City Council · 2026-02-10

And so our first presentation is the North Point Solid Waste Special Service District. And are you Neil?

Yes.

Neil, welcome again. I apologize for my tardiness. All right, um, take whatever time that you— 15, take— you're welcome to take your entire time. I just again apologize for being late.

No problem. Well, I work with Neil.

And then, so I'm on the board of North Point, and in fact, we had a meeting yesterday. He's going to share with you tonight. So Neil manages and has managed the North Point Solid Waste Special Service District for the last 5 and a half years. And he's been doing a fantastic job. We love working with him closely. He looks out for all the communities and their needs that are part of that special service district. And, and he was going to explain to you now some of the progress that we've made recently. And some of the data statistics regarding solid waste. So, I'll leave it at that.

Thank you, Chris. Well, as you can see, the title of my presentation here, Talking Trash, Garbage in Northeastern Connecticut. We love to talk trash. It never gets old. My wife rolls her eyes at me, but I'm still getting good at it. First off, I just have a lot of different statistics for you. This is a graph of the MSW tons. MSW stands for municipal solid waste. So that's going to be the garbage from your homes, from restaurants, businesses, just your typical household type of garbage. You can see in 2020 was our peak year with COVID We stayed open. We took a lot of trash from other counties because they closed down. Last year, we, we had a little bit of a dip. Part of that was due to some road construction on 2000 West. They were widening that canal along there, and I think it slowed people getting in and out of our transfer station, so they decided to go to our competitor in Pleasant Grove. This is our construction and demolition waste. As you can see there, my eyes are bad enough, I can't read the screen, but we had a little bit of dip in construction demolition waste. It seems a little slow this starting of this year, but I think that's just— construction demolition is pretty cyclical, but we still had 136,076 tons of that come through the transfer station. This is everything that's coming through the transfer station, and then our, our total transfer station tons, just slightly less than, um, than last year, 300, almost 329,000 tons of waste going through the transfer station. And this is, uh, all of the member cities that Chris was talking about is Orem up to Lehigh, out to Saratoga Springs. Here is some numbers from This is the curbside waste by the member cities. You can see American Fork. Um, I don't know what happened to my graph. It's not showing all of the numbers up there, but American Fork at 14,600, Cedar Hills 38,000, Island 91,000, Lehigh 33,000, and 49,000, Orem almost 29,000, 12,200. Saratoga, that number is a little bit low because Saratoga is able to direct haul some trash right down to the landfill instead of The cross Pioneer Crossing, then we got the transfer station, then us hauling it back. We just have their trucks direct haul down to Bayview Landfill. And then Vineyard at 3570. That's just the residential trucks picking up the garbage at your homes. This is our 20 to 25 tons by the different types of material that we take in. So clean fill is going to be like clean concrete and stuff. We actually grind it up and make a road base and a drain rock out of it. We took in 14,510 tons. We also take in clean soil that we're going to screen and try to sell as topsoil. So we're not landfilling it. Green waste, we took in 11,086 tons. The green waste, we have a contractor comes in, grinds it up, takes it offsite, composts it, brings some of it back that we sell at the transfer station. Our minimum load fees. So any resident coming in, Instead of having to weigh them in and out, we just charge them the minimum load, but we brought in 22,254 tons of waste just in those small loads. And then our commercial MSW, 50,000 tons, our curbside from all the member cities, 117,280, and our commercial, our C&D waste, 146,000 tons of that. That one populated the rest of the graphs. So you can see our overall MSW between curbside and commercial is pretty close to 50% of what we take through the transfer station. This is just by vehicle type, and it's based on count. So those small loads that are weighed, if it's over what we believe is going to be over that minimum fee, we weigh them in and out.

And we—

this is just by count. So we had 21,838 vehicles come through the transfer station that were weighed on the MSW side. Um, small vehicle, we had just the minimum fee. We had 42,500 vehicles come through the transfer station that were charged a minimum fee. Uh, 13,544 of your residential curbside, obviously those are bigger trucks and they're dumping a lot more waste, so fewer vehicles coming in. And then the roll-off is the big 30, 40-yard roll-off containers that they can go to a construction site. Leave the can on site, filled up, and then bring to the transfer station. We had almost 5,500 of those, and our front loader, the 2, 4, 8-yard dumpsters that just pick it up from the front with some forks and dump it in the truck, 1,648 of those. So, as you can see, 50% of our traffic coming through the transfer station is residents bringing in small loads. And this is our minimum fee loads. The tonnage from those, our MSW was 10,600, C&D 8,500, green waste 3,100, and clean fill 184 tons. And then this is Orem City's history of curbside tons since 2012. We did dip down a little bit. Some of that can just be a matter of timing and the number of days in the year. Also, if it's a dry year and garbage isn't as wet, that can impact total tons, but pretty, pretty I think it's just kind of flattened out for Orem. I don't know if you have a lot of, uh, very much new growth within the city or not, but—

We have a lot.

So that, that would be a factor in that as well. And then Orem pays the green waste for, uh, residents. Uh, last year we had a lot more green waste at 11,845 tons, or in '24, but in '25 Dropped down to 8,958. I think overall we had less green waste. Some of that can be like if you have a heavy winter and it snows a lot, branches fall off. So we get extra green waste that come in from, from those type of events, or if there's a big wind event that can affect the number of tons of green waste coming in as well.

But this isn't curbside because we don't do curbside green waste anymore.

This is correct. So Orem City allows the residents to bring in the green waste and We bill the city for those loans.

Thank you.

And then Orem City coupons. Um, over the years, it's kind of been waning off, but last year there was a bump. And I believe that was probably because we had some residents that came in and said, hey, I got a coupon here from, you know, and we're like, well, that's not, that's not a coupon that's valid. Like, well, it doesn't have an expiration date. You have to honor it. So we talked to the city and say, what do you want us to do? They said, well, let's put up a sign that says all coupons will expire at the end of 2025. So we were taking older coupons, and that's probably why that number bumped up towards the end there. So we shouldn't have that, you know, unknown number of coupons coming through the transfer station anymore.

Why has the coupon use decreased so much since 2014?

That is a great question. I don't know if that is a matter of what the city allows or gives out to people, to residents.

I wonder if it has something to do also with our neighborhood cleanups. We have the dumpsters.

We have different parts of the city that could be—

it goes there instead of—

It was about in 2014, 2015 that we started doing really ramped up spring and fall cleanups. all around the city, and ever since then we've seen this essentially overall going down. We also— we used to just send out a paper coupon, sort of standalone, and since we've made it more a part of our newsletter, it's, I think, more difficult to copy. I think the concern was that perhaps there was like these builders that were accumulating them and using them For commercial purposes rather than the intended use, which is for our residents for residential use.

We're trying to integrate them into our Babo Book program, actually. Yes, it was like 3 of these for 1 Babo Book.

Some of those, those old coupons had the old minimum fee of like $8, which was years ago. Oh my goodness, found these coupons from I don't know how long they've been holding. Now we'll be done with those since we put up that sign, and it's got to be a valid current year coupon.

I'm actually loving that the one positive result of 2020 is that we seem to have cleaned out our junk.

Yes, some extra time. We had to live with it.

We were stuck in our house.

Uh, it's amazing, you know, I talked about those numbers of the, you know, 300,000 tons of trash coming through the transfer station in 1 year. You know, I mean, you would think eventually the trash would go away, right? But that's why I love talking trash, because it doesn't. This is the residential curbside fee history. You can say, see, it stayed pretty flat over the last few years. We have had to increase. Last year we increased in July of '25, and we're anticipating another dollar increase in '26. We recently did a financial model for the Bayview landfill, and that's where all of our MSW goes, is the Bayview landfill down in Alberta. And that financial model shows that we need to bump up our rates a little bit. We started hauling waste, I believe, to Bayview in 2016, and that rate that we've paid as a district was $10.50 a ton. Today it's $11.50 a ton, and in July it's going— likely going up close to another dollar. So, you know, pretty small increases, even though we're bumping up last year and this year, and probably another close to a dollar bump in '27 as well. We're going to try to keep those in July so that it can flow with the city's budgets as well, and not because North Point is on a calendar year. So we'll try to get those increases to the cities within their fiscal year calendars.

Can I speak to that as well?

Yeah.

So Bayview proposed a pretty aggressive rate increase over the next few years, and we pushed back on them, and we requested that they soften that a little bit. So it's going to go up about $1, as suggested here, and we produce around 29,000 tons. So it'll be about $29,000. Is that correct?

For your residential curb side.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's the impact.

So, speaking to our transfer station, if any of you've been over there, you can see we have great air conditioning. When it's windy, the air blows right through it. Our buildings are old. You know, the maintenance on them hasn't been kept up, but our buildings are also such that adding on to them Isn't very feasible. We dug down, looked at the footings, and it was built for just that building alone. Expanding on those buildings isn't very feasible. So we looked at— so currently, well, I guess this doesn't work. So this is our current residential building and our current commercial building. And we looked at expanding onto this one, but because of the footings and everything, we'd have to tear it all down and build it. Trying to do that with a live campus, keeping You know, all of those vehicles that we have coming through would have been very difficult. This over here is our currently where we take our construction demolition waste. And so, we looked at putting the building here and we can put a 70,000 square foot transfer station building here. I'll go to the next page here. So, this is our phasing plan, and we plan on Redoing this entrance here. We stopped using this entrance because of the— there's not enough queuing and traffic would back up on 200 South and 2000 West. So we had built the transfer station over on this other side of the old landfill, and that helped that queuing, gave us a lot more queuing. But to keep traffic flowing, we want to have— well, the best thing for a transfer station is to separate out your commercial traffic from your residential traffic. And so we're going to create this one. Redo this entrance here with 2 automated inbound scales and 1 outbound scale. We already have 1 automated inbound and a manual inbound, and then 1 outbound on the other side. So we'll do that. We have plenty of queuing here with those 2 scales that will keep traffic flowing. We can use this on Saturdays to help get our residents in and out faster. With a bigger building, that'll help as well. So then we'll— what we'll do is we'll relocate our construction demolition up on top of the old landfill temporarily while we do build this, and then we'll bring the traffic through. We'll end up tearing down a building that's right here attached to this building so we can bring traffic through and around while we're constructing this and keep all the traffic away from any of the new construction so we can have a live campus, but yet not really impact the customers that are coming in. Then once this is done, the commercial traffic will come in this way and enter the building on this side. The public will come in this way, enter the building on this side. We'll build a new administration portion on it. And we're also going to have an education room where we get quite a few tours a year. I have a UVU class that comes every year. We'll have a spot where they can stand, look out the windows, and see the transfer station in action. And we can just up our, our ability to educate the public and anybody that is interested in coming to the facility. Then once that's all done, we'll tear down our old residential building and have a concrete pad there, be able to load C&D from this because there's already an elevation difference. It'll help us load C&D. And then you call this a future waste diversion building. We can use that as overflow possibility for maybe offering curbside recycling services to the cities in the future as well. So we don't want to eliminate this tunnel and existing building we already have. We will update that building to make it look better and make sure it's structurally sound. So with that, any questions?

Neil, thanks so much for presenting some very interesting data for us. What do you want us to most remember from your presentation today that might affect oral?

I guess I want everybody to understand the importance District city. It's great. We do our best to help keep the rates as low as possible. We're not in it to make a whole bunch of money. We're here to provide a service for the residents and to do it at a cost that not only works for the city and the residents and, and the district as a whole together. So, even though we have to increase our rates over time, we try to do that as minimal as possible.

So, how long has the transfer station been around?

So, I believe the commercial building was put into operation in 1993. So shortly thereafter, the other building was built as well.

With that in mind, I used to work a little bit more closely with Neil, and I just really appreciated— there were some early discussions, I think, more before when Neil joined, of trying to acquire land elsewhere and build new additional buildings elsewhere. And I think Neil saw quickly that that would not allow us to take advantage of economies of scale and efficient operations. And so I really appreciate him finding a way to be able to respond to a growing population generally amongst the member cities and and do so on the existing facility and keep operations going. You know, it took some creative thinking for us to do that here with our new city center, and I applaud Neil and the Special Service District Board for being creative and thoughtful enough to— and cost-conscious enough to do a similar thing there.

We do own 40 acres. If you know where the animal shelter is, just north of this property here, 40 acres, and it's, uh, with the proximity to I-15 and there being a half interchange that's planned right there at the— that property. Um, Lyndon City doesn't want us to, to build a transfer station on that, but it would also be, um, probably pretty spendy to move everything out there. The nice thing about this site is we have, like I told that, that Concrete up top and the green waste that's on top of the old landfill. We're utilizing that, and building out on that north side would make it even more difficult to utilize that. So this keeps it all concise in the same area. And it also gives us the opportunity to look at the possibility of selling some of that property. We're already in discussions with UDOT to sell portions for the Vineyard Connector, which will also help fund that and help us keep our rates down. As well.

I just had a side note question because I get asked this, and I don't know that it's necessarily your arena, so maybe more directed towards Chris, but people are always wondering, I'm hearing, so how do we dispose of our batteries? How do we dispose of our prescription drugs? Well, how would you respond to that in this presentation?

So batteries, if they're alkaline batteries, those are Pretty, um, pretty tame. The batteries that we're most concerned about are your lithium-ion batteries that are in everything. Um, I believe— I don't think it was last year, but it was 2 years ago when I was presenting, we actually had a big fire going on. Um, Fire Chief, you'll appreciate this. Oh, yeah, well, you'll appreciate it too. You get to respond. So, he's still out there in the new building.

You showed him where the fire was.

A new building, it'll have a much more advanced fire system in the new building. We just had a meeting with Lyndon yesterday about this, and the fire chief there was— he was ready to do some cartwheels because he was so excited about the fire system in that. But lithium-ion batteries are our biggest contributor to our fires. If you've ever taken a lithium-ion battery and put it under pressure or scraped it across the floor, if you ever watch our operation, we're pushing trash with big loaders all day long, and all it takes is for a battery to get underneath that, uh, the bucket on that loader, and we push it and it, it starts a fire. So we, we can handle most of the fires on our own. Just when sometimes when there's, uh, something in the garbage that someone didn't tell us about, uh, it can accelerate much faster. So what we can handle those lithium-ion batteries if we're told about them, we'll take them. And if there's a hoverboard or a scooter, we just need to know about them so we can separate that out from the main trash and we can handle it separately. And that's really the thing that we need to promote amongst all of the residents. As far as prescription drugs, we don't like to handle them. Whenever we do get them, we'll contact the police department to come and get them. I prefer not to handle them because I don't want any temptation for any of my employees to, you know, what can I do with these? Can I sell them? Are these something that are of value? Um, so I don't know if the police department is a, is a best way to go about it. Um, but we do, uh, also take other drop-offs.

Do you want it left in the bottle, or do you just want all the pills just dumped in the bottle?

Usually just bring it in the bottle.

Yeah, I want to know what it is, basically.

It, it just gets incinerated. So yeah, you just come in, there's a, there's a drop box right there, just drop whatever you want, and then And don't put it down the toilet, right, Chris? Preferably not. We detect all kinds of pharmaceuticals in the river systems and so forth too. So it's a good idea not to do that.

I think we've done some little education things in the past, so, but I made note here that maybe we revisit that.

I believe Orem City use— you have a little booklet, is that right? An education booklet and Remember the company that was used?

Waste Management is who we've— they publicize that like once or twice a year where they promote a place where you can drop off like paint, batteries, materials that could be hazardous, even pharmaceuticals and so forth. I think they do it once or twice a year. Sometimes we'll host at our public works site as well for that. So as that becomes available, we'll be aware and push that out to our You partner with the Utah County hazardous household waste event.

So different.

Yeah.

So there used to be events that were held once a year that people could take their household hazardous waste to. Now, South Utah Valley and North Point, on a regular basis, we accept household hazardous waste. So small quantities of, you know, any pesticides, You know, any cleaners, your oils, tires, batteries, paints, we take that year round and we separate that out. It's a pretty large cost to do that, but it's beneficial to us to keep it out of the landfill.

Any other questions? Thank you for coming and talking trash.

You're welcome. Appreciate it. Nice.

Thank you.

First on the agenda as well.

You are welcome. I wish I could take credit for that, but thank you, whoever. All right, next item in our work session is a presentation on our general plan update.

Hey, you're up.

Yes, thank you. And as Jared comes up, uh, he's going to lead us through the discussion of what we've been doing with the general plan. And we also have Madeline. Madeline, why don't you come on up? Also, Madeline is the chair of our planning.

Welcome, Madeline.

And Madeline has really put in a lot of time and effort working with staff, going through the general plan and, and looking at it and going through that. So Jared's going to take it and we're going to go through and talk about what the general plan is and why we're doing this and And some of those things, and we'll just get into it and hopefully have a discussion. And so we intentionally, if there's something that comes to mind and you have a question, please just jump in. We want to be interactive with this and answer the questions that are on your mind.

And please, please do jump in anytime you want. We're like those kids on Glee. We're better when we're loose. So just That's how I feel about it anyway. So let's start out just talking a little bit about general plans and what—

And I feel the same way.

Very much the Rachel Berry of the group.

And then, yes.

So I wanted to just talk a little bit about how the general plan is different than the other land use stuff that you're used to us doing. So when you see the planning division at the council meetings, we're doing zone changes, we're doing tax amendments, et cetera. The general plan is not something you hear about as much, but you'll see it in the reporting. And so I thought it might be good just as a refresher to go through some things. So, general plans, as opposed to zoning, are supposed to provide like a basic framework for the decisions that the city would make about any kind of land use. It should inform your decisions, but it's not what governs your decision. Does that make sense? That's the single most important distinction you should make. Um, that's the basic difference. The zoning is going to govern things. The general plan should inform that zoning. Um, they're high-level concepts. They're not binding. They should be evolving. They're not supposed to be Completely ambiguous. We should have some firm details in there, but not, uh, not to the level that we would for other things. Uh, that bottom picture is Orem in the 1920s, by the way. I think it's a strawberry field. It's in our current general plan. It's in the history section of it. And then up above, you can see this life cycle kind of right here. This is life cycle housing. That's the kind of concept that belongs in the plan. So the general plan will say things like, we want to provide housing for every kind of person that would be a citizen in Orem.

Uh-huh.

