City Council · 2026-02-24

Now, because of the— they've hit hard rock. They were going like cooking with gas. He says now they're going about 4 feet a day. And just to finish that, and then they're anticipating the project being done next year, about a year from now. So we looked at that.

We—

We changed our clothes, we changed our shoes, we're muddy, and looked at that anyway. We also looked at some pipe that is going to be used. In areas along fault lines. So if there's a— I think he said it was up to a 6.9 magnitude earthquake, that it will flex. There are joints in it that will flex. So we can continue to have water. And so they're planning with all the different fault lines there. And then with this landslide, there's no— they said there's no way to mitigate having a water line in a landslide because the ground just keeps Moving. And so we went and looked at that. Any other council members wanted to talk about that? That was pretty cool. I felt like a little kid on an elementary school field trip.

It's pretty fun.

And then Muddy.

I love seeing the things that our state and community is doing to serve the future in the best ways for whatever circumstances may arise. Yeah, and I'll just say, I have a friend who lives up there on that street that's been torn up once already, and it's going to be torn up again. And just thank you to everyone up there that lives up there for your patience, because what your sacrifice is for everyone in the valley.

Yes.

Yeah, protecting water during an earthquake.

Amen. The— what Linnea is referring to is that the line, it's— what was it, 90 inches or 110? It was, it was very large. It's going to go through a street, some streets up there in the neighborhood, which required the utility To be relocated that were in the road because they were built just like a regular subdivision. So they are— these neighbors have already had their street torn up, their utilities relocated to the sides of the road. And now it's paved, but now in the spring, it's going to be torn up again to have this giant pipe come through so we can all have water. So, yes, I share your appreciation for the neighborhood. That they'll take the brunt of the impact of the construction, but I appreciate them and their patience and being willing to work with the different groups on that. So, if—

Mayor, it's also important to know 60% of Orem's water runs through that pipe as well.

Okay.

Orem city residents will directly be benefited by this project as well.

Yes.

Yep, 60% of the water comes through those, through that pipe. So thank you for that. Um, the next item on our agenda is a presentation, Natural Resources Tree Initiative. We have Sarah Bateman here and Aaron Hawkins here, um, to— as members of the Natural Resources Advisory Commission. To give us a presentation about a tree initiative they've been working on.

And Mayor, can I just acknowledge we also have other members of the Natural Resources Stewardship Committee here too? Paul Dunn and Hillary Hungerford are here, as are our city arborists.

Thank you.

Happy to be here. Thank you so much for The excellent work that you folks put into Orem City and, um, and all you do to make our community a better place. And as we've been thinking about things that we can do to advise you on improving our community, we came across some data on how our tree cover in the city is actually decreasing. Over the last few years and how Orem City is already a little bit behind other cities along the Wasatch Front and elsewhere with respect to tree cover. And, um, we imagine that most everyone can agree that trees are good, uh, and important to our well-being.

Um, sorry, I just put that QR code in case anybody in the back, if this is difficult to see, you can scan it and it will show your, uh, the slideshow, and you can follow along that way.

Thank you.

That's easier.

Um, so, for example, of 7 urban areas in northern Utah, the Orem area, which includes from Spanish Fork to Lehi, uh, in this data set, um, is, uh, the 2nd lowest percentage of tree cover with just 9.3%. And Ogden, Salt Lake, and Logan areas are all 13% or higher. This data comes from satellite imagery, so it's hard to argue with it and say that, oh, it's been miscounted or something. It comes from the Department of Agriculture. Of these same areas, the Orem area, and again, Orem includes a big stretch from from Lehigh to Spanish Fork, has the 3rd worst growth in tree cover with only 0.3% increase in the last 5 years.

Yeah.

But if you zoom in on Orem, on the city of Orem and its boundaries and separate it from Lehigh and Highland and other nearby communities, our tree canopy has actually shrunk over the past 5 years. And there's a screenshot of— the data exists at about 4 by 4 blocks, 4 blocks by 4 blocks. And the red indicates shrinking tree cover over the past 5 years. The green indicates tree cover growth, tree canopy growth over the last 5 years. And you can see that even though the larger municipal area, which I could actually show you if you'd like to see it dynamically, this is just a screenshot. You can see that it's grown in some places, Lehigh and Highland, and it's shrunk in Orem. If you compare Orem with other Intermountain West metropolitan areas, we actually have the least tree cover of the ones that I looked at. Even Reno beats us. I was trying to look for Whipping Boy there. Idaho Falls, Pocatello, Bozeman, Grand Junction, Denver all do better. I'm sure I tried to find places, you know, we do better than places in Arizona, but Arizona gets even less water. I tried to look at just Colorado, Nevada, which also gets less water. Colorado, Nevada, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho. And of those places, of the kind of major metropolitan areas that are similar or larger than Orem, we're dead last as well in terms of tree cover. If we have time and we want to, I could show you dynamically what the data looks like here. It's fun data.

I like evidence. I like data.

But maybe we move on, or if you'd like to—

We've got 20 minutes, so whatever you wanna do with your 20 minutes.

Okay.

Why don't we move on, Sarah, and you can present, then we see if we have any time left at the end. You want to switch seats here?

So, in our commission, we like to get super nerdy about nature. We love it and trees. And so when Darren shared with our commission his findings, we thought this could be a cool opportunity to Proposed to the city a tree planting initiative. Of course, we wanted to approach it being mindful of city goals. So these, I believe, are the city goals that you came up with at your retreat this year. And we'll return to these city goals as we go through and see how we think that this could complement what you're trying to focus on. Sorry, there's another one in case, as we've gone on. All right, so we set up kind of a timeline, a potential timeline for, say, a 3-year tree planting initiative.

I'm gonna ask you a question first. When you're speaking of— what was the term you used? Cover canopy?

Yeah, canopy.

Canopy. So is that a function of we have older trees and they're now being trimmed more? I mean, there are— you know, it's hard to Did you do tree counts at all, or were you just looking? That's my basic question.

Yeah, I mean, what is the cause here, right? Why is this declining? And we're puzzling over that. We aren't sure. Yeah, it's—

we're just—

it's just the satellite imagery that shows that it has reduced in most of Orem.

Um, so I'll go through. I won't stop at each one. This is where we are today. And, um, So the idea was to maybe set up an advisory committee with a smaller steering committee right here. We've got from Orem city departments, the Urban Forester and Parks Department, Public Works. The asterisk would be for the steering committee members. The library, the Business Alliance, Events, Communication, and Outreach, the new Community and Sustainability Officer. The Natural Resources Advisory Commission, and the Neighborhood Advisory Commission. And then community partners include the Central Utah Conservancy District, Utah Valley University, Mountainland Association of Governments, DOT, UTA, potential partners as we move forward. So we would have kind of a launch sometime this spring, and then we go into— this is— I'll stop here for a second. I also work at UVU, so of course I'm looking for opportunities to integrate student learning into city projects and that kind of thing. So this is just, again, some potential opportunities of— and again, coursework may be single, a single assignment, one unit, or the focus of an entire semester class, depending on the class. So Emergency services could teach, could help provide some information about fire-safe tree planting guide. Graphic design could help design information for, I mean, material for public events. Civil engineering, we've got social and behavioral health, the benefit, the mental health of trees in a community, biology, botany. So I know that the Tree Discovery Trail At the, the city arboretum was a project with a UVU professor, Dr. Ashley Egan, and her students helped too. So it's kind of in that spirit, but expanded even more. Geography, GIS mapping, that's what Hillary does. Sorry, Dr. Hungerford does.

Please.

Horticulture, greenhouse, exercise science, Museum of Art at Lake Mountain. Maybe we have a tree-themed fine art show. Anyway, those are just kind of some ideas of how we can engage our students and then provide that win-win opportunity for the city and for our students. So then we move along in the timeline, and the city identifies those initial locations, the tree varieties that would work well, and of course, budgeting needs. Year 1 planting and identify perhaps how different departments in the city or other commissions could, if they are interested in getting involved in this larger citywide goal, whatever we choose the goal to be. And then we've got our community partners. We've got a great opportunity with the new school district opening up next summer. If we can plug into that, how can we Maybe we can have some tree planting activities at our schools here in Orem to kind of kick off that new school district. Obviously involving the businesses, UVU campus itself, the state roads, obviously the 1600 North road project. Anyway, we've got a lot of opportunities, a lot of community partners that we'd love to bring into this shared community goal. More UVU potential opportunities to have students participate. And then we have our Phase 2 launch, which would be next spring/summer, and that would report on what Year 1 looked like— how many trees were planted, how many partners, how many individuals, businesses, that kind of thing, all decided to jump in and participate in year 1. And then we can use that to recruit even more partners in the community who want to join in this tree planting campaign. Again, decide sometime in the spring when that would work well. Ongoing planting events, we again track how many trees, how close we're getting to our goal. Perhaps we set up cohorts of businesses that want to participate. They go through some educational information about their trees so that their trees can do well. And then, yeah, we continue on. And then we have our closing ceremony. And that's Orem's 110th birthday. And then instead of just, okay, we planted a bunch of trees and now we're done, hops. Make a goal every 5 years to do a 1-year to the safe housing scenarios focus. So we've got the first one. So trees increase beauty, comfort, interest, safety, and habitat of neighborhoods. This shared community goal really facilitates that service with each other, that neighborliness, and overall social well-being. Second one, dependable infrastructure. The initiative complements the city's designation as a City USA and the work of Orem's Urban Forester and Public and Parks Department. It contributes to resilience planning. So urban heat island effect, obviously that's something that we want to address as part of this tree planting. Pest infestation, air quality, stormwater runoff, green infrastructure, and making sure that any of the trees that we're planting in this Are compatible with existing and planned infrastructure. Number 3, community-focused and effective government. Leverage what the city does well, inspiring the community to join in a stretch goal. And it's an opportunity to lead by example, make strategic investments, and remain fiscally responsible. Number 4, thriving and balanced business environment. When done right, trees can increase the quality of patronage. And such as shared goal and tree planting events or sponsorship and reinforce connections within the business community and provide promotional opportunities. And then lastly, we've got the skilled and talented workforce. Win-win opportunity to collaborate with educational institutions, including Utah Valley University, to provide enriching real-world academic engagement for students preparing to enter the workforce. Obviously, money is always a big question. So again, since it's a multi-year, we could kind of plan in stages. That can come from budgets, grants, partnering with our agencies, sponsors, private donors. And I know that the City of Provo is in the middle of a 1,000 tree planting campaign. It's a multi-year campaign. Theirs is different. That is all Provo City trees, and it's done through Provo Power. Orem's, obviously, we have a different model, and I kind of liked the idea of extending it beyond just the city, like the city government itself, but really leaning on those partnerships that we have. do well here, and inspiring those individuals, businesses, churches, schools, and really emphasize that that's what, that's what Orem is.

