process, you come in and, uh, let's say you're the single-family home, you live there, you want to create an ADU in your home. You come in, you make an application, we go in and, and that we have requirements in the code that that ADU needs, needs to meet. We'll go in, we'll do a zoning review of it. We do a building code review of it. And then at the end of that process, you can get a license. It's a licensed ADU, but the intent of it is not for short-term rentals less than 30 days. It's 30 days or longer.

Is. So when—

I was just saying, but that license is different. That is just the permission to separate the property.

Then they—

2 dwellings.

But then they pay a rental license every year. Correct. So, um, that's our land license.

That's 30 days long.

But is that— help me remember, is that for the basement ADUs, or did we pass something where they only pay that once?

Correct.

So we need to change that then.

I suppose it's been switched to a short-term rental.

So how are they showing that they—

It's owner occupied.

How, how, how are the owner occupied? How are you going to delineate them? Because they haven't paid every year. They don't— they're not gonna be able to document. They're gonna document—

What we are requiring here is not the ADU license. We are requiring the rental dwelling license.

Okay, perfect. So, if it's an owner occupied and they're using their ADU, they should have obtained a dwelling license. Okay, thank you for clarifying that.

Well, you know, 3 years old since—

But they did it. Well, oh, go ahead.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Wait a minute. So, um. Do we not require rental licenses to be renewed?

We do. We require— Not if it's a loophole, is what I'm trying to say. Not if the owner occupied it, but if you're renting the whole home, it is an annual $55 rental dwelling license.

But in this, they would still be able— they should still be able to meet 1, 3, and 4.

I would anticipate they still, even if they're renting the basement, they still should be able to meet 1, 2, 3, and 4. Okay, so I guess I'm thinking Out here.

We'll fix that problem with the ADU not having to get a rental license every year by them having to prove that they were a short-term rental, because they're going to be doing 1, 3, and 4, providing documentation for 1, 3, and 4. If— thank you.

Now then, I'm going to clarify this. If they are operating or had operated as a short-term rental prior to January 1st, 2020, 5, for them to get a legacy status, they would have to show all 1, 2, 3, and 4, regardless if it was a whole home or if it was a basement unit.

So they have to meet all 4.

And my last thing here. So this, you started off by saying, you know, this is for the people that said, I thought I was doing everything right. Fairness status regulation is what this one is, basically. So I guess I'm just gonna make a comment. I think that people living in the neighborhood, buying a home in a neighborhood that they thought was homes, residential, not commercial enterprises, also thought they were doing everything right. buying their home in the right place. And I'm just thinking of the woman who said she has short-term rentals on both sides of her, you know, so this will essentially— or, and the other woman who said she had 3 on her street. So this essentially gives no relief to those people because we're— we are grandfathering them in.

Well, no, we are not grandfathering them in. There is no legal nonconforming right here. So it's not a grandfathering. This would be providing an exemption to— if you were to go to the non-owner occupied option. And this would only grant an exemption to density and the numerical cap. It doesn't— and that's also assuming that all 3 of those on that 1 street also had come in and reobtained a rental dwelling license. Um, so there, there are ways that this still is Curbing or pausing the growth of short-term rentals that are non-owner occupied, while also giving olive branch or mercy to those who thought that they were offering or operating lawfully.

So what we could do too, I know we've talked about this before. I think, I think it was when we met. I think it was, I think, Renee, it was when you and Jake and I met. I can't remember who, which council member it was, but I mean, Tweak this a little bit. So we could do, as a council, say, since we don't know how many legacy rentals there are, but if we set a cap of, let's say, 20, we're just going to have 20 non-owner-occupied rentals in the city, short-term rentals. Then there are ways, there are vehicles. We talked about a lottery. We talked about how those who— meaning those who meet 1 through 4, put their name in a hat. And, and then it's so— it's not a— it doesn't have to be everybody necessarily, but it doesn't have to be nobody. It's— we, we as a council can decide what we're comfortable with on the non-owner occupied.

And density could also be taken into that consideration. Location.

Location. Yeah.

So, Jen, I'm going to just ask, because Jen's not here in person, do you have any questions?

Thank you for that.

No, I don't currently have questions. I'm just listening to the discussion.

Thank you.

Okay. Can I just— anybody else have questions so far about what new information Jake has presented to us today before he goes back? He's got, got what, about 12 minutes, 15? You know what, we started late. Got about 15 minutes. Left. I know you want to go back through the slides and try and reach some consensus on some issues.

Okay, with that, um, I, I'm going to give my perspective here and put myself out on the ledge as your trail guide, so don't push me over the ledge. But I view, um, the council as being in 3 very distinct Um, I feel that there are council members that are in camp 1, which is to maintain a prohibition or to clarify that prohibition. I feel that there's a 2nd camp that is in the middle that feels very comfortable in allowing owner-occupied short-term rentals. And then I feel that there's a 3rd camp, which is more open to a broad regulation, allowing non-owner-occupied and owner-occupied. I don't believe that any one camp has a majority or consensus approach at this point. Is that— does anybody disagree with that statement?

Okay.

Where there is no objection or disagreement, I do believe that this is the foundational question that has to be resolved, because I think the other questions that are there will answer themselves as we move past that foundational question. I do believe that there is consensus as to qualitative controls, quiet hours, 24/7 response requirements, enforcement mechanisms. There may be small discrepancies as to how much a fine should be if it's not high enough. There may be some smaller discrepancies in how we approach parking, Or, or density. But I think this is the number 1 question. I think the other number 2 question is, how do we address occupancy within whichever road you take? With that being said, I am happy to come back to the council at a council meeting with competing ordinances. If that is the desire of the council to move forward, I'm happy to work with council members to craft a compromise ordinance. If that is the approach, I do view— and again, this is me standing on the ledge. I do believe there is potential consensus in the area of owner occupied. I do believe that there is willingness to compromise amongst council members to get to an owner-occupied regulation. There may be a group of council members that are willing to expand beyond owner-occupied to allow a limited version of non-owner-occupied and owner-occupied. Is that a fair statement? Is there any objections to what I've just laid out?

So you asked 2 things there.

Okay, let me ask— let me ask them as separate questions. Is there a group of council members who would want to see owner-occupied-only version of an ordinance?

Yes, it would depend on how big the options— how many would I am firmly in option 2. And looking over at option 3, but with a very, like, like 20 at the moment, just very, very limited baby steps.

So let's, let's go tiny bit. Is there willingness of the council to come back for me with an only, only owner-occupied ordinance?

I'm in favor.

So if I could just maybe just Chris, how do you feel about that? You know, I'm leaning towards very limited, but allowing some of the other. Okay, Crystal, you, I believe, shook your head yes, affirmative. Renee, same. Mayor?

Probably would probably lean toward the owner occupied only.

Okay, Jeff?

Leaning towards owner occupied, but I would be willing to listen to The discussion about a little bit of wiggle room.

That's to owner-occupied only. I'm interested in an ordinance that allows limited numbers of non-owner-occupied if they meet certain criteria.

Okay.

And then what's Jen?

Yeah, I'm also interested in looking at the 3rd option within limited criteria.

With that said, is it the council's desire for me to come back at a council meeting with those 2 competing ordinances for consideration?

I would like a vote on option 1, council to vote on option 1 also.

On the prohibition?

Oh, on a flat— okay, do you like to ask the same question, but just saying, is anybody in favor of option 1?

Correct.

Okay, okay, let's—

so, so those 2, the council would be wanting me to do that. Okay, with that, is there any council members that want me to bring forward a prohibition ordinance to compete with the other 2? Um, I can— I'll just go through the list. Chris? No.

Yes.

Yes.

No.

No.

No.

Jen?

Nope.

So where there's not 4, I don't anticipate bringing that forward and just coming with the 2 competing ordinances. How does the group feel about just those 2? I'm seeing some shaking heads. I'm seeing—

Okay, I mean, I want to see what you bring.

I'm in favor of that. I'm in favor of being able to look at Yeah, we can get both.

Okay.

With that process, um, how am I on time?

About 10 minutes.

Um, with that process, um, is it still the council's desire to have a public hearing with— well, actually, let me take one step back. Do you want that conversation to take place in a work session, or you want that conversation to take place in the regular council meeting? We'll get more done in a work session. Okay, Quinn, Jeff, I agree with that.

I think we're just— I think we need to get a few more things ironed out before we go to the public, because I do want the public to weigh in.

Okay, Renee?

Yeah, I'd like to see the— we've just, you know, talked about all kinds of things. Let's funnel it down and get specific.

So you feel the same?

I, I'd like to see— I'd like to have more discussion in the work session. I would also like to be in City Council session before get to a vote.

Yeah, Chris, agreed. Jan?

Yeah, I think we need more discussion, and I think the work session is probably more productive.

Okay, so, um, with that said, when would the council like me to come back with those 2 competing ordinances to be considered in the work session.

When could you—

when is our next work session?

It's not the— it's not the 9th because that's our budget and draft and warm fest.

Um, June 23rd.

June 23rd. next?

June 23rd.

Is that enough time for you, Jay? Okay, you can make the 23rd happen.

So if I make one request, I would like to get your slides a week before.

I would like to get the ordinance drafts to both— for both out to the councils for consideration well before.

At least 8 days. I need like— I Holiday weekend or something, it's really hard to prep for council. Unless I'm working on my weekends.

So, will your ordinance draft include in one of the, or both of the ordinances, as far as occupancy, a square footage option?

Yes.

Okay.

Is there so, um, Where I've got just a few minutes, I want to clarify each proposed ordinance just briefly. For owner occupied, is there anything in particular that the council is looking for in an owner occupied only regulation that they would like to see that has been discussed or has not been discussed? Of those provisions that we've talked about, is there something—

ADU, make it require an ADU?

Is there any strong feelings that you want to make sure is included?

I would like to see that owner must be in residence when the short-term rental is being rented out.

So maybe it's owner-occupied, but they're traveling a lot of the year or whatever.

So you want to— you want an owner, you want to visit the physical presence of somebody upstairs or wherever on the property available if there's a problem.

I'd like it to be a certified ADU, so not a boarding house model. Anything to not have a boarding house model. So you'd have to have an ADU. Permit plus a short-term license.

For the other competing warrants, um, as some council members have expressed, they are open to it, but with extreme guardrails. What are those extreme guardrails that council members are looking for for the competing warrants? Maximum 20.

Thanks so much.

20 in the entire city. 20 within the city number. Yeah, so like 0.01%. Well, I don't know the percent. I just— 20 max for non-owner occupied. I'm interested in up to 1% residences.

And I would say, um, that that is spread out among the neighborhoods.

So density requirements.

Yes.

So one area isn't bearing the brunt of something.

I also support density.

And that— I don't— I'm not comfortable with 3 strikes.

I'm more comfortable with 2 strikes under that.

The stakes, if we do non-owner occupy, the stakes need to be very, very high for the owners.

And I'd also like to look at the fines.

For it, if we're sending it to be a fine, it should be commensurate with the rental price of the property and not a flat fee for anybody. I think you have a minimum, maybe, and then escalates according to the value of the, of the rental, because otherwise over $5,000.

Okay, so, so just be a multiplier, aren't you?

$100 a night. Your fee should not be commensurate with something that's renting for $700 a month.

Gotcha.

Okay.

So I'm going to disagree with that in a sense that I think we should have a flat fee, $500 or $1,000, whatever we had there, and then it goes up based on the value of the profit, you know, the rental opportunity. I might even be okay with that minimum, and then kicker, because otherwise they just pay the Wait 3 years or 5 years and then get—

But I also—

Either of those guardrails.

I also want to know what does constitute a strike?

Is it a complaint that's been gone through, verified, and then that's kind of what I envision, one that's gone through the process that has been like a verified proven complaint.

But I want that laid out.

Yeah, it needs to be laid out.

Yeah, so everybody, clarity to that, transparency.

Yeah, and to that, I just— I'm, I'm— I just don't know what to do about this because I don't want to have to have our police verify. Because I know I've had people say, I called dispatch, they said the police don't come out for something like that, 10 PM, 11 PM, 2 AM, you know, obviously because they're busy doing other So how do we— are we going to pay for an NIT officer to be on call? Um, because our police should not be really handling that kind of stuff.

That's a good question.

What's the scenario?

So someone calls in a short-term rental violation at 2 AM, they call dispatch, and dispatch is like, yeah, our officers are busy right now.

I wouldn't want them going out if it was a code violation, but if it was a criminal violation, noise complaint, or disturbing disorderly conduct type stuff, oh yes, we would respond to that. But the code enforcement part is more difficult.

Well, let me ask you this then. So the lights turn on at 3 AM when the, when the tenant checks in. So I call and I'm like, the lights are on right now shining in my bedroom, yada yada. They didn't take care of this. Does that have to be verified by a police officer, or does that complaint count?

You see what I mean?

I mean, I don't know how to—

It comes down to a little bit of, yes, it would count. Here's the problem is one of the things we've heard ongoing is neighbors don't want to have to come in and testify against neighbors. Yeah, but then who is our witness? So that's why we'd have an officer go out and confirm or corroborate, and then the officer can be the one that testifies. So we've, we've worked through different ways that an on-duty officer could go out, make the observation, make the, you know, knock and talk, and then leave, refer the case to NIT for follow-up investigation. Um, there are ways to do that. Yes, does it take manpower off of patrol? It does. Respond to barking dog calls too.

Yeah, but I'll just give an example of Timpanogos parking lot, the kids doing all the wheelies and stuff. It took like several calls because you guys were busy doing other things and that was not a priority.

We responded 32 times and did several great things.

But I'm saying there were— I got complaints. Well, they never came. I called it and I'm like, they're police officers, they're doing other things, you know. So I'm just saying that scenario could happen. How do we— while we're coming up with this process, come up with a solution to it so it's not—

I mean, Right now I don't see one. We would need to respond and to do just that, to verify it. And yeah, back to the Timpanogos Park, I, I— we responded 32 times, and on the 33rd we issued a citation and received complaints because we were being too strict. And we're like, well, we've been here 32 times telling you please not be here. And so There's gonna be times where we don't get there to observe the violation because we were elsewhere. We would respond.

So how do we solve that as a council? To me, I don't want it to be on you. I don't want you to get the bad press because you didn't show up while the violation was happening. Can we do maybe that? And I'm just thinking out loud, maybe that's an on-call NIT. Certain. It's a criminal—

if it falls in the criminal code, I see what you're saying, but if it's— yeah.

Then we can do on storms. It needs to be built into the fees that they pay to cover the costs of mitigating those kinds of things.

Otherwise, we're doing it to the neighbors again. The neighbors carry the brunt of it.

It's just hard. It's hard to figure out at the end of the day, how do we make sure that we're operationally efficient too? Because they only get one of those calls a week. Well, it's not best to have be low priority for our police officers. And, and if we can come up with other ways to build evidence when, when there's a violation, then exhaust the other ways to evidence.

Like a video? Do you get videos from people? House party, right?

As long as the neighbor is willing to cooperate with our process, then yes. Exactly. Problem is where the neighbor Then says, well, I don't want to be known, I don't want to be involved, but I want the problem to go away. That puts us in that quandary of we still need somebody to lay the foundation for that. And if we have to have a post officer come out, we need to calculate how many times they come out and how many man-hours that is and make sure that that's in the budget through this process. Which we'd be able to do. So again, We'll set an initial fee, and then we'll engage with— and then time will tell. Statistics will evaluate. Fees will be accordingly, and you just move on. But you need to eventually be covered for what citizens are asking for. City would be our intent. And let me ask one last question of where is the group on the legacy status as a rate? To the non-owner occupied. Where does the council feel on the legacy status clarification on that request? So, in other words, Jake, the legacy status could be applied to both ordinance options. On, uh, let's see, only for limited—

there was a— I don't think we had a limit on non-owner occupied, did we?

So there is no limit on the owner-occupied. Excuse me. Legacy status wouldn't necessarily come into play for owner-occupied unless you were going to still allow legacy status for non-owner-occupied in the owner-occupied, even though we're not allowing owner-occupied.

Legacy status has to go.

So in my, in my mind, the way I framed it in my mind, it is legacy status would only apply If the council was willing to extend the regulation to allow for non-owner occupied.

Okay, so there'd be no legacy status in owner occupied.

So there is a version, Jake, right, of owner occupied with legacy status for non-owner occupied, but no new non-owner occupied.

So, I'm sorry, I don't remember discussing owner not having limits on owner occupied. Because I think it's important that we preserve our ADU housing option and have a balance there too in our community.

Maybe I need you to clarify, Lenee. I'm not sure I follow that.

Not limiting, not having any type of limit to ADUs, the owner-occupied. can cause housing supply issues. So we want— we want a density requirement, density owner up there.

Yes, but I think if we have the ADUs, I think that's going to limit that to an extent because there's an expense involved in becoming—

I'm just saying, my child's living in Springville because she couldn't find anything here.

So, again, I can provide that as an option for the owner-occupied ordinance if the council wants to adopt the density restriction or a numerical cap. If an owner-occupied— but it has not been a basic part of the conversation for the owner-occupied. If that is an option that you want to see included in the owner-occupied, we can provide that option.

Okay.

I was just gonna say, did you get your answer and guidance on the, uh, the legacy status? No, I didn't. So thanks for asking everyone.

I don't know how I feel about that yet because I don't know how I feel because I'm in camp owner-occupied. So I have to Think about—

yeah, yeah, because you're like, if I have to, if that's going to happen, I want to have some say in it.

But I do.

Yeah, but I don't want that non-owner occupied to happen. I want to be— yes.

Our artificial conundrum.

Okay, I will then prepare an option for that to be considered for option 2, for the non-owner.

I don't know.

Do we have 4 that wants to do that? I'm not in favor of a legacy option.

I would like to see it. Okay.

I just want to look at it to see. And I'm with the mayor. I'm in the camp of non-owner occupied. But if there were some circumstances that it made sense, I'm not opposed to looking at that as an option.

But I'd—

yeah.

I guess I want to understand, but also based on density. Maybe let's talk privately because I would like to understand circumstances that make sense. You know, if, if there's something that you're thinking of, I would love to have that discussion if we don't have time today.

And there may not be such a circumstance, but if we've told somebody one thing and we're something different, if there's a circumstance That would make sense. I'm not opposed to considering that.

Oh, is that a yes?

That's a really big wishy-washy. Yes, I would like to look at that as an option.

I'm wishy-washy with him.

Okay.

I'm glad to see you.

Wishy-washy. I say no legacy.

Wishy-washy.

Okay.

The heat that we've got, is he wishy-washy?

I just want to see it. I just want to—

I just want to see it as an option. I just want to— not that I'm going to support it necessarily. I just want to see it as an option and give me more information.

There may be an existing, um, that's non-owner occupied that would meet every criteria and have been perfect in the application. So we— I just want to see it so that if there is that circumstance, we're not just saying, you know, owner occupied, you're out. I want to see it. It's the only reason I want to see it.