When you're a young person, you want to live here. When you're a young family, you want to live here. When you're older and your kids have moved on, you're empty nester, you still want to be able to live here. Now, that doesn't bind anybody in terms of housing policy. It doesn't tell us what we can put where. I think it's just a general concept. It's something to shoot for. Makes sense. The next thing we got to talk about are the requirements for it. So, does the city have to have a general plan? Yes, we do. The short answer is yes. The state code In 1020 now, not 1099-A. We do lots of forms and things, but in, in 1020, in the, in the state code for Utah, we are required as a city to have a general plan. And that there are certain required kinds of things that have to be in there. We call them elements. Usually the general plan, you can think of as a compilation of lots of different chapters that are about different things. And there's kind of an overarching theme, et cetera. But basically, there are these elements. We have to have a land use element. That's usually the biggest and most complicated element in the plan. That's the one that we're currently mired down in all the time at Planning Commission as we try to get things ready to bring to you as the council. We have to have a transportation and traffic circulation element. We have to have a moderate income housing element. And we have to have a water use and preservation element. You might remember that at the end of the year last year, we adopted that water conservation element required. Other things that we can have in the plan, and that we do have, or are anticipating. promoting or proposing in this new plan would be revitalization, redevelopment. Think about new development and redeveloping older sites or areas that need attention. Economics, housing, design, and public services and parks and recreation. Then appendix. We have a pretty healthy appendix right now. We expect, we expect that the new plan will have that appendix as well, because This is a point that we can talk about later too, but a lot of different things become amendments to the general plan or become sort of associated with it, part of it, or appendices to it. So the master transportation plan is referenced in the general plan, and it's also an appendix item there. There could be other studies and things that we'll talk about today that would get added into that appendices as well. And these pictures over here just are from the general plan, examples of these kinds of land use elements. That land use element, that most complicated one, it, uh, we're going to talk about as well. The difference between the general plan and zoning. The land use element has these land use categories, and everything in the city, every property in the city gets put in one of the land use categories. And they, um, they almost camouflage as zoning districts too. You're more familiar with zoning, probably. So something is zoned Uh, R-8, that's our most common single family. We also have a land use category that is single family residential, low density, single family residential, and it looks a lot like R-8, and it'll mimic that on the mapping as well. You'll see that too. But these are the categories, um, the kinds of categories we have: light industrial, regional commercial. And each one of those categories has sort of preferred zones that go with it. So, let's see if we can— well, before we get to that part, I want to just talk about one other thing here. So, again, just to double down on that notion that the general plan is As the broad vision for decision-making. So we want a general plan that tells us kind of what— as we want a general plan that we can use, something that off the shelf, then as land use applications come in, if people want to change things or do new things, we want that general plan to be something that can inform our decision-making as a city. So this was the body as a council when you're looking at what the commission has recommended. So it's useful to the commission when they're looking at what staff's bringing to them from applicants. How do we look at this? Does this go against the things that we're trying to do, or does it help us with the things we're trying to do? Or even alternatively, does it make us think newly about some of the things we've thought in the past about these properties? Uh, they're long-range planning. They're not impositions of development standards. That's the job of the zoning ordinance. Um, they're just advisory documents. They're not legally binding. Um, and they contain these broad elements, this picture at the bottom. So this is just as an example. This is the, um, this is an illustration from Daniel Burnham's Plan for Chicago, 1909. So this is, this is kind of where it all began. This became sort of standard for cities all across America, and it sort of set that pattern. So there are kind of— I'll get them wrong and not remember them all, but there are 6 major areas of focus in Burnham's plan for Chicago. And one of them is he was all about the lakeshore, was improve the waterfront, improve the riverfront, make transportation connections so that basically so that we connect the city to the ring suburbs, suburbs that were growing up at the time, things like that, these broad ideas. And that's still kind of the way we approach general plans. Does that make sense? Whereas across the street, this is Gary's backyard, by the way. You're not allowed to store mackerel or sturgeon or whatever it is they pull out of.

I eat a lot of omega-3s.

Yeah, it's very— it's a very healthy bunch over at the Begin House. So, does that make sense? So, we want to see these kinds of things. Again, it's like that lifecycle housing kind of illustration that comes out of our general plan right now. Just a quick Quick reminder too about how this all works for, um, in relation to the Planning Commission versus City Council. So you'll see in the reports that we put out for different items lots of times, who is, uh, which body is the land use authority. We throw that term around all the time. So for some things, even, um, Gary would be the land use authority for some certain decisions. Very few. I don't think there's a lot, but we have a few that are where Gary would be the land use authority, the decision maker. A lot of things are the Planning Commission's purview for the land as the land use authority. Anything that's administrative in nature, or otherwise it's governed by that ordinance. And bound by the ordinance, the planning commission is likely going to be the land use authority. So it's, it's going to be subdivisions and site plan approvals and the occasional conditional use. That's going to be the planning commission as the land use authority. So they're going to make the decision. But where there are legislative items, when someone is asking to make a change to the zoning map, they're asking to make a change to the text of the zoning ordinance. Those are legislative, and the commission only recommends to the council, and the council is the land use authority. So, those are those times when you have to function in that capacity. And also, there are amendments made to the general plan. If we need to adjust the general plan to fit new zoning that we want to do, the city decided they want to expand some different zone. We want to make the general plan land use authority map, land use map match that zoning. That general plan amendment needs to get a recommendation from the planning commission. Not that Madeline is the entire planning commission. She's the representative. She's my object lesson. Um, It goes from them again to you as the council. You would see that kind of application as well. So you'll see those 3 types of things: map amendments, text amendments, and general plan amendments. Now, to the idea of the general plan update that we're currently in. We have approached this since last year when we started as a kind of a 5-year update. General plans, the thinking is they ought to get a They got to get an update at least every 5 years, or get a good serious look every 5 years. As Madeline has pointed out, we're between 5 and 10 years right now, but we are going to make that 10-year bell so we can say we've made the 5-year update. That's the, that's the deal. So it's not a simple adjustment. Like, in a way, they have— there are adjustments that have to be made. The legislature seems to every year make an adjustment, for example, and require something new for affordable housing. So we'll have to bring some kind of change. To the moderate income housing element, and that'll be an update to the general plan, but it's not a full update. So, in that sense, the whole— the water element is barely last year. Yeah, the water conservation element. Those kind of things, they're updates, but they're not a full look at the whole plan. So it's, it's a comprehensive look at the plan. Um, we're trying to do it. We initially looked at it as AIAI, align. I forget what other things I use for the acronyms. It doesn't matter. It was kind of dumb, and I've admitted. So just, we wanted to make sure that this update aligned the general plan with the city's areas of focus and the goals from the council. We wanted it to provide more objectives and strategies again, to make it more, make it feel more usable and make it more a part of the decisions that should make a more obvious part of the decisions. And we wanted to provide as a part of it also an implementation plan, um, so that it's, it's being looked at all the time. Last item, providing scheduled progress reports and planned updates. So we'd like to go forward with this plan knowing that in the end there's an implementation strategy for it and that there's a schedule of reporting. So if these are the first 3 things that we're doing in the implementation plan, when do we report on those to the Commission and the Council and what progress we've made? When are we doing the next update? Because I'll probably need to start earlier than I think I need to. That makes sense. Any questions?

Yeah.

So in talking about different legislation that comes up, I know there's a bill this year that I'm hoping doesn't happen that would say that sketches, things that are— if it's in the general plan, then you have to approve the— it's automatically approved basically with just a submit of a sketch and not actual permits. Are there ways that you think the general plan needs to change if Something like that, where something like that were to pass, then yes, but it'll be—

we will be in a big boat with a whole bunch of other people.

Yeah.

Because everyone has approached these general plans this way for a long time. They're not binding documents. If they— this legislature does do something like make even aspects of the general plan binding, like a zoning ordinance, we'll have to change the way we approach it. And I think so far it's been floated before too. I think usually it fails because people realize you're getting You're going to get what you ask for, and what we'll all start to do is be much, much smaller with plans. And that kind of defeats the purpose of having one if you can't—

I completely agree with all of that. Yeah, yeah, legislature does.

I hope they continue to, to see one of the things that we do in a general plan is we want it to last more than 5 years. We want it to be a 20-year look at what's happening. In aspects of the general plan may be fine 20 years from today, but to do it tomorrow immediately doesn't make sense. There's, there's kind of a phasing aspect to how you would implement that plan in the long run. So if that did happen, we would really need to rethink how we do the general plan and maybe make that phasing aspect. much more explicit, because so often you don't want to do D before you do A, B, and C.

And that comes to the point of you have to have the right infrastructure in place to allow things to happen, develop from a development standpoint. One thing I really liked, and maybe you didn't know you did this, Jared, but I liked how you submitted or substituted the word strategy for plan. Because I think we hear that word plan, and it does sound like binding. So, you know, this is our strategy, and that strategy will change based on what happens around us, what happens inside our city, all of these things.

Right.

We have to be able to adjust.

Can you go— I think it's back one slide. Yes, I'm going to go into the weeds for a minute, like, like the people in the Super Bowl that were in the— moving around. So did Did the city council give this planning commission that land use authority, or did the state? Because it used to be that city councils would delegate authority to— I don't know if that's still the case.

A while ago, the state code changed and made planning commissions the authority for subdivisions, whether we wanted them to be or not.

Okay.

City councils for a long time had held on to things like subdivision. They'd let go of conditional uses first, and our site plans first, and then conditional uses, and eventually Uh, the state said Planning Commission is the land use authority for subdivisions. So that's just how it is now.

Okay. All right.

Thank you.

And just to clarify, that's administrative decisions versus legislative, correct? Say it that way. People kind of understand a little better.

Right. And that's— they view the code— the state code views subdivision as an administrative decision. If they meet the standards that we have for different kinds of subdivisions and zones, they have to be approved. Whereas legislatively, you can decide whether you feel like doing it or not. You should have a plan that governs that, or at least informs it. But sometimes it doesn't make sense because of order of operations. It's the only thing I remember from math class, by the way. I don't know how to do it with math, but I get how it works with land use.

All the failed mathematicians are planners, apparently.

You can do it, or geologists, or architects.

And that's an important distinction for, I think, the public to remember. Is the Planning Commission deals with 2 main categories of administrative. And when it's an administrative item, it means the laws are in place. And they're just following the law, and sometimes Planning Commission will approve a project that residents don't like, and even Planning Commission members don't. They have to do it because it complies with law. The discretion they have to approve or deny a project is very limited, very narrow. Whereas a legislative item, ultimately, the council is the land use authority on those legislative items, and you have broad discretion to decide, should we move property? Is it the right timing? Do we have the infrastructure in place to be able to handle those things? And we're hoping that the general plan can actually become a very useful tool for you. And implementing the strategy that we have for the benefit of the residents.

One of the things we've talked a lot about in trying to draft it and talking through things is getting away from a lot of the, like, planner jargon and trying to make it easy and accessible to read so that it's useful for y'all. It's useful for us, and the public even read it. And, but it's useful enough for staff. That's one of the questions I keep asking back. What do you guys need?

What—

how would this be useful for you? What are you lacking as we talk through some of these elements?

Perfect.

Yeah, but, but if we don't have some jargon in it, people will realize that maybe it's not that hard and you don't need it.

So we—

so you want to keep some element of jargon instead of math?

All the way back to Kathleen's point about the legislature, if they change that, It fundamentally changes the way we approach that. And I think that's kept them from making that change so far, but you never know.

Do you have plans for what that looks like and how you would change that?

I would beg for time. I would have to start to look a lot more, at least aspects of whatever they changed, would have to start to look a lot more like zoning code. Because, like Gary was explaining, you're stuck with that, at least much more narrowly than you are with the plan. So it limits how you can, how far forward you can I advocate for things to the legislature, knowing this is helpful. So, yeah, no, that's great. I appreciate that. It's a good comment.

Could I ask Madeline a question? I know you've been involved in this for a while. Could you just share some reflections on how you see the state of our general plan right now and where you think we need to make changes and where we need to go?

So, in the short, our general plan's out of date.

Right.

It was done probably concurrently with the State Street Master Plan. So a lot of what's in there, a good section of it is State Street Master Plan related things and languages and references to it. So in that aspect, there's a whole chunk of it that isn't even law right now in our city. So we need— that definitely is one area that we have to work on. Some of the sections are more useful than others, just kind of over time as things have changed. And I'll be honest, I hadn't actually read the general plan. Until a year ago. So I was 3 years into my time before I'd actually read the general plan, and it was kind of interesting.

I'm gonna make a note of that.

I went a whole—

you go ahead.

And then I've spent nothing but reading it for the last year. So in that aspect, it's well, well overdue. And again, I go back to kind of what I was saying is trying to turn it into a document that's actually Not just a whole bunch of text explaining things. One of my favorite things is that you get into the definitions he was talking about, about low density, medium density, and high density residential, and you see the breakdown as it goes to our zoning code. And each one, there's the same thing in each of those levels, which doesn't make any sense that you would put the same density across all of those when they're different, right? So it's a lot of those kind of things, really just making it and kind of really looking to the future and really saying, what do we need? What are we missing? There are a lot of things missing from it. That as we've gone through and said, oh, well, what about these kinds of things? And how do we develop? I mean, trees are important to us. How do we integrate that more fully? There isn't anything other than maybe one sentence about trees. So it's kind of bringing in Various future goals and really trying to beef it up to reflect the Orem we really want to see, not just what it was.

I appreciate, because I've watched some of your deliberations and, um, the last 4 years, 5 years, you know, we've just really— it has been— we've had to default to common sense because our general plan has not made sense. If I can say it that way. Not the whole thing, but, you know, some of it. So it has been quite rewarding to see how you guys, all of our staff and the Planning Commission, have just really dug down into it to have it make sense.

And we've gotten into the weeds. I'm not gonna lie, we've probably wandered way into y'all's territory a few times, but that's also been good to stop and say, let's put this on a list. Obviously, something needs to be discussed here because we're seeing these, or here's some ideas that we're generating that hopefully will come back to y'all and you'll be like, oh, well, maybe that's a good economic driver on this part of State Street or whatever. But it's been really quite informative to see the potential in our discussions too.

Well, let me just quickly go through a couple. These are some key priorities. I mentioned that one of the things we wanted to do was align it with city areas of focus. 3 of them really stood out through the areas of focus: safe and livable neighborhoods, thriving and balanced business environments, and dependable infrastructure. You mentioned the infrastructure needs to catch up in some areas, and we'll talk about that again coming right up here. There's areas of Orem that have enough existing infrastructure to do whatever we want to do, and there's areas that we have a lot of questions about infrastructure and that we need to work on that. Safe and livable neighborhoods, we have some underlying approaches to that. Um, that we don't really need to go into here necessarily, but if you have interest in any of those things, we're always ready to talk about it. At least I wanted you to see these kinds of things. Promote approaches for homeowner occupancy for balanced mix of housing options, preserve character of neighborhoods, make sure that updates to the general plan and the housing element happen, um, and that they plan for the development that we plan for the development of part of downtown to enhance community life. Because, and some of these others as well, opportunities for small businesses located in Orem, explore opportunities for incubator spaces. Because there are, there are all these other plans and efforts underway that, that sort of tie into those things. For example, we keep talking about housing and, and the, uh, that element of the land use, that part of the land use element. We don't have a good handle on what kind of housing stock we have right now. There's housing data in the general plan currently, but it's outdated. One of the things we'd like to do Is, um, look at a housing study, a comprehensive housing study of the city to know exactly where we are, kind of housing we have, what kind of housing we might be missing, and where that's missing from. So that can tell us where that housing is missing and where we might be able to provide it. Uh, in what ways we can do it without disrupting what's already happening well, what's already going well for housing in the city, that kind of thing. So this is a list of things that we are doing and things that we feel like we need to do as we've looked at the general plan, just to Run down the list and see if any of these are interesting to you. If you ever want to talk about them, we can, we can talk. Heart of Downtown, you're all familiar with. And I neglected to put in the extra capital A there that makes it special looking. I apologize for that. Don't sell Jasmine. I forgot to do the Active Transportation Master Plan. The ATP is underway right now, and we need to finish that. That's an integral part of, of, of the new thinking of the city, the connection to these trails and the ability for people to get around without their cars benefits everybody. Even if you never— even if you never sit on a bike or walk from a bus stop anywhere, it doesn't matter. Every time somebody else can saves problems with traffic and problems with congestion, et cetera. So, we really want to make that a push and get that finished. We do want a comprehensive housing study. The southwest area of Orem where there's lacking infrastructure, and we don't have— I have some maps to show you. We have a general plan and use categories for all of that area, but they don't necessarily make a lot of sense. We want to study that area better and create a small area plan for it. Um, border plans are probably the same kind of thing. Uh, we've looked at and identified needs for Geneva Road and the north section of State Street, probably other sections of State Street as well. Um, station area plans, we just adopted the station area for the Frontrunner station area plan. That should be— that's part of the general plan now. And then again, it starts that clock ticking. When do we update that? We need to make sure we kind of schedule that out and we're available and working on those things as they go, because you don't want to let them sit static too long. And how do we implement? Do we start looking at the implementation of that small area or that stationary plan and take it in small chunks? There are neighborhood plans throughout Orem. Every inch of Orem is covered by a neighborhood plan as well. We've not done a great job, at least in the recent past, of integrating those plans into our analysis of different applications that come in. They're good plans. They need to be updated. And it wouldn't, it wouldn't have to be a total redo. We could just make those updates and start integrating those. We think we should do that. Geneva Road needs a corridor plan. State Street needs a corridor plan. I already said that. I probably said that twice, didn't I?

Yeah.

I just wanted extra things on the list to make it look more impressive than it was. And then University Parkway, also the corridor plan, and then neighborhood nodes. That's a different idea we've been talking about with the commission. There are— are there areas where we can, at least to some degree, decentralize some of the services that people use, community services, even commercial services, out away from just the State Street corridor or University Parkway or wherever it might be to reduce the time and effort that people have to take to get some simple services? Again, any of those trips we can shorten. Decentralization is, is one of those things that can help where it's done correctly. It's one of those order of operations ideas. You can't just say we're not going to have a central business district anymore. It would be mayhem. State Street is a natural business corridor. University Park is a natural business corridor. But outside of them, at least not too far outside of them, you could have smaller nodes that might make sense, and we could identify those first and then plan for them. So, one of the things, just to come full circle to what you do with the general plan and what its point is, one of the things the general plan would do is identify or tell us we should study where those kinds of neighborhood nodes might be appropriate. Okay, then once we've identified where they might work, then we can start to look at whether they would work and which ones— some of them will fall off the map and not work anymore. And those ideas, but the general plan won't tell you all about them yet. That would be a small area plan around that little node itself. But then that small area plan gets sucked back into the general plan as amendment. So everything winds up back on this shelf with us. That's why this list has to be maintained all the time.

Goals.

That brings us to a couple of the— couple of the goals we have are always to do things like— and before we talk about Southwest Durham, a couple of the goals that we have are always to support things that are happening that aren't necessarily ours. For example, That active transportation plan intersects a lot with— there's a great parks and rec plan for trails, and we want to support that and make sure that we're not missing aspects of that plan when we're looking at projects and applications that come in. We don't want to miss that. That parks and rec plan would inform— that trails plan would inform. I want to make sure that the ATP plan gets in so we can inform that as well. So we want to support the planning that's already happened from other departments as well. It's a great—

it's a great Madeline loves it.