Rocky Mountain Power.

Rocky Mountain Power, that's right.

It's been a donation from them.

Absolutely.

Who says money doesn't grow on trees?

Well, and Provo did have a couple of early donors we could look at to see if their donors would be interested. interested in pitching in a little bit for some cool events. And then these were just a few things. So Provo did 1,000 trees as their goal. If we wanted to go that route, we could do something like that. I know Quinn had mentioned maybe we tie it into something that's Orem-based, you know, the number of babies born in Orem or some connection to our orchard history, the number of trees.

I don't know.

We could track that down or something like that, but that's something we could kind of play around with and see what a goal for Orem could look like that can push us and inspire the community.

Oh, yeah.

And then, since this is our 250th birthday, if we want to try to get enough partners to collectively plant 250 trees this year. Or, you know, in the first year. That could be another goal if we wanted to do that. Again, a timeline of 3 years. We can modify that. We just wanted to make some progress, but not kind of fizzle out. And then, uh, every 5 years to maintain our progress. And then here are a bunch of, you know, different ideas that we might We've got tree mail campaign that was done in Australia, giveaways, poetry reading. Tree again.

So many puns. I'm just reading.

I know, I got kind of weird one night and had fun with it. Yeah, canopy and canapés. That one, I was— I'm like, we could get culinary arts to come and brainstorm. Get a tree note speaker.

Family Tree USA.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. See, there's all kinds of great ideas out there.

Endless opportunity.

So, um, let's get to the root of the problem.

Love it.

And then At least we're not barking up the wrong tree.

Step in.

We need to stop now.

I don't have a gavel in here. Thank you. Council, let's have a discussion on this.

I can give a little bit of history too. We are probably due for another campaign. The last time we did something was during our centennial. Now, 6 years ago. So in terms of that idea of kind of reinvigorating every handful of years, we're—

Okay.

Time for that anyway.

So, Council, what do you think? Is that something—

Can I ask you a couple questions?

Sure, absolutely.

You know, I'm excited about this. There are some big questions that I think are unresolved, and I'm wondering how much thought you put into these, or if a steering— if it's a steering committee job. I'm unclear as to how many trees will be planted by the city versus an attempt to get residents or businesses to be planting trees. Sounds from your presentation like you want both. Yes, both.

Yeah, both the city and the community. Absolutely.

I also think that would be helpful, and maybe this— there's some GIS work to be done here. Figure out, are there places to plant trees? I'm sure there are. But I think one of the reasons that our canopy or tree cover has declined is because we've built stuff. And it's probably hard to put trees back where buildings exist or parking lots exist. So I would be more comfortable if I had a better sense as to where would these trees go. Some of them, of course, could go in residents' yards. But for the ones that the city is interested in, where do we have space where they would provide a meaningful contribution? And then third, I know that water is always a concern. Trees drink water. And so being very careful about the kinds of trees that we plant in our climate. I think is an important step. So thinking about the strategy for the type of tree we plant, the overall effect, whether it be shade or water consumption. I think we just need to be very thoughtful about that. And I— there's the possibility that if we plant a lot of water-wise trees, that the canopies will not be huge. Because often water-wise trees don't have huge canopies. So, Thinking a little bit about metrics of how we measure success might also involve things beyond a canopy. Just some thoughts, and maybe a reaction from you as to how you thought about those trade-offs.

Well, as far as the technical questions, I'm pointing over there at Josh Storey.

No, I'm just taking notes on what you said.

Oh, okay.

Because we had him come present to our commission to ask some of these questions, you know, water, the right variety, locations for those city trees. What are the options there? So I would lean on his expertise to answer some of those questions.

And I know, Josh, that you have— you've seen every tree. And you've thought a lot about that. So we definitely would want to have You provide a lot of leadership there.

Thank you.

Anybody else?

Yeah, so my, um, and just kind of as a shout out, I mean, I really think not only people building, but also if you look at Hillcrest Park, our own city center, you know, there's— we're at this time of renewal in Orem. We're over 100-year-old, you know, we were just talking about a 75-year-old tree. I had someone come to my home and trim my trees, and they're 35 years old. And yeah, they don't have a whole lot of leaves right now. They really sheared it pretty good. So I think we have some great— had some good successes, like at Hillcrest, with how many trees were planted there. So maybe that's part of the canopy issue right now, is we have, through this renewal process, the canopies just aren't there. They're little tiny trees, right?

Check back in 20 years.

That's right.

And maybe the orchard thing too. I don't know. The orchards are gone now. And there was a lot of canopy coverage for that. Really like your point about the heat islands because that's something that concerns me when we start doing all the xeriscaping is it's great to be water-wise, but do we have unintended consequences of some of these other things? So if we could add some trees to these yards that are xeriscaping to create that canopy and that greenery.

Yeah.

So, and once again, to Quinn's point, of course, there's always the money question. Do businesses, are they going to pay for their own trees? But if we can find someone to plant them, that would be great. I know a Boy Scout, well, it's a Girl Scout, a Scout organization that is girls, right? And they're looking for projects for their Eagle Scout projects and things like that. So lots of groups I think coordinate with. And hopefully maybe find some. So I'm going with the renewal in my neighborhood. There was a type of tree that was planted. My neighborhood was built in the '80s that there's a type of tree that was planted that had a lifespan. And so all of those trees have come down in the last few years. We lost a big tree in our yard. And so looking at the lifespans of some of these trees and where we're losing trees and encouraging people that if you've lost a tree, Cut it down, plant a new one, and those kinds of things. I think that would be a great way to, to look at it as well. And with the renewal aspect of it, of, of this is something we have to think about and do. Trees don't last forever, so how can we replace what's, what's going out? First of all, I love the passion that you bring to this and the thought you've put into this. So great job on that. Um, and second, I think what I love about this is, to me, it's about, it's about the trees, but it's about so much more than the trees. And I think this speaks to what Bren was talking about. It's just time for a campaign, it's time to bring us together. And in a world that is so divided, it's really awesome to have this idea to unite us behind something that we can all get behind. And that's just, you know, the city, but also Rocky Mountain Power or the hospital or the school district or, you know, all the neighbors coming together. So I think independent of the trees, that alone justifies doing something like this. So I love that. And I love the idea too of giving our students at UBU who are Orem people the opportunity to get involved in something meaningful. And whether that's, you know, you're studying trees or you're a graphic designer and you want to help us do these things, or, you know, like these are real life challenges that we can invite our young people to step into and help contribute in meaningful ways to this community. And I love that.

So. I love also that you have my hometown up there, because I think there are probably lots of yards that would use 1 or 2 trees in every neighborhood, not just my hometown neighborhoods, but every neighborhood. And Um, it's the opportunity to replenish, renew, plant those areas. It's great to extend that to the neighborhoods as well. On this point, there's something about planting a tree in your yard that signals an investment in your community, right? Because you're not gonna be planting a 30-foot tree. You're gonna be planting a tree that will grow over time. And one of our goals as a city council is to try to help people feel very invested in where they live and plant roots here, right? And so literally planting roots, I think, also has a symbolic effect of I'm investing in this place for the long, the long term. I think people will feel that. I think that that's a An emotional investment as well as a tree investment that I think will serve our community well.

Especially partnering with some group, larger group planting events where it's not like I'm planting a tree by myself, but we are planting trees together. There's power in that.

And since your point about the America 250 celebration, I mean, of course, you plant trees in the spring, right? That's our fall. Those are the 2 types. So I think that would be an amazing one if we can jump on that. Get UVU students, get, you know, school kids, get everyone. Just see what we can, what we can come to bring together in that short period of time, you know, to get something like that going.

And I'm thinking the Neighborhood Commission, that having neighborhood— I know there are some neighborhood, or the past neighborhood grants available, maybe using some of those grants to plant trees in particular neighborhoods. Or, you know, it's very expensive to remove trees. So maybe some sort of thinking through the fundraising, having a, having a resource where residents could get some sort of reimbursement, a partial reimbursement for expenses pertaining to tree health or to planting trees, I think, within involving the neighborhood commission somehow as well.

And I, and I love just to reemphasize again, I love having Josh's expertise and his input on providing a list of trees that these are the trees that we recommend, uh, just to ensure more success down the road.

So what would be the next— and I'll look at you, Bryn— what would be the next steps in this? It sounds like the council is very interested in In this initiative, what would we be doing next?

Yeah, I think we will take back, you know, kind of the feedback that we're receiving in this meeting and maybe start some— of course, we'll want this presentation and put some more flesh to these bones. Again, we've done to some extent some of this in the past, so I think We won't be completely recreating the wheel. And then, and then figure out how much, how much we can do, how much we could include in the budget, and/or how we could pay for this. And keeping in mind that we want to partner with others and essentially compound monies that the city puts into it with partnerships with others. I will say also in the past we've done— we've been able to make a lot of progress on my hometown, on cleanup efforts, on green waste efforts, on what used to be called Take Pride projects, grants in neighborhoods. And we did that through our solid waste fund. And so I'm thinking a combination of savings that we've been able to garner Our solid waste fund combined with, you know, a thoughtful multi-year look at the charges over time. Maybe that's a way we could really make some real progress on this is through that. So those are at least some of my initial thoughts.

My thoughts along funding is I would prefer that any trees we plant with ORM money goes on ORM properties. And then if we can get businesses to help contribute grants for homeowners, that's kind of the avenue I would like to see it go. I would hate to, you know, spend here and have to raise taxes here or do something here. So maybe we can help keep it—

Maybe some of our nurseries would even offer a discount.

Discounted. And then say if you're going to use the program, have them work with the— I visit the Extension Service or whoever does the landscaping classes. I know the things Conservancy District does, like LocalScapes, but help them help people learn about what trees need rather than getting a grant and a tree and just stick it in the ground and hope for the best.

Yeah.

We can get some support. Maybe the UVU students can go out and check on it or I don't want to force anybody to do this. That's the one thing, because I've worked for a community once where people were— where they had a program that forced certain kinds of trees and a certain number of trees and knew every house had to have a certain number of a certain kind of tree. And that didn't go over very well. And I love trees. It's just that I want— I want it to be organic. It's a tree, but I want people to appreciate trees.

There we go.

So, Parent rather than stick.

And exactly, exactly. Have this be— because I would love, I would love to be able to go, go up by the Water Conservancy District and look at the, look at the community and look at all that tree canopies.

And we also have our greenhouse that we're finishing up here at the library, and they plan to do some, some gardening and planting type programs and educational classes. And so Tree planting and the right, the best kinds of trees could be a class or program included in those offerings as well.

Anything else?