For instance, we've heard from people that live next door. to their short-term rental.

And with that said, then, Jen?

Yes, I'm interested in looking at that as well.

Okay, thanks.

So I will prepare that. Okay, now I feel like I have a clear direction to come back to competing ordinances for you to then push me off.

One more request. In your ordinance, when we— and this is the council to ask this question— when he comes back with the ordinance, I would like to take the time to go point by point And have us make decisions instead of relying on our past conversations. Let's just hammer it out. Is that what you're anticipating?

I would present option 1, talk through it, and yes, if you want to hammer it out then, or if you— again, I would anticipate I'd have direction. There's support for this provision, or there's not support for this provision.

Can I ask just a procedural question for you, Steve? Because I'm going to play— I'm kind of new still. How much decision can we make in a work session?

You can't make a final decision. So you can give guidance and direction. So I think essentially what you would be telling Jake at the next meeting is we would like this to be in the draft ordinance that's going to go first to the council, then to the planning commission, then back to council.

Gotcha. Okay. I just want to make sure I understand.

You're still free to change your mind, even if you tell him I would like this in the draft. At any point in the process, you're still free to change your mind and say you want something else.

Okay, thank you.

You have competing suggestions under one point in the draft?

Well, I think he's probably going to be going on a majority suggestion, if you will, as to what he puts in the draft.

Absolutely.

And then there obviously could be discussion, you know, in the city council meetings and the planning commission to change or modify that. Okay, well, thank you. Um, feel free to push me off the cliff now. Jake's been a very great guide. And also, thank you, Mayor, for going through this difficult process of taking this step by step. I, I know it's been kind of painful. Also, we are making progress, though. I'm a big fan of focusing. I think exec staff and employees get sick of me saying Progress over perfection. We're making progress. So thank you.

I didn't like you saying you were at the cliff, at the ledge. You know, you're the— they're the leader.

Don't leave.

We'll come rescue you, Jake. Thank you, Jake. All right, our next item on our agenda is, um, Lieutenant Jameson, Know Your Fours. And I'm taking it's not like the Star Wars Not quite, but still a very important force. So you have 15 minutes for that, and 10-minute presentation and 5-minute Q&A.

All right. Well, thank you, Mayor, City Council. I know we've been trying to get this for a few weeks, and hopefully I can get through it quickly so you guys can get back on your agenda. But you are part of our agenda, and you need All right, so Know Your Force is our, it's a feedback system that we use for the community that allows individuals to be able to actually give surveys on officers through their interactions. The majority of what we use it for is our traffic stops, which is the majority of our interactions with individuals. So when we have a, we pull somebody over, give them a citation, even if it's a warning, there's a QR code that is actually affixed to that citation. So they can take a picture of it and they can go through a series of 3 questions, as well as they can ask additional, or they can put additional comments. And this isn't necessarily just for positive praise, and I'll show you guys some examples in just a minute, but it's also for criticisms that you have on them. And you'll notice on all of our patrol vehicles, there's also a QR code on the very back. So this is an example of one of our vehicles that we have. And so on the right-hand side, there should be a QR code. On the left-hand side, sorry, the QR code, and then on the right-hand side, there's actually the number of the vehicle. So it's an identifier to be able to identify which officer this is relevant to. So this is kind of the basis of how we can get this information out. We also have business cards, and on our business cards, there's the QR code. And again, it all comes to Know Your Force. This was established in 2021, I believe, the Previous chief met with a gentleman by the name of Scott Lowry, who's local here, and this is kind of his baby, and we've been working with him, and he's been a great partner, and we've been able to give him some good ideas to kind of help grow his business as well too. So the needs that we needed within our department. So the 3 questions, and this is the QR code, you can actually take a picture of it and you can see firsthand, but I provided you the questions for you. So the first one is, please rate your interaction. And so this is just a generic question. Just rate your interaction out of 4 out of 5 stars. They're able to go on, on the right-hand side. You can kind of see how that is. If you pull it up on your phone, that's the way it basically is. You can kind of notate what your rating is per question. Question number 2 is based on your interaction. How comfortable would you be with our officers providing service to a family member? So again, this is just based on cumulative rating. Please share with us your compliments and concerns. So those are the 3 questions that we have. So it's kind of basic. We don't want people to have to spend a lot of time on it. We just want to get to the nitty-gritty. And then also, if they want to provide their contact information, they can. If they don't, they don't have to. But for some things, especially if there's like a complaint issue, we want to make sure we're able to reach out to them and try to make sure there's some form of disposition if there's a concern. And so with that information, um, so far, I pulled these numbers last week, we've had 686 citizens that have actually responded. We have a 4.1 average rating out of 5 stars, and 77.3% of the responses were positive. And so that's good. It shows that we're not padding because you're going to have some people, as you'll see, it doesn't really matter if they have an opportunity to speak, they'll speak, especially if they can be anonymous. And you'll be able to see. So let's look through them. So our breakdown of our submissions, 1 star. So if someone just gave us 1 star, mind you, it's the cumulative of all of the questions that we've asked.

Yes.

We had 105 out of that breakdown. 2 stars, 23. 3 stars, 28. 4 stars, 49. But I'm proud to say that out of all of the stars, 5, the highest that you can get, that's the majority of where our ranking is. And so that shows that our officers are doing a great job, and it shows that the people that are participating are giving us the accolades that our officers deserve. So some examples of some of the 1-stars, again, they can create their comments. So the officer was rude. Officer was speeding on State Street going at least 50 miles per hour in a 40-mile-per-hour zone. I like this one. You guys literally put a QR code so we can be on our cellular device while driving. You guys are corrupt and you should be—

Just, yeah.

And then you get some that are just kill yourself. I mean, you I mean, you probably wouldn't be surprised, but some people don't like the police. So that's some examples of some 1-stars.

They just haven't got to know you yet.

At least not me yet.

Examples of 2-stars. Officer did not use his blinker. Again, depending on the individual, for that service, that was 2-stars. And that could have been more than likely not a traffic citation, but them using the QR code. On the back of the vehicle to submit that. Just a little frustrated because I just got a ticket for illegal tint, which I understand, and I bought the vehicle like this from a dealership that told me it was legal, which I know doesn't matter. So what I like about this one is that they got this, they got the citation, but they also took ownership of, yeah, I mean, I should have probably learned more, not just taking their word for it. Thank you so much for protecting me and my neighbors from cars parked with the left side against the curb. We all feel so much safer. I'm very happy to provide extra funding for the new city hall. Oh, again, just examples of 2 stars, right? Didn't listen to us at all. Were incredibly rude and actually escalated the situation rather than calming it down. So the nice thing is, is if there's, if there's identifiers, if there's information. So one of the questions may be is, what do you do with this information? If there's a situation where we have an identifier, it's a great training opportunity for officers. For instance, you know, someone that was speeding down State Street going 40 miles an hour. Additional context would be beneficial. Were they responding to a call where they weren't doing lights and sirens and they're trying to be a little bit more covert? Or was it they were just going 50 miles an hour down State Street? And so we have to understand that we are a public billboard, and it doesn't really matter what we do. It says Orem City. We represent them in the context of— Family City, USA. And so we need to make sure that we represent that regardless if we're going to a call. But there may be some additional information, some context, but we can use that as a training situation for those officers just to make sure they're aware. Let's see, 3. Oh, this one was clever. So this is a 2-star out of where I just wanted to throw it. The officer pulled me over saying I was on my phone. I was, but I was scanning the QR code. Then he asked if I'd been drinking. I said, yeah. He asked me to step out. I said, okay, but hold my beer. He said no. Can you believe that? Wouldn't even hold my beer. He did pick up the quarter bag I dropped. That was nice. So again, with some humor.

On the car.

You would hope, yes, 100%, they're joking. They have their few minutes of fame now that we just— I thought it was So I wanted to add—

Captured forever in our meeting or YouTube channel.

Forever.

Examples of 3 stars. I'm going the speed limit. This cop was speeding, tailgating me, and shot the gap to get in front of me, all to stop at a red light. Didn't use his blinkers on left turn. Courteous and swift service. Thank you for keeping the road safe. Didn't seem interested in helping and haven't heard anything back. So again, these are 3 stars, and there's some variations. Some are positive. Some can be considered negative. But again, it's all based on the subjectivity of the individual that's filling it out. And I would say the majority of the ones that we receive would be what? What do you guys think we would actually receive most on? No, no takers.

Speed?

Driving.

Driving.

I would say that's probably the biggest one that we are able to work on and do better at. So examples of 4 stars. 5 stars for professionalism, minus 1 for ruining my Spotify vibe. Officer was kind and understanding, friendly but short, conversationalist, very kind and reasonable officer. Have a great day. The officer was nice. He's not rude or anything. He was polite and I was polite as well. No concerns or anything. I appreciate the calm voice he used.

I did have an officer ask me once why I was speeding and I said I was listening to Duran Duran and I hadn't heard that song in a long time. It was Duran Duran.

Then some examples. Thank you for all you guys do. Interacting, uh, was great. She was professional, answered my questions.

Y'all are cool.

He let me in. He let me in. Truly a valiant moment for a surely valiant officer. Orem police are fantastic. Quick response, polite. We love our officers. I just drove past an officer stopped on the freeway helping someone change their tire. A very great act of kindness and service, and I'm happy to support them. So as you can see, for us, it's a resource and a tool that we can use, number one, to be able to collect subjective information from individuals, as well as we can use it as a training opportunity. One other element that this program does is in 2023, the state passed SB 124, which required all police agencies to have an officer early intervention program, and that was supposed to be enacted in 2025. We were one of the first agencies because we were in relationships with Know Your Force to be able to actually use them for our early intervention program to be compliant with the state. And so we actually use these accommodations as well as complaints to be able to help with our early intervention program. And so that is Know Your Force. Any questions?

Just comment that I really think it's phenomenal that our officers are open and willing and vulnerable enough to, to do this. And I think it's a— I think it's overwhelming evidence that we do a phenomenal job of holding the line of the law, doing it in a way that is resident-friendly, that, that keeps in mind that people are humans and people make mistakes and, and that There's room for improvement. Yeah, this is phenomenal.

We think he had a public question or comment.

Lieutenant Jameson, this is an awesome presentation. I, I just think this is one of— this is just outstanding. Can you provide us with an example of something that you've changed as a result of these surveys?

So, this particular one, I can't give you feedback because I'm in support services, but it would be more the patrol attendants. But I would say the driving one, for instance, right? You have an individual, there's, there's people that give us the code on the vehicle, vehicle identification number. And so for us, it would be more of a training opportunity of someone going home. We know they're not going to a call, but let's say they're on the freeway. They're trying to get home and they're going a little bit faster than they should be. So being able to have that information and being able to use it as a training, exactly what I just told you, we are a billboard. So that in itself is a training of just making sure people are understanding that it's different if you're in your personal vehicle. But when you have your vehicle number, you have a QR code, you have information that identifies who you are, you have to make sure that you are actually in a position where you are doing the speed limit unless you're responding to a call, which the state allows us to do. And so I would say that's number one. Number 2 is the communication and just Being able to have individuals be able to have conversations and not, like Bryn was saying, if you are interacting with someone, make sure you treat them like a person and be able to actually have conversations. And yeah, we know they've committed a crime, but you can still treat them as a person. And so one of the things that this individual, even going backwards, says this officer was courteous and swift. What was it? He was basically friendly but short conversationalist.

Right.

So he's friendly but short conversationalist. So that's a great training tool of saying, yeah, we are vulnerable. We are in a position where we're giving someone a card and saying, hey, I want you to rate how our interaction was when I probably just gave you a citation. And so why can't we use that as a training tool of saying you can still sell the citation, you can still be courteous, and you can still get the job done? You don't have to be— you don't have to conversate with them, but you can still talk with them. And so I would I would say mostly for Know Your Force, it's conversational. It's more humanizing individuals. It's getting them in a position where they realize they're going to be graded. So make sure you put yourself on your best behavior and represent the city as well as the department as best as you can. I would say that's more of a continual training of change, of just making sure when we do get new officers, they understand that we hold them to a higher standard. We want to make sure that they continue to represent us in that way. obviously more for the newer officers. And even when there's an attaboy, if there's like a good, a good one that comes in where it's an identifier, we definitely want to praise that and say, good job, way to represent us. And we want to use that as an example of what can be done. I don't know if that answers your question.

Yeah, so let's play it back. 3 things. Identify people with driving problems. Secondly, help people more courteous and conversational when stopped. So there's kind of this training element for individual officers, but I think that last insight was helpful, which is that officers know that they're going to be rated, right? And so I think it just helps to create a mindset of customer service. These are people that we are serving, and it probably helps influence the culture overall.

It's the culture, 100%. And then I would even say going above and beyond that, it's a de-escalation technique. I mean, if you can treat someone and you can have someone berate you and you can just keep calm knowing that you're going to be evaluated, knowing that you're going to be seen, I feel it's a great de-escalation tool to be able to actually just be friendly in the times when you don't want to.

Right.

And create that, that, that boundary between you and them.

of—

I'm law enforcement, but also, again, like you said, it's a professional courtesy of me being able to say, I understand this may not be what you want, but I'm doing— this is what I'm doing.

If you as a department ever make any significant changes as a result of this, let's talk about it.

Thanks.

Just a quick question. So, um, first of all, thank you. Uh, this is, this is a brave This is a brave thing to do because if there's anybody that's gonna be— it's gonna have a target on them, it's the police officers. But I, you know, the saying of if you can't measure it, you can't manage it goes a long ways. And I just think this is such a great open and honest tool to be able to know how you're interacting with the public. I lost my train of thought. Dang, it was a really good one too. Um, well, it'll come to me, uh, eventually.

At 2 AM.

At 2 AM. Yeah, that's, that's when all good things—

yeah.

Uh, anyway, thanks for doing this. Um, but I, I just, I love the fact that, that you're willing to gather information and then use that To make it— to learn where there might be opportunities to improve. Another positive thing, I love the shenanigans. Those are fun to read, and I think those little interactions with the public just help them to know that you guys are human and that you have a sense of humor and that you have challenges and, and all of the things. So I just, I appreciate you being willing to— Let people tell you what they think.

I do get a lot of comments about your social media.

Positive, very—

you guys, that really humanizes you. I think, um, I really love that. It also is a service, right, to our community. So what you're doing, it's great.

I'm curious if you knew approximate percentage of how many of them are anonymous versus Not all. Oh, that's a good question. I would—

I don't have that number, but just off the top of my head, I'd say probably 20% would be more anonymous.

Also, 80%—

I apologize, the opposite. 20% would be— they'll let us know who it is, and 80% would be anonymous. Yeah, especially when you're putting comments like that, the positive ones. Yeah, but I was gonna say, especially the negative ones, people don't want Thanks, Brandon, for triggering my question.

Is this available? Is this going to be available for the public to see? Not necessarily the comments, but the ratings?

Yeah, I believe on our website at one time we actually had that. It was actually embedded on our website, and I'm not sure what the change is if it isn't. But yeah, at the bottom of our website, I believe it was Know Your Force.

Well, Pete, let's make note to Recognize and celebrate.

It's a good job.

Thank you.

Phenomenal.

That you did at the banquet, that they would love to see the officers.

That was fun.

They were young.

I appreciate those that actually participated too.

So thank you.

That's so cute.

Do we have those little cards at the door at city council meetings?

Oh, maybe you should audit.

Every 4 years they rate the council.

With that officer that writes out a ticket, the QR code has the baby picture. Yes, yes, pictures.

Yes.

Any other questions?

I had one really quick. Yes, sir. If somebody confessed listening to Duran Duran, would that affect the citation ever?

You know what, the officer pulls the— And in which way would it I would say based on the age of our officers, I'm not sure how many people would know.

Not in a day.

Not in a day.

But I'm just saying.

Not on Guitar Hero.

Come on. You need to scan the QR code.

The QR code was just up for me. Go back to that slide.

Right, well, thank you guys.

Thank you.

All right, our next presentation, uh, Reed Price, our Assistant Public Works Director, confessed to me, says that his presentation wasn't going to be very exciting, but he's had an hour and a half to create some razzle dazzle. I'm going to tell you, if it's about wastewater, there's razzle and dazzle because we have a wonderful system that works. So yes, we'll try to tie it over to Duran Duran soundtrack.

Good memories.

Yeah, we're gonna start sending you YouTube videos.

Split your screen.

Oh, I do.

I'll slip that down.

Okay, thanks for this opportunity to be here today. This is an annual report that we're required to do to inform the governing body of the POTW, or the publicly Owned Treatment Works wastewater treatment plant to assure you that we are taking great steps to ensure the long-term viability and sustainability of our collection system, as well as our wastewater treatment plant. So, what is the MWPP? It's the Municipal Wastewater Planning Program. It's a survey that we answer. It's a series of about 100 or so questions. Specific to the financial condition of our utility, to the condition of our collection system, as well as the treatment facility itself. And these questions help us to evaluate and summarize technical, operational, and financial conditions of the utility. By doing so, it helps us to identify areas that we might need to focus on more, um, and to focus on them before they become more serious and thus costly. So, again, this was— we have— the survey evaluates 3 different areas. First is the financial evaluation, and then the collection system and the treatment facility. So, as we went through the questions, the areas that it focuses on are Sufficiency of revenues. Do we have enough money to do what we need to do? Our answer to that is yes, we do, due to the support that we've received from the City Council in recent past to increase rates in order to allow us to make the improvements that we— that are necessary in our collection system as well as at the facility.

Thank you.

To aid the city council, we had— we conducted rate studies to show exactly what was needed. That's one of the questions. Have you conducted a rate study? Do you collect impact fees? Which we do. Do you have a capital facility plan, a plan specific to the wastewater treatment plant and identifying things that are needed at the facility? And then Overall master planning, uh, that encompasses both the capital facilities plan as well as the collection system plans to line the pipes, clean the pipes, replace the pipes, increase the capacity of pipes in certain areas. So we were able to answer, uh, positively in all aspects of the financial condition. of this particular utility. When it comes to the collection system, which is the series of pipes running through our streets that collect sewage from all of our residents and convey it down to the wastewater treatment facility, it asks for system characteristics, how old it is, what is the largest size pipe you have. Um, it asks if you've had any backups. Last year we did not have any. Backups, backups are very rare because of the program that we have to keep our pipes clean. How much new development have you had? What if you have a preventative maintenance plan? Are you able to get around and clean the main lines on a frequent basis and other residential lines as well? And asks additional questions about our master planning Uh, effort. It also asks about our staff. How many staff do we have on the collection? We have 9. Um, and how many of those are certified? 3, 3 of those are certified with a grade 4 certification. The others are working on it. Um, and in fact, I think someone's— 2 more.

5.

Should have talked to Ron and Raby. We have 5.

Last week.

Oh, hello.