She talks about it. So, Southwest Orem, again, this area. So this is just to give you an idea. And so we're full circle back to the difference in the general plan and the zoning ordinance and the other things that we do. This is just the aerial photo of Southwest Orem. There's this, this floating notion of what it is and what it isn't. So I've just put up an area and there'll be disagreements about how far north we go for Southwest Orem, whether any of it belongs across the freeway or not. Southwest Durham in general. That's the aerial. That is the land use map of the general plan. And that's the zoning map. So, you'll see in here, and I don't have a version of this that lets you kind of see the underlying aerial like you can with the zoning. This section right here, low density residential southwest. Uh, there's not really a lot of verbiage to support what that means. So we need to relook at that. It was a concept that kind of got started, but then dropped. Rural density, residential, professional services, these categories. CC, this is a good one. CC is community commercial. On the zoning map, it's not there. But if this were zoned C-1, it would say C-1 and be red also. So they can be really confusing, these 2 maps. But just in general, you want to be aware of which one you're looking at. So in a staff presentation or in a staff report, we'll always label that map. So check the little sublisting and see if you're looking at zoning or land use map, because they can be different. They'll look very similar. It's almost like we do it on purpose to try to confuse everyone.

I'm trying to think of different names for things, and they just sound ridiculous.

So stuck with what we've got. So this is this area. And again, we don't have— there's some infrastructure questions here, so we can't really answer. I don't think we're equipped to answer what we necessarily want to change about the land use map yet, or really accurately until we've done some more, some more work with public works and engineering about the infrastructure there. And as that, as that comes forward and we start to make final decisions there, we can really inform that general plan. But at the same time, or the zoning rather, but the general plan is what would help us make decisions about that infrastructure.

Sorry.

So I'm saying it in reverse.

I apologize.

The plan helps us say, well, this area might be suited for these types of things, but do we have infrastructure for it? If the answer is no, then we have to think about how we provide that. And then time that with the zoning changes that would match up this zoning map to that land use map. If that's the case, I just throw it—

as you see in the colored map there, there are areas that don't have colors on them. That's actually unincorporated county. So there's some areas of the city, and right along the freeway, a big strip in there that's actually not Orange City, it's Utah County.

So you can do anything you want there. It doesn't bother me.

Listen to him.

Ask me what you can do there. I don't care. Um, but yeah, it's good. That's a good point. There's a couple other little— and there's this little spot There are little spots like that around. Um, we should have— if they're within our annexation areas, we should identify actually on the new maps, we should identify what we would general plan them for. Not necessarily zoning, but at least the land use, so it could inform zoning. If you do annex it, you have to give it a zone when you annex it, and something should tell you what that ought to be. That's a perfect example of the general plan and why it's important.

That's how the OS originally came, because I was on the council when, when we would meet regularly with Provo to hash out the annexation policy for this area. And that's why the open OS was created, because the infrastructure wasn't in place. But we knew that 20 years or whatever, many years down the road, that we just would have these other uses, but we just weren't ready for them yet.

What's really shocking about that is how fast 20 years goes, right?

It's—

that's what's always surprising to me is I make— I map things and I'm looking at them 20 years later, and I'm like, oh, it's time to, it's time to do it. And the holding, the time of the holding pattern is over. Um, and we're, we're still here. But yeah, OS5 was, is all over this, this west-southwest Orem area because of that. That makes sense.

Thank you.

Um, I'm holding—

Yeah, I did not— I didn't pay attention to the clock when we started, so I'm kind of uncertain of where we are. But at one point, I wanted to put Madeline on the spot. And as the chair, and she's just been reelected to be chair again, just kind of maybe outline your view of the direction of the Planning Commission, what we're doing, or your role in general on the Planning Commission, and what, if anything, you would need from the council.

Like, what is my role as chair? Or the role of the Planning Commission? Um, I think one of the biggest things we need is more open discussion about general principles so we have a better understanding of what y'all are interested in, especially as we work through this process. Now that you— just the general goals, like what, what future do you all see? We kind of flounder sometimes. We're making such micro decisions often. And I think that's one of the biggest problems we've really had is that every one of our decisions, we're looking at this little piece of land and we have this little piece of information. But how does that fit into the larger goal of what's going on? I feel like so many decisions we've made have been very reactive, for lack of a better word, because that's it. That's just like, okay, somebody comes in and says this. Well, let's switch it. Let's control the narrative a little bit. And getting to that point, which is, I think, where the general plan really fits in and helping us, is that if we can establish that. You know, I think we'd have a lot more direction. There is legal balances between who can say what on specific things before us, but in general discussion and having more open opportunities to meet with you all.

And one of the things I think for the council that would be helpful to think about is, as you well know, the Planning Commission, we have limited time, money, resources, people. So what's most important to us to focus on? And we've been talking, we had a good discussion with the Planning Commission the other night about ultimately recommending to the council things that we think should be done and trying to prioritize in a way how we do that. And so to be thinking about what you would believe would be the most valuable thing in my own life. If I make New Year's resolutions, I'm doing well if I can do one for the year, because any more than that, I can lose focus. We can't work on— you saw that big laundry list of plans. Well, there's a whole bunch of other issues. You know, we're working on heights and grading issues. You know, we've all talked about that. The zoning code describes the box and somebody built the box. And, and how do we— so that's something that we're working on, but we don't have the bandwidth to work on 20 different issues like that. You know, we hear about, oh, you name it. Food trucks is another one we'll hear about. We hear about, oh, really focus on the parkway, focus on affordable housing. And so since we can't do it all, Not that we're asking for something today, but if in your mind you can start prioritizing what you think would be the most important things for us to take our limited resources and really dive into those, that would be very helpful because we'll be— go ahead.

Yeah, and to see us that way, to see us as a resource for you all on land use and planning. You guys have to deal with finance. You have to deal with summer. Or a pest, sorry. You have to deal with all these other things, and really all we're focused on is planning. And if, you know, if we can build that trust, you're worried about food trucks and we do all the research and we come back and say, we think this is what's best for Orem. Obviously, there's dialogue. Obviously, there's room, but knowing that we're a resource for you as well.

I'll depend on you and the rest of the commissioners to do that research and to make that recommendation. That would be really important to me.

That's probably it.

Great.

Do you have anything more?

No, I did, but this discussion reminded me of what my other letters in that acronym AIAI were. And I'm just going to reiterate that you don't care. They weren't any better.

Can I add one ask? I don't know if the council is in agreement with this too, but I would, as we're reviewing this particular area of Orem, I would love to have a focus group. I would love to have a citizen group, whatever you want to call it, for this area to help with staff, staff explaining what we can do, them giving feedback. I feel like this area needs to be involved. Thank you.

Yeah, for like, as we look at an area plan for it.

And I would even advocate, I know I wasn't there for the discussion about the going across the freeway too. I think involving the neighborhood commission chairs that we have here, as well as other citizens involved, because this area, Southwest Orem, has, I believe, has had so many impacts because of the university, because of the open space, just Where it is in Orem and all the different— it's like a convergence of uses and impacts. And I think it's really important to include as much as is reasonably possible to be part of that plan.

Yeah, absolutely. Those are both great comments. Thank you, guys.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Madeline, thank you for yours and the other commissioners' service.

Thanks, Madeline.

One of us too.

All right, next on the agenda— did you all wear your jackets? You know, your jackets? Oh, your Traffic Tiger Team report. Mr. Shirkey.

Well, Traffic Tiger Team, thanks for the privilege to be here tonight before you. We're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that have happened in the last 4 and a half years. Last presentation we gave on this was in December of '23. And so we've had a couple years of updates. We'll be refreshing this and share that with you. You might ask, why do we call it the Traffic Tiger Team? Some of you may know a little bit about the history of the term Tiger Team. I just wanted to review that with you. In case maybe you didn't know, but it's, it's a team that's been used over the years. I think a lot in the military for creating a— it's not about wildlife conservation, just so you know. It's about high-intensity problem solving, and it's usually a team of individuals that are experts in different areas of responsibility. Like in Orem, our Traffic Tiger Team is represented by experts from our traffic operations group. transportation engineer, city engineer, police chief, or his fire chief, or his designee, and city manager's office. And it's a lot of the decisions and discussions we make get to be fairly political. We try to keep a very objective mindset as we review any requests that we might have. The term TIGER actually originated with the military, was popularized by NASA. They said it referred to a group of predatory experts who can turn down the root cause, or can hunt down the root cause of a complex issue. Not to say that we're, you know, the ultimate experts in this, but this is what a tiger team does. So, for tech or IT, you might, for example, we might pull together a team of experts that would look at patching a major security vulnerability or breach and look for a fix to a system-wide crash. In aerospace, NASA used the tiger team to bring the astronauts back from the Apollo 3 mission that they had to abandon and abort, that went around the moon and came back. In business, you might have a tiger team to manage a sudden PR crisis, to facilitate a rapid merger in a business. And cybersecurity, if Steven were here, but we have Carlo here to conduct exercises where experts try to hack into their own systems to see if there's any vulnerabilities where they might find gaps and so forth. So some of the characteristics I mentioned are that it's cross-functional. So we have many departments involved. We have police, we have fire, city manager's office, we have public works. Within community development, we have planning and engineering that's also engaged in that quite heavily. It's time-bound, so it's constrained. Typically, you form a We're not using it this way, but typically you would form a Tiger Team to look at a particular issue that's, that's at the forefront of an organization that needs to be addressed and evaluated expeditiously and so forth with some different expert eyes that are looking at that. A Tiger Team is called together basically when a product is failing, or when there's a security breach, or when there's a particular issue. We kind of use the tiger team a little more loosely in our organization. We look at a variety of issues. We get together every 2 weeks, and it's not just the one and done, or we're getting together a few times a year, but we are actually convening every 2 weeks with a group of individuals with the city that I'll identify here. So, the good— and there's pros and cons to this— the good is that I think they're pretty effective at breaking down and Breaking through the analysis paralysis that can occur, can occur. You can kind of quickly get to solving problems that have stumped maybe— that is, they kind of— Normal chain of command, and they can sometimes ruffle feathers within the organization. I don't think that's really happening here necessarily, but as mentioned, we have these departments or divisions explicitly that are involved: the City Manager's Department, Public Works Department, Engineering Division, Planning Division in Community Services has also been engaged. Police Department and Fire Department, these are the key members of that. So we have Bren and Ryan that are engaged and they give us some direction. Those that are underlined here are those that really participate every— on a 2-week basis. So Chief Robinson will designate somebody. So in this case, it's Blake Fenn, our police lieutenant. I hope I have his title correct.

Yes.

Mark Sanderson would designate Derek Spencer. So we have fire engaged in this as well. I didn't mention them earlier. Tyler Pace here, who's involved as the assistant public works director. He manages Taylor Forbush, who's our traffic operations engineer. And traffic operations, you might ask, what's the difference between a traffic operations engineer and a transportation engineer? Traffic operations gets into the nuts and bolts of the flow of traffic and the safety of the conveyance of traffic throughout the community, whether it's striping, Or signage or signals or streetlights. All of that are the operations or the traffic flow within the city, making sure that things are flowing safely and effectively. Transportation engineer would be more along the lines of studies and evaluation of, or design of geometric roadways or roundabouts and things like that. Typically, that's what a transportation engineer would do. And then we also have in Public Works Bill Peterson, who's our streets manager. He's been heavily engaged with our transportation utility fee evaluation, as well as Taylor and Tyler Taggart and John Dorney. So Taggart is our city engineer, and then John Dorney is our transportation engineer in engineering. So, um, I love getting together with, with these great employees every 2 weeks and over a lot of the issues repetitively, but most of them we've tried to process through, and we're going to kind of tell you about some of the things that we have processed and accomplished. So this group's been engaged for about 4 and a half years, and I would say that we have— we've had some form of this Tiger Team, Traffic Tiger Team, going back to 2005 and even further than that. I've been in meetings with Ed Gifford, the former city engineer, and I was the transportation engineer. We would meet with a representative from PD. It might have been a holdaway, I think, as I recall over the years, and then others that That have been engaged. So we had some form of it over time to kind of implement and engage a variety of people in a variety of disciplines. This is generally what I'm observing is the request breakdown from the public is about— it's about 65% of all of our requests are coming directly from the public. The city council will also obtain a good portion of those and filter them and give them to us as well. staff, and then others and other organizations such as Lyndon Provo or Alpine School District, which— who we meet with every, every month, and we review traffic concerns and safety plans for schools, elementary schools, and so forth, for safe routes to school. We're directly engaged with them on a regular basis in addition to the Tiger Team. In the last 4 and a half years, we've had a total of 181 cases altogether.

170.

170 of those have been resolved. I'll say, when I say resolved, I will say it doesn't mean that we've done what the people wanted us to do. It means that we've looked at everything, we've done what we could do, and where we can't do something, then we've communicated back to them and that made them aware of the reasons why we aren't doing what they would like us to do. So resolved, just keep that in mind. So that's 94% of everything that we've received is, uh, is been resolved by that definition. There are 11 active cases, which represents about 6% of that. This is a breakdown of the different categories of requests. I will admit some of these are somewhat overlapping. We tried to classify them the best way we could to kind of give you a gauge, give us a gauge, and you as well, as to what the citizens are concerned about, what you might be concerned about, and what others are concerned about as we've received that information. So, A lot of the times we'll get information in the form of an email, phone call, or some other communication that comes through the city manager's office or directly from city council members. We plug those in directly into our database to ensure that we're not missing anything. And if we do miss something, then we're made aware of that quite quickly, I think, by those that are concerned. Yes, please.

Do you want us to direct people to the, the Connect, and then does it go to the traffic team, or is this something that you want to come directly to traffic team?

Ideally, we would like to have everything run through Connect, and then it's documented there. And then if we forget something or we fail to respond or whatever, we can clearly see, well, that was here and we missed that. So it gives us— it holds us a little more accountable. Of course, we want to make sure we don't miss anything, and it's documented as well. So I think that's the best method or way to do that.

Thank you.

We don't turn away any phone call or email either. So we'll process anything that we get, but Connect is the preferred method. So, of all of these, the top 3 categories of traffic calming, traffic safety, traffic movement. Traffic movement is the efficient flow of traffic, whether or not we have street signs or, excuse me, like stop signs or a roundabout or a signal. How efficiently are we moving traffic through the system? That's kind of that category. Safety can include many different things from vehicle to pedestrian safety. But if we get a request specifically about bike lanes or routes or multi-use paths, then we'll plug them into that category. Of course, there could be some overlapping concern with traffic safety there, or the movement of traffic that overlaps that. But again, there's some overlapping, but we try to parse them out as best we can. Pedestrian crossings, street lighting, parking, and then some— there's some administrative requests that we have as well. So the top 3 are traffic safety is number 1, pedestrian crossings is number 2, traffic movement, safe traffic movements is number 3. So 29%, 21%, and about 17% there.

And where do you put safe routes? Pedestrian crossings, or—

That's— what was it?

Where do you put the school?

Oh, the school safe routes.

It would—

well, it kind of depends if it's, if it's a safe route getting to school without a crossing, then we would put it under traffic safety. So that could be pedestrian movements moving safely. So traffic is inclusive of bikes, walking, motorized vehicles. If it has to do with crossing, like a school crosswalk and a crossing guard, or a location where we— they're requesting a rectangular rapid flashing beacon or a hawk signal or something like that. Then we would put that under pedestrian crossings there. Again, there's some— there is some overlap, but we have notes on every single one of these, so you can clearly see if it's school related. We can query that as well. So, in principle, we look at what's called the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. That is what you would call the Bible for traffic engineering. Okay, we refer to that document regularly. This is what we use to evaluate whether a yield sign is warranted, where a stop sign is warranted, where it's a 2-way stop, a 4-way stop, whether traffic signal is warranted, where you might need a protected crossing with lights. And so, for their different warrants that are based on the results of empirical data that's collected through studies that we perform. And so we lean on that document. Heavily, and we, like I said at the beginning, we're trying to be as objective as possible and eliminate any subjective ideas or opinions and try to lean on that specifically. The city council has adopted that as the guiding document for all things traffic and traffic control devices. It's a standard document that is utilized throughout the nation. Therefore, we have standards that will go from state to state typically. You might see some things when you visit another state where you're like, that's strange. I don't, I don't remember seeing that in Utah or wherever. I've never seen that before. So there might be some exceptions that are out there, but it might cause you a little bit of confusion originally when you first see it for the first time. That's what we're trying to prevent from happening. There's a parallel guiding principle with, like, building, building safety. I think the city's adopted the International Building Code. That's right, Gary, right? That's what it's called. Used to be called the Uniform Building Code, maybe not the International Building Code. That's their Bible for building safety. You've adopted that as a city council. They implement that as your vision to implement that, and they implement the guiding principles and so forth administratively to make sure that we're following those. Likewise, with police or fire, they're following state code or city code and other guiding documents. And so when we are asked sometimes to do certain things, you might get feedback that suggests that we're not listening. Or maybe we're not doing what they want them to do. What we are doing is we're trying to be objective, and we're following the guidance that we've been given that the city council has adopted under your direction. Much like the police and fire and building and so forth, we follow similar standards and we're beholden to those. So, in a nutshell, the MUTCD, the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, this is the first sentence in this manual. It says the purpose of this document is to establish uniform national criteria for the use of traffic control devices that meet the needs and expectancy of road users on all streets, highways, pedestrian and bicycle facilities, and site roadways open to public travel. I can share that document with you in a PDF.

It's—

yeah, I don't know, it's about 800 pages. So you need to get some rest or sleep tonight.

I have looked through it.

You've seen it.

You know, I've seen it.

I know we've had several council members And mayors and so forth read and review and study that a little bit here and there. So there are other documents that we use as well. So the American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials, we use the guidance of that for geometric road design, for streets, for roundabouts, for intersections, vertical curves, horizontal curves, all of those types of things, cross-sections, widths, and so forth.

Even sprint.

Chris, if I can emphasize, and maybe you could share an example of this, even though the MUTCD does provide framework and guardrails and things that we can't do or shouldn't do to meet these standards, at the same time, it also provides solutions and yeses and informs on what we can do. Rapid flashing beacons, the HAWK signals, the speed tables. There's things that Working with within this framework had gotten us to verifiably confirmed solutions that are truly safe for traffic and move traffic movement within the city.