Thank you.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

We will leaf you now.

Been fiddling there, so—

Like a tree.

Right. Our tour took a little bit longer than we had anticipated, and so I know we're running a little bit behind, but I do appreciate the times that put on the discussion amounts on our agendas. The next item is a discussion about Planning Commission appointment process. So, What I'm going to do for the public, for those who are here, and staff, I'm going to talk about— start off by explaining what, what this is about. We have some vacancies on the planning commission that we need to fill to the point where, where they're not able to meet and have a quorum. Unless everybody— it's been an issue on that.

We maybe say we've had 3 resignations in December and 2 health issues too.

Yeah, so we've had— yeah, we've had some resignations and health issues. So we're really in a low count on this commission. So what happened was, is there were 3 of us who have been in office for a total of 50 days now. And as— and I asked Councilmember Meekham to be the City Council representative for the Planning Commission. And I appreciate your work, Councilmember, on working to get this, get this commission filled. As this went forward, we knew that there was a need, an urgent need to at least get some people on the commission. But we also wanted to have a process, we being, as Councilmember Mikul and I spoke initially, have a process that was open, that was fair, and gave equal consideration to everybody who submitted an application through the, through the portal. Is that fair to—

Would it be helpful for me to describe what we've done so far?

Yeah, if you would like to do that, and then I would like to just— if you just stick, just do the part what we've done where you are right now, then I'll continue.

Sure.

So we are really grateful for the number of people that applied, and we went back and looked at people who applied in the last couple of years as well, as well as people who recently applied and reached out. to many of those folks that looked like they were promising candidates and invited them to interview. And Crystal Muehlstein and I interviewed, and Gary McGinn, head of our community development, also sat in on those interviews and gave us a little sense of who these candidates are. We then invited city councilors to— who were not in the interviews, uh, to provide any feedback on any candidates they want to. And I tried to gather that feedback and, um, I've shared that feedback with them. So the, the feedback both from the interviews, um, and those, uh, who were not in the interviews but had feedback on interview candidates. That's where we are.

Okay, thank you. And so that's the process that we've had up to now. And just as a reminder, the city code says that with the Planning Commission that the commissioner is appointed by the mayor with the advice and consent of council, of the city council. We're doing a little— we, we did this process a little bit differently than what we did with other commissions because of the nature of the work the Planning Commission does as opposed to other members. The state legislature actually designates certain responsibilities that need to be done with the Planning Commission. That's my understanding, with particularly around subdivision. And then there are other administrative binding administrative actions that occur with the Planning Commission. So we wanted to have, have this process be a little different, be different and be— Then other commissions where the council representatives and the staff members review, the staff member with that particular commission, look at applicant, the applicants, they may interview them, they may not look at that and then make recommendations. You're going to see that process And it manifests itself in tonight's meeting as those that are on the consent agenda. Planning Commission, though, as we were going through this process, I have visited with many of you and learned that apparently about a year ago, there was a lengthy discussion about what the Planning Commission appointment process should be. Neither Quinn nor I were aware of that. I think you were, Councilmember Houston. You weren't aware of it, but to the extent that you were in the meeting, I think you said you were in the meetings where they talked about it.

I watched it.

I can't remember if I watched it.

Watched it, but not with a council member. Yeah, as a council member, as a member of the public at that time. So the 3 of us did not know that this— there had been this other discussion that occurred a year ago. And during that discussion, it was— there were some suggestions or direction given about opportunities for council members to get together, to meet, have them meet and discuss these, the applicants. And also to have a 30-day period where if council members wanted to contact and interview the candidates that we were considering for Planning Commission, that that would happen again. This was— We were not aware of this until we had gotten to the point in the process that Councilmember Meekum had outlined, where we had met. He had sent out an email to each of you soliciting feedback on what his recommendation— what he just— these are the people we've interviewed. What do you What do you think? And then based on that, we met, and then he gave me the feedback that he had received from you, and I've talked to some of you as well, and I made a recommendation. Now, the concern that has come up, the 2 things, and I'm going to hopefully articulate these correctly, and so if those of you correct me if I don't, but one is— What happened to the process that was discussed last January? Again, I want to reiterate that as we've gone forward, we didn't know there was a process that was discussed last January until very, very recently. And 2, with the ordinance saying— The mayor points with the advice and consent of council. What does advice and consent mean? What does it look like? Is that when we share, we get together? And, or through, we communicate with each other our thoughts and feelings about council members and whether the, the eligible, the qualifications or things like that. Or is it where you look at the council representative at the time? In this case, it's Councilmember Meekum and say, okay, Councilmember Meekum, you went through all, and then Councilmember Muelstein, you went, you interviewed as well. What, what do you think? And then some council members may be comfortable just going with that recommendation. So what I'd like to talk about in this process for the next few minutes are those 2 issues. What process do we want going forward? Because we have more vacancies we need to fill. I feel that we— the names that you'll see under the scheduled items on our agenda were names of individuals Who were, as I understand, and in talking to you, were all— there was pretty unanimous support. There was very strong support for each of these individuals. So I put these individuals on there based on that. But there's some other vacancies that need to be filled. And I want to have a clear understanding of what process we should follow. Based on what I— what we've done before, and then what I learned just recently about these discussions about what the process was discussed to be. Does that— I hope I made sense. Not that you don't understand me, but hopefully I was able to convey. Did I articulate that correctly? I want to make sure I'm covering. Okay. So, what— first of all, what process? What is it that— what do you see advice and consent being?

How do you—

how do you use a council picture that typically in my past experience as a council member, it's been more informal, and then the advice and consent is the vote. But you may want— I may be interested in why Councilmember Muelstein feels a particular way about a particular candidate for a commission, or Councilmember Muelstein or Councilmember Gale. Or you might be interested in wanting to know what I thought about something, having, having that conversation about, about that, because we may not see the candidates for the positions. We might, they might have them be viewed, view them differently as far as qualifications. and being members of the commission. So I just want to lay that— what is it?

What do you want?

How's that? Can I clarify one thing?

Sure.

Thank you. I think you did a very good job introducing that and clarifying it. So just to clarify what we did agree upon about a year ago, correct, to your point, the liaison to the Planning Commission would initially go through the portal of applicants, And do a first vetting. Although there was always the opportunity for anyone else to go back and pull someone from that wasn't included in that vetting, we would have those discussions. Then the— and the opportunities, that was the 30-day that everybody could interview if they wanted to. And then after that point, there was a request depending on how many vacancies there were. If we had one vacancy, we would typically We say rank your top 3 in order. More, you would rank more. And then there was an email exchange back and forth of those. We would all find out, and we didn't necessarily know what everybody had done because it wasn't a reply all. It was to the mayor, and then the mayor would then initiate a discussion of, you know, these are the 3.

What do you guys—

you know, this is a common theme here. Most of the time it was, quite frankly. I think Always pretty close.

Well, that's what I— and that was what I saw with this, this as well, that these 3, these 3 who are on the scheduled items were ones that everybody— there was that—

they were the—

like, I appreciate— I like that, the common theme.

And then, and then we would have, like, in— like, I remember one individual was like, oh, well, this person, this individual was, uh, said this in my interview, you know, and it would really depend. Some council members didn't— I called and interviewed everyone. Um, that I could get a hold of, or, you know, and some would say, well, I didn't get a hold of this guy, but I interviewed this guy. So it was this back and forth, this, um, ability to hear, I think, to what you're asking for, uh, opinions of other council members. Yeah, I would love to hear the opinions of other council members in these. I'd love for us to have more discussion on these things because then I can learn from it. I can I know what questions I asked. I know what things I thought of to, to ask in the interviews. But what are important to you guys? What, what's important to everybody else and, and how they're making these decisions? And I think that's important for us to, to hear all of that, or a good, good portion of that, so that we can arrive at a, at a more well-rounded conclusion. Okay. With the desire that those discussions lead to a consensus. I think you got one.

May I ask? Thank you. May I ask the others who were there a year ago, what was— do you remember about what is it that— what would you as well— what is it that— let me ask you too, what is it that you want to do going forward? Because we're a new makeup, we're a new group, and what I would like to do is this time I would like to have it written down or something so we have an understanding, a basic understanding. We don't have to have every particular scenario outlined in the policy, but at least have something so it doesn't happen again where we're just putting along thinking, okay, we think this is working out okay, and then find out that this was some discussion item from a year ago that it was never— from what I understand, they didn't evolve past the discussion.

So.

I love this discussion, and I agree with what's been said. One thing that Uh, a little bit of a— so right now we're looking at replacing 3 members, so that means in 3 years we're looking at doing that again. I would love to see a way that we could kind of spread that out a little bit, even if it were 2 or 3 months, so that we're not doing this carte blanche, you know, doing a whole bunch of replacing a whole bunch of new people in 6 years or 3 years, whatever that looks like. So that it's kind of a staggered—

Could we— would it be with the term like we didn't do with another commission that they start— their start date was the others?

It was retroactive to the date of their expiration of their first term because some of them were holdovers. Like, you know, they were 6 months or a year beyond that.

Because I would rather have staggered too if there was a way to stagger.

It's just that right now there aren't enough to I'm wondering if we can just, you know, draw out of a hat randomly and say, okay, this person's start date will be back to October. This one's will be— in that way they can stagger. It's not— we're saying— So we start with all 3 months, or you're going to be shorted this, but that we can—

Like when a commission starts, when it's a brand new baby commission, they, you know, some members have a 1-year term, some have a 2, some have a 3, right? And then they just go through the legal ground for that.

Uh, to, to, to change the terms right now, our ordinance says the term is 3 years. So if you wanted to stagger terms, you'd probably need to amend the ordinance.

Um, is that what you're—

But if we retroactive it, then we wouldn't have to—

If you made it retroactive, uh, it's a little bit different because these people are coming in new. Yeah, they're not, they're not people who have been there and actually serving, you know, a holdover term where you can really backdate it.

Well, if we were reappointing appointments.

Yes, that's about that.

You're right. So, and can I just say one thing? So we, um, had a change of the Planning Commission, and you would have thought that there would have been this, um, joint renewal. And as it turned out, there were people who said, oh, I can't keep this schedule any longer, I need to resign. And it's kind of gelled and worked out. We, we've had maybe 2 in a month. I can't even remember. I'd have to go back and look. Maybe if you're more familiar with it. So you're saying maybe they'll just write— it might just work out. And maybe if it doesn't come 3 years, we could adjust that.

I mean, you'll have to—

Yeah.

And Mayor, I would say that, uh, while I think there are some advantages, of course, to having staggered start dates, uh, there's also— this is a commission that requires a lot of training, uh, in advance, and, and a commission where I think there's some benefit, at least at the moment, Having people start not too far apart so that they can be trained together. I think just for our planning staff, that might be straightforward.