I should have recognized Ryan too. So it's in my notes that I couldn't get to up without you guys seeing them.

So next time I'll be more prepared and ask Pete how to do that.

So, but we've got a good crew. We have some tenured employees that are guiding a younger generation that are new to the industry. eager to learn and great workers. And so we're glad to have them on board under the mentorship of Ryan, Chad Johnson, and others. The last part of the survey focuses on the wastewater treatment facility. It asks, what are the flow characteristics?

How—

what is this facility designed for? What flows are you receiving? Again, these Questions are designed to have us look at it and say, oh my goodness, we're— our flows are about to exceed the design capacity. We're in good shape. Things that were designed years ago and constructed, when it comes to the treatment ability of the facility, we're in great shape. However, with the facility's master plan, there are improvements that we need to make to upgrade things and meet new regulations. And so, yes, we do need to— despite saying we're in great shape, we do need to continue to invest into the facility, and we are able to do that. It asks about facility maintenance, if we've had any violations, which we haven't had. It also talks about master planning for the facility, that capital facilities plan. It's in place. We're following it. Uh, it also asks about the operators that run the facility. Uh, and Ryan, I guess I'll have to— how many certified operators on treatment?

4.

Okay.

And then there's 1 grade 2.

1 grade 2.

So, another young group that are studying and, and will be, uh, will be, uh, are great resources and are the future. of that, of the facility down there. So that's really all that I had to present. It's, again, this is just an opportunity for us to report to you and to the state that we have informed you that we went through this process, and we're confident that the position that we're in puts us in great shape to continue to provide this necessary and valuable service to the citizens of Orem.

Thank you.

So with that, happy to take any questions that you might have.

Do you want some questions?

Go ahead. Aside from the reclamation facility, which I know you love, what's your favorite thing about our wastewater treatment process?

I would say the most fascinating thing— there's several. When I started my career, I knew very little about it. started at the wastewater treatment plant and running the lab, and I was just fascinated by taking this dirty water and making it clean. The big, huge culture of microorganisms that basically eat the organic material to clean the water, uh, was, was fascinating. And to know that you had to keep it at certain concentrations, and by getting rid of a certain portion After each day in order to keep the population steady. And then what you do with those microorganisms, the biosolids part is quite fascinating too, or the disposal of the biomatter that's at the end. Seeing a nice, clean, clear product come through that's been cultured and processed in such a relatively small square foot Square footage of area, duplicating what Mother Nature does on her own. With, uh, only she can't handle such high volumes on her own. So we duplicate what she would do on her own.

And there's an interesting I've heard some of them.

There's an interesting statistic that we've heard in the industry over the years that the Mississippi River from Minneapolis, from Minnesota down to the Gulf, is reused probably 6 times from top to bottom. And so it's, uh, it's a fascinating industry. Without the wastewater treatment plants that have been developed in the early 1900s, our death rates would average closer to 55 to 60 years old. So it's a significant contribution to human life and so, you know, our lifestyles, life quality, and so on and so forth. And I think Ryan even likes Duran Duran too. So that's another interesting—

If it weren't for that treatment, at 55 or 60, Duran Duran would be dead.

Songs would not be classic.

Yeah, I wasn't going to go there, Mayor, but that's a, that's a good point.

One thing that—

so that our legislature was proposing a bill this last year that required that we had to meet a certain MAGI, modified annual gross income, a certain percentage of that in order to qualify for getting some loans from the state, some low-interest loans. In some cases, we didn't meet that, then say, well, you need to reevaluate. What we just presented on tonight.

Are you—

do you have a financial plan that is robust enough to support your capital facilities plan? And is that in place? And if it's not in place, these numbers are going to reflect that, then you're not going to qualify. And so what's the alternative? Well, communities are then required to go back and do these studies and then reevaluate their financial models, and then rates will have to go up a little bit to be able to to generate a sustainable future for their water wastewater facilities.

So, again, appreciate Ryan and his group, all they do to keep the facility running and the flow going uninterrupted down to the treatment facility and doing their jobs out of sight, out of mind.

Thanks, Rita. Thank you.

You can flush with confidence, as you say.

We really do have an exceptional team and planning program. I mean, Chris and I were just hearing from someone on the Timpahoga Sewer Board that they, they're looking at even bigger cost impacts for improvements that they need to do. So the fact that Warren's just done such a good job for such a long period of time of being sophisticated, planning ahead, and doing improvements over time. Although we have more to go in the near future, we are in a much better spot relative to our neighbors.

Thank you.

You've been a great, a great audience.

Razzled and dazzled us.

Thanks, Reed.

You're welcome.

Our next razzle dazzle is going to be Gary McGann, our Community Development Director. Flood damage prevention amendments to Chapter 10 of the Orem City Code. It's for 10 minutes, 5-minute presentation, 5-minute—

Let me try again.

She's in Dubai.

I think she was only going to be here for the first part.

She was—

oh, that's right, she was only going to stay for the first part.

That's, that's your problem. That's one of the only— what time must have—

unless she's still stuck on Utah time.

Oh, that's all right. I hope not.

I can smell that picture.

Yeah.

Okay, we're going to talk about our FEMA map, or not our FEMA map, but our flood damage prevention. We have to do an update to Chapter 10 of our code. And so it's the National Flood Insurance Program that we're dealing with. And flooding in Utah is actually the most destructive and common natural disaster we have. There's more property damage every year, year in, year out from flooding than there is anything else that we have. And this is from the state, but it's a weird Got this statistic. So, 60% of all Utah properties have a 25% chance of flooding during their 30-year mortgage. And so I had a— I've had— I've been in my house 22 years. I've had 2 floods, and I don't live anywhere near a creek. Yeah, or anything like that. They both have had— one happened with a microburst, and one actually was, uh, the spigot on the outside of my house. Luckily, where it broke was on the inside of the house, on the inside of the wall, because then insurance covered it. We'll get into that. That'll be really important. If it had broken on the outside, of the house and flooding from that came into my house, I would not have been covered by insurance. So, and 40% of all the damage in Utah happens outside of their high-risk zones. So it doesn't even happen that you'd think along the river or next to the lake, something like that.

Interesting.

Okay, so the National Flood Insurance Program was established back in the '60s.

Yes.

And what it does is it provides federally backed flood insurance for us.

Yes.

And it tries also to reduce damage from floods through mitigation and floodplain management. So, We have— there's a voluntary federal-local partnership with this, and we have to access federal flood insurance rates and get mitigation grants and disaster assistance. We have to have an ordinance that's approved by By, uh, the federal government. And we've had an ordinance since the '80s.

One of the most popular—

oh, she said, is a— I didn't know Duran Duran would come in today. What are the—

what are the chances? What are the chances of that happening?

That must have been a long time ago.

At about the same time water was invented. So, so we have a current floodplain ordinance dealing with all of this, and we have to have this ordinance that's approved and authorized by the federal government. government for us to access these benefits. And the reason why we have to do an update is there have been some changes. In June of 2024, they updated their maps. And the original maps were kind of old. A lot of things have happened since then, the changing flood risks. There's been some advancements in how we map and do things. Also, Utah Lake shoreline has changed. So because of that, everything in our region has to be dealt with. And also, there are some uncertified levees out there, and they're mostly in Provo. During the floods of '83, Provo constructed levees, but they were not Army Corps of Engineers certified. And that creates some unique difficulties for any community that has something like that. So updating the maps. Now, 40% of all flood claims come from moderate to low-risk areas, and standard homeownership insurance or homeowners insurance does not cover flood damage. So back to my example, If it had been a flood that came in from the outside, uh, my insurance wouldn't have covered it, or that it would have been a very limited cover, and I would have been stuck with the remainder. Since it wasn't technically a flood, but it happened inside my house, the insurance covered it, and the bill— and this just happened a couple of months ago— It was over $12,000 to take care of the damage. But if it'd been from water from the outside, I would've been on the hook for all of that. In the microburst about 15 years ago, I had one room flood because of a microburst, and I didn't even make a claim, and I just covered it all because I didn't have, have, uh, Uh, flood insurance. Now, the, the National Flood Insurance Program is available to all Orem residents. Our application deadline, I have here June 23rd, but the mayor gave me a letter at the beginning of this meeting where FEMA— we were kind of wondering about this— they've extended the deadline to August for us to adopt Our ordinance. Our ordinance goes in, updates. We're using the standard template they have. It's really, if we don't enact their ordinance, we're not included in the floodplain program. And there, our ordinance has to be compliant with what they do. So the best thing to do is just use it. So it won't be a major change or shift. We basically have requirements in the floodplain zone of what people can and cannot do, how the habitable floor area has to be above the base floodplain elevation level plus a foot.

Yeah.

And those— that's kind of the best practice to do. So you'll be seeing this. It's not on your agenda tonight, but that will be coming back. Wanted to give it, put it on in case you had some questions that came up. You know, let me know about this here in the next month or so as this works its way back to you. And that's it. So any questions about floodplains? Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right, um, our dinner is ready, so we're going to take a little break for dinner before, um, Aaron McKnight, our assistant city attorney, gives his, his presentation and we have some discussion. I've asked Quinn if he would offer a blessing on the food.

Who's hungry like the wolf?

Hungry like the wolf.

Are you ready?

Our Heavenly Father, we're grateful for the chance we have to serve in this capacity in the city, for marvelous people who serve Orem residents and thought that goes into important decisions. We ask blessing on the food. We're grateful for it. Grateful, uh, for the chance to eat. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen. Amen.

Thank you. Well, well then, I'm guessing Improvement team and parking post.

It's 30 minutes, uh, 15 minutes presentation, 15 minutes. To Aaron McKnight, our assistant city attorney. Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor. Last time when I was here, I introduced evaluating mid-enforces and ways that we can improve. I explained the matrices last time and some policy changes, some creative changes. Enforcement more efficient and fair. Tonight we're going to talk about code changes. Uh, at a later city council meeting, let's go through Planning Commission and then, then we'll bring it back to council meeting. We wanted, uh, for a vote, wanted to go over them in a work meeting. Kind of some of the immediate code changes that we want to make related to the code enforcement. And again, code enforcement and parking are separate teams that are separate ordinances for enforcement. So we're treating them different, although in many people's eyes they're the same, uh, in many, uh, citizens' eyes as far as enforcement goes. Some immediate Code enforcement changes, neighborhood enforcement changes that we're going to make are to allow unregistered vehicle in a driveway. Currently, our code does not allow that. You have an unregistered vehicle, you can keep it in your garage. You can keep up to 2 of them in your backyard behind a sight-obscuring fence. But there's been some consensus that allowing 1 in a driveway would also be Allowed to allow for people who may not have room in their garage, may not have a garage, whatever, but still might, for whatever reason, want that registered vehicle in a neighborhood. In conjunction with that, we would allow 1 inoperable vehicle in a driveway, as long as it's covered by a vehicle cover and there aren't any junk parts, junk, flat tires. Uh, suspension or jacks or other visible body damage that makes it look old and thrashy. So if you want to be working on a vehicle, that one that you're restoring, you'll be allowed to do that and keep it in your driveway as long as— while you're not working on it, it's clean and neat and appropriately covered to keep the neighborhood looking nice. So those are some kind of concessions in terms of, uh, being more, more lenient and allowing for some more wiggle room for people to use their property. There's some things that we want to do to create more clarity is explicitly state that there is no parking on a residential lot except for in the driveway or the parking lot.

Parking strip, I picture it between the curb and the sidewalk and the curb.

And that's a good question. There's, there's a very specific legal definition for a parking strip. So you're, you're thinking a park strip. This is a gravel parking strip.

Gotcha.

There's a specific regulation in our code that says, as we used to only allow you to park on a paved driveway, it was either concrete, asphalt, or paving stones. Okay, and that could be expensive. So we created a new section that allows for gravel strip where people can park. It's adjacent to driveway.

I was thinking park strip.

Yeah.

So this is specifically for that, and the code will refer to that section just to make it clear for everyone. And we're not guessing. That is what we're going for here is clarity and not more confusion.

And that's the 4 inches of gravel.

That's 4 inches of gravel that is required under that regulation. Yes, I don't know to what extent all gravel parking strips in the city are 4 inches deep, but yes. Um, anyway, that's in there because NIT will often get into arguments about current regulation is you can't park where landscaping is required. So people will park on their grass. They say, they'll say, well, there is landscaping there, but it's not required to be there because I only have to have up to 60% of my yard landscaped. And anyway, we just want to make it clear, park on your driveway, not on your grass.

Um, let's see here.

Currently, city code allows the city to say it's obstructing. The sidewalk or the road. Uh, we want to expand that to allow the city to remove vegetation and for it to be a nuisance that NIT can address through our code enforcement processes. Vegetation that's obstructing traffic control signals and devices. So, if there's a tree that's grown over a stop sign, so people can't see that there's a stop sign or speed limit sign or whatever. Uh, well, no. If it's under that definition of traffic control signal device, then we'd be allowed to go in and cut that back or require the property owner to do that. We are going to increase fines for repeat offenders, and this is targeted mainly at situations where it's more financially— it makes sense financially for a person to just Pay the fine every day and keep engaging in the illegal activity on their property, then they come into compliance, right? So, possibly common example, we've seen this come up a couple of times, is where people are renting their home out to more than 3 unrelated people. And they get the code violation, they're ordered to pay the $50 a day, but they're actually making more than the $50 a day, so it's more advantageous for them to just tell them, here's a fine, keep renting it out, right? Or, or what we've actually seen more often is they get, they get ticketed for it, they kick out the extra tenants that they have that they shouldn't have, and then 6 months later they, they fill up their house with a bunch of tenants exceeding the cap again, and it just turns into this revolving thing where they're willing to take that risk because the fines are low enough that it makes sense financially for them to do that. So, that's, that's the rationale behind that. And then there are a couple of, um, things that commonly happen in the city. Those last 4 things: illegal home occupation, storage pods, snow removal, and storing things and having junk in vacant lots. Those are all technically already nuisances under the city code. We just want to make it more explicit again so that NIT doesn't have to get into the same type of arguments that they do with homeowners when they're trying to enforce on those things, because that can delay coming into compliance. And I saw your hand, Lenny. Let me just explain one more thing, and that is When I say that they're currently already nuisances in their code, they are the way that, for example, just as an example that you're familiar with, the way short-term rentals are currently permitted under the code, right? Currently, they're not permitted. But it's not explicitly stated you can't do this. It's in the use table. harder for people to find and that kind of a thing. So we just want to make these explicit.

Well, that would be my— just because of the short-term rental conversation we had earlier, um, we do have a problem with illegal home occupations, you know, excessive occupancy. Um, I would actually like to just— can we fit in something that we've always, um, landlord come in? Is there— I know of one house in particular that we were sent down by you guys. They're doing these tax things in the depths. So I don't know how we would go about doing something like that. Is anybody going to explore that?

I can look into that. I'm just off of the top of my head. Landlord license if they're not in compliance with our code. You haven't ever handled it that way? I think mechanism already—

I know, I know.

Shut it down. Just got a text from the call from these—

they're back at it.

They're doing written top and bottom again. So, I don't know, just while we're going through this, if we think of a way to— that's already in our code. Let's figure out how to give it to our admit list.

Yeah, can I, can I look into that and research a little bit, maybe get back to you on— I think a mechanism already exists where we can— rental dwelling license. Again, we haven't handled it that way. We've handled it through the administrative law judge, but I appreciate you bringing that up because that, that could be another way to help us gain compliance in those sorts of situations.

I just wanted clarification on snow removal. Is that removing snow from your property?

What is that? That is clearing off the sidewalk. Making sure that your sidewalk is clear. Yeah, just making sure it's clear.

Yeah.

Right-of-ways too? Sidewalk?

Just the sidewalks. Yeah, we wouldn't be, you know, regulating driveways. I guess that's great, but our main concern is keeping it off the sidewalk so that people can access it.

And then just a question I have for those who are not physically capable because of age and whatever else to do the snow removal. Is there a mechanism for neighborhood groups or others to be aware and try and help neighbors in times of need? That would be just the thought that I would want to make sure that we have an awareness. I know our neighborhood will want to help.

Struggle.

I'm not having attention to the question. I think it would be good to kind of brainstorm some ways to address that. Another common issue I think might be, you know, someone's out of town for a week and it snows. How do we deal with that? Maybe, maybe the answer is the city does removal, and I, I don't know, administratively I'm not sure that Public Works That, that's doable.

It's too much.

And so really it results in— if someone was injured because of the snow not having been removed, you know, that, that's, that's a whole different area.

And I would also say, or We probably end up in a situation where they wouldn't get fined anyway. In terms of exercising discretion, uh, to enforce it, this is more for people who are just— they can and they don't care.

And we could employ some of the same connections with Uptown United Way.

For—

I know they would all want to know. Yeah, for ways to serve your—

No, like I say, if people are out of town, that's an issue. They're out of town long term, I, I would hope that they would pay the neighbor boy.

Right.

I, I would hope that if you're leaving for an extended period that you would be a responsible property owner and make provisions for taking care of it, right? It would be the same thing if you're out of town long-term over the summer and you need someone to mow your lawn.

Mhm.

And then we've got some parking Parking code changes that we want to implement as well. Something that came specifically from the council during discussions regarding this was that we wanted— currently, our code does not allow any vehicle to be parked on the street for sale. And there was a consensus that we wanted to allow people to be able to park a vehicle for sale on the street as long as it's in front of their house. There was also an issue in terms of how far does a person have to move their vehicle, or specifically a recreational vehicle, a boat, or a trailer, after a 72-hour period limit that we have. Some people are moving it 6 inches and saying, well, that's good.

I moved it.

Right.

So we wanted to put in A specific distance. You got to move it at least 200 feet, a little ways down the block every 72 hours. Again, this is, this is aimed at keeping people from storing their boats, trailers, and RVs and stuff on the street. That's not something that we want in our neighborhoods. Again, increased fines for repeat offenders along the same lines. Our fine for parking is $25. Illegal parking, which is much less than, say, a parking pass at one of these apartment buildings down by UVU. And so a lot of people will just break the parking regulations down there and figure that, hey, as long as I only get 2 or 3 tickets a month, that's cheaper than the actual parking pass. And so we're, we're increasing the fines for offenders to avoid that kind of it. And also people Ignoring and maybe need a louder— what do you call this?

Is there an escalation process? Boot, tow, all those things?

I don't know that we're planning on booting or towing per se, except for in cases of abandoned vehicles. Yeah, just escalating the fines at this point.

This has not really anything to do with the parking code changes, but the car dealership. I got a complaint from someone about car dealers, people who are transporting cars to car dealerships, and they park in the middle of State Street.

Yes, I know.

I know I've literally nearly killed somebody at night in Linden. He was standing out in the road in plain black. Anyway. But are there— is there— are there laws to prevent, to prohibit that?