Yeah, so we have a few examples of that. I think the pedestrian HAWK signal over here is something that we did study. The HAWK, it's a high-activated crosswalk. Pedestrian-activated crosswalk. That's all it is. But the first one we put in was on 12th West at about 700 South as a result of an incident probably 15 years ago. That wasn't around prior to that in Orem. That wasn't— that might have been one of the first ones in the state. So, although these are federal guidelines and administered federally, and then on a state level, and then on a city level, they do, they do enjoy receiving input. From traffic professionals and so forth, and changes are modified on this document on a regular basis. There are addendums to this all the time because there are some ideas, of course, that are really good that aren't incorporated with this. So, if we do, for example, though, put in a 4-way stop and it only warrants a 2-way, we do expose ourselves to liability. So, where there are hard lines, we kind of draw those hard lines where we feel like there are exceptions. we, we lean into those too. We feel like we can.

Would you define that? Because I heard you— I was going to ask about the word warrants, right? I hear you say that. Would you explain that a little bit?

Yeah, so as I recall, Councilwoman Millett, uh, you may have had an incident on 10th North and 8th West. Does that ring a bell?

Correct.

There's a 4-way stop there. And what I don't— maybe we shouldn't go there.

Maybe the police chief wouldn't want to hear about that.

No, no, I know.

Okay.

So if we—

if we—

so the warrant will suggest we'll look at a number of cars in each direction. And if there's a significant amount of delay, if they're equal in a significant delay, they'll warrant a 4-way stop. If it's a heavier movement in one direction than the other, it'll warrant a 2-way stop. That's very general. If we put a 4-way stop where it's not warranted, then what might happen is somebody will drive through it inadvertently because they don't feel comfortable with that, or they did— that caught them off guard.

Sorry, we did, by the way.

I'm sorry, I only offer that because you offered it to me, but it's a good example of this.

It was council.

Oh, sorry, go ahead, go ahead, finish if you want. And then you offered one too on 12th North and 8th West. That used to be the 2-way stop, and that's a 2-way stop.

One of the things I did with this traffic was I was in another state and I saw a sign that they were putting on 2-way stops saying cross traffic does not stop. And so I came back and that's why I looked at it. I looked in there to make sure it was in there. And then I went to, I think, Chris. I went to you and said, is this something we can do?

Sure.

And so that's—

It was 12th North and 8th West.

Yeah, because that's just right over that. That's 12th North and 8th West. That was a 4-way stop, the 4-way, but before it wasn't.

Before, since then, and it was based on your idea and recommendation that we learned there are some areas where it makes sense to do this. Yeah, yeah, they might feel like they don't need to stop, or they're not aware. It's, you know, you might come to an intersection, you might think it's a 4-way, then you pull out, then boom, a car comes through. And so, in those—

on that street is All stop signs, right?

Yeah, for 2 ways. On all 4 ways, it'll say it's a 4-way, or it'll say it's a 2-way too, generally speaking. So, but that adds additional attention if we know that there's a particular challenge for whatever reason that there might be there.

Oran Boulevard and 7th North, and then 4th West and 7th North. over there. See those? Because people just—

it's helpful to see those.

Yes, not too big.

Do you have any other comments or questions? It's such a great idea.

Thanks so much for—

thank you—

making it so interdisciplinary and including the right people.

Thank you. Yeah, it's— it was natural, kind of needed to happen that way because we would often go— the chief over here for police or fire, or we'd go to engineering or It's overlapping. And so Taggart Bowen's here, Tyler Pace here, city engineer and assistant of public works director, who's no longer going to be my assistant public works director, and I think it's official now, but he's going to be the parks and recreation director starting March 14th. And yeah, congratulations there. And then Chief's here as well. I don't know, did I miss anyone on the title?

Yeah, remind me, is this once a week?

2 weeks.

Please.

Has there—

have you noticed an increase in production since you got your jackets? Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

We appreciate that. In fact, I was going to take a picture of a box of cereal that's on my desk that he gave me. It's Tony the Tiger with Frosted Flakes. I haven't eaten it yet, but it is on there. And he gave me that with a— over the Traffic Tiger Team jacket. So I really appreciate that.

And it has nothing to do with Orem High Tigers either.

Nothing at all. Nothing.

Those are the golden—

you want it to—

Traffic Tigers.

I appreciate what you do because I think— I can't speak for the other council members, but I do get a number of concerns conveyed to me by residents and having an objective Multidisciplinary group looking at those, I think, is really, really important.

Do you want to speak to that? You were at the conference, at the city engineer conference. You want to mention what you observed down there? You mentioned it to me. I went to the engineers conference a couple of weeks ago, and one of the presentations he spoke about—

it was really good. It was about residents requesting speed humps.

And crosswalks, 4-way stops, signals, just all the same issues that we go through about all these things. So I think some cities are trying to figure this out, and I think we have a pretty good process here going.

And you basically defined the traffic tiger team without using that term, right? They were trying to do it that way.

And one thing I do need to point out in that same presentation Not all concerns or requests from residents work and make sense. And he talked about one— somebody wanted a stop sign in front of their house, not at an intersection, in front of his house. So just going down the street, people would stop. Now, that's one that a resident may like that and really want that to happen, but there's no way we're doing it.

Thank you.

If I may just, in conclusion, say that I've appreciated this group not only bringing different perspectives, but I think, well, we've had a long history of responding and working together, you know, as a city. I appreciate that this group has gone from being on their heels with these requests to being on the balls of their feet, energetically proactive. And, you know, see that number of cases and the 94% resolved and getting to solutions.

And that's true. You're truly serving the residents. I have so much better feedback now than 4 years ago, right? Because you guys are just symbiotic in what you do.

Well, you were the first one to offer a suggestion, and we implemented that on 12th West and 1400 North with that pedestrian crossing. It took some time. We couldn't get it in right away, and it cost money and whatever, but we coordinated with the, with the school district. They participated with that. We got good feedback, and that was— but it's virtually like that, and engineering design, all that. And then we built that. So—

That was very rewarding because I found out about that issue when I attended a school community council meeting at a school.

That's right.

Yeah.

And we meet with—

That happened? That was so awesome.

Yeah.

We meet with school community councils who have the directive to produce these safe route plans for their children that go to the schools. And most of the schools, just so you know, don't really have one, or it hasn't been updated. And so when we meet with them, that might be a next level or step for us to meet with them and to help them to hone in or develop them and refine them to make them updated and more current.

So.

Just kudos to you guys because you really did find the funding, find, you know, I do appreciate it rapidly, even though it seemed like it took a little while. It was quite quick.

Thank you.

I'm Chris Havlock.

I'm a lieutenant over at the police department. I think I, I know most everybody in here, and I think most everybody knows me as well. Um, I'm here to talk, uh, really quick tonight just about Citizens Academy and give a brief overview what it is, what it offers, uh, what our target goals are with it. might be offered, I guess. A little backstory to just paint a clear picture. Believe it or not, I am 23 and a half years into this awesome career at this point. And my start in law enforcement actually was Citizens Academy. My scoutmaster hired me at the young age of 13 to plant trees and lay sod for him. And I grew that into a career and a business that I owned. And during a downturn in the economy, early 2000s, he was introduced to Citizens Academy, loved it, and the rest is history. So I guess that's another side story that not only are we looking to educate the public that maybe doesn't have an interest in a law enforcement career, but we also offer opportunities for the kids that don't know what they want yet. This next one that we're offering this spring, likely will have 2 high school interns in it that they're interested in a law enforcement career. So it's something that they're able to get some hands-on police experience with. So what it, what it offers is at its core values is an opportunity for public engagement. So oftentimes what law enforcement does is misunderstood. As we do that ourselves, we, we're pretty good at stepping on our own toes at times. A lot of it's we can't talk, we No comment. We can't talk about that. It's under investigation. And so that gets perceived, let's say, incorrectly, but sometimes fairly. And so it provides a forum for citizens and community stakeholders to be educated as how law enforcement operations work firsthand. Citizens Academy, believe it or not, there's a ton of studies and a ton of research that talks about the benefits and the positive aspects of Citizens Academy.

Yes.

I don't think anybody in here would disagree that community support and involvement ebbs and flows. Right now we're seeing civil unrest not only in our country but throughout the world. And so this is an opportunity that we have as that enforcement arm of the law to bring people in, show them what we do, why we do it. I'll be honest with you, I've been involved in teaching police at Police Academy as well, but Systems Academy for years, most of my career. I'm excited to do it here at OREM now. I've never had anybody walk away with a negative experience. If anything, everybody's always said, I didn't understand that. I'm glad I took the time to be able to be part of this. So for us, it's a super awesome opportunity to talk about what we do, why we do it, how we do it. And if anything, people walk away incredibly more understanding, I guess, of the position we've put ourselves in sometimes or find ourselves in. So it's an 8-week course, Wednesday night, 6:30 to 9:30. So it's a time commitment. We try and fit as much as we can in because we realize that going over 8 weeks of material is a commitment for people that attend. It is by invitation only because we try and limit it to 15 or so people. If it gets any bigger than that, then it starts to get lost in translation. Too many people, too many what's going on. So we keep it, uh, fairly small. Um, Orem City stakeholders are encouraged to apply, and, and we vet through that, that, uh, applicant pool and see who would, would most benefit from attending. Um, and when I say stakeholders, that's not, uh, people vested in our community, in our city. So it could be business owners, it could be, um, elected officials, and I, I'm openly welcoming, um, our, our new elected officials to attend, community members. I've been talking to a gentleman on the phone and via email for a better part of a year now. His original communication started with, how do we train our officers on de-escalation? And that kind of set off some red flags in my mind, like, why is this guy calling and asking about de-escalation? And immediately I thought he's had some negative experience with police. And sure enough, that's what what it was rooted in. I've invited him to attend. We'll see how it goes. He may shake his negative perceptions of law enforcement and he may stick with them.

I don't know.

But I guarantee you he will walk away with a different perspective. So that's kind of the broad overview of what Citizens Academy is. It's a great program. Literally have been involved in it 25-ish years now because I went through myself and then it takes a minute to get through the academy and whatnot. So it's something I believe in and I I think it's a great program. So does anybody have any questions about Citizens Academy?

Yes, ma'am.

I just want to encourage those of you who haven't taken it to take it. I, I took it when I was on the City Council. I participated in Orem as an elected official, and then a few years ago I participated in Provo Citizens Academy as a cohort of service providers because the profession I was in, we had a lot of interaction with the same population. And I think having the social workers, those who work with some of the common, some of the same population, I think it was very beneficial. Plus, I was tased. I chose to be tased for 5 seconds, and it deterred me from a life of crime. But I still ran for office. But no, it's wonderful, and I would love to take it again sometime. But Yeah, it was very— it's just the feeling I had when I would walk up to a car pulling over, you've pulled over, or what's the simulator with the shooting, just that the stress, you really have to— it really is very quite powerful.

Yeah.

And understanding, better understanding what you— Go through.

That's exactly what I've seen firsthand, is that it gives people at least a pause to think, uh, maybe there's another side of this I didn't consider.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

How often do you try to run a citizens academy?

Um, the hard part is because it's 8 weeks, um, definitely we like to— fall time is difficult for multiple reasons. You start running into skipping on the back end. You got fall break and hunting season and school starting. So I, I think it would be beneficial to do 2 a year, um, but it just becomes an awful big ask of, of people during that time of year and, and our officers and city staff and everybody that helps put it on too. So that's once a year, but we'd like to do twice.

So thanks.

That's a great idea.

Thank you.

Anything else? Okay, thank you. Awesome. I don't recommend getting tased though. I don't know, do you tase in your academy, your Citizens Academy? Do you tase them?

Yeah, certainly optional.

You don't have to.

It's optional. It was, it was optional there too.

The new—

we'll have to see.

The new ones are— they have a different bite to them. Oh, these are 10s now that are not recommended.

On point.

I don't know if I'm up to that.

HR's going, no. Risk management's like, no.

We already did hot sauce.

Yeah, exactly.

We need some hot sauce.

At least that's over in 5 seconds. That hot sauce lasted—

have our dinner and then—

that sounds great.

But before we grab our dinner, is there a council member who would be willing to volunteer to give us a blessing on the food?

Great, thank you.

Father in heaven, we're grateful for the opportunity we have to meet tonight with the city council and And to discuss the issues of business and order. Please bless us, the Spirit with us. Please bless our dinners tonight to give us strength and energy tonight. In Jesus Christ, amen. Amen.

That was the longest 5 seconds of my entire life. They put the clip in Up here and on my ankles. And then they say we're gonna, you know, they do taser. They just rather—

they didn't hook me with, you know, it's just like this on my head.

It's like, you know, it's just there's a pain.

I've actually done it.

It just makes your whole body just stiffen up. And I fell over, but they helped me. They just picked me up.

Yeah.

And then you get done and I'm just like, I feel like I worked out. workout, I guess.

The morning tase.

No, but I, I don't regret doing it, but I don't—

I'm way—

there's a video. I gotta find the video.

I can probably run myself out just yet. Did he just develop something? Yes.

Is he got all the council members?

Because he—

All right, we're going to go ahead and get started. Um, McKay, thank you for waiting. So we meandered over and got our food. Um, we have a presentation on the software we have with MyORM, MyORM Boards and Commissions training. So turn it over to you. Thank you for coming.

So much, Mayor. Uh, and thank you, Council, for having me. So today, uh, I'd like to give a quick demo on how to use the newer site. Wrote this about a year ago, but we've been making a few tweaks and changes to it as we've been using it as Beta test as we're getting ready to launch MyORM later this year. So I'll be going through signing up for boards and commissions, and I'm also going to give a little bit of demo as to what MyORM is currently looking like. So, for boards and commissions, there's a few ways that you can get to the new site. The easiest and most reliable way is to just go through orm.gov. You can either click on volunteer or go through governments. Many of you have already done this. You've done this before. Clicking on Apply to Serve will then link you to the new site that we've written. It's going to bring you to this page, and somebody's first inclination upon seeing this page might be, ah, I have an account with the city, I pay my utilities with the city. And so they're going to go, they're going to try to sign up with that email and password that they're used to using. And They'll go and they'll say, ah, I'll sign in, and it's gonna say we can't seem to find your account. Something that is important to know about the system is this is a different login method than we've been using for any of our other sites in the city. The idea behind it is that it's going to all be folded into one single sign-on event going forward. So all of our various disparate accounts are going to become one account going forward. So for anybody who has this issue, they haven't signed up for this new account. Sign us up. Which is going to bring them to this little workflow. In the past, we've seen a few people have issues where they fill out their email address, which I'll go ahead and do right now. And then they go on and fill out the rest of the form without validating that this email address is actually a legitimate one. For now, we've disabled the ability for them to do anything else on this page until that email address has been verified. This is going to send an email to the address you've provided.

Okay.

From Microsoft on behalf of the entity, and going to give you a code. If any of you receive any pushback saying, hey, this code hasn't arrived yet, Microsoft says that it can take up to 2 minutes to arrive, so be aware of that. Generally, though, it comes within about 15 seconds. It's pretty quick. Go ahead and type in what I just got. Verify code, and we're in. I'll go ahead and type out a word. You'll notice that as it prompts you to type a password, as you're typing, it will give you a list of things that need to be in the password for a little bit more of a secure password. And if you successfully typed in a password that meets those criteria, that notification will go away. So there you have the name and surname. At this point, the account is created. What it's going to do now is ask for a 2nd level of authentication. This is to provide an additional layer of security so that when somebody logs into MyORAM, No, for sure. There you are. It is a really good level of— You know, you can go ahead and send the date. It gives you the option to also receive a phone call. So, for those that might have trouble finding their text or have trouble reading, a phone call is a valid option to have this code be authenticated and sent to you. The one that I just got in. And now the application is loaded. So the first time anybody comes to MyOrem on this page, right, this is the live site to the citizens of Orem, you're going to get a little welcome modal. This is going to walk them through what the site is, what it does, the reminder to save your login. And as you move through that, it's then going to ask you for a little bit of additional information. For some people in the city, if they already have an account with the city, it's going to go and say, hey, I recognize that your email is in fact in our utility billing system. With a little bit of information that we're going to give to you. Does this look accurate? Is this you? And for all intents and purposes, I do live on 123 Fake Street, and I say, yes, this is me. So I will confirm and continue. If there's ever a mismatch or that information isn't you, there's another workflow that will say, hey, well, this isn't me. I don't want to link my account quite yet. Let me give you a little bit more information. So that'll be things like your Phone number, your birthday, your address, things that we use in other city applications that help us identify who you are. For boards and commissions, now I am into boards and commissions as a citizen of Orem, and I can go and apply to a given commission that I so choose. Compared to the previous site that existed about a year ago, there's no need to fill in other personal information. Because we already have that. We just barely provided it. We know who you are, and now we can link that to an application that can submit to the city. So right now, all that's needed is a description, some type of file upload. I know that there's been some conversation about the requirement for this file upload, which can be edited at the request of the city council. Some acknowledgments, and then you're in. Successfully applied for a board. Now, if I go to my data, this website right now is currently not available to the public. This is an internal-only application. We can closely monitor it and test it as we're developing it. This is the MyORM experience, and this is what that entire signup process is being built towards serving. So you'll go to MyORM in the future, sign in, and it's going to give you a very similar login. Actually, in this case, since I had already signed in with Boards and Commissions, it automatically recognized that, and now I'm logged in using the exact same credentials that I had just barely used to sign up for Boards and Commissions. So this is the experience we're after with this, with this new website way of handling how we interact with citizens, customers of Long City. You have one identity with the city, and that propagates to all of the services that we want to offer you, such as your utilities, which will be the first application that launches when we go live later this year.

Okay.

Any questions?

It's dawning on me that as we start to roll this out and we start to create PR communication materials, send it out to the public to educate them about that, I think we need to take advantage of McKay's voice.

Yes, very soothing.

Here he is.

We can't afford Morgan Freeman.

As long as I'm not putting you to sleep.

No, no, you're not. Your voice is like, you idiot, don't you think? Yours is very comforting and helps us instill confidence in ourselves.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.

Okay, I'm so excited about my aura. I think this is going to make it—

this is a game changer.

I think it's going to be really great.

I just want to clarify if I understand it correctly. So this obviously is internal, but the boards and commissions is now live, correct? Is there anything else that's live besides boards and commissions?

Boards and commissions is the only site right now that is live. This is internal in the sense that nobody in the public can access what you're seeing right now, but as soon as we flip the bit, of course, that will flip.

So what's our timeline for rolling it out to other functions?

So right now, schedule is at the end of April, we're planning on launching this to the public with utility billing. This is also going to include landlord licensing, so the ability for landlords to engage with their properties. After that, we are working to launch this with that, going to work on business licensing. That's something that we have been working and revisiting as various requirements have changed with that. So we'll start work on business licensing here the next month. And so that will launch a month to 2 months after the launch of MyThoroughfare. And then Fitness Center is the next project we're working on. That's going to be a little bit of a more lengthy process as we're working on rewriting all of our systems with that. In conjunction with the Fitness Center, we'll be looking at various court websites. So that's things like traffic school, paying court fines.