Okay, so what would— thank you. So what do you envision the process being? So we have the— we have those who we asked, those who are interested to apply in the In the portal. And so they do that. And then, and then in this case, because you're the Councilmember Meekum, you are the liaison, you would look at those. But what happens after that? That's the part I would like to have some clarity on.

Sure.

And I do think it's important because Crystal was very helpful here in having multiple eyes on the applicants. So that— so for example, in the initial list of applicants that I thought had strong applications that I invited to interviews, we did a first round of interviews and then Crystal said, you know, I think there are some other people we should also look at. And I found that very valuable because we ended up having some great conversations with people that I didn't— I wasn't sure of at first. And so I think— at least for the Planning Commission, um, maybe it's not a rule, but, but at least, um, an understanding that, uh, any member of the City Council can suggest that one of the applicants be—

okay, Steve, what would you— I didn't hear your last one. One of the applicants be what?

Interviewed?

Interviewed?

Is it— so we have ordinance over what Planning Commission appointments or any commission appointments Is it bad to have a guidebook that we could work on that's not ordinance, but just kind of laying out a process for how we do this for future councils so that there is some— I mean, because that's changeable, right? A guidebook would be changeable. But just to say, hey, this is, this is a process that we've followed to make sure it's transparent, to make sure that we're getting a lot of eyes on it, or that kind of thing. Is that possible?

Yeah.

Uh, there's— I think there's a couple options for you depending on how formal you want to be. Uh, you know, it doesn't look like you want to be so formal that it's an ordinance, but the next level of formality would be have it in one of your written policies. So you have city council written policies and procedures. It could go there. That's still pretty formal because that's really kind of binding, like you have to follow that. Or it could just be, you know, the next step down would be You know, it could be something that's in writing, but it's more of an understanding and not necessarily a policy that you legally have to follow.

What would be your recommendation?

Probably the latter. Yeah.

Yeah, because the 30-day understanding ended up being problematic, I think.

Yeah, 30 days.

I mean, that's kind of where we— it's part of the delay of getting some of yours.

So having something that's not formal, not a formal ordinance or policy, but Just, this is what we as this current council decided to do.

And I think that would be helpful for future councils to say, oh, these are the things I didn't think about that. But that's why they—

I agree.

I think that would be the option I would support.

And, you know, it could even be, say, an email from the mayor to everybody else. Hey, this is our understanding of how everybody agrees we want to go forward now on. That way it's in writing, but it's not an official policy or a rule that you're legally bound to follow.

Okay, still have flexibility.

Okay, so what, what would you like to see in some sort of understanding like that? If you were to just put— like, let's take that example. If I were to put together an email outlining a policy, outlining our understanding, what would you like in it? As far as what, what issues having the opportunity to discuss amongst other council, or to hear, understand what other council members Are thinking about, or what— help me here. What is it that you want in it?

For me, for transparency's sake, and for myself and for the public, I think having either emails that we're all responding to say what we've done and our thoughts on candidates would be great. And I get that it can get awkward with if we didn't like a candidate, that might not be something we want in writing. So does it work to have— if we've kind of shared with you or the commission member who's— or the board council member who's over that commission, um, our initial responses, and then as those come in, we can all share? I don't know. I, I'd almost like to see double the amount of candidates of the seats that are available. So right now we have 3 seats that we're looking at. So if there were 6, and obviously we have these 3, so that's different. So moving forward with whatever seats we have, double the amount of candidates to say, okay, we have 2 more seats. Here's 4 top candidates.

What are—

what is everybody's thoughts on these 4? That way it's kind of the top 4 that we're looking at. And why does, does that make sense?

We have the opportunity to then contact those people.

Yeah.

And learn and interview them, visit with them.

And also as a council, we can share our thoughts. I, I called, I think, every one of you, speak with you directly to say, hey, what were your thoughts on these? Because I wanted to learn what other people's processes were so that I can learn and Okay.

Okay.

And I think that's— I love a lot of these discussions we're having, and I love the ideas, and I love how you've done it this time. Here's, you know, you and Crystal both interviewed them. Here's the candidates we're thinking of, and then give me your individual feedback. And I'd rather give the individual feedback to whoever the chair is. I don't really love the idea of putting in writing something that would come back to hurt someone later, because I think that puts our public in a really difficult position if, you know, whatever we say, pro or con, it's not a personal assessment of whoever they are, but they might feel really bad if that was a public So whether that's we have the conversations together or whether that's we just reply to Quinn and just say, here's the folks. But I just think anything that could potentially make it for our residents who are willing to step up and serve, I think we really need to be careful about how we do that. So even if it's just you're like, these are the top 4 as we're picking 2 and everybody shares the why those are their top candidates, is that uncomfortable? I think I would be fine saying these are my top 4 and this is the order they're in and this is why I like them. That's fine.

But I don't know what open meeting law is like.

What are we allowed to do there?

In terms of whether you could do that in a closed meeting, is that what you're asking?

Well, even like she's saying via email, like what are we allowed to do? I mean, that kind of counts as an open meeting.

I mean, you're allowed to say whatever you want, but it'd just be a public document.

Okay.

Subject to Grammle.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think anyone here would say anything mean. Just talk about, you know, well, whatever you wanna talk about. You know, for me, sometimes it's really hard 'cause you have great candidates and you just have to rate. And that doesn't mean that someone that didn't get ranked as high is not a good candidate. It just means that at that particular time, the applicants were a little more competitive, or whatever, you know, reason you have. But I think that we are all wise enough to, and caring enough to not put anything in writing that would do a disservice to someone. It would all be professionally based.

Yeah.

Can I try to summarize what I think I'm hearing? See, we're coming to some sort of conclusion. So I'm hearing that it would be helpful to send an email. And if, like, there were 2 open slots, send an email to your top 4 candidates from a shortlist with maybe a couple of comments about why. But having a ranked order so that people could see what your preferences were.

Mm-hmm.

And then be able to see those emails from each other so that we understand where everybody is on those candidates. And it's clear why we ended up— the mayor ultimately gets to decide. But at least the mayor and the rest of us all understand where would rank potential candidates.

It's like, right, it's like a political camp to me, like a political campaign should be, because we've all been through these campaigns focusing on why these individuals would be good in the capacity rather than these other individuals who would be bad in the capacity. So I think having— saying, I support this person because of this, this, this, and this, and I think, I think that that would be—

Would that give you, Mayor, enough, uh, to make recommendations from. I guess number 2, um, the, the counselors around the table, feel like you had enough information to understand how those decisions get made?

Um, I just— to what Crystal said, I kind of enjoy the back and forth understanding of the different perspectives. So different details about, well, this person lives in this area, and so far we have 3 people who live in that area that are on our— did you recognize that? Maybe you didn't recognize that, you know. And so So those kinds of additional— and to me, when you said, what does advice and consent mean? To me, that's what it means. We're all gaining advice from each other in these exchanges to the point that it helps you to make your decision. And ideally, those conversations lead us to a point where we're all saying, you know what, I think I may change my vote now because of something. I don't want to say vote, but my ranking because of something.

Something I learned.

Yeah, yeah. May you help me understand that? I didn't realize they're all from the same area of— or, you know, whatever, whatever the issue is, or the, the plus is for that individual. Um, so I think that's what Crystal was saying, was a little more discussion. Yeah, I think by email, it would be really helpful in a lot of things for us to do, um, but especially in decisions like this. What am I seeing that other people aren't? But what are you seeing that I'm not? That helps me make a better decision if I can see what other people are seeing.

And if there is a situation where there's a concern, if there's a candidate that you have deep concerns about, we don't have to put that in writing, but we can have conversations and say, I can't support this person because of Y and Z. Just want you to know about that.

So we'll take back this input. We'll probably maybe even listen to the—

Can I ask one more thing before you sum up? Um, so the interviews, now I typically call, like I said, but I think it might be nice if you are actually scheduling, if that's going to be what you're going to do, Quinn, as the new liaison, to maybe We can have 3 there, right?

Yeah.

In an interview. So if you want, I don't know, do you open that up? Do you invite? I don't even know. But like, sometimes I'd like to sit in on that. I just don't know if Jeff wants to, or maybe somebody doesn't even want to.

No, that's—

I don't want to frighten them and then create a quorum.

Yeah.

I mean, if I walk through and there were 5 council members, there's 4 council members sitting there and Well, you'd have to coordinate that beforehand so we can—

Yeah, sure.

Well, I understand what you're saying.

I do.

Because I might just say, I don't want to— thanks, but I'll just interview myself. I don't have time.

Well, I think so. Sounds like you have— you were going to get some more feedback. That's your summary, sir?

Yeah, we'll take this back.

We'll write up Essentially what we think the— what we understand the process and practice to be. And I'll circle that back out with you as a council, make sure that we've captured it correctly.

And, um, there I did.

Chris, did you have anything to say?

Sorry, I've been listening. Yeah, there's nothing new to add. I've, I've talked to several about this process, and I agree with what we've come up with.

It's okay. Yeah, thank you. So thank you. We do have, like I said, we do have probably, what, 2 more, uh, Gary, 2 more seats? How many seats? 2 more vacancies that we're going to need to fill that we have already gone through this other process. So that's something, do we continue? Well, this is for a different, right? This is for a little bit. There's no hurry is what I'm going to ask.

You should be fine with the appointment of these 3. We are already planning On a Planning Commission meeting next week. We're getting an agenda out, so we'll have 5 members of the Planning Commission available to come. So we'll need to get 2 more, and then 1 member of the Planning Commission either needs to be reappointed or a new person appointed because their first term has expired.

Okay.

Okay, but we don't need to do that tonight or tomorrow.

No, there's, there's time.

More time to think about this and then give more feedback about the process too.

Yeah.

Okay, Council, you feel okay about that?

I feel good about that.

And just one, one other thing.

So the rest of the commissions, we will continue as we have been?

Is that— that's my— that's what I would suggest, just because the nature of what they do is, is different and it doesn't have those state laws.

What do you want from us? Because in the past I would just interview people, go to the portal, interview people for my commission, send an email to the mayor that said, please put this person on the agenda to be appointed to this position. Do you want more, or what do you want?

What I would like, that, and then if there's some information, maybe their statement of why they're interested in the commission, or they have a resume, something like that, just so I have a little bit more information. But generally, yeah, I don't think I've ever said, No, any of you do a very good job. All of you do a very good job with those appointments.

On that point, I don't think we need to change the policy on that, but I want to make a recommendation from my personal experience. Because I was involved in care appointments and arts appointments recently, it was just really helpful to have somebody else interview with me.

Totally.