Aren't we? We've been trying to educate the dealerships and the hundreds of drivers that are— so, um, I just don't want someone killed. Process. Yeah, it has been something we've done greater amount of focus on over the last several months, and we have seen Real progress.

Thank you. Thank you.

Can I, uh, one thing? Your first one?

Yes.

To avoid a loophole from someone just parking their RV in front of their house with the for sale sign in it. Can you put a timeline on that?

Yes. Yes.

Well, I don't know. What would you recommend?

I would say that parking an RV in front of the house for 72 hours or longer. Or would still be subject to the 72-hour limit, right? Even if it is for sale, it's not— you can't park it in front of your house still, and those, those 72-hour limits would still apply.

Okay.

Yeah. So far, all of the code changes that I've talked about tonight, we've discussed in our committee meetings. The last 2 we haven't, but they came up as, as after I've been speaking with staff. And one issue is that people are parking in our city parks and using it as using them as parking lots, sometimes storing their RVs, because again, can't park your RV in the street for longer than 72 hours, but there's nothing about parking it in a city parking lot. And so they would like to see a code change that'll Basically enforces park curfew, but also for cars. And the rationale there again is, if you can't physically be in the park, your car probably shouldn't be in the park either. It's not a park, a storage parking lot for people as they have been treated. And then the other one is a big problem is having car dealerships park the cars that they have for sale on the public streets. Really clogging things up and making it difficult to park. So, staff would also like to see an ordinance indicating that car dealerships cannot park their inventory on public streets. It needs to be on their lot.

And the lot has to be paved. It still has to meet the paving requirements.

They would— yeah, there are site plans and other ordinances that would say, hey, you can't park on landscaping on their lot.

Okay.

So when I say lot, I don't mean their parcel of land. I mean on their lot, part of their ownership. So, uh, are there any concerns with those changes?

Okay.

And then lastly, there are some other ones that we discussed, uh, Making exceptions for large circular driveways to the landscaping rules. Making rules regarding carports, how they need to be presented. Food trucks are a big issue, and that's going to require a fairly heavy lift. And then rental disclosures for landlords. With our occupancy enforcement, those are all kind of future code things. These will not be presented. Uh, in the next month or 2 to the Planning Commission, City Council, but are kind of bigger projects that will be coming down the road, uh, in the next— in the coming year or 2. And so, any questions about any of that?

Just one quick thing. So rental disclosures, is that going to encompass our desire to own on long-term Yeah, that, that's directed mainly at long-term rentals.

Uh, that was an idea brought forward by Gary where Provo requires rental disclosures to help enforce their occupancy laws, and they have similar struggles the way we do with being a college town and all that kind of thing, and the rental disclosures helped. Part of why This is being kicked down the road a little bit. It is administratively in terms of enforcing it. All right. Well, I think all those—

Remind me what our current situation is with food trucks. You said that was a hit and they're just, they're everywhere popping up.

Yeah, they have anything we currently have. We currently have a code on Food trucks. I'm not super familiar with it, but I do know that it is, that it's fairly unworkable. Meaning, one provision of it, for example, is that a food truck cannot remain in any one place for longer than 5 hours. And that's just not how food trucks are currently working. And, and it led At least one situation, a food truck to be like, oh, okay, well, I'm going to remove the wheels on my food truck and put it on blocks, and then it won't be a mobile vendor anymore. It's a vendor, and now I can stay here indefinitely. And that's not really okay. That's worse. So anyway, uh, that's That's an ordinance that is just going to take a lot of thought. I think we're going to want to get a lot of input from the industry as well, a lot of short-term rentals input from kind of all sides and crafting an ordinance that makes sense and is enforceable.

And it's about so they know, so they can just know what they're allowed to do. A lot of them just want to do things.

Yeah, well, and it's unfortunate because I, I think, you know, there are probably some who want to do the right thing, and we have an ordinance. The right thing is to follow that, uh, but there are a lot that don't follow it and don't care. And part of the reason is because it's difficult to enforce. Part of it is because it's maybe unreasonable to enforce on— and had we asked, I guess so.

Do we collect taxes from them?

So sales tax, sales tax, wherever their home base is.

Really?

That's right.

That's not good because they're competing with our restaurants here. All right, thank you, Erin.

Appreciate it. All right, so now we have item 2 on our agenda, uh, city council reports. And Crystal, I—

yeah, so I cover 4 different areas.

Um, Public Works Advisory Commission, they throw a rockin' party while we were there, so that was awesome.

Yes, it's always a good party.

And I think, you know, the little bit of overhead— the transportation utility fee is probably the biggest thing that Public Works has been talking about the last little bit. Um, anything you'd want to add there?

Yeah, it's at the forefront of our efforts right now, and, um, we're excited to be making an announcement shortly regarding a new public That we feel will help us in those efforts.

That's another big thing you do.

Yeah, and so I appreciate your help with us on that committee to, to interview, and it's been a, been a long effort but going to be worth it. So we're excited.

Yeah, Chris invited me to sit on, on the interviews for that and be part of that panel, and I enjoyed being part of that process. That was great. Um, Events Commission is another one that Jeff and I serve on, and Our big event of the year is coming up with Orem Fest. So we're excited to see the fruits of all those labors of the past and have a great celebration for Orem.

It's always a fantastic week.

I also serve in the Orem Youth Council with Chris, and we just wrapped that up last month for the school year. The kids all loved being a part of that and really enjoyed their time. So I'm excited to see new kids coming in in the new school year.

I've had a couple emails from, um, participants in the Miss Orem Teen project where I had talked to them about the Orem Youth Council.

They didn't know that was a thing, so they, they were excited to try and participate in that coming year. And then I'm also— I serve with the Legislative Policy Committee for ULC, and we've had a little bit of a break since, um, the legislative session ended and the St. George thing. Um, so that'll be starting up again this next month, and I'm excited to see what's going on in the interim sessions.

Is that it?

Thank you. Thank you for, for your service on those different boards and commissions and for the update. All right, this evening's agenda, we have, uh, it says, just so you know, the invocation and Just racial thought and visit by invitation. I got that covered on that. I, I just didn't have names by the time the holiday weekend, and Teresa needed to get that out. We do have some presentations. We have Representative Nelson Abbott coming to present. We have the Natural Resources Advisory Commission awards. We have the Orem Fest kickoff coming up. We have our summer reading program. Uh, from the library, and then the Miss Orem introductions. And so we'll— we will have that time, and then we will also have a presentation, the Police Autism Picnic. After that, personal appearances. One consent item is to update the City Council 2026 agenda. Theresa sent that out, some updates on that. And then scheduled items. Presentation. This one doesn't require a vote. This one, as I understand, is information only. It's ORMS Community Development Block Grant updated annual action plan and proposed budget. And then we do have a public hearing after that, amending a number of articles in our city code relating to the powers and duties of the Planning Division, special exceptions. So, do you have any questions you want to ask about that in here? I guess you're— Jared is going to be presenting that, but it looks like it's moving things from the Board of Adjustment over to the Planning Commission pretty much, and some things. And then we have—

I was there when that logic was presented to Planning Commission, but it would be worth, I think, just a 2-sentence version of logic.

Yes, there's a Under a specific type of development where if you have a single-family home that's almost completely surrounded by a higher density, uh, there isn't a path for you to go and get approval for that. You have to go to the Board of Adjustment for them to make a determination, and then it comes back to Planning Commission to basically make a very similar determination, and it just seemed really redundant and inefficient to do it that way when planning to be looking at it from a much broader perspective anyway.

Okay, so thank you. So that's going to be a public hearing, and I won't put your husband on the spot if he's— He's a good sport. Then we have another public hearing, an ordinance amending our zoning ordinance, our zoning map over the old Central Utah Water Conservancy District properties over on University Parkway from R-8 single-family residential to C-2, along with the development agreement. And the development agreement, it actually has a list of uses that would not be allowed on there, including gas stations and like that. So that appears to be our agenda this evening. And then, oh, we cannot forget our esteemed city manager. He will have some information items, and then we will adjourn. So that's— and look at the— oh, look at the time. Any other council members want to report on anything they're working on? If not, let's just—

so we're doing the, um, I don't know, active transportation plan in our TAC. So if anybody has any ideas for bike paths or biking or anything—

Oh yeah, yeah, I do.

Want to, you know, add, let us know.

What's the timeline for that?

We'll have it done by the end of the year, so October, maybe September.

Okay.

And you're interfacing, I'm sure, with all the bike folks and Yeah.

Yes, thank you all. Thank you all for serving on those different liaisons for those different boards and commissions, and thank you for being, being really involved in all the different events that we have here at the cities. We're in a month of a lot of things happening in a couple of weeks with all the different OrmFest events. And so my little jar is getting Full of the— of where I have to pay in, if I call it a season rather than— I don't want the city— I don't want the other city over where back there. So, yes, I'm trying really hard. And— But yes, I'm excited for that. And anyway, we actually— are you— how are you feeling about the pace of our work session? I wanted to ask about that. I We talked— I've talked to staff about maybe not having as many items on our agenda so we can go at a more deliberate pace rather than always feeling like we're panicked. And at least that— maybe it's just me. It's like, are you okay with this amount of— this amount of stuff?

It's more able to get the detail and also deliberate more than just fire hose.

Yeah, I think so too. And we do have some— a few minutes here, and it's not— it'll give us a chance just to visit. We don't get to visit with each other as much, you know.

We— anyway, may I just offer that I, I think this past week has been extraordinary, that the city has shined in a way that, uh, most communities don't have that opportunity. And we have some of the most elite executive staff planners and folks who have created environments for our citizens to find hope, success, peace, opportunities to heal. We've created over the last few days and just the events that I've had the opportunity to deal with. So just express gratitude for all of them.

Doing lately.

And it was super impressive last night at the Sierra, our firefighters up there on stage. Was honored.

That was—

we got some really good pictures. I'll get to Pete, we'll do a post. Yeah, that was so sweet. And also the— we all got— and they got the standing ovation for like a long time.

Yeah, it's great.

Deserved it, truly.

And that's the Sierra.

I wrote it down.

America 250 Sierra Salutes. series. They're going to be doing those, but, um, how honored for our fire to be the first ones.

That was really nice.

It's great.

Well, should we—

don't have anything else, we'll just adjourn until we come back together.

Adjourned.

I make a motion we adjourn then.

All right, motion and a second.

All right, we will reconvene.

So we can meet at 6. Thank you.

I agree. I saw the dog one got chosen. It did. Yeah. That's what I thought too. Okay, probably like complaints to us. Like, I know that most of the stuff I don't handle anyway. So we're intro tonight. What else is on the menu?

Oh, is it bad?

That, that oh made me nervous. Well, we may not stay on. No. Okay. It was a really great, like— Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

My girls all watch it. And so that— then we're at— so it's like what?

Here?

Yeah. Oh, I saw you were in jackets the whole time. Yeah, I saw it. Oh, is that why? I should wait till they're official.

And actually, I didn't think—

yeah. Okay.

All right.

Well, thanks for letting us know, Lori. I appreciate the word. Yeah, it's okay.

Yeah, it's good.

We'll be there when it's time. Those are awesome. We like to be flexible.

Okay.

Appreciate you.

Test, test. All right, I would like to welcome you to this evening's city council meeting. Thank you for your attendance. We're going to go ahead and start with an invocation by Tom Scribner, and after the invocation, the Pledge of Allegiance will be led by Glenna Scribner. So thank you for coming and doing that this evening.

Heavenly Father, we are grateful to be here this evening. We are so grateful to live in this country and to be in an area that is safe and a place where we are capable of meeting like this to discuss various issues. We ask you to bless this meeting with thy spirit. Bless everyone who speaks, that they may do so civilly. And bless us, that— bless each of us as we are in this year of 250 years for our republic, that we can be humbled in remembering the sacrifices of our forebears. And we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Amen.

Please stand and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Scribners, for, for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance. After the Pledge of Allegiance, as, as we were reciting that, it reminded me of the wonderful events that we've had this past weekend here You know, Orem, we had the opportunity to gather out here and dedicate our Gold Star Family Memorial, and I invite you to go take a look at that after the council meeting. And then we also had a wonderful Memorial Day program yesterday, and so grateful for this country and for the opportunities we've had this last few days to remember those who have We have a number of presentations this evening. Our first presentation is going to be a legislative report given by Representative Nelson Abbott. So I'd like to welcome you to come up, Representative Abbott.

Yes, thank you for having me. It's good to be here. I appreciate the work you do and the good things you're doing for Orem. I was here Friday night for the Gold Star Memorial, and that is a wonderful thing, and it was a super touching ceremony and very well done. So I appreciate the efforts you're making as a city council and mayor and city manager to, uh, make Orem a better place. So my name is Nelson Abbott. I represent about a third of the population of Orem, and I represent about 80% of vineyard at the Utah Legislature. I'm in the House of Representatives. And so I was asked to just come and kind of report on, I guess, a few things that are happening and kind of some of our priorities. One of the things we're super worried about is the cost of living. And it's a little frustrating at the state level, and I'm sure you're experiencing the same thing at the city level, in that we don't have a lot of options because most of the levers that drive the cost of living happen at the federal level. So our hands are somewhat tied. For example, starting July 1st, gas tax will be reduced about 15%, which sounds good, but I'm not sure anybody will notice because gas is up probably double or more in the past few months. So there's a, there's a lot of issues going on like that, but some of the things we've done is Um, we have lowered income tax substantially over the past 6 years. We've increased funding for education significantly. It's up about 36% over the last 6 years. Just this year, we raised the weighted pupil unit by 4.6%. So we're trying to continue to fund education. I know that's important for Orem and Vineyard in that we have a new school district, and there's going to be some economic constraints that they face given, um, just the division and, and what's going on with all of that. So those are, those are some of my priorities. Um, and, you know, I guess another priority I'll mention is just I appreciate the working relationship I have with you in that, uh, you guys have helped me screen bills and say, hey, this going to impact citizens of Orem or Vineyard in this way. And so be aware of that. And I appreciate that good working relationship and the input that you give. And so I guess that's about my presentation. I'm happy to answer questions, but probably don't have a lot more to say than that.

All right, thank you. And likewise, we appreciate the relationship we have with you, that you're very accessible and we're able to come in and visit with you about different pieces of legislation and how they will impact those we both represent. And so, Council, do you have any questions for Representative Abbott? Okay, Councilmember Meekham.

Thank you for being here. You are my representative. I'm in your 3rd of Orms.

Right. Fantastic.

It's great to have you here. Between now and the next legislative session in January, what are your priorities? What will you be working on in particular to get ready for that session? How can we support you?

So, you know, I think one of the issues that everybody's facing right now— well, I think people in Orem are concerned about it, although it's distant enough from us— is the data center up north, right? So we're hearing that a lot in the news. But I think the broader picture is how do we deal with tax increment financing and giving tax incentives to certain businesses or organizations? That has grown substantially over the past few years. And I think a lot of us in the legislature realize that while that serves a purpose, we probably need some more guardrails and we need some more careful structuring of those organizations so that elected officials have more responsibility and more say as to actually who gets those. And so that's one of the things I'm going to be working on, is to try and figure out how we can rein that back. It's always hard when you have a government program. It's, it's easy to start government programs. It's hard to end government programs. So it's going to be a challenge. It's going to be difficult. But that's one of the things I'm going to be working on.

Mayor, Council, if I can just also echo, um, what, what Mayor has said, uh, Representative Nelson Abbott has been very thoughtful, very smart, very accessible, willing to engage and open to, to feedback and take Take our input into account. Orem has a lot of great state legislators, and Representative Abbott is absolutely, you know, not lagging in that regard, and he's just been wonderful to work with.

Thank you.

Thank you. Appreciate you.

All right. Thank you.

Well, we've got somebody else.

Can I just say one more thing? We noticed that your sweetheart is here with you this evening.

Yes, she is.

And we just want to say again, thank you to you for all that you do and all that you have done to bless us here in Orem, all of your hard work. But we just want to say thank you to your wife as well. We know that she puts up with a lot and sacrifices a lot to allow you to be able to do what you do. So thank you to both of you.

Thank you, that's appreciated.

Yes, thank you, uh, Mrs. Abbott.

I—

it is a running— and having someone serving elected office is definitely a family affair. Family and friends. So, thank you. Um, before next item, I neglected to excuse Councilmember Gail. She will not be— will not be here this evening. Our 2nd presentation this evening is from Bradley Day, our Communities and Sustainability Officer, and it's Natural Resources Advisory Commission Awards. So I'd like to invite Bradley up for that. And it looks like you have 2 of your commission members with you this evening.

Indeed.

Welcome.

Yeah.

And I'll actually hand the time off to them. Um, I'll hand the time to Hillary Hungerford, but, uh, we will also make time for the recipient families to share a couple remarks as well for these awards.

Thank you.

Um, hello, Mayor. Hello, council members, and hello, fellow Orem residents. We're very excited to present our Natural Resource Advisory Commission awards this year. On behalf of Orem's Natural Resource Advisory Commission, we're privileged to recognize local leaders championing clean air, energy efficiency, water-wise landscaping, waste and recycling, green space, healthy ecosystems, local agriculture, and outdoor recreation. Our 2 winners tonight are Orem residents who have gone above and beyond using their personal yards to directly benefit our community. So we'd like to invite our winners up. Cole Ludwig and Oren Cooper, please come up. So I'm just going to say a brief, uh, word about each and then they'll, they'll say. So Cole, you're going to be first. Both of these residents took amazing and really different approaches to their landscaping. For Cole, he was nominated for creating a natural-looking and feeling habitat for native pollinators. He turned a large portion of his lawn into a thriving native pollinator garden, and he worked with the State Department of agriculture to collect native plants. He created a highly drought-tolerant garden full of color and life. We would invite you to say a few words.

So this was actually something real exciting for my family. We, about 5 years ago, decided that we wanted to cut down on our water use. And our lawn being a big pull for all that water. So we reduced down our grass to about a third of what it was, and then had all this extra space that we didn't know what to do with. And I just happened to run into on Facebook a post about the Pollinator Habitat Program. It's something that was started back in 2002 by our state legislature with the Department of Agriculture, where they supply a lot of native plants to families to just plant in areas that they have. Utah is home to over 1,000 different types of native bees, and And, part of what we're doing is trying to do our best to create a good living space for them. Even recently, I've been out there just kind of seeing what we've attracted. We have a lot of carpenter bees that are just there hanging around all the flowers, a lot of smaller solitary bees that we don't really hear about, because most of what we hear about is the honeybees. But there's so much more than just those guys. And we love going out, we love seeing the flowers, all the activity, the butterflies and things like that. And it's been real exciting for us to have this opportunity and to be able to grow it.

Great.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Take a seat for a minute, then we'll come back up to present the award. The next is Oren Cooper. I think Oren is here.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

Welcome.

I haven't met either of these people before tonight. Very exciting. So Oren and his family turned their entire front yard into a productive garden. They made sustainable landscaping a true priority in their lives. Their yard feeds fresh food for their family, and it gives neighbors and the community a unique opportunity to enjoy locally grown vegetables. So we'd love to hear from you.