Will that be clear to people when they start to make an account? I'm just thinking a little bit about when I log in to apply for my board and I'm forced to go through this system, I will probably be a little grumpy at first. Yes. Seems like a lot, right? And I will recognize that this is the beginning of a brighter future. Just wondering if, as you think about that staged rollout, if there's a way to have a little message as people are starting to create a MyORM account that just helps them understand a little bit.

Yes, absolutely. That's actually something that we've been learning from quite a bit with the launch of the Boards and Commissions website, because we launched it as right now this is a completely separate application. We're running it as its own thing. It's isolated. And while it is connected, right, you see that I just was immediately given access to my forum because it recognized I had logged in with that Microsoft Azure credential. But something we learned about exactly that lesson, that people are signing up for this, they're a little bit frustrated that they're signing up for yet another thing for Power Automate. And so what we've been doing is we've been Reworking that welcome model that when they initially get through the Microsoft stuff that they have to do, they're then met with an explanation of, here's the vision that we have as a city to make your life better. Here's why we're doing it. So that is something that we are actively looking to address in the first moments that they're on one of these websites.

Excellent.

Okay, if you can go back to that mind worm, maybe another simple thing is, uh, When we launch and we've got like utility billing going, and we know that fitness center and park reservations are coming soon, maybe we kind of gray those, gray those out initially and say coming soon.

One of the things that we want to do as part of this is if I click on fitness center right now, it's going to take me to our current site. And so one of the things that It's not reflected in this version. This is something we're working on. There'll be an icon that indicates, hey, when you click on this, you're going to leave this site. It's going to take you to one of our external sites. But a notification saying, hey, the fitness center is up in line to be rewritten next. It's definitely something you want to look at so that we can let the citizens know, hey, there's more coming. This is not a static thing. This is actively working to build a better one.

Back into it, or you just have to go back and log in again.

Like if I go to the fitness center, back to give it—

So I just went to— here, I'll open up the fitness center again. I want to use something with the fitness center as it currently stands, I do have to log in again. My team is currently working on a way to finagle our way around that because we do have a good idea of who you are if you log into BumbleBurn. It's not 100% all the time, but if we have a really good idea, then we want to make that a more seamless process. Right now though, if there is some friction, Direction will be I do have to log in again to this— these disparate systems. As soon as they're rewritten, of course, there won't be any of that.

Any other questions?

Um, McKay, do you mind showing for council members how they see their side of the boards and commissions?

Yes.

How they utilize that.

So for all of you, this applies to beyond just the council members There are other people in the city that do interact with the commissions. commissions-emp.

.gov.

This is the site that you will use to sign into it. So it looks like Teresa is currently logged in on the site from an employee side. It recognized that, so it's logged in as her. That's why we're seeing what's here. Looks very similar. Note that it does say staff up here. This is an indication of a flag saying, hey, this is an internal tool as opposed to the external tool that we have for people to actually apply to the commissions. You see it says apply now. Here it's all the information regarding the tools that you need to serve your boards and commissions most effectively. So this includes the ability to look at these descriptions. For administrators, if you ever need to update these descriptions, that's something that administrators such as Teresa can do, or myself, as well as the ability to look at all of the members that are serving on it and all of the applicants that are there.

So much. Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Okay, right, last but not least, we have a statistical report. Jenica Jones and team, welcome.

All right, thank you, Mayor and Council. We're excited to be here to share everyone's favorite thing, numbers, or at least my favorite thing. So the strategy and innovation team is pretty new to the city, and one of our goals is to help the city better use, understand data. And so the data in this presentation, we're kind of going to go fast and furious, but it primarily comes from census data as well as a program that's called Bracer that partners with other apps that collect voluntary location sharing, like weather navigation, and then uses algorithms and their program models to Estimate how many people are at a given place at a given time. So we can look at visitation throughout the city in terms of businesses, parks, and so we can gather a lot of cool and interesting useful data to plan better for our events and see who is coming and how we can better prepare for that. So with that, I'm going to turn the time over to Bradley, who is an analyst on my team, to dive deep into it.

Thank you very much, and in the interest of time, And understanding that this will be a fire hose of indeed a lot of numbers and data, we are going to cover general population metrics, business landscape, workforce insights, tourism and events, and parks and recreation. Starting with population, the city's population— and this is using census data as well as Placer— that it can vary from 96,000 to 117,000 depending on the time of day. There are about 51,000 employees throughout the city's many businesses that we have here. 31,000 of those commute from outside of Orem. And of the visit counts that we do have, which are 39 million visits that we've had throughout 2025, those came from both those 31,000 employees as well as an additional 3.4 million or so visitors who came into the city, again, throughout the whole entire year.

So employed in the city, not employees of the city.

Employed in the city.

In this category.

Distinction.

Like, we don't have that many.

School visits and visitors. Other reasons.

This census block map shows the change that's occurred in population from 2022 to 2024. You can see that across the board, things have remained relatively the same, and there have been some increases and some decreases as well throughout different neighborhoods. But again, it's remained relatively the same. Switching to business landscape, in 2025, the largest business center that we have here in the city, which is University Place, was the 4th largest by terms of visits of all shopping centers throughout the entire state. So you'll notice there are those other ones that are listed above us. Our largest visitors, as you can see on the screen, include Costco, Trader Joe's, and Al's Sporting Goods. I will point out that those other locations also are larger shopping areas than our own, and their businesses rival ours as well in terms of what's in those areas— Sam's Club, Walmart, Costco, Cinemark, so on. The city, of course, receives access and data or information about the sales tax it receives from each business, and this slide shows the visitation data for several significant tax contributors. We will note that it doesn't include online businesses such as your Amazons, and those individuals or those businesses are often large sales tax contributors, but with what we have of this data visitation, of course, We won't be able to track that. But we'll also note that the largest tax contributors in our city does not always correlate with the most visited businesses when it comes to those brick and mortars. But occasionally there can be a correlation that you can see. This next slide is interesting. It covers retail leakage. To explain what leakage is, in certain situations we might have people who live in the City of Orem But they will go out to a business outside of Orem to conduct their work. So looking at this, when it comes to the categories of leakages that we experiment— experience the most, those are neighborhood centers, convenience stores, fast food restaurants, and groceries. I won't cover all the details that are listed here on the screen, but by way of example, Orem residents probably are going to convenience stores By and large in our city. But we also noticed that there are some residents who are going to the Mavericks that we can find in Vineyard and Provo. It's probably possible, but by no means certain, that those visits might be happening from Orem residents who happen to live closer to the border between these other cities. And so they might just see it as more convenient to go to the Maverick that's down the road rather than another convenience store that's more centrally located in Orem. To move on to workforce insights, we earlier talked about the number of individuals who work in the City of Orem. That data can be split out even further into those who are Orem residents and those who are employees who don't live in Orem. This slide, this next slide shows that The individuals who work and live in the city of Orem doing both those adds up to about 30%, a bit more than that, with these first 2 zip codes being the areas of a large portion of Orem. And then we can see throughout the rest of the county, we have individuals who commute in to come and work in the city of Orem. In the interest of time, we'll skip this, but it basically explains that same story of seeing people who live outside of Orem but work in Orem, how far away they coming from? How far away are they coming? Moving to tourism and events. This data is nice. It shows that we have visitors coming from all over. People love Orem. They love to come from even afar. If you can see this bar chart that we have on the side, a lot of individuals are coming from within a 30-mile distance or so, but we even have people coming from outside. And to talk more about that, We also have overnight visitors that we are able to recognize that in the year of 2025, we even had an increase of people who were visiting and staying overnight with over 432,000 visitors, but staying multiple nights, then adding up to more than a million visits that they spent in 2025. And the bar chart down on the bottom shows where those individuals are largely coming from. And we can see that that includes both in the previous year as well as this current year of— or the year of analysis, 2025. That includes popular locations such as Arizona, other parts of Utah, and Idaho. City events also drew a lot of visitation throughout the year of 2025.

We—

sorry, I misspoke.

This shows the popular attractions that we have in the city, and we'll point out that it shows the visits that they had in 2025. As well as how much that changed from the previous year, 2024. We've also included the past from 2 years ago and 3 years ago. In other words, comparing 2025 to '23 and '22 as well. This is city visitations for events, which again had a lot of popularity in last year. We've, to summarize, included just some of the larger events that people think of when they think of Orem. Orem Fest, the farmers market in the summer, holiday market, and Lights On, as well as our newly instated Taste of Orem event. And this bar chart also shows a change over years for each of those. But to also share more data talking about all of the events that we've had hosted by the city, this table reviews that not with only the numbers that happened in 2025 attending those events, but also the change that that was from 2024. We wanted to take one moment to point out Aurum Fest as a nice use case or case study and point out how we had a total of 97,000 visits that happened in the park during those days, and that there's somewhat of an even split between those who are coming to live in Aurum to go to Aurum Fest, as well as those coming from out of Aurum. And actually, before moving into parks and recreation, I will dive into saying, with the tourism data that we have here, it's helpful for planning our city events, extremely so. We're able to see when there's a spike in event, when it becomes very popular, and plan our staff accordingly. Or we might realize if we have a lot of individuals who are coming from out of town and might not be as familiar with our streets, how we might want to direct traffic so that way they're able to go to the places where they're not familiar. Moving to Parks and Recreation. This first slide is a large overall summary of our parks in 2025. Leave it there for a second for you to internalize it. Let's read off it briefly. 3.7 million visits happening to our parks. With those being a lot of visits happening pretty average throughout all of the parks that we have, people spending a lot of time there and finding popular days on Wednesday and Saturday evenings. We point out here also that all Orem residents live near a park, either by walking or driving. And this is nothing to say— these are of the public parks that exist in the city, nothing to say of other green spaces such as private parks with HOAs or university campuses and such. This is a breakdown, again, another table showing the visitations that we have at each of our respective parks. And the change that that had from the visitations in 2024. Break it down by month. This, I imagine, it seems like a wall of information and it can be a lot, but the color shows how there have been increased visitation in a lot of locations, or the red showing a decrease in visitation. And this is basically to show that In comparison, one month in 2025, how different was visitation in that month back in 2024? It's very interesting because it can be very circumstantial, we'll point out. For example, 2025 in November was very warm compared to 2025— 2024 in November. And so those numbers showed a large increase almost across the board with every park. By comparison, 2026 November might have a lot of snow, which would be lovely. But it might mean fewer people coming that day or that month. And then to break down some of the detail that we can dive into with each park, we wanted to share this as an example for Orem City Center Park. And this shows again where we can see the important visitation and plan accordingly. We are able to use this to understand which parks might be under-visited and how we might want to use activities or events to drive visitation for the people who live around there. Or how we might want to acknowledge that when there's a dip, that might be a better time for park staff to allocate their time to go and do around the park rather than at a time when it's a peak hour. And that's coming to a close. And with that, I do want to summarize in sharing. One, I do want to give an acknowledgment to the management services intern, Whitney Kingsolver, who helped with compiling all of this data and really worked hard to gather it all and present it in a concise manner. Thank you, Whitney. It's really helpful for how we run as a city. It's also helpful for how we can assist and support our local businesses. We're able to utilize visit counts to predict and prepare for future events. We're able to allocate staff time better and work in predictable ways to meet the greatest needs that we can see. And we can help businesses prosper by helping them understand the population that comes to visit the City of Orem. Um, without giving direct invitation to avoid legal conflicts, of course, but so that they can understand the people who are coming to visit, uh, OREM. We hope that this does better help you understand how we're able to use data to build a better OREM.

Of course, I can add too, we used to have to go out to consultants to get this level of data and statistical analysis. Great team internally that helps us We can act more quickly and use this information to attract foreign investments and, you know, the Iron Man of the future, other economic development efforts. So super appreciate the strategy and innovation team for putting this together.

Is this something you'll be sharing with us? Like, can we get copies of each slide?

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you.

Because it's a lot hard to see from there.

Sure.

It's a condensed version.

That's awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah. So if you're ever interested and want to look at another park in particular or anything, happy to help out with that.

Very informative. Thank you. All right, in 2 minutes we're going to cover the agenda review and preview of upcoming agenda items. I don't think you do, but tonight we've got 3 presentations. Council Legislative Day recap, Sleepy Region 4 Family Fitness Center annual report. We have personal appearances, consent items. You'll see a number of, of appointments and reappointments to different boards and commissions, council. Thank you. And those on the staff too, thank you for getting those in and get our, get our, uh, some of our boards up and strengthened on that. And then we have 2 scheduled public hearings. Both of them are, uh, one's a text amendment that, and actually they are, I I think both text amendments, and I think the 2nd one has a map too, but, um, to one, to allow commissary kitchens in the C-1 zone. And then the 2nd item is— comes from the home— when Home Depot was approved in December. This is amending the wall height and landscaping in certain areas based on what was, what was discussed in the December meeting.

So, um, that just makes the ordinance consistent with what the council approved in November.

So any questions? I did— oh, we are going to have our meeting minutes approved on their consent items too. Uh, any— anybody want to— anything? Want to say anything?

Um, just that Chris Kilback is online, and so just make sure you include him in—

Oh, okay. Hi, Chris.

Tell us anything.

Okay.

All right, off we go.

Can we just—

Hello, everyone.

Hope you're well.

Thank you.

When we do the appointments, 3 appointments, can we just invite people to stand if they're there?

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

Theresa, how you doing?

Good.

You're sounding—

Yeah, worked before.

Oh yeah, she's just, she's just plugged into the AC, right?

Test, test.

No.

I was like, yeah, we are all tables.

Okay.

I know.

Yeah.

All right, are we ready to go technologically and everything? Are we good? Okay, great. Thank you. Welcome. I would like to welcome you to the February 10th, 2026 Orem City Council meeting, and we'll go ahead and start with an invocation, inspirational thought by Darren Hawkins, and after that we will have the Pledge of Allegiance by Ellen Hawkins. Thank you for coming this evening.

Thank you for having me.

Right here?

Okay.

Our dear Father in heaven, We're so grateful to live in this good community surrounded by good people. We're grateful for the beauties of this world. We're grateful for people's kindness and grace. Please help us to have more of that. Please bless the council and the community as we deliberate, that we can remember the— those who are most needy among us. and to seek respect and peace. And we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Please repeat after me.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you for the invocation and for the Pledge of Allegiance.

She's a schoolteacher, so she does that every day.

You can tell.

Oh, yep, she's got it, got it down. Well, thank you. Appreciate you both. Before we go further, I would just like to Note that Councilmember Kilpatrick is joining us online this evening, and, and so when you do come up and speak, if you could speak very clearly into the microphone, that would help Councilmember Kilpatrick hear what you, what you're saying. All right, we have 3 presentations this evening. Our first presentation is from the Youth Council Legislative Day recap. And I'm looking for Jenica. Yes, some of us were able to go up to the legislature with, with the Youth Council or, or see them at the event, and I look forward to hearing what their impressions were. Thank you.

All right, thank you, Mayor and Council. Uh, we're excited to be here tonight. With our Sydney and I get to work with our wonderful Youth Council as advisors, and it's a lot of fun and a lot of learning for us and them. And we had the opportunity to take them up to Local Officials Day a couple of weeks ago and wanted to share just a little bit about their experience. So first, we have a really short video to share.

Yeah.

Oh, let me pull up the presentation.

Sorry.

All right, so it was an incredible day of networking and education. We went to the state capitol where our members had the chance to meet with other youth councils from across the state and take a brief tour of the capitol building.

And then one of the highlights of their day was having the opportunity to meet with Representative Val Peterson, who lives in Orem, and learn from him about, you know, the state legislative process, how that works, and be able to ask him questions and have some feedback. And so that was a really fun experience for them.

Then next we headed up to the Salt Palace where the Orem Youth Council made their voices heard during mock debates. So during our January activity, our Youth Council drafted a policy proposal focused on reducing food waste throughout the state by creating partnerships with local food businesses and schools. At the event, 2 of our members had the incredible opportunity of presenting this proposal in front of, front of hundreds of other students, and it was inspiring to see them stand at the podium and present their ideas. Um, we then, um, enjoyed a luncheon where our members got to meet additional state legislatures from Orem along with several of you. And then we wanted to express our appreciation to those of you who attended Local Officials Day, took the time to speak with our Youth Council, including Mayor Karen McCandless, along with City Council members Quinn, Meekum, Lanay Millet, and Crystal Mielstein. Having you there to meet and support our Youth Council made the experience even more powerful and meaningful for our youth.

So yeah, we just want to share that these youth are truly incredible. We had one of the larger groups at Local Officials Day, and it's, uh, they Had a great day learning, debating, and most importantly, having fun together as a team. And we're grateful for you and your continued support of this program, and I know they are too.

So, right, thank you. Do we have any members of the Youth Council here this evening?

No, they're all so overcommitted that like nobody could make it because they're like, I got 10 extracurriculars.

Yeah, I understand. I just wanted to acknowledge them if they were here, but, but Thank you. I enjoyed, thoroughly enjoyed visiting with them at lunch and hearing what their plans are as they go on and go forward in their life. Council, anyone else want to say anything? Okay, Councilmember Meekham.

Uh, I, I was in the room when, uh, they presented their proposal, and then there was a vote on it, and there was a lot of suspense, uh, as to whether or not the audience would support it and pass it. And when they did, I cheered inside. It was, uh, It was a lovely moment. I thought it was a highlight. Thanks.

Yeah, it was great. The, the other one at the meeting did not pass, so we'll take the victory.

I, I had the opportunity of, of being there when they were putting this proposal together, and I can't tell you how impressed I was at their— the care, um, their— how smart these young people are and how in tune they are with what's going on around them. them and how they really want to make a difference. And we have some really great leaders in this group of young men and young women, very passionate about making a positive difference in the world. So thank you for the work you're doing with them as well.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Yes, thank you. All right, next item on the agenda is a report on the Sleepy Ridge Golf Course. And Golden Holt is here to make that presentation. Welcome, Golden.

Oh, and—

oh, Chris, are you—

Mr.—

I'll be a part of it.

Okay.

It's always good to be here.