In the care, Jen was able to do that. In arts, Pete was able to do that. I felt like I had more confidence in—

Okay, yeah, if you want to do that, that's—

—those decisions by bringing in other people that might have another perspective.

Okay.

So I think that's a positive thing when it can happen.

Okay, so yeah, that's a good suggestion. And so have that, and that ties back to what you were talking about by having— sitting in on the interviews. All right, well, You said that we were at 5 o'clock, we were going to have Councilmember Gale give her report, but we're a little behind. But we would like to— I don't know if dinner's ready, but let's, let's, let's have you give your report, then we'll break and grab dinner. And go through the agenda. I don't know, we're going to adjourn to a closed-door session. I don't know if we're going to have time for that. I know that there's one scheduled or on the agenda for after. But we'll just see how we all are doing on that. So go ahead, Kelsey.

I'm gonna cruise. We're gonna go fast. I have 5, I think. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. IHC outreaches, we were— for the first thing I've done with them is they just sent an invitation. They're opening a new MRI machine, and so they're doing a little open house. And I think probably anybody that wanted to hear could go to that. It's March 13th at 12 o'clock. I'll be going to that. The NRAC, which is the Natural Resources Commission, you heard from today. So I won't really add more to that because they did such a fantastic job. speaking for themselves. CARE, Quinn and I appointed or asked for 2 new people who are on the agenda today to be appointed, and we are meeting in March to talk about— One thing that we've been working with Trevor and Brandon on is a new matrix to help organizations know what to expect and then help the evaluators to know kind of what we're looking for in an application. So rather than just, hey, I saw them once, they were great, Although there is some of that, but, but just, you know, are they, are they delivering on what they promised? Are they being successful in their organization? Those types of things. Do you have anything to add?

No.

Utopia, we met February 9th. They elected new officers. They gave us some updates there, and I'm still trying to get my arms around that one. So I'm scheduling a meeting with the chair to get more details there. The America 250 Commission is really fun. They meet pretty regularly, and they— so So Orem's part of America 250. We have this great initiative rolling out where you can sign up to earn badges and be part of the things. Some of the things you could do is you could walk 250 miles, you could watch a movie about a significant event in American history, or volunteer 1 hour of service. So anything you do, you go on the website and you register that you do it, and when you've done enough things, you earn a badge. And they're giving away fun prizes, um, like for the first time ever, I think they're giving away a rec center membership or tickets to an event at Library Hall or just fun things like that. So, um, that's a really fun one, and, uh, we can have, uh, maybe Brent or Pete could send out a link to where to sign up for that because I think it would be fun as a council if we wanted to do that also.

On the Tuft Berka 250, uh, Commissioner Skyler Beltran has asked that we as a city send him any information about activities or events that we're doing. I think he's compiling— he's just, I think, the county commissioner who's Who's involved in this, right?

Um, that's great.

You can go to that.

Um, great.

And then my last one is UB Business Resource Center, and we are meeting for the first time March 2nd.

So great, thank you. All right, I'm gonna go ahead and bless the food, and then we'll grab our dinners, and then we'll review the agenda while we are eating. That's okay. We're gonna chat. We'll chat for 5 minutes, and then— I can't help myself. Chat. All right. Our Father in Heaven, we're thankful that we can gather here today as, as members of the City Council and the city staff. We're thankful for the opportunity we have to serve in Orem. Please bless our community. Please bless our families and our neighbors as we— and bless us as we work to, to make And continue to have Orem be a great community. We're thankful for this food, and we ask you that thou will bless it. And we say this in Jesus' name. Amen.

Amen.

Thank you. From Aubergine.

So, they're okay with no 30 days? Planning Commission? I think all of that was just like—

it was—

I think it showed up the day before that, hey, these people are on the agenda. So it's like, we have plenty of time to start this process. Let's not— so it wasn't necessarily the 30 days that the thing. It was just more, are we all— that's what we had agreed— are we all collaborating now? What should we say now? Like, do—

I, I just think follow the process that we've discussed here, because I think it'll be open enough. The challenge was before, it was just so quick, and Sharon, time to do what you're going to interview. So if we're involved in those interviews, we can see if the 3 of us can sit in on those or whatever else.

And you don't want to time these I personally don't think that should be part of it, is to make sure that policy is that allow us to get the ball looking kind of common sense, especially because we know ahead of time, like, when there's special circumstances, like, you know, it's coming. So let's not just do it like last year. I think the portal is going to help us do that better too.

Yeah, there's a lot of tools that we didn't have before.

What do you think?

You have time.

You should have time. But the truth is, this has actually been a real issue. A lot of people end up resigning.

They don't necessarily—

sometimes they're like, this is it, this is my last meeting, I'm done.

Problem XYZ or whatever. Talking about staggering, the truth is people naturally stagger.

I wouldn't I wouldn't be overly concerned.

Like, I was the last time 3 people were—

and I'm the only one left.

Didn't make it quite a year.

One person, I don't think quite made it to his 3 years and went on a mission. And I'm seeing this a lot with commissioners, and I was going to make this comment, is that interest tends to wane at about year 2.

I've noticed this. It's a lot of work if they last that There starts to be— I forgot she's back there too.

Sorry.

So I wouldn't worry so much about staggering.

Yeah, and obviously we'd give you enough time. And if somebody quits, if we're staffed up and people are showing up to all the meetings all the time, then yeah, even if you need 2 weeks or 4 weeks to vet someone, it's fine. Problem is we've just hit a period Where we had several people— 3 resums.

Fine.

We had 2 people. Yeah, well, and then we had the 2 reappointments that didn't—

That's unusual.

Kind of ended up in the place where—

Maybe it would be helpful for us if you go like, hey, this is a red flag, we got to get on this one straight away. I'm not tied to 30 days, just common sense. Let's not just throw it on the table. And to the point of this time, one guy was out of charge. That's exciting.

It's already been a pretty tight And chatting, and like to go get through the agenda here quickly.

Have—

oh, yeah, you can do our Pledge of Allegiance.

Yeah, I am.

Thank you.

My husband's saying the opening prayer.

So, to the prayer. And then we have 2 presentations. Um, Chief Robinson, we have some new sergeants, is that right?

Thank you very much.

Okay, and then we have Judge Parkin coming to do a Justice Court report. We have personal appearances. I have a few.

We had a, uh, Adam Robertson with the Sear wanted to introduce the new Indie Film Festival director, just real quick.

Uh, oh, in there. Okay, okay, thank you for the reminder. For some reason I was thinking it was in here. I don't know, something came up. So, all right, item 9 is going to be personal appearances. I have a feeling it might go beyond 15 minutes based on what I've seen on social media.

Yeah.

What is— but I will stick to that like last time. I will stick to those who've signed up, and I will ask them not to duplicate or have a spokesman.

Do we, do we ever have a limit on the number of hours that can go?

Um, well, there's some—

there's—

we talked about some different options today, so I wanted to see how many How many people it was and, and then go from there.

I just didn't know if there's a limit.

There will be a point where I will, yeah, either say, well, if there are a ton—

That's kind of hard because some of these people, this is their 4th or 5th time here. Yeah, I'm saying the same thing. Yeah, well, others maybe haven't been here yet.

Steve, almost like if this is your first time here, please come to the top.

This is your We'll save you to the end if there's nothing.

Steve, uh, as a matter of procedure, the mayor can kind of from the beginning set a time limit for personal appearance.

Yeah, actually in the agenda we're limited to 15 minutes, so technically you wanted to stick to that, or if you want to expand that to 30 or an hour.

I don't want to expand it to an hour.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would like that.

Consolidation.

And then our consent items. We have approval of the meeting minutes. We have some, some events, uh, appointment commission appointments, events advisory commission, cultural arts commission, advisory commission, and care advisory commission. And then, uh, as a scheduled item, I have our planning commissioners. I put— I asked to put that on the scheduled item. What I would like to do is give a little synopsis in the meeting about— or maybe I can ask you, if it's okay, Councilmember Meekum, as the representative, to talk about the process used. Or I could— I can explain it. I'm happy to do that as well.

I could just say the same things that we did that I sent you on here. That's helpful.

And then that would give the opportunity as council members to discuss those appointments.

I won't—

that's the reason why it's not on the consent item, a consent calendar, is that would give you the opportunity to share information that if you're comfortable doing that about these potential appointees. And then after that, we have a public hearing. For budget amendments. There's Brandon. You want me to tell you you have to stay to 15 minutes too? No, I'm joking. You take whatever you need.

Usually not terribly long, but obviously there may be some questions, so I'll answer those as best I can. And that's— and I try to hopefully answer those maybe before you even ask the question. Shouldn't be longer than 5 minutes.

Thank you.

So, Council, after that we have city manager items and then adjourn to a closed session. Think of the time. What do we want to do now? Do we want to start? We have several items to cover in our closed session. variety of things. Would you like to start that now?

How do you—

maybe we can—

I'm not sure what we're talking about.

There's 3 potential items.

Yeah, there are 3 items. One might be— some of them might be longer.

The opportunity is there for, for Q&A, of course. We can probably get through at least one, two, right?

So I need a motion then. Do I need a motion to go? Okay, is there a council member who would like to make a motion to adjourn to a closed session?

So moved.

Okay, a motion. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor? Or do I have to roll call in here?

Yeah.

I'm saying yeah.

Oh, okay.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay. We're going to move into a closed session to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation, the character or professional competence of an individual, or the purchase and lease of real estate. And those of you, I'm sorry that you have your whole dinner and you're now going to be— or can they all stay? What is it that you want to do?

We have to go upstairs.

Oh, we have to go up to the upstairs conference room for the— There's no way to partake. Oh, okay. Yeah, we do need to go up there.

Sorry, everyone.

It's true.

And this door's locked, right?

I can leave my—

Locked, but we'll Don't mess with stuff.

I'm just leaving my computer.

You can leave here, we'll be here.

Right, right.

For you, it's just downloading an update, so I don't want to stop it. Chief Robinson, at some point we'll talk about the, uh, Test, test, test.

A year ago.

No, no, it's not until 7:00 either. Say prayer.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Stand.

Just nice dreams.

I got some trustee that'll come this week. So now Vision 10.

Now I am.

Yeah, you know, I'll rent it.

I'm just kidding.

They're, they're, uh, already All right, I would like to welcome you to this evening's City Council meeting. Glad you're here tonight, and officially call this meeting to order. We have an invocation, inspirational thought given— will be given this evening by Nick Coleman, and our Pledge of Allegiance is going to be given by our Planning Commission Chairman, Madeline Coleman. Madeline, thank you for your service. Okay, we'll go ahead and have the invocation.

Our kind Father in Heaven, we are so thankful for the many blessings which we have in our lives.