Thanks.

So our motivations were similar to what we just heard, that, um, our lawn, as you can see up here, we use 96,000 gallons of water last year in a month just to try to keep our lawn green. We live where our lawn was sloped, and that's a lot of water. In fact, we saved enough water over the year by changing this landscape for a household of 4 in Orem to live and do, you know, everything except for have a lawn. Um, so that's very similar motivations. Um, one of the other things that I wanted to share about tonight, you can show the other picture of the Garden. Here we had, you know, 60-something tomato plants. We've got those planted this year. Love fresh produce. We ran into some challenges actually doing this.

I went to apply for grants, and the city of Orem and the city of Provo don't qualify for some of the state grants because of the current legislation about how much our yard needs to be grass and those those requirements.

Um, we had some challenges initially with this city. We went from being reported as one of the ugliest yards to in 15 months being reported as one of the most beautiful yards, because it was a process. You know, we took all the grass out. It was basically mud through the winter.

And thankfully, City Manager Bybee was very helpful, um, in that process.

So I hope this can be a start of a conversation To look at how we can change some of the ordinances. Um, I don't know if you've seen in the last couple of days, but Salt Lake City, their main water supplier, is going to start charging fines or fees if the various cities overuse their allotted amount of water. So again, I don't— I haven't studied all the ins and outs of how we get our water, but the fact that we could encourage more citizens to save water and even return that to groundwater in years that we have excess. Again, I'd love to follow up more so that more people have these pollinator-friendly and beautiful yards.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, we would love to officially present you all with your awards and take picture with the mayor and city council.

So please come forward.

Do we do it all as a group? Okay, all as a group.

And it's cool to see yours with family up there too. We actually live across the street from each other.

Awesome. Okay, I'm gonna have the front row, everyone just take a step this way. Perfect. Yeah, go, go. You gotta get in here. You wanna get this bench?

Okay.

Perfect.

Sarah, I might have you come on this side with me.

Is that okay? Thank you.

All right, everyone look at me.

3, 2, 1. All right.

Hey, we're good.

Thank you.

Thank you and congratulations. Oh, those are beautiful flowers. Very beautiful. Today from their yard. Wow, that's amazing. I'm having yard envy, and so I've got some goals, some more goals now. Got the backyard with a lot less grass. Now the front's the next target. So thank you, congratulations, and thank you for being such good examples in our community. Our next item is our Orem Fest kickoff, and we have Kenice Whitaker And Sydney Bailey from our event staff here this evening. Thank you. Welcome.

All right, so here to talk about everybody's favorite week of the year, Orem Fest, which is June 8th through 13th this year. Um, okay, so we're going to start with— this is our theme for Orem Fest this year, celebrating of course the 250 years of freedom in the United States and the role that each of us play in preserving those freedoms. Forum Fest 2026 is a tribute to the American spirit that has defined our nation for 2 and a half centuries. In Family City, USA, we believe the American story is more than just a history lesson. It's a living legacy passed from one generation to the next. As we mark this historic milestone, we honor those who paved the way and the citizens who will carry the best of their legacy into the future.

Red, White, Blue, and You celebrates the past, the present, and the great Our grand marshal for this year is the Colonial Heritage Festival, and they perfectly embody this year's theme of Red, White, Blue, and You during this National America 250 celebration. The Colonial Heritage Festival is held every year during the week of 4th of July. This year it will be held the 2nd of July through the 4th of July at the Sarah Park. It is the largest colonial living history festival east of the 13 colonies, and it's right here in our city of Orem. The Colonial Heritage Festival's revolutionary figures— they have folks that dress up such as Benjamin Franklin or George Washington, and they're going to be making special appearances throughout Orem Fest, so please make sure to watch out for them at our car show and at our Orchards Jam and at our Carnival Days.

So we obviously couldn't have done it without our Event Advisory Commission. We have 10 of them right now that are helping us out throughout, especially this week and throughout the year, and then we have a lot of staff that also puts a lot of work into this week, which makes it all possible.

This year we have about 19 food vendors with a variety of tasty eats for you to try, and boutiques, about 48 different vendors with a lot of variety of wares too. So please come and check out all of these vendors.

We also wouldn't have been able to do it without all of our sponsors, generous donors. We have a title sponsor, ServPro. They help us out big time for OremFest. And so we had a lot of cash donations as well as a lot of in-kind donations just to help with volunteers being able to, you know, come be a part of this, giving back to the people that make this all possible.

Okay, so now we're gonna just highlight some of the events throughout the week. Our event start off with on Monday, June 8th, with our Orem Fest car show, which is so much fun. We have over 100 amazing cars that show up for this event, plus there are free hot dogs for the first 2,000 attendees. We have lots of businesses promoting what they do for our communities and offering free things too and engaging activities. On Tuesday, June 9th, there is an Orenfest pool party. We have discounted tickets of only $3 per person for admission, and it's not just a fun swim. There's music, dancing, contests, free ice cream, so make sure to come out for that. On, um, June 10th, we also have an Orenfest charity golf tournament for the Kiwanis Club that starts at 8 AM. So if you're a golfer, make sure to sign up for that too.

And then on Wednesday the 10th, we start with our Sports Fest tournament. So we start with a pickleball tournament all day that is men's tournaments, women's, mixed, and then we also have a parent and child division, which is really fun. Um, and we're still looking for people to join that, so if you are interested or have neighbors that are interested, definitely sign up for that. In the evening, we We have an event that we do with University Place Mall. It's called Orchards Jam. This year is America's birthday, so we will have foam cannons and giant lawn games and free cake and balloons. We'll also finish the night off with a silent disco. And then we have the Children's Entrepreneurship Market as well, which is all kids' version of a farmers market. They're very adorable. It's very fun. So definitely check that out.

Thank you.

come out for that. And then we will also start the carnival and the food vendors on Thursday. This year we have 11 AM to 10 PM on Thursday, 11 AM to 11 PM on Friday and Saturday, all at City Center Park. We'll have activities for the kids, which we'll talk a little bit more about, live music, and then like Knice mentioned earlier, really delicious food.

Okay, so for kids crafts, you won't want to miss that either. Bring the kids out for free craft. They can make that on Thursday and on Friday between 1 and 4. Really fun American-themed crafts there for you. We also have our makerspace from Orem Public Library coming out to help us out on Friday. So join us for some fun there. Uh, Sports Fest cornhole tournament. There are still some— there are still— um, am I coming through okay?

Okay.

There are still some spots available for, uh, signing up for the cornhole tournament. And Orem Fest Fit, if you haven't done this before, it's a lot of fun, a lot of energy outside, high fitness, spotlighting some of our, uh, instructors at the Orem Family Fitness Center just over at, at behind the Orem Fitness Center. So come out for that.

All right, on Friday night we also have the kickball tournament that's going to be at Community Park. That's a really fun one to get families involved. One of the big things this year is also Orem's Got Talent. It's the 10th anniversary. That's always a really fun way to see all of the talented people here in Orem. That's at 7 PM at City Center Stage, and we will finish Friday off with a drone show at 9:45. We'll have music there. You can also tune into KOHS. to hear the music if you're a little bit farther away, and should be really fun and exciting this year.

Okay, then comes Saturday, which is very packed with fun. We start off the day with our Rotary Pancake Breakfast. That's between 8 and 10, and there's always delicious toppings for this— these pancakes. So come out and support the Orem Rotary Club for that. Um, we also— just after you filled up, you can stretch out with yoga at the park just in front of the City Center stage. Uh, there is a baby contest, so if you have a cute adorable one, make sure to register for that. The contest, um, takes place over at the Hillcrest Park Center, and winners get to ride in the parade.

And then last but definitely not least, this year new is the Orem Fire Department Fun Run, which will happen before the parade. So we'll have a lot of fun, you know, people cheering everyone on. It is in support of the fire department restoring the historic Engine Number 1 and all of their funding for that. And so we have registered Registration also online. Then right following that, we'll have the grand parade, which, you know, we are excited for all of you guys to be a part of, excited to have everybody in there to finish the week off. And we'll finish it with the fireworks at City Center Park. And so that is kind of the end of the perfect week of OremFest, we hope.

Perfect. That's awesome.

Do you guys have any questions?

Any questions? Uh, Council Member Millett.

So I just have a couple comments. So now verify this for me. I was told last night that the fun run is along the parade route right before the parade, so you get to run in front of all your peeps and— yes, that is here along, right?

That is right.

Then I just want to do a big shout out. So I've done the— what was it called? I wrote it down— Um, I'm glad to see you moved it to 8 PM because I think we had it earlier and it was a little warm when we did earlier. So just, I love that. And then the last thing I want to say is thank you so much for your efforts to find support in the community and to have this sponsored because it used to be a budget item. So you guys have done a great job of helping our community help us pay for this Party. So thank you.

Yes, thank you. And I'll put a plug in for the Orem Fire Department fun run. Fun run— I did that many, many years ago, and it was along the parade route, and it was really fun. And I wondered why everybody was so excited when I came by. You know, they're giving me high fives. It was because I was in last place, and they knew that the parade was going to start as soon as that woman went by with that ambulance behind her, which I was glad to have. But anyway, it was really fun. And so it's a good cause. The whole event, all of WormsFest is really fun. So excited to be part of it this year. Thank you. All right, our next item on the agenda is our summer reading program, and our presenter is program librarian Meg Flinders-Pay. Welcome.

Thank you for having me here today.

Let me just get this—

is that better?

Is it working?

Okay, thank you.

All right, uh, my name is Meg Flinders, and I am the program librarian at the Orem Library. Um, I'm excited to share a Hi, I'm going to talk a little bit about the summer reading program that we have this year and to give you a glimpse of all the hard work and effort that our library staff have been putting in for over a year to get ready for this summer. Our theme this year, which was selected by the Collaborative Summer Library Program, is Unearth a Story. We are really excited about this theme. Whether readers are digging into a good book, uncovering hidden histories, or exploring the past, the slogan underscores the joy of discovery that reading brings. It also emphasizes that every person and every community has stories waiting to be found and shared through books, programs, and local knowledge. We run our program through an app called Beanstack, where patrons can create an account and track their reading minutes to earn badges and qualify for prizes and our special finale event. We anticipate about 2,000 participants between the ages of 0 to 18. The goals of our summer reading program are to encourage children and families to read over the summer break and to lessen the summer slide, which is a decline in reading comprehension and reading skills that can happen when children are not in school. We also want our young patrons to develop positive attitudes about books and reading, and we're also excited to provide free, engaging, and educational experiences for our community throughout the summer. We're starting the program off this Saturday, May 30th, with our kickoff event, In Time, which is presented by a performing group, Live History Shows. This interactive experience blends elements of an escape room, theatrical performance, and quest as our patrons explore the library and solve clues to complete the mission before their time is up. Patrons can sign up for the kickoff at library.orem.gov. Along with the kickoff, we have an exciting lineup of programs this summer, including a Red Pyramid Party celebrating the popular junior fiction series by Rick Riordan. Film screenings, Mammoth Day, where we are excited to feature Miro and talk about the mammoth discovered in Orem. Trash Talk, where our teens will get to dig through trash, which we are creating ourselves, so it's actually— it's not like actual garbage, to learn how archaeologists study civilizations, as well as many other fun and educational programs for all ages. You can subscribe to the library email newsletter to find out more about the events that are happening all summer long.

Oh yeah, did people get it?

Good.

In addition to great events, our patrons can also earn prizes for reading. We have ticket prize drawings that readers can enter to win And these include donations from local businesses and museums, as well as toys, books, and games. Everyone who finishes the challenge at ages 0 to 11 will earn a dinosaur toy, while our teen readers will earn a goodie bag which they have picked themselves, which— what they want in it, which I think is really fun. We will also have a special prize this year for completionists. They will earn a real fossil that was actually dug out by our librarians. Back in the fall, which was really fun. And you can see some of us here in that picture. We had a really good time getting to do that. And then our completionists will also earn entry into our annual pool party finale at the Sarah Pool. So we're excited to celebrate and reward reading all summer. And we wanted to thank the City Council and city administration and the amazing staff throughout the city and the library for making this program possible. Did you have any questions or comments?

Can we do one for grown-ups?

We actually do have a challenge for our grown-ups. It's called the Orem Reading Challenge, and it is about— it's a year-long challenge. It started in January and it will end in November. So that one is specifically for our adult readers because we found that the demands are a little bit different. So we're trying it a little bit differently this year.

So, all right, let's This is so fun. I'm so excited. Oh, Councilmember Meekham.

This is just fantastic. I, I'm thrilled with library programming. For those of you who don't know the way that our library thinks a little bit about its mission, it really has transitioned from a place where we collect and store books for you to check out and Now is much more of an experience library and a place where people come to engage with their community and to have experiences and, and to be inspired not only by books but by other members of the community. And these activities just go so far in terms of helping that along. So I just think this is a fantastic asset that we have as a community. And Meg, really appreciate your leadership on this.

Thank you.

Thanks so much.

All right, thank you. This is exciting. I can hardly wait to tell my granddaughter about it.

Thank you.

And so, thank you. All right, the next item on our agenda are, um, presentation, Miss Orem introductions. And so, presenters Donna Millard and Joanne Jeffs with the Miss Orem program. And looks like you brought some people with you. Welcome.

It wasn't too long ago we were at this very podium practicing our interviews, and now we have a brand new royalty for both our teen and our Miss programs. We will let them introduce themselves as well as their community service initiatives, but my name is Donna Millard. I am the Miss Orem director and thrilled to be here with you again and thrilled to here with this new group of young women. We are blown away every year at the caliber of young women that come through our program, and we, we, we think we're going to make them better, but they make us better. So without further ado, maybe Joanne can introduce herself. Certainly. I'm Joanne Jeffs. I am the events coordinator for the Miss Orem program, and so if you're at a ribbon cutting or a city event, you'll probably see me there. We love our city officials And we love interacting with you regularly. It is such a treat for our girls to have a relationship with the people that run the city, and we are so grateful for that.

Thank you.

So we'll turn the time over to the girls.

But again, we say this all the time, but we are very grateful and appreciate your support as a city councilman and of our program. So thank you.

Hello, everyone. You all know me already, but hello, my name is Melly.

the new Miss Sorum for 2026. My community service initiative is MLE for MLE, Multilingual Education. So I'm an advocate for especially dual language immersion programs here in Utah, but just bilingualism in general, I'm a big advocate for.

And my— one of my attendants, she's going to introduce herself. This is Brooke.

Hello, my name is Brooke, and my CSI is called Dreamers into Believers.

It's encouraging 5th grade students students to build leadership skills as they plan to create their dreams to help them come true in the future.

And then this is our Miss Orem's teen, and she's going to go ahead and introduce her teens.

Hi, I'm Andy Oldham. I'm 17.

My community service initiative is Stronger Than the Storm. It focuses on mental health awareness for teens mostly.

My attendants are Harley, Elsie, and oh my gosh, Sienna.

I swear I know. But, um, yeah, anyways, I'm excited to serve Orem this year. Um, I'm Harley Wilde and I'm the first attendant for the Miss Orem Teen Royalty, and my CSI is Keep It Green by Staying Clean, which is all about keeping our community clean and thriving.

and picking up trash and planting like plants and trees and flowers and just making Orem look beautiful.

I'm Sienna Busey. I'm the second attendant, and my community service initiative is called Notes of Hope: Amplifying Change Through Music. And it's all about connecting musicians with nonprofit organizations or other organizations that are already instated and helping bring more heart, awareness, and Hello, my name is Elsie Thomas and I'm the 3rd attendant, and my CSI is called the Joy Project, and it's all about finding healthy, effective coping mechanisms for people of all ages.

Thank you and congratulations. We look forward to working and serving with you this year. So thank you.

Thank you.

Right. Front row, slide this way just a little. There we go.

All right, on 3.

1, 2, 3.

Thank you so much.

I'm gonna take one with the camera too. Just a second.

Okay, we're good.

Thank you very much.

Should I say something, Mayor?

Sure.

We are grateful for these young women and the great work they do to serve our community, but I, I just want to give a shout out to Donna and Joanne. Um, they are behind the scenes and do so much good. Not only through this process of the pageants, but I've heard from multiple parents in the last month of how they are there to support these young women in some really powerful and empowering ways. And we just want you to know how much we appreciate you and the work that you do and your whole team for strengthening our community. And working with these amazing young women. So thank you.

Thank you. All right, our next item is a presentation by Cameron Wilson, a behavioral health specialist, and it's our Police Autism Picnic. So welcome, Cameron.

I'm so happy to be with you today. I should come to city council more often because I was sitting back there like, wow, there's so many cool things going on that I don't hear about in my little bubble over there. But like, like the introduction said that the mayor gave, my name is Cameron. I'm the behavioral health specialist that runs the mental health unit over at the police department. And I was asked to give a little recap on my favorite event of the year that I could talk about for a very long time. I'll keep it brief today, I promise. But this is our 5th annual Picnic with Police. Happened about a month ago. Just a little bit of background. The purpose of this event is to celebrate and enhance relationships between uniformed law enforcement and our citizens with special needs. When I first started at the police department about 6 years ago, Um, our now deputy chief was my lieutenant and he sat me down and he said, I want you to do a ride-along with every shift. I was like, really? Every shift? That's kind of a lot. Highly recommend, by the way, if you guys haven't been on a ride-along. Sorry, chief. I'm just throwing that out there. I'm sure it's fine.

Um, it's fine.

Maybe he'll take you himself, get back out on the road.

Could be fun.