I learned that button last year. It's always good to be here annually because I have nothing but good news to share at this annual meeting. If I had negative news, I'd probably I wouldn't be as excited to be here, but you guys have all been great. Uh, 3 quick topics tonight. One, 2025 was— as an old basketball coach, it was always good, better, best. Well, we're at the best at Sleepy Ridge. Best year ever in revenue, best year ever in rounds of play, best year in weddings. We're just the best, and we always strive for best. Sleepy Ridge, good is not good stuff. And well, there's the clubhouse, which is stately and kind of set the stage. We added the new practice facility for the youth in the last couple years. Tonight we have an exciting thing to share with you that I think some of you know about. But we literally—

I don't—

it was the best. And weather, I'll take the snow. I have a landscape company, so I'm fine with snow. But the weather's really been— we were full today. We've been open 25 days this year. That's—it's just weather. But there's crazy golfers out there, and they'll put up a little bit. Anyway, it's been great. 2025. Second thing I wanted to bring up was thanks for this council, mayor, and previous for doing this water project. It's a big deal. Water reuse. It's not secondary water. It's not culinary water. We've been blessed to have. Warm support with culinary water all the years, which keeps our golf course beautiful. So the idea of this year— I know you're about to do a ribbon cutting or something in a month or so— we benefit from that, the Sleepy Ridge, because now we're going to go 100% reuse water. That's great. In the past, I probably didn't want to quantify it, but in July we use a million gallons of water a day. That's a lot of water. So now to be 100% reuse with the time investment and vision that this council has had, good on you. Good on you. So we're excited for that. Um, third thing, this new BEST thing. Some of you heard we've been at it for about 6 months with Chris's help. He's awesome. And the staff's help planning Department. We've been working on plans to do what I— we're actually going to name it Sleepy Ridge Family Golf Center. And what it is is a mini version of Topgolf. Chris, do we have that ready to share? 2 minutes. This will give a better visual than I can show or I can describe.

Don Ray, owner-operator of Augusta Ranch Golf Club and president of PGA of America, here to say that my installation of Toptracer was successful because of COVID the Tees. Matt Towle and his team not only knocked the job out in less than a week, 21 days. Price was very affordable and it's going to last forever. I think anybody who's putting in Toptracer, if they're going to ensure that the experience is for families, not just people who go to the range, they should put in Cover the Tees and make it as close to the Topgolf experience as possible. There is no doubt that Toptracer is successful at Augusta Ranch today, but only successful because I put in Cover the Tees.

Me too.

We discovered this Cover the Tees company in PGA Golf Show this year, and that's— we're contracting their engineering right now, this structure. What's a little different than what you saw in the video, ours will be enclosed on 3 sides, so the back will be covered because what the plan is to go 363 days of the year, uh, winter golf. And you saw families, it's an entertainment event. So with that structure, it goes right where our driving range sits. That cover the tee goes right over our existing tee box area of the driving range. You saw on that, so we're also— we get 1,350 more hours because now we're not closed at 5 o'clock because we're also going to put lights with it. And the lights aren't big poles and big nets. If you saw that one we're doing, the lights are in front on the ground, so it just shines out towards the driving range without a lot of light pollution or anything crazy like that. And so cover the tee, also will have heaters Like Topgolf, if you've been there. So you can literally go— the only thing that would shut us down would be snow because you can't pick up the balls. But other than that, it's just the driving range with that covered year-round heating and lighting. So that adds a whole lot more opportunity for family events, date night, those kind of things, which we're great at in Utah County. And so we're excited. Um, it'll all be privately financed. Um, just like Sleepy Ridge is, so the city won't have any burden. It'll be a reserve fund project that will— we're going through the golf committee with and the planning group, but all privately financed by us and repaid by that. So you'll inherit this when the contract expires. You'll have this as well as what we've done so far at Sleepy Ridge. So we're excited. We think it's a really great addition to Sleepy Ridge and will be the best.

Wow, it's exciting. Thank you. What an exciting year between that and the water reuse. That, that's going to be amazing. So Chris is coming online, what, usually in a month or so?

Our goal is to have a field trip with the council and an open house and a ribbon cutting at the water reuse facility on March 10th, probably around 3 o'clock. If that works out for everybody. On March 12th, we're looking at doing a public meeting at Sleepy Ridge Golf Course. They're going to be hosting that, and we'll take public input and provide some public education opportunities down there for everybody in that area.

All right, thank you. Um, I was there when— when— back— sound like an old person, but I am an old person— back in the day when the— when Sleepy Ridge and the Orem first Entered into the partnership. Mr. Holt, would you mind just taking like a minute or two and explaining the relationship between the city? You mentioned, you alluded to, that the city will eventually own the golf course or have the facilities, but I just was wondering if just for those in the audience who might not be familiar with the contractual relationship the city has with, with you and your organization.

Mayor, I appreciate you asking that. I think just you and Chris and I are the only ones that have lasted lasted this long. It was 2021 we signed a contract, and then 2005 the golf course opened, 2008 the clubhouse opened. But the nature of the contract's unique. I don't know if anybody in the country has done what, what we, what we came together to do. So the city of Orem put up the land and provides water. So this reuse water is a big, big deal because it's reuse and not culinary. What My role was as a private partnership, was the private side. We paid for the entire club golf course and clubhouse. And the concept was simple. We would operate the golf course long enough to get our money back, plus a percent return that was agreed upon. So the cities, other than the land and the support with the water, put no money into what was $12 million. If you put a value to it now, I'd have no idea what the value would be because the revenues were so high. And we, we struggled the first couple years out of a trailer and kind of did what other golf courses did, but we've just— with Orm's support and the location now being in the center of the world and not off on the edge, we've just had tremendous support. The other great thing that was envisioned by Greg Stevens— Jim Reams too, maybe— is that we have what's called the reserve fund that's required by the contract. So we have to take 5% of our revenues annually and put them in a reserve fund. And we have a golf committee that's 7 members— council members, me, some volunteers from the public— that meet annually to discuss expenditures on the reserve fund. And the only thing a reserve fund can do is a capital improvement. In other words, make sure the roof is intact, make sure the doors are on the building, make sure any improvements that need to be made, that the city doesn't inherit a dilapidated rundown course. Well, 5% of what last year was close to $3 million, so that's $150,000 a year we have to put back into the golf course. And that's why we do things like this. That's why we're the best. So great vision back with city leaders before. I've been a good partner and we've done our part, but it's been a, it's been a climb to the top. But we're on the downhill side of things, so we're excited. Just, this has just worked out really, really well, and we're grateful to have Ormond as a partner.

Well, we're grateful to have you as well. It, as I recall, we've got about, what, 15 years left? About 15, 14-something.

Sorry, Mayor, uh, it's 2060.

Oh, okay, okay.

What happened with 14? We were in the hole, and several years ago we amended the contract to add 14 years to it. That may—

Okay, that's what it was.

It was 2046 and originally announced 2060 based upon analysis done by your accounting.

So when that contract is up and Warren City will end up owning, as one person in an event called it earlier today, the That's correct. The castle, and then just that beautiful clubhouse. And then with the golf course, we'll have all of the city— will have ownership of that.

And golf courses, when you think about it, are timeless. St. Andrews is 400 years old. It isn't like a city block or something that may age. Golf seems to be pretty timeless. So I think it'll be a great asset forever.

Thank you. Council, do you have anything to add?

Councilmember, if I could just say something really quickly. I just want to thank Golden and his staff for the marvelous job that they do there. Um, not everyone golfs, uh, but those that do appreciate what you do there. Um, there's, uh, something about golf that brings or can bring generations together. Golf is something that you can play as a, as a child.

Thank you.

As a teenager, as an adult, and as an older adult senior. And just another wonderful way of bringing community and families together. And it's a beautiful course. I don't spend enough time down there, but I'm there a fair amount. And one of my happy places here in Orem. And thank you for, for the great job that you've done there and for the—

you're welcome—

the opportunities that you allow for friends and families to come together. And I'm excited about your new venture. I think that'll be great.

Families, you know, weddings, golf, it is about togetherness.

Thank you.

Right.

Anybody else? Right. Well, thank you. Appreciate our partnership and appreciate the report and excited to, to have these, these best changes happening. So thank you.

Well, look forward to hosting you in March with the, with the ribbon cutting, right?

Thank you.

By the way, we plan to open this April 15th, our facility. You can hold me to that.

Nice. All right, thank you. Our next presentation is, um, our Library and Recreation Director Bryce Merrill giving a report on the Family Fitness Center annual Mayor and Council, thank you.

I'm joined today by Mariah Shirley, our division manager over the Orem Family Fitness Center, and we just wanted to take an opportunity to celebrate a January well done on New Year's resolutions and do our annual report. So I'll turn it over to Mariah for a minute.

Hi, thank you for having me tonight. I'm excited to talk about kind of what, what like the, the new year brings for us. Um, the new year is a fun time for a fitness center. I don't know if you've heard of a resolution, and people make them around this time of year. So it's fun to be able to talk about what we're doing, what we get up to this time of year. It's a busy time of year, so I'm excited to share with you guys what we got going on. Um, so first, um, at the beginning of the year year, or kind of towards the end of last fall, we, we launched a few exciting new classes that began, um, I think November of last year. We had gotten some feedback that people were looking for a meditative type class, a breathing type class, and so our fitness coordinator was able to open up an extended yoga session. So you can go to a yoga class and then go to a sound bath afterwards or a meditation class. There are monthly specialty classes. So they do really good at building community. You end up having the same 40 or 50 people, which is a really big group for a fitness class, come together and be able to have kind of a meditative moment in the fitness center. So that's been fun to see, you know, a calmer, more meditative option for people. Not that, you know, fitness isn't well-rounded. We've got, you know, your spin people, your high fitness people. We got people jumping, and then we've got a little bit of meditation over at the fitness center as well. Something interesting is that we've had really nice outdoor weather this year. And so we've actually seen a little bit of a dip on our daily admission because who's not going to take advantage of 50-degree weather out there? And so honestly, we've seen some really good growth on some of our fitness classes like our, our new classes, our sound baths, our meditations. But our spin classes are a little bit suffering because people are excited to be outside, and we are thrilled for them to be outside too. So we are— we're looking at our, our classes in the new year, and we do a lot of evaluations to make sure that we keep up classes that really meet the need of our community. So that's our fun fitness review. I just wanted to let you kind of know what a day looks like at the fitness center. At any time, we have 200 to 300 people there during peak hours, but I would hope that you guys, if you've used the fitness center, or people here, they hopefully don't see that and they don't notice that. So at any one time, with, you know, some of our peak hours between 6 to 11 or the time after work, 4 to 8 PM, you can see 200 to 300 300 people in the facility doing their own unique fitness experience, but hopefully people can get their own piece of equipment. Every user's experience is distinct, and we, we really strive to create an environment where equipment is readily available. You can get access to the equipment that you might need or be able to attend the class that you want. Since 2021, I began a few years ago, our original membership number back then was somewhere in the 20,000s, and in the last few years we've been able to grow it to more than 23,000 So that's a really cool— that's cool growth, and it's exciting to be able to host all of those members in a unique individual way. I thought it would be fun to share a little bit of how we are making the decisions behind the scenes. There's a lot of moving parts and pieces, and this is just a fun view of one of the pieces of information that we have access to. So we can see the number of hours that somebody might spend on a piece of equipment on any given day. So I don't know if you can see in there, but you get a couple fun jumps up in January. We've got some cute little, uh, winter resolutions starting. But I hope you'll notice that it's not just January. We have a little bit of a fitness trend that means people don't want to be the new guy on January 1st, so there's not that crazy of a difference. We have some really good attendance in November and December. People are, are trying to use the facility during all times of the year. And so we do get a few, a few newcomers, a few people that we're excited to welcome. But overall, it's just fun to see not only does the usage grow a little bit in January, but we are, we are busy all times during the year. Um, a couple projects that we've been working on. Um, we are really delighted with the recent enhancements to our lap pool area. We were able to replace the old damaged flooring with a durable and pretty visually appealing option. It's really pretty in there. It's really bright. and light. It's really opened up the room. And this was a really combined effort between us, our maintenance team, the contractor, and like our, our innovation team. They were able to find us a grant that was able to cover a really large portion of this project, and I'm really grateful to work with so many great people that helped this project move forward. Um, initially we thought it was going to be about a 2-week closure, which would have interfered with a couple of our high school swim meets, but But thanks to our amazing maintenance team and our contractor who was super willing to work with us, we were able to narrow it down to a 10-day window and host a high school swim meet in the middle of the construction. It was a little chaotic, but it was worth it to us to make sure that we were able to get swimmers in the water. It really was like a, you know, a real all-hands-on-deck project on this one. I'd also like to highlight kind of an internal practice, and maybe Bryce can speak a little bit more to it, but— Um, prior to when I got here in 2021, we had had some, some frustrations with our boiler units that are heating the pools. It was having a hard time maintaining temperature in the leisure pool, and unfortunately that's a, you know, a really terrible experience for people if your pool is not up to the temperature. It can affect how cold your children are while they're swimming, or we have a lot of users that are coming for something like an arthritis class or for water walking in the lazy river. And so it needs to be a good warm environment for them. And so back in 2021 with the frustrations at the time, I think it was Bryce that made the move to purchase a secondary boiler, kind of a backup, so that we wouldn't have an offline time should our boilers struggle. And we actually were able to take advantage of it this year. We had a bit of a bummer with our boiler. It went down and it went down fast. It was an untimely death of the boiler. And within 12 from a 5:00 AM call from lifeguards to a 5:00 PM install, we were able to prevent the leisure pool from declining in temperature too high or too low, and we were able to start reheating within 12 hours, which is all-around excellent work from planning ahead of time to having a maintenance team that really tackled it. Our maintenance guy Brandon is a wizard, and he really helped us get back on board. On the same thread of experience, I wanted to highlight one more quick thing that we did during the pool deck refinishing. We ended up kind of separating the two areas. You'll notice behind the glass back there, you've got your leisure pool experience, and then you've got your lap pool experience, and they're now a little separate, which means that we can control volume, we can control air temperature, we can control a few different elements that can make or break somebody's experience. I don't know if y'all have had the opportunity to be there during a high school swim meet, but it is chaotic and fun. So it means that it gets loud, and so we are doing swim lessons at the same time over in the leisure pool. So being able to separate the rooms but still provide visual access to both spaces is huge. And so it's been such a great difference, and we're able to open up the doors and provide an easy access to both areas, but we've been able to manage the environment and manage the experience for people. So it's been, it's been exciting. Um, and then lastly, I'd be lying if I said that we are not always looking forward to summer, and So here's just a little bit of what we have coming online spring 2026. As per usual, we are going to celebrate the fitness center's birthday. It's a good time to have a little bit of a discount for members that are trying to get a membership. We do quite a few different celebrations. We do a variety pack of fitness classes. We try and extend to every little area. So the pool gets a little bit of celebration, the childcare, the fitness classes. We try and celebrate with everybody. Hey, sorry. Um, and then we also have— that's when we do all of our summer registration. So, in March and April is when we're going to be doing all of our summer swim lessons and our diving classes and our summer swim team. And then around that same time, we open up the Sarah's season pass sale as well. So we get people excited, we get people grooving so that people have something to do with us all year round.

I'll just add a quick note. Uh, we are excited to be joined by Councilmember Millett. on the Recreation Advisory Commission. We were under the careful and passionate stewardship of Councilmember Spencer before that, and it's been fun to see our residents connect with the different recreation programs that we have, a number of different teams and competitions and leagues. The Hillcrest Center that has come online has just absolutely helped to explode the participation in indoor youth sport programs. But at the center of it all is Mariah and her team to manage the fitness center. And so there's a lot of prudence from her team to make sure that this stays off of your to-do list on the frustrating things, you know, boilers and glass and some of those unfun surprises that can happen with such a large and heavily used facility, and instead keep the focus on some of the community building, the different classes and programs and people that come into the facility each day. So we're grateful for the vision and support of Recreation and to Mariah and her team for what they're doing at the fitness center and look forward to continuing into the summer. So that's our presentation. Are there any questions?

Council, any questions? Okay, Councilmember Gale.

The fitness center has a very special place in my heart. I have spent many, many hours there. That and the pool looks fantastic, so thank you for working on that and putting the glass in. And I was sitting in the meeting yesterday actually at the fitness center, and from where I was sitting I could see the glass, the beautiful glass window Where the treadmills are right in front of those. And I thought, man, if you gotta run, that is the place to do it.

So you guys do a great job.

It's maintained so well, and the community loves it.

So thank you.

Councilmember Miller.

So, and I would just like to thank you both. You know, being new on the Rec Commission, I— you guys gave me a, um, tour that I requested of the pool and that area. And it had been probably— I mean, I had a child who was on the swim team when it was OTAC. Like 15 years ago, and it was so rewarding to go in and see what the setup is now for our swim teams. So much better. And I really appreciate that opportunity for our Orem kids to excel in such a great sport. So thank you for, you know, working with me and taking the time to give me a tour and, and fill me in on the great things happening there. Appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Yes, thank you. I have my family— I raised my kids in Orem, and just, we have such fond memories of the fitness center. I have suffered immeasurably in spin class there, but also have made friendships that still, still go, that we're still in contact with each other even though it's been so many years. Swimming— my— I had a child swim on a high school swim team, and just great Grateful for the improvements that are there and, and just glad that we have something like that, have a facility as the caliber that we do have in our community.

Thank you.

All right, the next item on the agenda are personal appearances. Have one— we have 9 people who have signed up to speak. 8 of you 2 have come to speak about short-term rentals, and one has come to speak about multi-generational housing. So just to remind you that we ask that you limit your comments to 3 minutes or less, that it's— this time has been set aside to express your ideas, concerns, and comments for items not on the agenda, schedules, public hearings. If you're wishing to speak speak, you're encouraged to show respect for those who serve the city. Comments should focus on issues concerning the city, and those wishing to speak should have signed in before the beginning of the meeting. And again, please limit your comments to 3 minutes or less. And just an addendum to that, if you're not on this list, that I won't recognize you right this evening as a public appearances. So Um, we're just going to go ahead with the 9 that are, that are here this evening. First person is Chris Hammond, if you'd like to come up.

Whoa.

Uh, thank you, Mayor and council members, and congratulations to those of you who are new and those of you who I know. Um, my name, as Was represented as Chris Hammond. I moved to Orem 53 years ago as a property manager, and I was teaching in Provo at the time. Uh, the city is not just where I worked, but it is also where I built my life. In 1970, my husband and I built the home and family home in Orem, and after he passed away, I raised my 4 children there. And over time, it has been used to welcome in single mothers, displaced teens, and other family members. For 40 years, I have worked in education administration as a professor, curriculum writer. I serve on the chamber in Orem, and I tell you this because I want you to understand my investment in this community. I have represented Provo and Alpine School District and Utah across the western States and nationally as a speaker and a consultant. Today I run my own business, service the nonprofit on boards, manage properties, and sell real estate right here in Orem. I share this so that you understand who I am. I am not a criminal. I am not greedy. I am not care— I am not careless about my neighbors and the community. I am a grandmother, an educator, a business owner, And a lifelong resident who has spent decades helping people in Orem. So when hosts like me are portrayed in irresponsible or predatory or hurt, it hurts deeply. And because it simply isn't true, it is essential damaging to my character and my business. It characterizes assassination and defamation of character, and I feel like this is irresponsible from in the city to be spoken of that way in a public forum. I support regulation, and I ask that decisions be based on real data and real experiences and not fear. I do not believe that the data has been presented well, and I do not feel that people are voting according to things where they have experienced what we are talking about. In my specific home I have reduced vehicles and congestion by 70%. Noise has dropped dramatically, and the property is clean and well maintained, and I know my neighbors and see them always. I had a long-term rental where they were barbecuing in the garage. They had parties every weekend, over 30 or more, and it was very destructive to the neighborhood. My guests are now families here for graduation, wedding, funerals, and local events.