And the—

especially for the blessing of being able to live here in this wonderful city of Orem at this time. We are grateful for the help that we receive each day in our families, and we ask a blessing to be upon those, uh, those throughout this city, all those who live here, that they can receive the help that they need. Please especially be with those who serve in our city and work here, that they can be safe and protected and inspired as they do their service. And these things we pray for in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Please rise for the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. All right, next item on our agenda is our Police Chief Robinson. We have a presentation, new police Police sergeants introduction.

Wow.

Hello back.

As they're making the slow walk from the back, um, Mayor and City Council, I'm excited to announce, uh, the promotion of 7 new police sergeants. With the support of you and city administration, we have increased the number of patrol sergeants on each patrol team Okay. This increase will allow for improved span and control of our patrol teams, greater opportunity and expectation for mentoring and one-on-one discussions. This addition will enhance our mission in keeping Orem the best place to live, work, and play. Mayor and Council, citizens of Orem, you have a fantastic police department.

These men and women here represent the best of us and best of our profession.

It's my honor to introduce our new Patrol Sergeants: Roland Burke, Eric Howard, Annalise Langs, Alfredo Guevara, Logan O'Brien, Leif Bybee, and Nick Simpson.

Thank you.

Thank you. Get them here. We'll take a picture.

You got 1, 2, 3.

Thanks.

Congratulations to all our new sergeants, and we do have the most amazing and best police department, and I appreciate all the work that Chief Robinson and his colleagues do. And so again, congratulations. Our next item on the agenda is a presentation by Judge Reed Parkin. It's going to be our Justice Court report. And so I'll turn the time over to you, Judge Parkin. Welcome.

Thank you, Mayor Karen McCandless and members of the city. I look forward to each year the opportunity to give the annual report to the council in the City of Orem Justice Court. I'm thankful and grateful to be entrusted to be involved in the work of the people, a duty to keep our community safer, a duty to fairness, and a duty to maintain the independence of the judiciary. Not too many weeks ago, I was invited and had the honor of administering some of you your oath of office. I have the honor of administering many oaths of office. When I do, it's a solemn reminder of the commitment to our residents and the families in the city of Orem. The words of the oath may have been familiar to many of you. In fact, across the state and across the country, oaths of office tend to sound remarkably similar. Whether taken by a judge, a mayor, a schoolteacher, or a law enforcement officer, the oath is built on the same foundation. A pledge to uphold the Constitution, obey the laws, and faithfully perform the duties of our office. Even though these words of the oath are largely the same, the responsibilities behind those words are not. Each of us, once sworn in, steps into a different lane of public service. My oath does not give me the authority to make laws or policy, nor does it empower me to enforce them. Instead, it commits me to interpret and apply the evidence to the law fairly, impartially, and This is my lane, and staying in it is essential for the integrity of our system. The oath binds all of us in public service to something larger than our individual roles. It is a reminder that one serves— one does not serve themselves in their office. We serve the people. It is also a reminder that the Constitution and the laws of the state are not suggestions. They are the framework that guarantees guarantees the rights of every citizen, and each of us swears to protect that framework from our own biases, pressures, and preferences. Staying in each of our lanes is not a limitation. It is what protects and strengthens— protects the strength and stability of the entire system. For each of us, honoring this oath will be an ongoing responsibility. Each decision that I make, every vote you cast, and every ordinance you adopt must reflect the promises of the oath to serve with integrity, fairness, and fidelity within the laws and the mission of municipal services in the City of Orem. The court has one judge, one court administrator, 7 full-time judicial assistants, and 2 unpaid interns assisting with the caseload of the court. Jody Tenno is the court administrator. I appreciate her work and the work of the judicial assistants who day in and day out handle the workload and the public in a professional and dignified manner. I so much appreciate their good services and the great attitudes they have in dealing with the public. A little review of the history involving the City of Orem Justice Court. The city has had a Justice Court since September 1st, 2010. This body in 2009 made the policy decision decision to the executive branch to petition the state judiciary for permission to run a justice court. It was granted and has been in existence now for 16 years coming this September. Time flies. I've been the judge that whole time. So the court is created by the state's constitution and regulated by state statute. One in particular statute I note here tonight, 78A-715. Under Article 8, Section 1 of Utah Constitution, there is created a court not of record known as the Justice Court. The judges of this court are Justice Court judges. A Justice Court is a court of this state in accordance with Section 78-1-101, a part of the state judiciary, even though a Justice Court is funded and staffed by a municipality or county, and independent from the other branches of government for the municipality or county. A justice court may not be treated as part of the executive or legislative branches of offices of a municipal county. A municipal county— a municipality or county may only operate a justice court as authorized by this chapter. City officials are appropriate in their interactions with the court. As a court, we follow the procurement procedures of the city And follow all HR policies of the city. The city has 2 primary prosecutors who appear regularly in the court and as plaintiffs' attorneys represent the city in a professional and appropriate manner. Justice Courts handle Class B and Class C misdemeanors, infraction violations, traffic offenses, and small claims cases between parties. The most common Class B criminal offense filed in a court by city prosecutors are DUI, non-aggravating assault cases including domestic violence, assault, theft, retail theft, drug possessions cases. City ordinance violations may also be filed in a justice court. Here are some statistics that give you an idea of the caseload of the court. The statistics I will provide will be from 3 measurements: the 2025 calendar year, An average annual statistic calculated from the 15 years of data of the court, and a total statistic since its creation of the court in the various categories. Court expenses are not deducted from the dollar statistics provided, but know that the court costs every year have been less than what was retained by the city and placed in the general fund. The first graph you may have note to is Traffic. In 2025, 10,408 citations of traffic offenses were filed by your officers or prosecutors in the court. Going straight across the line, the average per year has been around 10,800. Total in the 15 years of traffic offenses filed in the court since its inception is 167,000. The next line is a criminal line. These are criminal filings in 2025. City prosecutors filed 1,033 cases with the court. Our average case load for criminal calendars in its existence averages about 1,321. For all years of the court's inception, criminal cases filed in the Orem Justice Court is over 20,000 cases, as noted. Small claims, 569 cases between parties filed in the court in 2025. We average around 627 per year, and the total since its inception of the court is 9,773 small claims cases. Monies collected. This is an interesting stat. In 21 years on the bench, 15 with Orem, I've never included financial stats. It's not my focus, but it shows this is not about a budget discussion or a cost-to-benefit discussion. It just shows the activity of How much goes on in the court. It's a busy court. Total collected in 2025, $2.5 million. Average collected per year, $2.1 million. Total of 15 years, $33 million. Money is dispersed of this collection to the state of Utah. Remember, this is a state court. We do collect fines and surcharges for the state of Utah as well. Of that fines collected, $863,000, almost $864,000, was sent to the state in 2025. Average per year sent to the state, 769. And total of all years sent to the state, $11.6 million. Monies retained by OREM in 2025, $1.6 million. Monies retained on average by OREM, $1.3 million. And total years of existence retained by OREM, 21 million. The next topic I'd like to talk about is the importance of language and the different languages in the court. The court can conducts all of its business in English. However, defendants and those who access the court come to us speaking many languages. Language interpreters serve a critical role in ensuring that our proceedings are understood and that individuals can participate in their defense or resolution of their case. They are provided at no cost to the party, and their use is mandated by both state and federal law. Whether someone is appearing for traffic infraction, a misdemeanor charge, or small claims matter, the court is obligated to ensure that language is not, not a barrier to understanding or engagement. In Orem Justice Court, we have provided interpretation in a wide range of languages. From 2010 to 2026, Spanish has remained the most frequently interpreted language by a significant margin. Over these years, we have interpreted over 7,900 cases, In addition to Spanish, we have interpreted court hearings in over 29 other different languages. This diversity reflects the rich multicultural makeup of our community and reminds us that the need for interpretation services is not isolated or rare. It is a daily routine and it is, is essential. It is an honor to serve the great community of Orem. I appreciate those who are willing to run for office and join their hands with others to protect and improve the lives. Thank you, counsel, for your service and support. Thank you for all that you do. May we all, you know, act in accordance with our oath of office. May we all uphold the laws of this great state and the ordinances of this great city as we serve our great citizenry. Thank you. Any questions?

Thank you, Judge Parkin. Any questions, counsel?

If none today, the door is always open.

You can always contact I do want to express my appreciation for your service. I was on the City Council when we decided to create a Justice Court and participated in, in the process of selecting you to be our very first Justice Court judge and only Justice Court judge. So I want to thank you for the work that you do in, in our community.

It is a privilege. Thank you for your comments.

Thank you. All right, next item we have that is not on the agenda here is a Adam Robertson, the executive director of CIRA, has asked to do a very short presentation, and so we'd like to invite you up.

Thank you.

For just a moment, we wanted to— we've distributed to all of you a schedule of this year's Zion's Indie Film Fest. CIRA has had the privilege of being part of this since year And you can see on the COVID this year celebrating 25 years. This festival is ever-growing. It started out with just a 2-day festival, and now it's a 6-day festival with hundreds of films. And it's really kind of a fun atmosphere to see all the filmmakers and the actors and all of the people at the SIRA.

Thank you.

So we invite all of you to come and attend. I'm going to turn the time over to Michelle Moore, who is the co-director of the film festival.

Thank you, Adam. The other co-director is my husband, and he's dealing with some health issues. So this has been a very meaningful year for us. As Adam mentioned, this legacy of this film festival has been in Orem for almost all 25 years. I think there was 2 years that we were in Provo, but Utah County, we'll do that, Utah County.

This year, we've programmed over 160 films.

We have filmmakers from around the world and the US coming. We've got Canadians and UK and Mexico and just a lot of fun representation. The stories that we pick are still co-viewing, co-family. We don't have— because of the longstanding that the Sierra has, we don't program any R-rated content.

So it's pretty safe.

safe for families to come and do that. We have a team of 30 individuals that we've brought on, which has definitely increased the workload, I guess, that we have there and excitement. So the background really quick is just that my husband and I have a huge passion for the arts and for filmmaking. He was the director of the Utah Film Commission for 10 years. He runs the studio in Park City, and I'm a program director for Living Scriptures. And so, we're able to take our skill sets and be able to bring to Orem content that is enjoyable and uplifting and entertaining at the same time. So, there's some fun rom-coms that we've done. We've worked with TC Christensen, Angel Studios, Kaleidoscope Pictures. We had Pathways to Hope with Jane Clayson Johnson last night.

So, lots of great films that uphold the values of this community that I grew up in as well.

So, it's kind of fun to be back here. and recognize some people that are on the council.

But that's all I have to share.

If there's anything, any questions or anything, I'm happy to answer.

All right, thank you. We're grateful to have you be part of our community, and congratulations.

Thank you so much.

On the 25 years, and wish your husband the best with his health. And thank you. Anything else, council? All right, thank you.