Um, anyway, I went on a ride-along and I was brand spanking new, like 2 weeks on the job. I was with one of our officers. He's a He's a big old Polynesian one, cutest little smile on his face all the time, nicest guy, but he's big and physically intimidating. And he did a traffic stop on a minivan, and the mom had no license plate on the back of the minivan. He pulls her over, mom's like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. She's very stressed, and she's like, I just didn't have the right screwdriver. I have the license plate here, I just don't have the right screwdriver. And he goes, oh, well, I'll just put it on for you. So I'm in the front seat of his patrol car, and I'm watching him on the side of the road put this license plate on. And after a second, you can hear some, hear some things and see some things happening in the minivan. And I was like, uh, a little concerning. And he kind of looks back at me, and I look at him, and I'm like, hey, there's some stuff going on in there. He walks over to the driver's side, and the mom says, I'm so sorry, I have a son who's got autism, and he is terrified of police officers. And he was a young kid, and the officer, he runs back to his car, and he's trying to find some stickers and they all stay pretty stocked with like stickers and snacks and treats and things like that for situations like this. And, he's trying to get the kid to calm down and create some sort of rapport. The mom eventually just looks at him and is like, can you just, can you just let us go? He's like, yeah, totally fine. Have a good day. Well, I got back and my lieutenant asked me, how was your ride-along? And I said, this is bugging me. This is bothering me. So, I kind of vented a little bit and he goes, well, what are you going to do about it? I was like, uh, I don't know, been on the job for 2 weeks. And he said, well, that's why we hired you. So I brainstormed with my team, with great support from our administration, we came up with the Picnic with Police. So this is our 5th year. Our first year we were expecting about 200 people, we had about 500. Well, this year we had over 1,500 in attendance. We hit our target demographic very well. You can look around and see that It draws in the right people because it is an event that's needed. We had so many booths. We had over 70 police department employees there. We ran 15 different police booths. Connect Four, the grill, face painting, kickball, volleyball, Legos, you name it, they're doing it. That's a good chunk of our force, by the way. And we ran 15 different police booths, and then we had 22 local organizations. organizations, resource booths come in and do activities and, and give families the tools that they needed, hopefully to prevent a crisis situation in, in the, in the first place, right? Get them better connected. It's something that we can do in a reactive department to be a little bit more proactive. So I know in years past we've had some council members present. Bad timing this year, probably my bad. You guys were at a nice little retreat. I was not at the retreat. And that's okay. We'll catch you next year. But it's genuinely one of my favorite events. So the feedback was really great from attendees and the resource booths and our officers. They actually, not to brag or anything, but they fought about who had to work the road this year so that they could come to the picnic. So some of them duked it out and decided who covered what. But it's becoming just a— it's a really good event that we all look forward to at the department. I hear about it all year year long. Oh my gosh, you're the, you're the police department that does the picnic. We love that. And just the interactions are fun and genuine, and it's the best training I could ever give for our officers and the best interaction that I could give to the public to just kind of ease some of that tension and make sure that we have good relationships with the vulnerable population. So another thing to note, this event doesn't cost any taxpayer dollars. It's entirely run from donations and sponsorships. The Autism Council and Macy's were our 2 sponsors this year. And so big shout out to them and to our parks department, because I would die if the parks department didn't help me. So we're very, very grateful. Any questions?

Sounds like a wonderful event. I'm sorry we missed it. That's okay on that.

We'll, we'll be here next year.

So will I. Anybody else?

Say, I'm really sad when I found out that we were at our League of Cities and Towns convention, I was really sad. You guys do such a great job. I have several friends who take their children, and it's a game changer. It truly is that relationship building that takes place there. It looks like just a big party, but it truly, truly— you're fulfilling the purpose. So thank you for that inspiration.

Thank you. Thank you. Chief, anything I missed? Thank you so much for your time.

All right, thank you. All right, next item on our agenda are personal appearances. So time's been set aside for the public to express their ideas, concerns, and comments on items not scheduled as public hearings on the agenda. Those wishing to speak are encouraged to show respect for those who serve the city. Comments should focus on issues concerning the city. Those wishing to speak have already signed up, had the opportunity to sign up before the meeting, and I will stick with that list. There are over a dozen of you. And this last part, please limit your comments to 3 minutes or less. I just want to give you a heads up. I learned right before the meeting that we have a new timing system here. For the personal appearances, we've had some issues with people going over 3 minutes. And so I don't know if— do you want to do a test run, Pete, to show what's going to happen? So it goes— well, I guess, do we have to wait through the whole 3 minutes? Okay. So when it gets down to what's going to happen if Okay.

Yeah, as it, as it counts down, it'll give you a warning and then it'll do some chimes. But, uh, just respect the time is basically what we're asking.

Okay, so yes, it has that. So we ask that you, you do limit your comments to 3 minutes. I do notice that a number of you have, have spoken with us before about the same topic, so I would encourage you that you are just— if you don't need to take the 3 minutes, we're not going to make you take 3 minutes. That you can take is up to 3 minutes. And like I said, we have over a dozen who've signed up, all to talk about short-term rentals. So we'll go ahead and get started with Amy Horrocks. Is it Amy? Is that right?

Okay.

Yep.

Welcome.

Thank you.

I feel like the guinea pig with the new timing system. Um, thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts on short-term rentals. I didn't realize it was all going to be short-term rentals tonight. I'm definitely under 3 minutes.

My name is Amy Horrocks and I am a resident of Aurum.

I'm very grateful for the work that you all do as council members. And for the people that come to the City Council meetings, I do come as often as I can, and I enjoy hearing what's happening in the city. Clearly from my accent, I'm not originally from Orem, but my husband grew up here and we've been here for over 9 years now, and I love living in the city of Orem. Our youngest daughter just graduated from Mountain View last week, so it's been a privilege to feel exhausted from all the events that we've done to get her to that point. Um, but tonight I am here as a resident to express my concern for the issue at hand, which is short-term rentals and their continuation in Aurum. I'm concerned as the decision seems to be coming black and white, and I'm unclear as to why there is no middle ground for short-term rentals. I have good friends in the room here tonight whose primary source of income is through short-term rentals. They've created these short-term rentals legally and follow everything that is required of them. And I'm sure if you were to ask any of their surrounding neighbors or friends of these people, they would have no complaints amongst them. I'm sorry to hear about the terrible experiences that have been expressed by some of the residents of Orem with short-term rentals that are near them, and I've heard the stories and they do sound pretty horrific.

But that said, I can't help but wonder if there isn't a short—

a middle ground that does not completely remove short-term rentals, but rather makes it harder for those who are not adhering to the short-term rental laws continue providing this service.

I agree that these—

those creating significant neighborhood disturbance and disruption should be penalized heavily, but punishing every short-term rental owner for the bad behavior of some does not all in honesty seem fair. The friends I have who own short-term rentals are the kind of people I believe we all want as our neighbors in Orem. I would prefer we found solutions to protect them and remove the exploitation of the few who have found ways to do so. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

And I, and I apologize that I didn't mention this earlier as I saw what the topic is for everybody. I want to give you a quick update on where we are on short-term rentals. We just spent an hour, over an hour in our work meeting continuing to review short-term rentals and, and some of the, the issues with that. We appreciate legal staff, uh, particularly Jake Summers, for, for helping with that. Just to let you know where we are right now is this city council has directed our attorney's office to draft 2 different ordinances. One One ordinance would allow owner-occupied short-term rental units. The other ordinance would allow non-owner-occupied. It would be a 2-tiered system where there would be owner-occupied and then non-owner-occupied with a number allowed in the city to be determined. That is something that we still need to hammer out. So right now, that is where we stand on looking at those 2 ordinances. Thank you. Ordinances. Right now, uh, right now we've got June 23rd as our next work session where those 2 proposed ordinances will come back to the City Council for discussion. And we— I thought we had a productive meeting today, Council, as far as, as that's concerned. But that's, that's the update right now, that right now it appears that there isn't going to be an all-out ban because the 2 ordinances that the Council has directed include short-term rentals in the community. It's whether or not it's just owner-occupied, or are we going to allow non-owner-occupied as well. That's, that, that's where we are right now. Again, there's no final decision. That's not a final decision. We've got a long ways to go still before that final decision, but that's, that's where we are in our point of discussion.

Sure. Yeah, so just Just to your point, and that is a compromise. We are doing compromises. We have heard strongly from our residents that they want an all-out ban. So just so people understand, there are compromises that are happening, and just because it's not going to show up on an agenda in a future meeting doesn't mean that compromise wasn't made.

Do you want— I thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that clarification. clarification. I, I neglect that we— there were a couple of council members who felt a ban on all where it was appropriate. And so yes, what we're— what you're seeing and will be the ordinances that are coming forward on for our further discussion on June 23rd are compromises as we've gone forward. So thank you, thank you for that clarification. Appreciate it. Next is— is it Nico?

Romney.

Hello, my name is Nico Romney, and I work with short-term and long-term investors all over the state of Utah. We have long-term properties in Orem as well as short-term properties. Tonight, I just kind of want to focus on the economic side of things. Economic impact of these properties and also the economic benefit or just the overall benefit to the community of Orem. The majority of short-term rental owners I work with are not large corporations. They are local residents, families, and small investors. These are people who love Orem and believe in this community. They want to share it with investors or with visitors. Many are using these properties to help offset rising costs, create financial stability, and build long-term security for their families and retirement. Short-term rentals create consistent work for local cleaners, landscapers, handymen, plumbers, electricians, contractors, photographers, and small businesses. These properties also bring visitors into Orem who directly support local businesses. As a host, we actively encourage guests to support local businesses. We recommend Orem restaurants, including Taco Amigo and Maria Bonita, and so many more, um, to encourage our guests to, um, experience something new and experience something that's unique to Orem. Um, also, with most— in many cases, these guests already have strong ties to Orem. Um, a large portion are visiting family, friends, students, or local universities. Others are former residents returning to visit loved ones, attend graduations, weddings, sporting events, or community gatherings. Um, so, uh, we, we just ask for fair regulation. We, we do try to do everything we can to be good neighbors, to take care of our property properties to bring the quality of our neighborhoods up and to be very respectful. We send messages to renters. There is a huge benefit to these short-term rentals where people come in, oftentimes fall in love with the city, and do bring their families and move in. We've had people, we've had people come in, love it, come back, come back, and return and return again. We've actually had several who then came and bought homes in, in Orem. So we really do appreciate that you guys are listening, that you are making compromises, and you are working with us.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next up is Morgan Romney. Then after Morgan will be Chris Hammond.

Hi, my name is Aubrey Spicer. I'm taking his wife's spot because I was late to sign my name down, and I live next to a sober living home, a short-term rental property, and many long-term renters in my neighborhood. We were asked by some of our friends to come and share our experience with short-term rentals, sober living, and long-term rentals in our neighborhood. I understand the importance of occupancy limits and protecting neighborhoods, but I do not believe a blanket cap of 8 people, which I think is what you guys were looking at for every short-term rental, Is the solution to your guys' problem. Um, in our area, the short-term rental guests are families visiting for weddings, funerals, graduations, and events at BYU and UVU. Um, a family of 12 traveling together may only bring 3 or 4 vehicles and create very little neighborhood impact, and the home is kept in beautiful standing. In contrast, neighborhood impacts are usually caused by things like excessive parking, noise, trash, and poorly— poor property management, not simply the number of people inside a home. From my own experience, the short-term rental near me has had no issues because it has clear parking limits, rules, and active management.

That has mattered far more than the occupancy alone.

When our friend asked if we would come address our honest concerns with the different types of properties in our neighborhood, the short-term rental Sober living, long-term rentals, and owner-occupied homes. We have seen and have had far more issues with the sober living, long-term rentals than we have ever had with any of the short-term rentals. If the city's concern is truly neighborhood impact, then regulations should focus consistently on measurable issues like the parking overflow, nuisance behavior, property upkeep, and code enforcement across all housing types.

Thank you.

Um, long-term rentals in owner-occupied homes can also create significant neighborhood issues when properties are neglected, vehicles overflow onto the street, um, or ordinances are not enforced. The focus should be on the actual impact to neighbors, not arbitrary, uh, occupancy number alone. I would encourage the council to focus on measurable neighborhood impacts such as parking. Oh, did I just read that?

Oh, sorry.

Okay, I know Hebrew City has just implemented an occupancy rule of 16 guests capped, but the parking only allows whatever can fit in the driveway, which seems like a great way to respect neighbors and also encourage the right people to book. I love Orem. I've lived here now for 9 years, and I'm from Idaho originally, from a little farm town.

So it's been so fun to live in the big city for me.

And that's just what I've experienced so far is just the differences between short-term rentals, the sober living, and then the long-term rentals.

They just seem to be a little bit more problematic, and I wish there was more emphasis on them than the short-term rentals.

And I believe you can protect neighborhoods while still allowing responsible property owners to operate in a way that benefits visiting families and our local economy.

Thank you.

Thank you. Right, next, what? Um, Spicer, Aubrey Spicer, right? Okay, great. All right, next we have Chris Hammond, and then after Ms. Hammond, we have Welcome.

Hi again. So nice to see you all. Um, I am here one more time just to express, once again, my positive for short-term rentals. I spent a good part of my adult life looking at and studying correlations, evaluation policy, finding reasonable solutions for complex problems. I respectfully ask That arms city council to rely on statistics, data, and thoughtful planning in creating policy that makes sense for long term, solves a problem, and does not require a consider— reconsideration. Even last week, Salt Lake City is having to reconsider. We have the Olympics coming to Salt Lake, and they're not going to have adequate places for people to stay because they got rid of short-term rentals. And so they're having to relook at it. Boulder Park City is another one where Sundance is going, and they're going to have to reconsider there because of their restrictions that they've made. I am hoping that we can look forward-thinking versus backward. It's always nice to say back then was so much better, but we have got to look forward. BYU is adding a medical school. The U of U is increasing and doubling their nursing program. They're also adding another business program. The Osmonds announced their new venue, which I know is controversial, but we should be prepared for what's going to happen. We continue to hear claims that short-term rentals impact housing, but that is not true. There's no statistics that they enter that they make a change in that. And currently there are 263 homes in Orem for sale and over between 160 to 600 rentals that available. And so short-term rentals are not making an impact on that. We have repeatedly heard concerns about the sober living organization and how that impacts, but they are governed by entirely different federal government guidelines, and we need to look at that. And I have a professional paper that I'll hand out to you tonight. Additionally, for individuals with special needs, those kinds of homes are governed by the federal government, and individuals need their own space. And so I hope that you'll consider a bedroom count versus something that's 8. Um, historically, if we dictate how many, uh, days that something can be open, and a short-term rental is only available on average about 50% of the time. The street in front of my home is a public street, and I would hope hope that I have use of something that I pay taxes on. Let us be forward-thinking. Let us plan for the future growth of Orem. Let us consider the revenue that is brought in. I personally employ a crew of 10 people that are dependent upon what I do and how I manage. I respectfully ask the council to create a fair, balanced, and data-driven policy that preserves neighborhoods without having, um, the way we Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

And if you'd just like to drop— leave that with Melissa here, she'll make sure that we get those. All right, John Brooks, and then after Mr. Brooks, Jerry Duckworth. So welcome.

Yeah, thank you for your service. I am a neighbor of a rental property and one of the largest in the city of Orem, and I'm just here just to say that I, I don't ever see any issues. I never see any noise or anything of that. It's a great place to, to have family. CityUSA come back and have a large enough place for families to actually visit and be a part of. And I don't see any issues with it, and I'm just here to say that. I also see that on the same street, I do see issues with the, um, health hospital and also Cirque Lodge that have a tendency to walk down the street on Palisade. That has a bigger concern to me than having 0 cars in the street on a home that is a beautiful home. All it does is just bring people to Orem and, and be able to see our city.

And so I just say that, and thank you for your service.

Right. Thank you. Thanks for coming. All right, next we have Jerry Duckworth, and after Mr. Duckworth, we have Connie Romney will be, will be ready.

Come up.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Um, it's heartening to me as an American to see you all function so well when, uh, the times around the world are challenging. And it's a blessing from our founding fathers that you do such a good job. Anyway, I live in Provo, but I worked in Orem for close to 20 years for a mortgage company called American Lending Network. Mike Riley and Stephanie Brevard were the owners, and it was a pleasant experience, challenging. But I'm here on behalf of friends who live In Orem concerning short-term rentals. And I have known them for years and often visited a large, nearly 2-acre short-term rental property as it is immediately next door to a friend I often visit. I have occasionally been invited over by guests. along with my friend, to meet the guests that have rented the property for a week or two. A year and a half ago, I met a Jewish family of 30 to 40 people. And I was so impressed with their character and how they enjoyed being here. commenting on the mountains, the streams, the people are so nice. And my friend had known Bibi Netanyahu and his brother who was killed in the German Olympics years ago. And so there was an appreciation from our Jewish friends for his service. Uh, in security, uh, for the games. Uh, they live on site. They don't let noise become an issue. For years, the city has approved short-term rentals, recognizing the value of our local economy and our neighborhoods. These homes are more than just places to stay. They are where friends and family come together, share meals, celebrate milestones, create memories that last a lifetime. Short-term rentals allow visitors to experience our city in a personal, authentic way, supporting shops, restaurants, attractions. They foster cultural exchange. They help homeowners afford their homes in Orem by sharing responsibility with visitors. From both near and far away. I believe we can continue to uphold safety and neighborhood standards while preserving the benefit of short-term rentals. Let's keep this traditional life for our residents, our visitors, and the future of our economy. Um, 21 seconds.

Okay.

If you look at the world conditions, imagine if you own a short-term rental and all your income comes from that. And if our economy, which is really our deficit, national deficit, what would happen to people who get threatened by reduction in Social Security or their income's gone. You know, we have to take that into account, and particularly if they followed the guidelines the city had approved prior. Please take that into account. And, um, I, uh, thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, next we have Connie Romney, and after Ms. Romney we have Gavin, Gavin Nebeker. Welcome.

Hi, good evening. Um, I'm coming as a different aspect of it.

Um, I, I'm— I clean the places, and I wanted to talk to you tonight because, um, it has made a real big difference in our life. It's a second job for me. It's made a big difference for our family. It's helped us to handle the high cost of things. My husband, he retired really early, and so it's helped us, our family, to get control of our finances. For me, it's not about corporations or That is about families and being able to handle the costs of things. And that it isn't— the places like the clean, the homes, they've been—

I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought.

We—

many of the The guests are visiting families from here. They're, um, during their stay, they're, they're, you know, going out to the local restaurants and stuff. And I understand we should have rules and stuff, but we also should support these people. Um, the, like, the one that I cleaned here, it's beautiful. The yard is beautiful, everything's beautiful around it, but the house next door that someone lives in, it looks like it's falling down. For some of the— and for us, it's stability in our home, and it's been quite an asset to us. And I just wanted you to know from that aspect what it has done for us. It's made a big difference. In our lives, um, we wouldn't be— we wouldn't be able to make it without the income that it's made for us. So that's just a different aspect for us.

Appreciate your thoughts. And for us, thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, Gavin Nebeker. And after Mr. Nebeker, we have Ingrid Peñaranda. Did I even get close? Okay, she's nodding. I'm feeling better about that. Okay.

Welcome.

Well, thank you. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, city council members. Um, I mean, the, the first lady that came and spoke, I just wanted to basically say, amen, that's very similar to my story here.

So, but my wife and I, we moved here to Orem probably about 3 years ago with our family, and we've spent a lot of time getting to know our neighbors and our community, our church community, and it's been such a blessing.

We're very grateful.

for it.

After getting to know our neighbors and our community, we've learned that some of them had been operating an Airbnb, and we actually had never known that, as there hadn't been any disturbances from their guests, and they had been great, you know, owner-operators.

And they've continued to contribute greatly to our community, and there's You know, again, been nothing that has been done to disrupt our family and all the things that we've been looking for in owning a home and living here in Orem.

Um, in fact, you know, I'm very grateful for them because as, as we've had my wife's family and other family members come to visit, they've been able to stay close by and not have to, you know, be in a hotel.

And so we've been able to spend more time with them.