Thank you.

My home is a 7-bedroom home, over 3,000 square feet. I follow the long-term standard rent— rents or rental things of 2 people per 100 square feet, fewer occupants than when I raised my own family. There has been improvement in my neighborhood. Orem calls itself a family-centered place. Please remember, behind every address is a real person. Behind every license is a livelihood.

Thank you.

Behind every policy is a story like mine. Orem must look at what it is looking at. Grandparents like me are simply trying to stay afloat. First, I ask for balance, for data-driven solutions, for opportunity for each area to be considered based on merit, and for compassion. Please let us be heard. Please let us be part of this solution. And please do not Negate us as part of this. Thank you.

All right, thank you, Miss Hammond. I just have a quick question before— I'm going to ask this of everybody who's coming to speak on short-term rentals. It sounds like if you do own— if you own one, if it would be helpful for me as I'm doing my research if you told me whether the short-term rental is one that you own in your home, if it's owner-occupied or not. Again, please know that I'm I'm not using this to make a list to go after anybody or anything like that. It's just helpful to me.

No, I'm in the next city over. I live with my daughter because of my age.

Okay, thank you. All right, Aaron Larson.

So Orem's motto is Family City USA, but today that identity is under threat. We're facing 2 serious challenges: a shortage of affordable housing and an epidemic of loneliness. Tonight I'm proposing an old solution to modern problems: make it easier to build and remodel homes for multi-generational living. Homes designed for grandparents, parents, and kids to thrive under one roof with dignity and privacy. Orem is increasingly becoming a city where only the privileged can afford to live— the wealthy or those lucky enough to have bought when it was affordable. My friend told me that all of his adult children are moving to Eagle Mountain because Orem is not affordable. When young families do buy in Orem, it often takes 2 full-time incomes. Um, my— I know a family where the dad works 3 jobs and the mom works 2 just to cover the house payment. When my mother-in-law grew up in Orem in the '60s, nearly half the city was kids. Today, only about a quarter of Orem's residents are under 18. Our neighborhoods, once filled with the sounds of children, are becoming filled with echo houses, silent homes where seniors live in isolation. Research shows that when our seniors don't live with family, the city and the taxpayers eventually end up carrying more of the downstream cost— more crisis calls, more support needs, more strain on local services. Successful multi-generational living requires intentional design that reduces friction and preserves dignity and privacy. We need a city code that makes it easier, not harder, to build or remodel multi-generational homes. By modifying our code to encourage these legacy homes, we solve 3 problems at once. We keep young families in Orem. Number 2, we provide built-in care for our seniors, saving everyone money and providing a better quality of life for the entire family. And number 3, we stabilize the tax base by maximizing the utility of our land and decreasing the burden that otherwise is shifted to the city's budget. Since I broke my ground— since I broke ground on my home 2 and a half years ago, I haven't taken a vacation. 6 days a week, the moment I finish my day job at a nonprofit, I'm out there building my legacy home with my own 2 hands. In the dark, the snow, the rain, and the heat. I'm building a level for my parents so that they can age with dignity instead of in a facility. I'm building a space for my 2 adult children to raise my grandchildren. I don't want my grandchildren to come home after school to an empty house because their parents are having to work long hours to afford a home. I'm putting my blood, sweat, and tears into this home because I want my family to stay in Orem. I'm committed to finishing this home as quickly and as beautifully as possible so it can be an asset to Palisade Drive for the next 500 years. Please consider modifying the Orem City Code to remove the barriers to multi-generational home design to make it easier for others to do what I'm doing so that Orem stays affordable, connected, and strong.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. All right, before we go to our next person, I'm going to clarify something I said. Um, you don't need to say what you— if you own, or just don't— you don't need to say anything about that, as if it's owner-occupied or not. Um, that's entirely up to you, but you don't I'm not going to ask. Pretend I didn't ask that. All right, our next speaker is— let me see here— Rob Sloat. Okay, I'm sorry.

I see some new faces from last year. Congratulations on your electoral victories there. Good evening, my council members, uh, and thank you for the opportunity to, to speak. My name is Rob Sloat. I've been a resident of Orem since 1999, and in 2002 I purchased the home I had been renting. This is not an investment property. It is my personal residence and my long-term home. As a licensed real estate broker, I'm familiar with what the law calls the bundle of rights, and that comes with each property ownership. One of my foundational rights is the right to, uh, to rent one's property, and that principle has long been recognized as part of the responsible private ownership here. A few years ago, facing retirement like many homeowners facing rising costs, I looked for a modest way to supplement my income. I considered short-term rentals by renting out rooms in my own home. Before doing anything, I contacted the city to make sure I was acting responsibly. And in good faith, and I was told that there was no established policies at that time prohibiting short-term rentals. Based on that guidance, I went and invested my real money painting, furnishings, preparing the space, uh, and marketing, and with all the understanding that I was acting within my rights. I want to be very clear about something. Um, I don't have a large Investment portfolio. I don't have a pension to fall back on. This income is not a luxury. It's part of how I stay in my home. If short-term rentals are restricted, the impact on me is immediate and personal. I would either need to take on additional work or face the very real possibility of losing my home. Much of the argument against short-term rentals is built upon isolated problem cases. But every issue, whether it's noise, parking, or bad behavior, already exists in long-term rentals too. These are enforcement issues, not rental-type issues. Penalizing responsible homeowners because of a few bad actors is neither logical nor fair. Um, good policy targets behavior and not ownership rights. I would ask the council to consider carefully any restrictions they put on, uh, to affect investors. They affect residents like me also. And, um, please don't solve isolated problems by removing long-term rights, uh, from law-abiding citizens and homeowners.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you, Mr. Sloat. Um, next we have Thomas Packer.

Thank you for your time. I'm Thomas. Yesterday, I lost my job as a manager of software engineers and data scientists, so I'm taking a little time away from the job search to talk to you a little bit about a small but important part of my family's remaining income. I was surprised last year when I heard Orem City Starting to say I did something wrong with my house. Let me tell you about my story, and feel free to tell or let me know where I went wrong. I moved from the Aspen State to the Windsor, or Aspen to the Windsor neighborhood in 2016. We have a basement that we wanted to finish for family use, but put. We put that off for 5 years because of the cost. We considered our options and short-term rentals was the only viable option at that time. It probably still would be today. Sorry. So we considered our options. Short-term rentals was the only viable option. It had a number of good features. Both guests and family members could use it at different times. It would provide income for our kids and would cover the second mortgage necessary to pay for construction. We discussed as a family, prayed about it. It felt like the right decision. It would cost about $150,000. to finish. We were open and honest about the plans to do short-term rentals from start to finish. We worked with Hacking Construction, a local company, in 2021 who worked directly with Orem City, set up all the inspections, etc., and finished our basement. It was beautifully done. Very secure. It has one bedroom, one bathroom, a full kitchen, a TV room, a laundry room, and a private entrance. I did everything asked of me, including the landlord requirement. Never once did I hear a question or hint from the city or Hacking Construction that STRs were not perfectly legal.

Thank you.

At that time. Never once have I had a complaint from neighbors. In fact, they appreciate having the option of letting their own family members from out of state stay in our basement. So I guess I just ask that enough unbiased research be conducted that a fair and nuanced policy can be decided. Thank you.

Thank you.

And I'm sorry about your, your job loss and hope that, that you're able to find something in the time frame that you would like. All right, next we have Kells Goodman. He had to leave. Oh, he left?

Okay.

Derek Brown.

Good evening, City Council. Thanks for letting me speak today. My name is Derek Brown. I live here in Orem. Um, right after college, I bought an older home in Orem, and to make it work financially, I lived in the basement and rented out the top as an Airbnb. Uh, the property had a large yard, and after researching zoning codes and completing all the required steps, I was able to legally split the yard into a separate buildable lot. Um, after securing funding, my original plan was to build a very basic home on the lot. Um, I even purchased plans online, sent them to engineering, and was just a few days away from submitting these plans to the Orem Building Department. Uh, as I was about to submit those plans, in the back of my head, I always, I guess, had a bigger dream to build a house specifically for Airbnb. Um, I figured since I was already doing the safe route, I might as well call the city and see if that dream is even possible. And so that's exactly what I did. I told them, you know, I have these plans that are already pretty much ready, but if Airbnbs are legal, that I'd much rather build a house specifically for Airbnb. And I was told that that's possible, and as long as I obtained a business license and a landlord license, that I'd be compliant and it would be legal. And so based on that information, I moved forward. I scrapped my original plans, redesigned the house to be a, a really standout Airbnb. Um, it has floating stairs, a 3rd-floor rooftop deck with a hot tub and fireplace up there, uh, and incredible views of the Wasatch Front. Uh, naturally, this version cost significantly more, uh, but I trust the information that I was given, and I went all in. In July of 2024, I quit my job and, uh, took on much of the labor myself, and that's all I've done since then. 6 months later, well into the build process, you know, I received an email from Airbnb stating that Orem was moving to make short-term rentals illegal, which was a complete shock to me because it was the opposite of what I was told and was building towards. By that point, I was far past the point of no return. I continued forward, but with far more stress and anxiety as I originally anticipated. I invested in Orem specifically specifically because I trusted the guidelines I received from the city officials. What I'm asking tonight is simple, is just please uphold the commitments that were made. Those of us who acted in good faith based on clear direction from the city should be grandfathered in. This is the exact situation grandfathering exists for. I understand and respect that the city wants to change the rules moving forward, but please don't retroactively penalize those who relied on what was said said in those rules as, um, they were communicated at the time. I love Orem. I'm grateful that you care about making it better, a better place to live. Uh, I just believe the decision to remove grandfathering overlooks residents who acted responsibly, transparently, and in full compliance, uh, with what we were told. Um, you know, where is the, the transparency for the training of city officials? You know, is there a test that need to pass, uh, to know the ordinance and, and to guide We as hosts are not confused, rather misguided, uh, by those who claim to be experts on the codes and ordinances. Thank you for your time.

All right, thank you very much. Right next, we have Tammy Rodriguez.

Good evening, Mayor and council members. I appreciate the opportunity to be here tonight to voice concerns in this open forum that you have provided us as citizens. As you are aware, we're facing a housing crisis in Orem, but not what many might think I'm going to talk about. I'm talking about the lack of— not talking about the lack of units available for transient students, for out-of-towners coming in for a graduation or sporting events. I'm talking about single-family housing in neighborhoods that foster a safe, friendly environment for Orem citizens trying to establish and raise families. I grew up I grew up in Orem and decided I wanted to raise my family here, so I invested in a single-family home in a neighborhood zoned for such. Unfortunately, over the years, my beautiful little neighborhood has shifted into apartment homes. On my one street alone, one block long, there are 7, soon to be 8 illegal rentals, and that does not include the halfway house at the end of my street. Gone is the neighborhood that I loved where I got to know my neighbors.

Thank you.

While I know the NIT team has made efforts to enforce the influx of long-term rentals, it falls to the landlords and homeowners, to be honest, when they deal with the city. Unfortunately, given these property owners are knowingly breaking the law, it stands to reason that they lied to code enforcement when confronted. The city just doesn't have the means nor the manpower it needs to effectively research and enforce against against these business owners. My grave concern today is for this council's contemplation about changing from total prohibition for short-term rentals to that of regulated rentals. By, um, the city's admission, there are over 200 illegally operating STRs citywide, unregulated, with landlords who are knowingly not adhering to, um, The written laws. They have turned a blind eye to zoning laws, land use laws, desires of concerned neighbors, and that in itself floors me. To think they will automatically fall in line with new regulation is a pipe dream at best. Given my experience with illegal long-term rentals and the city's inability to regulate them, I'm sure you are empathetic to my serious concerns about effectively regulating STRs. Not only are these rentals continuing to eat away at single-family properties and the strong foundation of lifelong residents in Orem, they pose traffic disruptions, heightened safety concerns due to drivers not knowing the area or where, where children walk to and from school, or children who simply want to ride bikes on the streets of their own neighborhoods, as well as parking disasters and the introduction of unnumbered unknown renters who and the safety of Orem citizens. Um, I would implore you as council members, those who hold the power to ultimately affect the lives of those in Orem that you are elected by and sworn in to protect, to consider these legitimate concerns before you allow further infiltration of businesses into areas clearly zoned as residential. I have no desire to live in the apartment complex of single-family homes that I currently live in, let alone If it becomes legal to turn these homes into a hotel. Thank you so much for your time, and I hope you enjoy your evening.

Thank you. Next, we have Angela Johnson.

All right, coming to these things is not my thing, but I love Parks and Rec, so here I am. But, um, So I'm going to speak as both a landlord and someone who— we have been all over, have utilized short-term rentals mostly out of the state. We're from a family of 7, and it has been ideal to, rather than go to a hotel and have to rent 2 rooms, to be able to have a family home where we can go to— where you can go to a store, make dinner in a full kitchen, and have your laundry, everything right there. We are very respectful, and they always ask, so why are you here, right? Because they're protecting a major investment. I had something to read, but I'm never good at reading things. Like, I, I just can't. But anyway, um, so it's been really a blessing for us to be able to have that. It would be really ideal in Orem to be able to offer that same thing. Change happens. I understand that it is frustrating, especially for those who've been been there long-term, but it's something that, you know, change is scary. No one likes it, but it's something we do have to adapt to. My point is, it's been a blessing in our lives. I am a long-term rental owner, but I mean, I can see the appeal to short-term because our last renters destroyed our place. They made it impossible for us to go in and check the place. They were hoarders. They damaged it, and now things that could have been a small cost are now— we've had to rip out a ton of stuff and it's turned into a major cost. So that's very frustrating for someone who is a landlord, who that is part of our livelihood. I wish I could quit my job, right? I really wish I— I have 5 kids. I want to be home. But that's not happening. And so just knowing that we've been able to access Airbnbs outside, you know, in Norway, in wherever we've been, Idaho. We've gone there so often. Wherever we've been, it would be great to be able to offer that for people who are coming here short-term. And it's it's much better to have these short-term renters, right? That are maybe you have an annoyance here and there with one, but you can kick them out in a heartbeat, right? If they're not complying with what you want. investment, you can kick them out in a heartbeat. Believe me, it is much harder. We've been landlords since 2010. It's been much harder to kick out long-term renters. So that's what I have to say. I'm sure I had more. I can never read these things. But anyway, on a positive note, I proposed to my ex-husband on Friday, and I'm going to call him out because I'm the one doing this because he didn't want to.

Thank you.

Well, thank you, Angela. I appreciate you. All right, and finally, Samantha. And I would pronounce your last name, and I'm so sorry, I don't even— will you pronounce it for me, please?

So my name is Samantha Figueroa.

Okay, thank you. Welcome.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. So I'm— I was born and raised here. And I— yeah, I'll just read this. Airbnb and other short-term rental properties provide a valuable and unique benefit to our city. They bless not just tourists or other short-term visitors, but also families moving to Utah or immigrating to the United States, as well as families between or renovating their homes. They offer a more clean feeling of home option than a hotel, increased privacy, flexibility, outdoor areas, and more space for those looking for a more permanent home. Beyond this, short-term rentals provide a boost to the local economy. Many families supplement their income by offering short-term rentals. Getting rid of these properties would cause a significant and immediate loss of income for local families. While not an owner of a short-term rental property myself, I have personally benefited from them, using them for church activities, family get-togethers, and other events. I would be disappointed to see them go or to see them cast in a negative light. They provide many benefits to our community, and I hope a solution can be reached that isn't based in fear. Thank you so much.

Right, thank you. That concludes the list I have of those who are here for public appearances. Thank you. I just want to take a moment and just give an update to those who are here about where, where I believe we stand, currently stand, Council, with, with this issue. We did have a work session on it last Council meeting, before last Council meeting, meeting, and we instructed the— asked the staff to put together, gather information from the past 2 years, the written emails, other types of written comments. Plus, we just today received about 45 minutes of video comment from the past council meetings about this issue. So we're continuing. We sense the urgency. I don't know if you saw the article There was an article in the Daily Herald last weekend about this. But we continue to— we recognize as a council the sense of urgency. We also are mindful that the state legislature is in session right now to the beginning of March. And so we want to— usually every year there's something that comes up in the legislature about short-term rentals. We haven't seen anything yet. So we're kind of just keeping an eye on that as well. But know that we appreciate the feedback we've received. I know I've and others have received emails and texts about short-term rentals and know that we take our responsibility very seriously as far as evaluating and contemplating this issue. So I do see— I'm going to guess that it's— I don't know when we're going to be coming back and discussing this in a formal setting as far as an ordinance or what exactly we're going to do. We haven't, as a council, talked about it, but I just wanted to let you know that it is on the forefront of our minds on that. So thank you for coming this evening. All right, I don't know, council, if you want to add anything. Is my— is that your understanding as well, council, where we're at? Okay, I want to make sure. That's the case. All right, next we have consent items. We have some meeting approval, approving meeting minutes, and we have some reappointments and appointments. So after, after the consent, after we, we vote on this, if you are here, if you've been reappointed, or if you are here to do that, if you could stand, we'd like to recognize you. I'll read off the names after we do the vote, but we'd like to just recognize you and express our appreciation. So, um, Council, you have before you the, the information about the consent items, and I would entertain a motion on that. Okay, go ahead. Oh, do you want me to read the names first?

Read through it.

Okay, approval of meeting minutes, reappointment. I'm going to read the names right now. Reappointment. Historical Preservation Advisory Commission, Lon Boland, Olivia Johnson, and Brittany Laidler. Appointment to the Historical Preservation Advisory Commission, Brent Eliason. Reappointment to the Cultural Arts Advisory Commission, Scott Swain, Mike Ramsey, and La Bean. And appointment to the Sleepy Ridge Golf Course Commission, Brian Dutcher.

Dutcher.

Sorry, I am just terrible with— I'm sorry. Are any of you here this evening that we— all right. Okay, Mike, thank you for being willing to serve. All right, counsel, I would entertain a motion on the consent.

I motion to approve the consent items.

All right, we have a motion. Is there a second to approve the consent items?

I second.