Thank you.

All right, one of the opportunities I have as being mayor is I have the opportunity to move things around on the agenda. And I'm going to be doing that here this evening. There are 45 of you who have signed up to speak tonight. So if you do the math, 45 of you for 3 minutes each, we're gonna— but I'm— but we here as council members, we're here to listen. We're here, we know we are elected to listen, and your voice is important. But I need to make a couple little changes here in the order on the agenda. And I'm also going to ask the council if they would be comfortable shortening the personal appearances from 3 minutes to 2 minutes. Would that be something that you would be comfortable with? Okay, I want to let you know ahead of time so if you do have remarks that you can take a look at that and make sure that you'll be able to convey what you want to say. Because I have sat in your seat waiting to speak at city council before And I understand the feelings there and the importance of listening to you. But before we go to personal appearances, just so you know, we're going to move— we're going to do the consent items, item 10, and we're going to also do item 11.1. Mr. Nelson, we're not going to be doing 11.2 until after. Okay, it's another public hearing, and so we'll, we'll, we're going to— we'll wait on that one. But we do have some, we do have some residents in the, in the audience who are here for the consent items and also for, um, item 11.1. So, Council, we have 4 items under consideration for our consent calendar. Uh, 10.1, approval of the meeting minutes of February 10th, 2025. 10.2, appointment to the Events Advisory Commission, Suzanne Whitaker. Suzanne, are you here this evening? Okay, Suzanne has accepted the invitation to participate on our Events Advisory Commission. 10.3, Cultural Arts Advisory Commission, Gina Cavallo, Jeremy Hall, and Shelby Kilpack. Are any of you here this evening? All right, you stand up. Are you Gina?

Yes.

Okay, and Gina's accepted the opportunity to serve on our Cultural Arts Advisory Commission. Then 10.4 is the appointment to the CARE Advisory Commission. Dawson Richmond and Giovanna Elisa, are either of you here this evening? Okay, so Council, those are the items I have for—

we have for our consent I motion that we approve the consent items.

I have a motion. Thank you. Is there a second? Okay, thank you, Councilmember Muelstein and Councilmember Kilpack. All right, we'll go ahead and have a vote. Um, Councilmember Lamson, how do you vote?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

I vote aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Right, the motion carries. Thank you, thank you for your service. Appreciate you. Right, the next item on the agenda is a scheduled item, and this is for our Planning Commission. If you listen to our pre-meeting, we had a discussion on the process of, of appointing planning commissioners. If you're not familiar, Planning Commission is a little bit different of commission that we have in Orem. State law gives planning commissions some certain responsibilities that they have to do, particularly around administrative actions with land use. And so we view, as a council, we view that commission a little bit differently. And this year, I have asked Councilmember Quinn Mecham if he would be our city council liaison To that commission, I wanted to give him the opportunity to explain the process used as we, as we looked for individuals to serve on this commission.

We are so grateful for your service. Thank you to those who have accepted volunteer appointments on any of our commissions, including those on the Events Advisory, Cultural Arts, and Care Advisory advisory commissions this evening. We're also deeply grateful for those who serve on our Planning Commission. It's, it's, it's a— it, it can be a challenging commission to serve on. It meets more than once a month and requires understanding a lot about the city, a lot about our zoning and, and city code. And we're just so grateful for everyone who is interested in serving on any of our commissions, and especially the kinds of service that's required on our Planning Commission. We've had the opportunity in the first part of the year, because of some resignations due to health and other reasons, to interview a number of really wonderful qualified candidates for our Planning Commission. And many of those people that we've interviewed we think so highly of and really would love to have them serve in our city. Tonight we have 3 appointments that we put on the agenda. The appointment of Susan Madsen, Darren Hawkins, and Carl Radmahl. Each of these candidates have been interviewed by multiple city councilors, and every one of our city councilors has had a chance to share their feedback on all of our, our Planning Commission candidates. And I'm delighted that, uh, that our city council has expressed support for those individuals. For those who I mentioned, um, again, Susan Madsen, Darren Hawkins, and Carl Radmall, if you're here, could you stand just so that we can see you? They're all here.

All right.

Thank you.

Uh, this won't be, uh, the last time you're in, in this room, I suspect. Um, but, um, we're just so grateful. I'm, I'm very grateful to, to the other city councilors, um, including Lenny Mellett and Crystal Muelstein and, um, and others that have been very deeply engaged in, in helping us think through this process, as well as our city staff, uh, for, for helping us. Uh, uh, celebrate the wonderful volunteers and people that we have serving the city. We anticipate there will be additional Planning Commission appointments at a future meeting as well. But I, I'll open it up to any other city councilors who would like to say.

Yeah, thank you, Councilmember Meekum. Council members, do you have any other comments that you would like to, like to give on this? Seeing none. Oh, Councilmember Mielstein. Thank you.

So I appreciated being part of this process and interviewing candidates. Um, there were a lot of really great people who applied to the Planning Commission, and there's only so many spots available. So thank you to everybody who is putting their name forth to serve on Planning Commission and every other commission. We can't run this city without the help of great residents who want to be involved and help through these processes. So thank you to everybody who, who applied, and thank you to these 3 for accepting these positions because they're very important, and especially the Planning Commission that has some legislative and administrative authorities that, that we need to keep our city running. So thank you for that.

All right, thank you, Councilmember Muelstein. Yes, we needed to make these appointments this evening. we, as we discussed, is that right now we don't have enough individuals due to resignations and health reasons to not even be able to hold a Planning Commission meeting. And Planning Commission, as Chair Coleman is here, can attest that that can get kind of tricky with, with that. So thank you. If there are no other comments, I would entertain a motion to approve the appointment of Susan Madsen, Darren Hawkins, and Carl Radnell to the Planning Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that we approve the following: Susan Madsen, Darren Hawkins, and Carl Radnell to our Planning Commission. Thank you, Councilmember Millett. The motion— is there a second?

I second.

Thank you, Councilmember Gale. All right, we'll vote. We'll start with you, Councilmember Millett. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, thank you. Motion carries. Welcome to the Planning Commission. And you'll probably see rooms this full as we go forward in your— as you— in your service, and appreciate you being willing to serve. My college degree is— my professional experience is in land use planning, and I did serve with the Utah County Planning Commission for a number of years, and I know it takes a lot of time, and I appreciate your dedication.

Thank you.

And your, your knowledge and expertise. Look forward to that being part of the Planning Commission. Thank you. All right, now we're going to go back to personal appearances, and you'll see in this is on the agenda that we're going— it says personal appearance is 15 minutes, but we're going to go longer than that. But I, like I said before, uh, we have 35 people who have signed up To discuss short-term rentals. We've had 10 individuals who have signed up. It says construction, but I'm assuming it's regarding, as one says, the construction at 1060 East, 260 South. And if you've given information, sent information to the city, to us as council members, either a movie or video or, or photographs, we've reviewed those. And just so you know that we've, we've done that. Also, for in the interest of time, I will invite each of you who have signed up to speak, but if somebody has already said what you wanted said, you come up and just say— once I did this in a meeting. I was always on a panel last, last weekend, and someone said something that I did. I just pointed at him and said what he said. You know, that we take that just— it is the fact that you're here that That will count. It matters to us. But again, I want you to feel comfortable, and we do— for the sake of time, I apologize, we need to move it to 2 minutes instead of 3. And I want to have a council member ask if we— if you're comfortable answering any of these questions, it would help us as council members get some context. Again, you're not required to answer these, but it would be helpful. How do you advertise your short-term rental if you're a short-term rental owner? Is yours an owner-occupied short-term rental? Do you live in Orem? Is your short-term rental in Orem? And do you have an Orem landlord's license? So I recognize that some of those questions you might not feel comfortable answering, and I, and I recognize that we're not using this as a gotcha list or anything like that. But if it is, it It does help us gain some context as we contemplate what to do going forward. Again, it is completely optional as far as wanting to do that. We won't take your comments with any less— think of it any less if you don't answer those, but I just wanted to put that out there. Okay, our first individual is— if it's okay, well, I'm actually going to look and see who Should I group the short-term rentals, everybody at once, or just— I'll just go through the list. Okay, good. Okay. Oh, the 10, the 10 who are here for the construction. Okay, we'll do those. Okay, um, Richard, Richard Jackson, are you here? So come on up. Welcome. One of my dear professors from BYU. Appreciate you being here this evening.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. I served on the City Council for 8 years many, many years ago and helped write the master plan that we used for many years. And I was a professor and a charter member of the American Institute of Certified Planners at BYU, and I've done a lot of other things. All I want to say is that there's so many things wrong with the house being built on Palisade Drive at about 3rd South that I could talk about them for the next 2 days. But for the sake of brevity, I'm only going to say this one thing. The Larsens have created a hazard, and that's a legal term, and I think that would have to go to court, but they've created a hazard by having this building with no fences, with no way, no doors, no anything else to keep children or anything else out of it. And there are other issues that will be brought up by others, but I hope that the Planning Commission and the Building Department will move to get them to finish that. This is like a third world country With this 3rd, with this non-completed structure sitting there and lowering the price of all the homes that are adjacent to it by at least $200,000. So I just encourage you to see if you can get the commission or the department to move to make them finish that. Thank you.

All right. Thank you.

Do you have any questions? I don't.

Uh, Council, do you have any questions? All right, thank you, Dr. Jackson. Okay, next we have Mary Jackson. Uh, I, I think there's been a lot of thank yous said tonight, and my comment was that usually people just come to the city council when they have some problem they want solved, which is true tonight, and But we also want to say thank you for serving in the City Council and, and making a good place for us to live. A while ago, I was at a City Council meeting where they were looking at some problem, and I know you have the agenda ahead of time so that you can see what's going to be— People from the City Council had Yeah. Been in person to look at that place. And we hope that if you haven't been to this place in Orem, that you will go there.

And if you have, that you will go there again and take a good look at it.

This is a very foundation of our democratic form of government to be able to come to elected officials in our community and make a difference in some manner of concern.

We believe that there are changes that need to be made in the ordinances so that even if this applied in the ordinance, that, uh, it will be changed so that it won't happen again in this city. I thank you for your attention to this matter.

Matter.

I thank you for the beautiful lights that were on in the city.

Wait.

when we're dark in the winter until a couple of weeks ago or a week ago. I thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight, and I will thank you for paying attention to this matter.

Thanks.