Also, my wife and I, we, I mean, our family, we have a child who has some special needs. And so it's harder for us to be able to get out. And so on our anniversary, we were able to stay at another Airbnb that was just a couple blocks away. So we were still close for any medical concerns from our babysitters or whatnot. And so it was great for us to be able to still have that experience to go stay in another home that isn't just ours. And so what I've learned Um, as I've learned more about the coming restrictions, um, from our neighbors and other hosts, I have felt bad for the great services that they've been providing, um, which benefit the community and could be jeopardized and cause some of them to potentially move. Now, I understand that there have been some, you know, bad apples, um, but I do fear that there will be an overcompensation in the effort to correct those, which in turn will help, which in turn will hurt all the other short-term rental owners and even their neighbors and friends or people like me who've been able to benefit from those. So again, thank you for your time.

All right, thank you. Appreciate your, your thoughts. All right, Ingrid, and then after Ingrid we have— is it Rocío? Rocío Lozano?

She leaves. Oh, she had to leave.

Oh, she had to leave. Okay, so I'll cross her off. Okay, welcome.

Thank you.

I do not speak very well English because my first language is Español, Spanish.

So she's going to help me.

Okay, translate.

Okay, okay.

Um, yo vivo acá en Orem desde el 2017.

She's lived in Orem since 2017.

Oh, can I interrupt? 2017. Let's give them just a little bit longer time because we've got an interpreter. So we'll keep the clock running, but but let let yeah.

Thank you.

But still give a little bit bit more time.

En este año pasado, como yo tengo un hijo con síndrome de Down, tenía que quedarme en casa para cuidarlo porque él terminó sus clases.

She has a Down syndrome son, and so for her to go out and work, it makes it really hard. They thought it would be thoughtful to take a place and make it beautiful so that they could give service to their community this way.

Ese espacio, nuestra suite que la rentamos, ha servido para mucha gente que ha venido a dejar a sus hijos al Centro de Entrenamiento Misional.

They've had people visit, such as families. People come to the MTC to serve missions.

También a la universidad, y nos sentimos felices por brindar ese servicio.

She's just grateful that she can have people and provide that, that help to those who come to visit in the college and whatnot.

So that she can be home and take care of her child.

Thank you so much.

Gracias.

Thank you. All right, next up is Brendan Beebe.

Welcome.

Thanks guys for having me. I do a Substack where I comment and listen to every city council meeting, and I followed this discussion for probably 2 years now. I think you guys have been talking about it. And I like to try to bring data and details to it that maybe the city council doesn't have. And I know recently, I think I emailed most of you guys, but It was talking about how many Airbnbs are in Orem. And I think there's currently 89 Airbnbs that are whole homes that you guys are trying to create rules around.

It's just 89.

And there's 200 total Airbnbs listed currently or in the last 12 months. A lot of numbers get thrown out there. I think there's a recent newspaper article around like 500 to 600. But in my Substack, I list out the sources and how you can actually go just validate that yourself. And so I'd invite you guys to do that. And what I'm also trying to do is I put in a GRAMA request for every neighborhood improvement complaint made since 2024 out of just my own pocket. But I plan on bringing that data to you guys in a detailed analysis of like, what are we talking about?

Because what I've noticed is that it's the same 6 to 7 homes that come up in every single city council meeting.

And the rules we're putting out there and the rules you guys are creating, I want to make sure that's not around the anecdotes and the feelings that we have around these 6 properties, and it's about, about what's actually happening in Orem. So thanks for having me.

All right, thank you. Next we have Aaron Kirkham, and then after Aaron we have Laura Herron.

Hello, Council. My name is Aaron. I'm a resident of Sandy. I'm here on behalf of 2 of our clients. We manage vacation homes. Our company is called Conmigo Vacation Rentals. We manage homes in Idaho and in Utah. I'm a member of the Idaho Vacation Rental Association, and what I wanted to talk about tonight was in regards to the occupancy limits of 8 and potentially the 5 days, specific as it relates to McCall, Idaho. McCall, Idaho had an occupancy limit of 4 people per bedroom They changed it to 2 people per bedroom, were sued by 5 different individuals, and lost to those 5 individuals. That also then helped stimulate House Bill 583, which recently passed in 2026, which has removed all regulation within the state of Idaho for short-term rentals. And all residential units need to be treated equally underneath the protection of the law for being a residential unit. That's really my biggest fear as it relates not just to our clients, but the whole argument of 8 people as well as 5 days of blocked out unavailable. Really, it does appear that the city wants us to host people for longer because they're trying to remove elements of short-term rentals, thus long-term makes more sense. And so if we have a guest who stays longer, actually within our own In our own portfolio, we've had a shift of about 50% of our portfolio within the summer. So that's 30 to 40 homes from Salt Lake City down to Provo shift to what is called midterm, 30 days or longer. It's traditionally contractors who are coming to the area, families, architects who are building but need places for an extended stay. Putting in a 5-day limit would remove that opportunity for those individuals as well. as from just a straight standpoint of only having 8 people just doesn't follow a systematic approach of how to use the home. We also have a place in Kanab, Utah. We follow Kane County's rules. Today, I got my license for our short-term rental. We follow their rules, which are 2 people per bedroom. We have 3 buildings on 1 property, and in there, we have the capacity to sleep 16. We're only allowed 10, So that's what we do. It's still— we've found ways to make it profitable. And that would be my request, or my input, is that I think that the city would be opening themselves up to potential liability of adding more restrictions as it regards to people using their own homes, whereas anybody who has a business license, they can be open 30 days. Yet for some reason, if you have a short-term rental, you can only be open for 25, or only can have 8 people into your business. That's my feedback that I want to give.

Thank you, Council.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Right, Laura. Okay.

Okay.

Welcome.

Hi. Sorry, we had some confusion with the people. So Laura is actually Aubrey, who took my place. So I'm going to speak for her. I'm Morgan Romney. So you've heard a lot from the Romneys tonight. So, um, I appreciate that.

I know—

I'm sorry, this is not how city councils go, but I'm going to come up and take my turn. So, um, I'm Nico's wife, Morgan. Um, just some quick background, I lived in, uh, Orem up until we got married, and he made me move to Salt Lake County. So I, I apologize. Um, but, um, I attended UVU. I have friends and coworkers that live in Orem. Um, and the one thing that everyone can agree on is that it is an amazing city. My favorite festival is the festivals, the, um, the Orem Fest they were just talking about tonight. Um, also, the Orem Library is amazing. I've worked in tourism industry for almost my whole career, and my husband prides himself on helping locals with homes that would otherwise— they would otherwise lose because of various situations. His first home he bought was actually in Orem, which was the jumping point to what we now live in. I think that is important to have places for business people, families of citizens, and tourism tourists to come Stay for extended period and fall in love with what I think we all love about Orem. Nico has been able to hire local cleaners, lawn mowers, plumbers, and repairmen. I hear a lot about it all the time, right? We're also a small business just trying to survive. If we say an absolute no, which I know we're not, but just the thought behind the different rules to these short.

terms.

Many people may lose income in a very turbulent time in our economy, economic history. Thank you for your time and considerations. Again, I'm sorry for the back and forth with the presentations, but thank you.

All right, thank you. And Nico, has she forgiven you for having her leave Orem?

Okay.

All right, thank you. All right, council and members of the, of the audience, that concludes our personal appearances. Thank you for coming and being part of the process here in our city. We really appreciate hearing from you. The next item on our agenda is our one consent item. We have needed to update our City Council 2026 schedule. And so I would look for a motion to approve that consent item.

So moved.

Thank you, Councilmember Kilpatrick. Do we have a second?

I'll second.

All right, thank you, Councilmember Meekum. All right, I'll, I'm going to start off. I'm going to vote aye, and we'll go to the Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, thank you. Motion carries. Uh, items— we're now items 10, um, the scheduled items. 10.1 is a presentation of the Orem Community Development, or CDBG, updated annual action plan and proposed budget. And our presenters, uh, this evening are Bradley Day, our community and sustainability officer, and Jessica Deloitte, Mountainland Association of Governments. So, welcome.

Thank you.

Is that on?

Okay.

Thank you so much for having us. As Mayor McCandless said, I'm Jessica DeLora with Mountainland Association of Governments. Um, work closely with Bradley on the Community Development Block Grant program.

So, do you have anything, or would you like to start?

Okay. Um, so tonight we were originally planning to have the council vote on a resolution. to approve the draft annual action plan that we submit to HUD every year. But we didn't need to make a change to the plan and push that timeline back a little bit. So I'm gonna talk to you about that. If I get too into this CDBG speak and don't make any sense, please feel free to interrupt me so I can try again.

Okay.

So there are 2 things that we're trying to accomplish right now with the CDBG program. One is submit that annual action plan, and the other is to wrap up the city's revolving loan fund and reprogram those funds for other uses. So I'll give you a little background about the revolving loan fund. The program was started, I think, several decades ago, if I'm correct. Okay, several decades ago to help small businesses through loans for working capital and those kinds of things. There have been many successful businesses that I'm sure you're aware of that got their start with these funds, but it has become increasingly difficult for businesses to meet the federal requirements, compliance, and reporting requirements of the CDBG funds for the smaller dollar amount that they can get through the program. That cost-benefit analysis hasn't really worked out in the last few years. So the last loan was made in 2017, so it's not been super active, as you can tell. And so that means that there are now some unspent funds that were programmed for the business loan program that haven't been used. So that's about $350,000 in that program, and that has triggered a different issue with HUD, what they they call the timeliness test. You can't have more than 1.5 times your annual allocation in your CDBG bank account. And so we're trying to address the revolving loan fund so that we can get under that 1.5% as we pursue other projects. Um, in 2021, HUD came and did a routine monitoring of the program. A couple of businesses did raise flags. They were unsuccessful in their business or unable to provide the jobs required for the CDBG funding. And so what that did was trigger a finding that the city had been working through. And then when MAG came on to administer, we've continued that work to help the city reconcile the historic records from many decades and just make sure that we're ready to close that program with the CDBG program and HUD.

Yes.

So as I mentioned, we've been working to do that. That leaves us with $350,000, and we do have to include that amount in the upcoming annual action plan. We just found out from HUD in order to meet that timeliness, we've got to program it into the current action plan. That wasn't originally in the budget for this year's action plan because we were still working with HUD to resolve it. The government shutdown and their short staffing put all of that work on hold. And so we've reinitiated that conversation, but the timing has just really not been great. So, um, what we need to do is reprogram those funds, um, in a placeholder project for this year's action plan. What that means is that we'll put a generic capital improvements project into the plan. We'll restart the public comment period and then come back to you next month to get A resolution to approve that plan. We'll then work with the city and with the Citizen Commission and take public input on how to actually reprogram those $350,000. So we're putting a placeholder in there to meet one requirement so we can move forward on another one. A little convoluted, but that's how we're going to address that. So you can see, this is the new expected funding, the annual allocation. What we get regularly from HUD is that $563,000. And there's about $100,000 from past year projects that came in under budget or didn't proceed for some reason. And then we do anticipate making a little bit of cash there on the single-family rehab loan program that we incorporate. And then you'll see that $350,000. So we're looking at just over $1 million to program for this year. And this is the new allocations by project So that $350,000 has gone into that first line item, the public facilities and infrastructure. Nothing else has changed in the projects that you saw presented last month. And so our next steps, we'll be holding a public hearing at MAG and online on June 11th. We would normally try to do that in this setting, but because of your schedule, we can't get that done in time to submit the action plan So, we will make that available to citizens online and at our offices from 5:15 to 6:00 PM on June 11th. We have also opened a comment period for the public, just started a few days ago, and will go through June 22nd. So, we'll be taking comment that whole time. We have links to that from the ORM website to the ORM CDBG website that we host. So, we will take those comments. And then we will come back to this council To vote to approve that action plan on June 23rd and submit that to HUD. Um, and as I mentioned, we will work with the city, um, and the Citizen Commission to identify priority projects once we get past this annual action plan submission.

That's all I have. All right. Thank you. Yeah, I know that in our discussions that the holdup On the, on the $350,000, it's not our city's doing. It's, it's, you've been wanting to do something, get this, but it's been on the federal—

Yep.

Federal government. And the reason I just want to point out, one of the— as I read this, the reason why this money hasn't been used is because the dollar amounts that are available, council, for revolving loans do not justify the amount of bureaucracy needed to accept and use the loans. Is that, is that a fair statement?

Very fair statement.

Yes. Okay.

So I just want to make sure that, that it's— it just wasn't worth it. So, um, council, do you have any questions for Jessica or Bradley? Okay, thank you. Um, Councilmember Miller.

Okay, and I talked to Jessica earlier. Um, so just a few more comments. Um, I really appreciate this $350,000. $50,000, and I appreciate your mention— mentioning the, um, our rehab loan program. Really hoping that we can have some opportunity to further invest in Orem through renewal through that program. I think you've done some great things. Um, one of the—

the—

and having spoken with her, talked about this is our plan, we are at the end of this cycle. Your presentation here is at the end, just to make it clear to everyone, and we will be doing A new cycle this fall with applications and everything. One thing we did kind of chat about was expanding the opportunities to other nonprofits. As I've looked through the plans, I was on CDBG for a few months my first year on the council, and then I got shifted to another, I think the Lake Authority Commission or something, I can't remember. But, um, um, I, I'm seeing the same nonprofits. that are receiving CDBG benefits. And I looked on, like I just did a search today of food pantry resources or groups, nonprofits for that. And there were some great fun names like Lasagna Love and Homestyle Direct Meals and Mom's Meals, things like that. And I think one of the things that we talked about was food pantries are great, but as I've been involved in some, efforts to help feed our children. I'm finding that it's the same problem I have in my home. I go to the grocery store, I buy things, and they don't always make it in a meal to the table because maybe I don't plan ahead enough to put it all together at the right time, or whatever reason. Or maybe there's an education aspect there. So I guess I'm just advocating for 2 things. The first one is maybe in the future when we start looking for new projects, Look for different ideas. Look for ways to maybe deliver a meal to a family versus little parts of a meal that they don't know what to do with. And then some education in cooking. I know our— my hometown is having classes on meal prep to help families. We all think we know how to do that, but there are a lot of people who weren't raised in a family that had a meal on the table for them, for their family, unfortunately.

Right.

Um, and I guess the last thing would be— the second thing is just that point of, uh, you talk about the red tape issues, Mayor. Help us help you. You know, we were sitting in an event here Saturday with Senator Curtis here in Orem. I see Senator Lee often. I would love to know what the needs are, how we can cut the bureaucratic red tape, or give suggestions to push up the pipeline directly from you, from the needs that you have. And otherwise, you know, there's going to be other people making those suggestions. So why not have it be us, right? Why not you?

Yep.

So anyway, I look forward to working with you more in the future and having that teamwork to try to fix some of these things that bureaucracy just shouldn't be involved in.

Yeah, absolutely. And if I may respond, I appreciate those comments, and I think they point to maybe a 2-pronged approach we can take to make sure that the applications we receive are meeting the needs of the city and are being used effectively. The first one at just the local level is building up organizations that don't currently have the capacity to meet all those compliance requirements. In the long term, I think working with our elected officials at the federal level to try and streamline some of that is a good way to go. But in the short term, building capacity of organizations to meet those Mayor McCandless, you know how complicated it can be to meet all the requirements and submit all the reporting, have all the financial management and administrative controls in place to comply with CDBG. It's just, it's not easy for organizations. So I think one thing we could do is, um, if we target organizations that are doing the work that the city thinks is important and would like to see doing some technical assistance, technical assistance to help them prepare for receiving a grant or being competitive to receive a grant. So we would certainly love to hear any organizations that you have your eye on that might, you know, carry out the work that we need, that we could help build that capacity so that when application time comes, we know that they can carry it out. We don't want to set any organization up for failure with a federal grant that could end up in paybacks and noncompliance. So that's really important, I think, on our level.

Did you have something?

I just, I was just going to mention, thank you. That's, that's the thing is I was thinking about these little groups. I first thought it'd be interesting to have a consortium of the, of the groups and have, have one person be the— do all the compliance. Or like when I was at— when I was running Community Action, what we would do is we would work with little organizations who didn't have the capacity for the financial or the compliance capacity. subcontract with them. So they actually were able to provide the services that they had, that they have, but they didn't have to have all of that expertise on staff.

Yep.

And so that's a good point, that there are a lot of different options out there. Because I follow Lasagna Love on— it was one that perked my interest. I follow them on social media, and they're a wonderful, wonderful organization. And I love lasagna. And so, but anyway, and then food security is near and dear to my heart. But yeah, I think that there are some options that we have as council members to let Bradley know, let Jessica know that how can we, what's important to our community, and let's see, are there partners out there who can help facilitate that?

Yep. And I'll say we maintain a funding availability mailing list. It's thousands of entries long at this point, so we're always adding new organizations as they come along or get on our radar or maybe do work that fits with CDBG. Our website has a link where any organization or individual can get on that mailing list, or if we hear it from any of you, we'd be happy to add people to it. So that can help us reach more organizations, and also if you have one specifically you're interested in, we can do that targeted technical assistance too. And we'll see if they're a good fit for funding for that program.

And can I just— the Lasagna Love, it looked to me like they just deliver lasagna, right? Oh, they deliver love through lasagna. But why not— and I think we maybe said this— deliver a recipe with it? Deliver, this is how you can make it in your home. This is what you have to buy, mom, you know, who's overwhelmed already with looking for a job or making ends meet. But anyway, just— now I would love to see a little more out-of-the-box thinking. thinking on ways we can, and I really appreciate, Mary, you're saying that of how to help these other groups become more effective.

And then I think our other maybe suggestion of how we could accomplish your goals, once we identify projects that you're interested in and find a partner that has capacity to implement that, is to, we'd love to run a project, you know, together and see, is this feasible? Is it eligible for CDBG? What are all the compliance requirements that come with that particular type of activity. We always want to do that as early as possible so we don't spend a lot of time building a project that ultimately is just a bad fit for CDBG, and there just are projects like that, and I think our experience has really helped us find what those are. So, if you have an idea you want to kick around, we'd love to do that in the early stages and say, okay, if you want to do this, here's the kind of stuff, here's the data we'll have to get from the From the organization that they'll have to report on clients and all those kinds of things. It helps us really figure out what's feasible early on in the stage. So we would love to do that. That process also helps us identify where the red tape is. We can say this project would be great. Here's the CDBG red tape that is holding it back. And those might be the things that we could take to our federal elected officials and say, this isn't regulatorily required, but it's been a HUD mandate and those kinds of things we could maybe identify. that way. And then again, finding the right partners whose vision and mission aligns with what the city needs and building those projects as early as we can so that they're ready. And sometimes that takes more than 1 year, 1 cycle, and maybe we'll start the conversation in the next cycle, but they won't be ready to apply or to implement a project until another year or 2. So those are my recommendations. Of course, we really need the city's help in identifying what it is you're looking for and the partners that would be a right fit, but we'd love to help ideate on those projects that would be most beneficial for sure.