All right, thank you. Um, we have a motion and a second on the consent items. Go ahead and do a roll call vote. We're going to start down here with Councilmember Gail.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Oh, it's Chris. It's your turn.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, thank you. Motion carries. Now we have item 10. We have 2 scheduled public hearings. First public hearing is to contemplate an ordinance request to amend the text of Appendix A of the Orem City Code, adding commissary kitchens to the language of Standard Land Use 6291 and have— and allowing it as a permitted use in the C-1 commercial zone. And after the tech is set up, we'll turn the time over to Um, Jared Hall from our planning— our community development department. Doesn't that look amazing and relaxing? You just take council meeting, right?

I'm going to sign up for those meditation classes at the fitness center. That's about my Speed for fitness.

Puts me in the mood. Fitness and a nap sounds good to me.

Okay, uh, Mayor, members of the council, thanks for having me tonight. I'm, I'm gonna just share a few slides explaining this Um, request for text amendment. This has been made by a group called Lemon and Sage, and the request basically amends Appendix A. What Appendix A is, is our list of the land uses that we allow in different zoning designations. It's a big long list, and it's a matrix basically, and I'll show you a little bit of that. But their request is to change, to make a couple of changes to standard land use code. That's that SLU that you see there. You see 6291, that is currently catering services, and they're asking to add the language to see— sorry, to C-1 zoning. This is the property they're interested in using is right here. It's in the C-1 zone, and that's the reason it'll affect all of the C-1 zones in the city. But the impetus is this particular property they'd like to use for a commissary kitchen. Catering services use similar facilities. Uh, they're very much the same kind of thing, but we wanted to be clear and make sure that commissary kitchens was added to the language. Um, that's their first request. These are the— you can see depictions of the areas of the city that are in the C-1 zone. It's our least common of the C zones. We have C-1, C-2, and C-3. Uh, C-2 is all up and down the corridor of State Street. C-1 is more specialized, has less uses allowed in it. Um, this is a little snip from the matrix that I was talking about, that Appendix A. This is from Appendix A. Appendix A. You can see land use 6291 right there, catering services. Part of the request is to add that language and commissary kitchens. And then the other part of the request is to make it a permitted use in the C-1 zone. You can see in the C-2 and C-3, it is permitted. C-1 is the only one of the commercial zones that doesn't permit catering services and commissary kitchens. Um, that is the request in a nutshell. Um, if I can answer any of the questions you might have about it, the Planning Commission did vote, um, to recommend approval to the council on this matter, having heard them out in the public hearing. Um, there you go.

All right, thank you. Council, do you have any questions for Mr. Hall?

I'm sorry, would you again— would you define commissary kitchen?

Good, good question. So a commissary kitchen is one that gets used by various other people. It's a commercial kitchen as opposed to the kind that you'd have for production. People It's not a retail kitchen, so it's not like a restaurant. Customers don't go to this facility to eat or pick up food. Food is prepared here and served elsewhere. Food trucks use commissary kitchens. Caterers use kitchens of this nature, commercial kitchens. It's for off-site preparation of food. Thanks for pointing that out. That's like the single most important part about it, and I, I just breezed right past it.

No, that's okay. And do we have one of those in Orem yet?

We do not have a commissary kitchen in Orem right now, one that's being used by multiple different users that I'm aware of, but I could, I could be wrong about that. We do have catering services in Orem right now, but right now we don't have a lot of ghost— some people call them ghost kitchens. Different restaurants will use a restaurant briefly to try out new menu items, things like that, and then serve them at different locations. But again, we just have a catering service. I forget where it is, but we don't have a commissary kitchen right now. So this would be useful for food truck vendors. Other, other people do, um, people do different food preparation that they, they've started in their homes and they've grown past what the state will allow for, for food preparation in their homes and for vending. So they'll want to move to a situation where they can lease space, use time in this kind of kitchen, prep food that they then sell in other places. So, right, it'd be an asset in that regard. Yeah.

Right.

Thank you.

Any other— Councilmember Lamson, can you tell us what's There now.

I drove by there and I didn't see any signage.

Right. Um, I think most recently, this most recently was used for— at one point it was a seminary building. It's been something else since then. I think it was a therapy office. Um, but that's been the most recent deal. It's vacant right now.

Councilmember Lamson, we'll have the applicant— ask the applicant to come up in a minute and can probably—

they could probably answer that better. I believe it was— I believe it was an office. Office use recent, most recently.

Right.

Council, any other questions for Mr. Hall?

Right.

Is the applicant here this evening?

Right.

If you'd like to come up and introduce yourself, and if you have anything you would like to add to what has been presented.

Thank you. Appreciate that. Um, Mayor, City Council, my name is Christian Calliker, and I'm the owner of Lemon and Sage Kitchens. Uh, we currently operate in Springville. And we're hoping to expand into Orem to provide the same services here. The current building is used as an office building. It has been part of the ION Solar kind of complex up there, which owns the other buildings on that block. They are trying to sell the building, and they have tried to sell it for a while. We are under contract, and initially we were trying to get a— asking if we could do a zoning change to C-2. The planning committee or the— sorry, the Planning Commission and the office, the staff recommended that we go for a text amendment instead because that would not allow sort of a permanent change. A C-2 would allow, you know, car dealerships, all kinds of stuff. To add a little context to what a commissary does, it is a general commercial kitchen. We at Lemon and Sage, We provide those commercial kitchen services to a wide variety of businesses. We operate under the permitting of the Utah Department of Agriculture and Food, as well as the Utah County Health Commission. So we serve not only food trucks, but also packaged food vendors, caterers, private chefs, bakers, cooking instructors, all kinds of people. That need a commercial kitchen in order to produce or provide food at a different venue. In Springville, where we have been operating for about 10 years, we've helped somewhere between 160 and 180 businesses to kind of get started. And so the other term that we use is as a culinary incubator. We essentially help small microbusinesses get started. with things that they shouldn't be doing at home. A lot of people do this from home. We help them take the step to become legal and operate under the guidance and the permitting of the Utah County Health Commission, as well as the Utah Department of Agriculture and Foods. So, any questions that I can help clarify, I'm happy to try to do that.

Right.

Council, do you have any?

Your intent is to use the Yes, yes.

Okay.

Very little changes, probably none on the exterior.

And based on what you do, this can be a hard question here, what do you see as the most negative impact that you would have on the homes that are nearby?

Well, I think everything is relative. You know, right now it's an office building.

It has about—

it probably has more traffic to to it today than it will in the future. Our business in Springville, we have about anywhere from, you know, 2 to 5 people visit it daily. People generally tend to come in and, you know, do batch production or prepare things and so forth, right? So it's very low impact in that sense. The property today, I think, has 31 parking spots. We intend to reduce that because we do want to provide some parking for food trucks. Food trucks is one part of our business that we serve, and the Health Department is starting to look at how can we make sure that food trucks, you know, have a place to go back to, have a place to, you know, empty out and sort of clean up and do their dishes and so forth. So we want to have some larger spots for that. That's probably the biggest impact that you'll see, some food trucks instead of parking for office. On the outside, we intend to keep it exactly the way it is in terms of landscaping towards the west and the south in that lot. The house was built as a single-family residence. I believe it has been a daycare at one point and then an office. I'm not sure if it served as a seminary. I haven't seen that, but it's possible. It's a church right next to it, which is interestingly also zoned C-2.

Right.

Thank you. Um, Councilmember Muelstein.

Just clarification, food trucks would just be parking there for cleanup, but not operating out of that parking, right?

Yeah, they will not be parking there or serving anything there. The C-1 code specifically said this is for, um, business services, non-retail, and we have no intention of having anybody providing service there or, you know, setting up food trucks for service.

Right.

Any other questions?

But yeah, what's the hours of operation for C1, Jared?

That's a good question. C1 is not a 24-hour operation, but so we would have the normal operational hours. I don't have those in front of me, I apologize. Okay, but not 24 hours.

And then, do you know height restrictions if that were to be remodeled or rebuilt?

This is a standard, standard commercial zone. Height restrictions in this zone are 35 feet.

So it won't be a 24/7.

Um, we, we, uh, in Springville, our, our business is open 24/7 for businesses that want to operate or come in. Um, generally nobody's there. During the night, but they have 24/7 access to our building.

Usually if they— in a past life, I'm very familiar with commissary kitchens and I think then it's usually if they have a big catered breakfast or something that they might, but yeah, they're not going to be—

And it does happen. I mean, so the broader sense of a commissary service is that it provides those services to a lot of different type of of food producers. I would say the bakers are the ones that tend to come in early. I've had a number of people start their sourdough businesses out of our locations in Springville. Some have moved on to build their own bakeries. And yes, those will come in at 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock in the morning. Generally, that means that they park, they go in the building, and they're there until 9 or 10 in the morning, right? It's no outdoor activity in that sense.

Yeah, so they don't do any grilling or smoking? Of anything. Okay, thank you. All right, this is a public hearing, uh, so I'm gonna go ahead and open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to come and speak to, uh, this, this request to amend Appendix A, allowing commissary kitchens to the language of the Standard Land Use Code 6291 and allowing it as a permitted use in the C-1 zone?

I appreciate the thing, the time today, and questions. So thank you.

Thank you. I don't see anybody who, who would like to, to speak to that, so I'll go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the council. So, council, what do you think? Councilmember Meekham.

Um, you know, one of our, our goals as a city council and as city staff is to try to create an environment where people can come up with great ideas and have businesses that thrive. And, uh, um, I just wanted to say I, I appreciate you coming forward and bringing this request to us, and also appreciate the potential for many of our local businesses, or those considering starting businesses in the culinary area, to have additional support and services. And so I think that, that, that has the potential to be a benefit to A wide range of people in the city.

Thank you.

Great. Thank you. Anyone else? Anything?

I think as long as we are— um, your business is maintaining quiet hours for around the area, um, and it sounds like most of what you do happens inside, even if it's at 4 or 5 in the morning. Um, it seems like it would be rather low. Impact on the neighbors, right? I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like that, right, Jared?

No, we didn't.

We didn't—

as staff, we didn't identify any concerns when we were researching commercial kitchens.

It's—

it'll all be indoors. Um, the only thing happening outside will be parking, so there shouldn't be any, any impacts beyond what it's been used for in the past. For the record, too, my comments about the daycare, I think, were because of seminary teachers Or the seminary versus daycare, because of seminary teacher feelings about taking care of high school students. So it's an understandable mistake.

I just want to clarify.

All right. Um, all right, if there isn't any other discussion, I'd entertain a motion one way or the other.

Mayor, I'll make a motion. I move to approve the amending of the text of Appendix A of the Orem City Code adding commission commissary kitchens to the language of standard land use 6291 and allowing it as a permitted use in the C-1 commercial zone.

Right. I have a motion. Is there a second?

I'll second that.

All right. Thank you, Councilmember Muelstein. We have a motion and a second. Right. We'll go ahead and vote and go ahead and start with you, Councilmember Muelstein.

Aye.

Councilmember Kilpatrick, you're up.

Yes.

Aye.

I vote aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Right, motion carries. Thank you. I, I'm familiar with your, your company, having— I ran, helped run the commercial kitchen at Community Action. And so to talk about the incubator, and I know that the value of, of having those spaces for starting businesses. Thank you for helping those businesses grow. Appreciate it. All right, next item we have is a public hearing. The ordinance is a request to, to amend Article 22-11-47H3 and 22-11-47H4 and Appendix BB of the Orem City Code Regarding wall heights and landscaping in certain areas of the PD-34 zone. And so, Mr. Hall, it looks like you're up again.

Thank you.

And I know that's a mouthful, that description of all of this, but it is kind of a little more complicated, um, text amendment that's being requested, but it is in essence a text amendment just like the one we just reviewed. Uh, but it's amending the code of PD-34 zone, that is the University Place specific planned development zone. And it only affects this one area on the western boundary. It's been highlighted here. It's related to the Home Depot project that's been coming forward. Recently the council changed the zoning of this property right here to PD-34. And what we're seeing here in this proposal is basically— I'm just going to run through how it works with this exhibit. This is that property we were just looking at that will be included in the Home Depot site that was rezoned. This buffer along here and this residential home here, it was determined during that hearing that the best thing that could be done for the, the neighbors that are going to neighbor this property would be to create a larger wall, a taller wall, at their request. So these areas here along the western property line, there'll be a 12-foot wall installed. You can see that 8-foot in other areas, and then 12-foot again along here where it's adjacent to that home. Again, in looking at a 12-foot wall, that's quite a, quite a large wall. The home is near the side yard, so the folks at Woodbury and Home Depot agreed they could give up some of this property, create these parcels in the subdivision, and give a little more space between the wall that needs to be built and the Sorry about that. Let me go back one. The wall that needs to go up on the property line. So this area could then be deeded to the folks that own these homes, creating a little more space between their homes and that tall, tall 12-foot wall. 12-foot wall is no joke. When you see one, you know you're not in front of a normal wall. So that extra space will mean a lot. The council looked at that situation. The RDA modified— the Redevelopment Agency modified the plan.

Thank you.

This text amendment is essentially bringing the PD-34 zone's allowances and requirements into conformance with what the RDA board already voted to do with the participation agreement, allowing them to shorten the landscaping that's on this side, on their side, the Home Depot side of the wall, in favor of having more space and landscaping on the residential side of that wall that's 12 feet tall. That gets accomplished by modifying the text here.

Thank you.

In 2211.47 and in . That's the distance of this landscaping strip. This is the height of the wall. And then Appendix BB is— that is an appendix to the zoning code or to the city code that contains depictions and diagrams and other language of the PD-34 zone. And one of those things is an exhibit that shows this area. This is then an exhibit that will become Part of that, it'll be an additional page in that, uh, in that series of exhibits already, so that it's easy to tell in the future going forward that this is what was allowed and required to modify that, that original drawing, that original exhibit. Does that make sense? I know that's a lot of stuff. So, any questions?

You have any questions, counsel, for Mr. Hall? Oh, Councilmember Muelstein.

This might be a dumb question. Does changing the language mean that any future development could use this?

That's a good question. That's a great question. Um, a future development could, except for it's part of the RDA participation agreement. So, so, no, um, this area also has different rules for— let's say, for example, they opted not to do the Home Depot. It went away for some reason. They wanted to do something else in the future. Everything kind of starts again. Um, some of the same issues would probably still be at play, and you may want them. Um, if they, they have different rules for if they're going to do housing in this area, for example, they have to be set back further distances and things like that.

So, so this is limited to this project, not any project.

This is specific to this project.

Yes.

Because of that participation agreement and everything that's coming forward still, there's still a lot of work to do at the Planning Commission level. We talked in the work session about those administrative items. There are still 2 administrative items pending for the Planning Commission to look at, and that would be the site plan for Home Depot and the subdivision. And these things are all related to those issues. So there'll be conditions of those, um, of those applications when they go to the Planning Commission in the next few weeks.

All right, thank you. Any other questions, council? Oh, we have, um, not from the council, but from Mr. Earl, our city attorney.

Yeah, just a point of clarification. In that language in the top paragraph on the right there, where it says, uh, maintain along the east boundary, should that be west boundary?

Or is that, is that supposed to be east?

It's supposed to be west. It should be west. I have geographic dyslexia, and I appreciate you pointing that out. Thank you. That's been fixed in the, in the ordinance language, and I apologize for that.

Okay, so it has been fixed in the ordinance language.

It's just the slide that's incorrect now.

Okay.

And will you remind me who the applicant is?

The applicant for this is actually the Woodbury Corporation.

I wasn't sure if it was the city or the—

okay, it's Kathy Olson from Woodbury.

All right. Do we have the applicant here? Oh, wait, come on up. Welcome.

Thank you, Mayor McAnus. It's a pleasure to be here. Um, we, uh, we appreciate you considering this. Uh, we, um, had presented on this in December, uh, before The new council and mayor had come to council here, but I'm happy to answer any questions here. But hopefully it's in keeping with what we had discussed in December, and we're looking forward to continuing to move forward with this project.

All right, thank you. Just as a reminder that this was approved in December, and it was a few different faces up here now than were then. And so this is just a continuation. of the, I guess, the coordinating of the formality of, of making these parts of the code match what was decided then. So, any questions for the applicant? Oh, Mr. Bybee.

Just to put Artie on the spot a little bit, is Home Depot still planning to come and are things moving along with them?

Yes, um, you know, everything is tracking, um, and we're moving along. I know the, um, Timing of the next Planning Commission meeting is one thing that we're very focused on to make sure we can keep to their schedule, but they're focused on starting construction in April.

All right, thank you. Any other questions? I don't have a question.

Just with your pointer, Jared, just show where the 12-foot wall is going to be.

So, from here over and up, and then along here.

Okay, so not around the red, right?

Not, not to my knowledge, no.

Okay, thank you for asking that. All right, any other questions? All right, this is a public hearing, so this is the opportunity. I'll go ahead and open the public hearing if there's anyone here to address this ordinance amendment to amend, uh, Amend the agenda item, or don't— do I need to read back and read all the 22 dash the thing?

I think you can just say PD34.

PD34. Is anyone who is here to— all right, seeing none, I'll go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the council. Council, what would you like to do?

I move to approve the amend of—

try that again.

I move to approve the amending of Article 22-11-47 and 22-11-47 and Appendix BB of the Orem City Code regarding wall heights and landscaping in certain areas of the PD-34 zone.

I'll second that.

All right, thank you. We have a motion and a second, so go ahead and do a vote. Councilmember Kilpatrick, you get to start off. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, thank you. Motion carries. So I think— great, thank you.

Thank you all.

So our next item, City Manager information items.

Just a few quick things. Um, sadly, the lights in our beautiful City Center Park are going to turn off this coming Saturday on Valentine's Day. However, with that said, we are going to keep on the red, white, and blue lights on the Liberty Tree in there in recognition and celebration of America 250, and those will stay on until July 4th this year. So we hope that our residents continue to enjoy the park. Uh, and then, um, not this Friday but the following Friday on the 20th, we have the annual Sierra Gala that I believe you've seen on your calendars. So we're looking forward to the opportunity to show support to our wonderful Sierra community partner. And then I also just want to highlight and make sure it's on, on your minds, the State of the City event that is an annual thing we do, and that is scheduled for March 12th, and preparations are underway to make that a fun and exciting event this year. And, and you will all, if you haven't already, be reached out to by Lori and Pete Wolfley and our communications staff to, to participate and prepare for that event. That's all I have.

All right, thank you. All right, and our last item is to adjourn to a closed-door session in the Summit Conference Room to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation, the character or professional competence of an individual, the purchase or lease of real property, or the deployment of security personnel, devices, or systems.

So moved.

Right, Thank you. Do I have a second?

Second.

I have a second. Okay, help me remember. Is this all a roll call again? Okay.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Councilmember Kilpatrick?

Aye.

Thank you.

Right, thank you. Motion carries. Thank you for coming this evening. Appreciate you being