Yep.

All right. Any other comments, council? All right. Thank you. Appreciate it.

See you next month.

All right. We'll see you next month.

Thank you.

Right. Another— oh, a very long sentence. Okay. Public hearing. We have a public hearing now. Ordinance amending Articles 2- 15-2, 2-15-11, 2-16-2, and 22-21 of the Orem City Code relating to the powers and duties of the Planning Commission and special exceptions. And it almost gave you enough time to get up here and set up.

Almost.

Oh, I could, could have done a little more slowly, but I didn't. Welcome. Um, Jared Hall, our planning manager, will be presenting.

Thank you. If he gets everything plugged in and running, he'll be presenting. So, thanks. I am— this is a text amendment that the planning staff brought forward. We just, to put it in a nutshell, has a lot of different articles and citations there. You can really break it down into 2 parts, and I want to background it first by saying there are different things that the planning Commission does, different things that the Board of Adjustments does. Among those things are special exceptions. These are already part of code. The Board of Adjustments, usually when people think of the Board of Adjustments, they think about variances, and that's still correct. The Board of Adjustments handles variances in their powers and duties, and they handle a couple of different special exceptions, which don't have to meet the same, uh, really stringent standards of special, uh, variances. The Planning Commission does, uh, land use recommendations to you legislatively and does the administrative Duties that they have, and those powers and duties are all in Article 2 for both of those different bodies. So that's why you see the Article 2 references. Article 2221 is part of our zoning code, and it's a specific special exception. Okay, so what does this amendment that we're proposing do? It changes the— it makes a couple of changes to powers and duties as they relate to the Board of Adjustments and the Planning Commission in order to transfer, to transfer the review and granting of special exceptions from the board.

Okay.

To the Planning Commission instead. Um, and specifically, there are 2 special exceptions in our code. One is for billboards, um, because the billboard lobby has power to say, we want to change this billboard or relocate it because of these circumstances. And we grant a special exception for a very couple of very specific circumstances. The Board of Adjustments has traditionally reviewed those and said, okay, uh, and granted them if it meets the standards. And then the second one is a finding of an exception to allow multifamily development on single-family parcels in certain circumstances. There's a long list of circumstances that you have to make that finding for. Uh, we're not proposing any changes to those. That's in addition to this. What does it not do? It just transfers the burden of reviewing those exceptions and the eligibility for them, and then granting them to the Planning Commission instead of the Board of Adjustments. Does that make sense enough?

So it's just who, who reviews it, and that we're not making any change, proposing any changes to any of The other ordinances or anything.

That's exactly right.

Just who it goes to for review.

Okay, that's exactly right. Um, so this is the list of them. Uh, some of them are things that we— there are in 25— or sorry, in 215.2, for example, that's an addition. It doesn't say anything about the board— or sorry, about the Planning Commission in its powers and duties doing special exceptions. So we would need to say specifically they're empowered to do that. 215.10 is that exception for relocating billboards. Um, that section is related to the BOA. We would strike that because we wouldn't want them to do that anymore if this is approved. 216.2, that's powers of the board. We would strike them hearing those exceptions. 216.11, that grants the— that creates a section or changes the name for the BOA and the Planning Commission to hear them instead. And then 2221, again, that criteria. There are a couple of places in the body of 2221 where it references the Board of Adjustments must make this finding. in order to grant eligibility for this exception. Uh, we would change those to Planning Commission, and that is in a nutshell what this would do. We don't have a lot of applications for this. There aren't a lot of properties that meet eligibility. Um, the ones that we've had brought to us so far have failed eligibility and haven't been eligible. So we'll, we'll keep—

All right, thank you. Um, Councilmember Meekum.

So, uh, Jared, I was there at Planning Commission when this was brought forward, and it made sense to them. Gives them more stuff to do potentially. My understanding is that one of the motivations for this change is that the Board of Adjustments meets very irregularly.

Yes.

And that can cause problems in terms of getting things done. And the Planning Commission meets twice a month. And so Planning Commission would be able to deal with these in a much more timely way. Is that correct?

That's, that's correct. For 2 reasons, really. The first being that the board doesn't meet as often. Or it meets very irregularly, only when there are applications. And the 2nd being that part of Article 2221— everyone hates when I talk about 2221. The staff is so sick of it. When part of Article 2221 is finding the eligibility, that's the Board of Adjustment's job. And then within that same body, the Planning Commission has to review a site plan if it's approved for eligibility, if it's granted the special exception, and then apply all of these different standards. And they are a little different than normal. multifamily or site planning standards. So it just made sense to say, why are 2 different bodies reviewing the same standards? And then one of them is saying, okay, you can apply these standards, and the next body is applying them. Let's just let the one body do it, especially because they're land use decisions having to do with the billboards and the, uh, the multifamily standard there.

My second question is, uh, how does the Board of Adjustments feel about this? And, uh, what Duties remain for them that we are not transferring over?

They, they still get— that's a great question. They still get, in my opinion, the worst of all possible land use duties, which is variance. They still have to review variances, which are just monstrous things to have to review. The 5 tests of hardship and emotions run really high. So they still have a terrible job to do. And I would ask them if I could convene them, but all of them are, um, are, are in that period between having served. We need a new Board of Adjustment. So I don't know how they feel about it. You'd have to contact them. My guess is they've probably not reviewed a lot of these exceptions over the years. Their job, their main job has always been variances and probably always will be, and appeals. They hear appeals too, so they get 2 of the worst jobs.

So do you have a sense on an annual basis how many of these special exceptions might come before either the Board of Adjustments or the Planning Commission?

I only know of one that was done in, I think, '21, was reviewed in like 2018, 2019, something like that. So I'm only aware of the one. I wouldn't expect one more than every couple of years, possibly.

I've only seen a Board of Adjustments meeting once in 5 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that was— yeah, and that was maybe for an exception. We had the Board of Adjustments meet for a variance in the 2 years I've been there. Not quite 2 years. Had the Board of Adjustments meet once. Previous locations, previous municipalities where I've worked in later years, Boards of Adjustments have met. Less frequently for actual variance cases. I might hear 2 or 3 a year at the very most in a very active BOA.

Right. Council, any other questions?

Right.

This is a public hearing, so I'm going to go ahead and open the public hearing. If anyone who— anyone would like to speak to these proposed amendments to the city code, you're welcome to come up and introduce yourself and make your comments. Seeing none, I'll go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the council. So, council, what would you like to do with this?

Mayor, I'd like to make a motion. I move to approve by ordinance amending Articles 2-15-2, 2-15-11, 2-16-2, and 22-3. 21 of the Orem City Code relating to the powers and duties of the Planning Commission and special exceptions.

Right.

Thank you. We have a motion.

I second.

Right. Thank you, Councilmember Kilpatrick, for the second. So we have a motion and a second to approve. Is there any more discussion? All right, Councilmember Kilpatrick, how do you vote?

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Okay, the motion carries. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is a public hearing, another one. It's an ordinance amending Article 22-5-3A in the zoning map of the City of Orem by changing the zone of the property located generally at 355 West University Parkway from R-8 single-family residential to C-2 commercial, together with a development agreement limiting certain uses. So I'll go turn the time over to you, Mr. Hall.

Thank you. Um, thanks again. So this is a request for a zone change, as you said, to C-2. This property that you can see here, it's just under 6 acres. This was the, um, the demonstration gardens for the, for the conservation district, or the— I'm getting the wrong word. I'm distracted by the Garden of Eden. It's like we're conducting the people's business from the Garden of Eden here. We should have this all the time. By the time you get to Bren, you're in the wasteland, and then further out, The further you go that way, but you guys are all good still. So, um, it, it, yeah, it was the— it was, uh, it was a demonstration garden. It stayed in the R-8 zone. So it's a nonconforming use. This office building here, it's been used as an office for some time, but it's been nonconforming to the R-8 zone. The applicants in this case have come, uh, with an application to change the zoning to C-2. This is University Parkway out front. Um, the, the project is— this is a snip from the land use map in the general plan. Uh, it's regional commercial. C-2 is one of the zones that's prescribed by regional commercial. There are several. Um, most of the properties along the parkway are in this regional commercial land use category. Several of them in terms of zoning are in, for example, highway services here, and then the PD-5, which is a specialized commercial zone, a development agreement kind of a zone, and some others. Uh, they've asked for the C-2 zoning for some flexibility in site planning. A PD zone limits the site plan. They're shopping for different tenants. They want to have some ability to— this is really good visibility for some great retail. They want it as, as, uh, potential developers to be able to accommodate different higher-end retail establishments if they come through. They have provided a concept site plan. Um, because we asked for that with our zone change applications. Uh, the site plan that they provided, as you can see, it incorporates still that office building that would remain. And then another about 12,000 square feet, just over 12,000 square feet of retail can be accommodated with the parking that's needed in that area. And they would choose that kind of high side visibility to University Parkway. There are standards in place with C-2 zoning that require buffering from residential. Buildings have to be set back at least the height of the building from residential property lines. And as you can see, there is this very established residential neighborhood just to the rear. There's already a wall in place back here and some landscaping that would all be maintained in any kind of a site plan for the buffer. Again, though, I want to stress that site plans are— we look at concepts for these zone changes, but the C-2 would allow them to hunt for different tenants for these areas. And, and site planning as a process. If it were rezoned to our— sorry, to R-2. If it were rezoned to C-2 zoning, they'd still have to come back through the Planning Commission for any site plan and development. Um, so that's, that's one thing to be aware of.

So this site plan is not part of the development agreement?

Not part of the development agreement that they proposed after meeting with the neighborhood and then with the Planning Commission, uh, is limited to uses. They, um, The neighborhood was concerned about vehicle-oriented uses, car sales, gas stations, that kind of thing. They had no problem with that as a developer. In fact, they just added several things to that as well. Areas that they're not interested, or different— sorry, different uses that they're not really interested in leasing to on this property. So they would eliminate those in their development agreement as well. The Planning Commission added tattooing to that when they made their motion at their public hearing. Um, they held their hearing on April 1st, then the applicant went, developed a development agreement, came back on April 15th, and they were voted 6 to 0 to recommend the city approval along with that development agreement. But it is limited to uses, these different uses that they would voluntarily eliminate from their lists.

All right, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Hall? Where's the applicant here this evening? Right, welcome. Would you like to come up? And introduce yourself, and if there's anything you would like to add, please feel free to do so.

Absolutely.

Thanks for having me tonight. My name is McKenna Christensen with Cole West. Jared gave a really great overview, but just to give you a little more background, we chose the C-2 zone rather than a PD, like Jared said, just to have some flexibility if we need to change some of the building elevations, make it bigger, smaller to accommodate tenants. Um, we wanted the flexibility to be able to do that without having to come through an entire zone amendment process and then a site plan. Um, so we, we had a, a really good meeting with the neighbors, went to 2 Planning Commission meetings, talked through all the uses. Um, I think we landed on, on a really good compromise with this development agreement. But if there's any questions, concerns, I'd be happy to answer any of those.

All right, thank you. Do you have— Council, do you have any questions? Questions for the applicant. All right, thank you, Councilmember Millett.

Okay, a few questions. So, Cole West, what do you guys specialize in? You're a retail developer, or what kind of retail and residential? Retail and residential. So, are you looking at mixed use for this area?

Uh, we, we are not looking at this site for mixed use. Um, we do all types of housing. We do for sale single family, built for rent townhomes, uh, single family homes. Looking at the General plan, it didn't seem like it was appropriate for this area and that this was more of the commercial corridor. It is a great location being next to UVU, but hearing about some of the historical history of the site and some of the other ongoing developments in the city that were capitalizing on more dense multifamily and residential, we didn't feel it was appropriate for this site.

Okay, because it is pretty concentrated in that area already. That street is really heavily concentrated with high density. Um, on your— so thank you for that. I looked for— I saw some little notes of potential retail, um, restaurant people there. Looked great. Hopefully you can get one of them in particular that I love, but, um, I won't mention it here. But, um, let's see. Thank you so much to our Planning Commission for adding tattooing, and thank you for not being interested in that.

Oh, no.

Yeah, of course. And then my last question is, on your site plan, you did concentrate— will you pull that up, Jared, the site plan? So it looks like that bottom part, I'm guessing you don't need all that parking for what these 2 buildings—

Well, no, probably not. Buildings, probably not. All of the parking on the east side is really for the office. We'll need some of that southwest corner for the 2 buildings. To retail buildings, particularly if we have some restaurant users that typically take up some more parking, but it is unlikely we would need all of that parking.

Okay, because I know there's like concerns. I've heard some of the neighbors with that exit, right? If there are a lot of cars, the facility that was there didn't really have a lot of in and out, but with this you would, and it doesn't really line up with the other streets there. So I think Jared had I saw some notation somewhere. Is that something you're okay with? Maybe moving your entrance a little farther, um, or south?

I think we would like to preserve it, um, if possible. I think with our site plan, we do still need to order a traffic study, if that's correct. So I think we'd probably want to wait for a traffic study to come back before we agreed to do that or not. Um, if the traffic study determines that, obviously that's something we would do. But we are— we do have an existing tenant in the office building. We do want to minimize disruption to them as much as possible so it doesn't affect their business. Having to move that location, we'd probably need to relocate a lot of utilities, disrupt the drive aisle. Um, do— there is a lot of topography on the site, so there would probably be a lot of grading, um, that we would need to do. If we're required, we certainly will. But we want to— we don't want to cause disruptions that aren't necessary.

So I guess my— so right there, that corner, right, is the southwest. That's right next to the neighbors. And I read an email, something back and forth that sounded like you're very interested in working with the neighbors, and I appreciate that. But at this point, you're telling me— I'm guessing all that parking is not going to stay there. You're going to want to put something in that area because I don't think you need all that parking. Did you have anything in mind for that, or?

We don't have anything in mind for that yet. I think it's really going to be dependent on the uses. Right now, in the western building, we have 2 restaurants planned there, and then a veterinarian that's planned in the eastern building. We've had a couple conversations with a restaurant for that eastern building too, that they might need to grow that building. Depending on square footage and how many restaurants we have, it really could Require all that parking. So I can't give you a firm answer, but if that becomes excess kind of dead parking, I think that's something we could look at in the future.

Okay. And then just, you know, I know at one point for this particular property, 5, 6 years ago, I saw something that there was a possibility of a Longhorn Steakhouse, and I just want to put that out there as a wonderful option if you ever think of that. That would be good too. We have an ongoing Duran Duran joke going tonight, so I'm sorry.

No, you're totally fine. Um, yeah, we actually have talked to Longhorn about this project. We were going back and forth with them for a while. Um, I don't know if anything came of it, but I did hear they were looking somewhere else in the city that had a little more, um, anchoring uses that they would want to be close to. So, okay, they're— I think they did pass on this site, but we tried to get them here.

So, thank you. All right, council. Okay, Councilmember Meekum.

I, you know, I had the same question about parking that seems for the size of the retail, it seems like an excessive amount of parking. So I'm guessing by the time we see a site plan, that'll be more refined and we'll have a chance to to examine that in more detail. Can you remind me who is in that office building and how many employees they have there?

Greenix Pest Control. Their employee count, they typically need around 150 to 175 stalls talking to them. Their employee count varies by season. In the summer, they do a lot of door-to-door sales, so there's not quite as many people in office, and then in the winter it picks up a little bit. But their lease goes until 2032, I believe, so they're planning on being there for a while.

Okay. I'll just say that this is kind of a uniquely positioned site, right? It's as you're going up the hill, as you come up University Parkway, it has both opportunities and challenges, right? The opportunity is that it's a pretty unique space. And I think you could do something pretty fun and interesting there. I think the challenge is just that because of the elevation, sometimes it might be hard to see some of that frontage. It looks like you've got it right out there in the front, which probably make that work just fine. But I would just encourage you to recognize that it's, it's a unique kind of a special spot in the city.

Mm-hmm.

And having something kind of special there. There, right, that also meets all of the traffic requirements and other things, I think is appropriate.

Okay, thank you.

Great, thank you. Anybody else? All right, thank you. This is a public hearing, and I'm gonna— if you could go ahead and open that public hearing, if there's anyone who would like to come and speak to this item, you are welcome to come up and do so. Seeing none, go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the city council, right, for discussion. So, council, what, what would you like to do with this application?

Can I— and I apologize, I neglected to make one point for you all related to the development agreement.

Oh, okay.

We have not executed the development agreement. It's ready to go, but Cole needs to sign and we would need to sign. So we would ask you tonight if you would consider continuing until we have that executed, if you're okay. So you can continue to your next hearing and then we'll—

So you rather, rather continue it rather than approving it based on the signed? You'd rather have it all done then? Okay, so, so an appropriate motion would be to continue this Until June 23rd, and we feel like the development agreement is ready to go.

We just need to get it executed.

Okay. Is that something that we can put on the consent calendar on the 23rd? I don't know how with land use.

Yeah, you've had the public hearing, uh, closed the public hearing. So, yeah, I think you could put it on the consent.

All right. How would you feel about that, council, continuing it to the 23rd to have the development agreement signed and then have it on the consent calendar?

Yeah, I think that's fine. If there's any issues with the development agreement, we can pull it off.

Yes, correct. Yep.

Right.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Hall.

Thank you.

All right.

Sounds like I have an idea of what a motion could look like.

I can make a motion. May I move that we continue until June 23rd, this item 10.3?

All right, do we need to put in the motion that it gets put on the consent calendar, or what?

Just goes—

it just gets continued until our next meeting on June 23rd? Yeah, not next meeting, but our meeting on June 23rd. Yeah, thank you, Councilmember Kilpatrick. We have a motion. Is there a second?

I'll second.

All right, thank you, Councilmember Muelstein. Um, any further discussion, council? All right, how do you vote?

Councilmember Muelstein?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, motion carries.

Thank you all.

All right, thank you. Next item on the agenda is our esteemed city manager. And for any information items, we'll turn it over to you, Wren.

Um, just a public thank you to each of you for your support, participation, Time, effort, encouragement, money, space as it relates to the Gold Star Families Memorial and our Freedom Plaza and our Memorial Day event. You know, being in this career for over 19 years, that will just— this last weekend will be a top, top highlight of mine. And it was wonderful to have things kind of come full circle and be reminded of late-night conversations with Brent Taylor and his wife and talking about putting service leadership and sacrificing for others in front of ourselves. And the wonderful events that we had this last weekend just kind of brought that all to the fore and reinforced the importance of those valuable principles. And, and so just thank you so much for being completely all in on, on these just wonderful events and programs and projects.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Right. Thank you. It truly was a wonderful weekend, and Orem's a great city to live in. All right, if you don't have anything else, Bran, we'll go. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.

I move that we adjourn.

Motion and a second. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, we'll see y'all.