Right, thank you, Mrs. Jackson. Appreciate you coming tonight. All right, the next person to be speaking to this issue is David Mr. Sims, are you here? Oh, oh, okay. And then on deck we've got Tracy Ferreira. Okay, you're up now. You're going to be up after Mr. Sims.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. Um, just briefly, uh, looking forward on this construction project, it's been going on for years and it's barely progressed at at all. We understand that sometimes these things happen. There's economic hardship or difficulties, but this is deliberate. And in a way, it's sort of abusive of the presumption we put into planning and permitting that people intend to go through with things in a timely fashion, that they intend to build the things that they suggest that they're going to build. And so what we would ask is that we find some way To try and keep people from exploiting the good faith of the Planning Commission, the good faith of the community. So that we are looking at a structure that if it's left alone is going to take an unknown number of years to build. There's been piles of rubble there for years that were just recently cleared. They're attractive nuisances, Mr. Jackson mentioned, Dr. Jackson. And And I don't know the right legal way to put this, but I think that we all feel that the exploitation of these laws and these permitting processes was deliberate, and that that makes us unhappy even above and beyond the building of the building. And that what we would like to see is a good faith effort that if the building is permitted If it's going to be allowed to continue, that it be built, and that this not be considered an open-ended invitation to continue the process for the next 4, 5, 6, 7, who knows how many years. That's all I wanted to say.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. All right, let me see here. Hey, um, Ms. Pierre, and then we have Grant and Blake as well.

Okay, and will you say your name one more time?

Pereira.

Pereira.

Yes, thank you. Um, okay, my name is Tracy Pereira. My husband and I moved to Orem several years ago from Indiana to be closer to our son with his medical challenges. We chose Orem intentionally as it's close to the facilities that he needs. We paid premium for our home. We believed in what Orem calls Family City. This is across the street from us now. That's Palisades. If you see that sign right there, this is just not about personal taste. It's about the integrity of our home values.

How did this happen?

How do we have a 3-story square structure office building in our neighborhood? The previous lot, it was 2 lots that the builder had. He sold the house in front, and the back was an inground Pool, sold the house in front, and promptly started building this, uh, 20 feet minimum amount away from the home that he just sold. Now they have a 3-story— I think it's 2 stories down, 3 stories up— and that person that just bought that house in their backyard, their kids are scared to jump on their trampoline because the building is right there, a 3-story block. Square. I'm not even sure what to call it. Um, we've heard stories of homeowners facing significant hurdles over small additions, driveway expansions, solar panels. Uh, why are we allowed to have this with the consent of the city? Um, we're so, we're so confused. Um, there's a possible viewing deck on top. He can see everybody in the neighborhood. He can see everybody down in Riverwoods. And what's going to happen on top of the house? It's flat. What about the external?

If this is—

this can't go away, evidently. But can someone help us mitigate the damage that's been done to our neighborhood? Can we have a meeting? Can we sit down and talk? We don't want to accuse you. We're not going to accuse him. We need help with our property values. Yes, thank you.

Would you—

so just stand over by that thing and hold it up so it gets on the video so people can see.

Over here?

Yeah, just—

and while they're doing that, uh, Mr. Earl, I think you're over there, I just can't see. Just, just to let you know that at the end of the comments on the construction, I would appreciate, uh, an explanation about how we— I know you're familiar with this and what the quotes say, and maybe get— just to make sure that we all have the same understanding of at least where— how we got where we are now. And, and then at some point, it sounds like we may be having some discussions on what to— going forward after this. So thank you.

Thank you.

All right, next is Grant Pereira.

I'll just—

okay.

How about Blake Pereira?

Okay.

Yeah, we have a little something whipped up over here, but I'll just reiterate a little bit. I think my mom hit it already, but one of the main concerns that I see for most of the surrounding neighbors is the valuation of the houses. I think me as a college grad, like one of the most beautiful things that like I can be hooked hoping for is to eventually own a home someday. And I can't imagine just having a home one day, you finally get to have the largest asset that you'll ever have, and the valuation of that house is just going down significantly because of the surrounding house over here. I think that's a discouragement for a dream that some people have, especially with housing prices as they are now and the problems that are coming around with housing to be that discouraged for those surrounding homeowners. I genuinely feel for them. Those people on my ward, in our community, I run past them and I talk to them and I see what this— and I understand this guy's project. It's a meaningful project. He wants to do it for his family, but it is significantly devaluing all these surrounding houses, which is honestly costing people millions.

Agreed.

It's over $1 million in damages over people's assets. So I just think that's something we should take into consideration as well.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. Right, we have Tim— is it Tim Williams? Is that— thank you, sir. Welcome. And then after that, Edson Pereira, or was that the father? Oh, okay.

Okay.

All right. Thank you. Welcome.

Thank you for hearing me.

Hey, um, this program, or this—

I'm here for about the housing, and it's been going on now for 3 and a half years.

I am the lucky one who lives right across the street.

I used to have a view of the mountains.

Used to.

Uh, the picture they showed was taken basically from my front yard.

So, um, that's a 4-generational house.

Parking has already been overflowed into places like the cul-de-sac, into the, uh, The bike lanes. I can't imagine what it'll be like when it's fully occupied. To me, that's, that's a safety concern because it is in a small cul-de-sac. Put 4 families' cars in there, I'm sure that will block that up. If there is a fire in there, good luck getting a fire truck in there. I too have suffered in the sense of property values, which doesn't make me happy. We came to Orem because It's a great place.

It really is.

We we like it.

My wife grew up here.

I just would like the you know the rules that were applied to this house for the permits and things.

I think they need to be applied across the board to everyone, and it doesn't seem to be like it has been going on for there.

The place has been in in construction for almost four years, and until recently it was a disaster with the piles of rocks and.

things.

It's still open.

Um, sometimes the gentleman works at night. I can hear him from my house when I'm trying to sleep. I understand he has to work on it, but it's still, um, disconcerting to me.

So, but anyway, I thank you, those of you who have looked into it. I appreciate your, your work and your effort.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. And after Mr. Pereira, we have Shelby Russell. No, yeah, that's right. So Shelby Russell will get next.

By this time, you already know how to pronounce my last name, don't you?

Yep.

Edson Pereira here. My wife and my children over here as well.

We—

I'm a Brazilian, moved to Indiana about 30 years ago when I finished BYU.

I have a business over there and we— I travel travel back and forth once a month to take care of my business there.

But what I would like to say is the perspective of an investor.

I have invested in many good houses in Indiana, commercial buildings, and now, 3 years ago, I was 4.

We invested in a house that we thought that could be our dream our dream home. It's beautiful.

I think we have the best view of the mountains at Palisade. And suddenly, just a couple years ago, what did it start?

Started that big box that I don't know if it is going to be a hotel in the future or what's going to be. So looking at on a perspective of an investor, My investment is not going to appreciate. It's going to go down, as you know.

And so for me and my family, we would love to have the assistance of the city council to—

or they do a better job in what they're doing. Okay.

Or change the, the whole perspective of things. I have no idea what the City Council—

what type of, uh, tools do you have in order to enforce certain laws on a situation like that?

But it's important that we would solve that problem for all of us in the neighborhood.

Thank you very much for listening. All right, thank you. Okay, Shelby Russell, and then after Ms. Russell, we have Rebecca Welcome.

Hi, I have a letter that has been signed by, um, over 100 people, so I'll just read it to you. As neighbors and residents on and surrounding Palisade Drive in Orem, we are writing with our ongoing concerns about the property at 1060 East 260 South in Orem. We find it deeply concerning that something so dramatically out of architectural character with surrounding homes was ever permitted and has remained in a prolonged state of construction. We respectfully request that the following concerns be addressed: adherence to the R-8 zoning intent, strict adherence to no additional permits given to the interior of the building, like additional bathrooms, separating walls that will accommodate apartment-like living units, cul-de-sac parking and emergency access, curb parking within the cul-de-sac be carefully regulated. An increase in occupancy at the address will overburden other residents and not allow access for emergency vehicles. Exterior compatibility with neighborhood homes. We ask that the City of Orem tighten R-8 zoning or architectural standards that require buildings to be in like aesthetics with existing homes in immediate area. Construction timelines. I know this has kind of been hit and talked about already. But— and the permit duration that he has received, we ask that Orem City to change the length of the time allowed to complete this building project. Please do not allow one more inspection violation without a substantial consequence. Perhaps requiring a new permit would allow you to put a new timeline limit to get this project completed within reasonable time. Neighborhood impact and property values. People have gone over that, so I won't talk about that. But obviously, you know what that has done. It's an eyesore for our entire neighborhood. We ask you, our city employees and elected officials, to consider ordinances and procedures that prevent similar situations in other neighborhoods. No community should have the experience or the egregious and visual blight or the ambiguity taking place on South Palisade Drive. We request your thoughtful review.

Thank you.

action and safeguards in these matters.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

And just so you know, I did receive this, and I will share it with the other council members as well.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. Right, Rebecca Armstrong, and then after Ms. Armstrong, we have John Russell.

Thank you. You can tell we're frustrated. Our neighborhood has had— we do have questions about why this house was ever permitted and what you can do to help us at this point. Did the city fail to anticipate ordinances that were needed to be in place long before something so incompatible and architecturally out of character with other surrounding homes was considered? Who bears fundamental responsibility or oversight for the disregard and nuisance of nearly 4 years of unsightly piles of rubbish and a dangerous construction site with no end yet in sight. We are not wanting to stop it from being finished, but rather to find an action that will get it finished in this decade. In other aspects of building or improving our city, there are ways of communicating or notifying, notifying those impacted by change or expansion. It would have been so valuable in this case to have had a system that Um, a congruent aesthetic standard to be put in place. In this regard, we feel a gross indifference has been— has taken place in our neighborhood. We ask to schedule a meeting between 4 or 5 of our neighbors, the director of community development, and the mayor at your convenience to discuss the concerns listed in our letter and what modifications the city would like to make.

Thank you.

the city ordinances might enact, so no other neighborhood will have— will be so marred by such an intrusive structure as ours has. We understand that good taste and genial neighborhood relationships are not things that can be legislated, but you chose a job that makes you responsible to regulate and demonstrate care for our property values and our neighborhoods. And for And for the 140 of your constituents who have signed the letter in this area, thank you.

Thank you. Right, and now we have John Russell, Mr. Russell, and then after Mr. Russell, we have Phyllis Bester. Welcome.

Thank you.

Good evening.

I've lived in Orem my entire life. I'm 46 years old. There's no place I'd rather live and raise my family. And throughout my time here, Palisades Drive has always been a very sought-after location in Orem, perhaps the most sought-after location in Orem.

It has a reputation for serenity and beauty and represents the very best of what living in Orem represents and means.

And when we got an opportunity to buy a home home on Palisades Drive 11 years ago in 2015, we jumped at the opportunity, and we're so excited about the prospects of living on Palisades Drive.

The south end where we reside has some older homes, but new life was starting to pour into our section with tasteful remodels and folks who cared about bettering their neighborhood.

But now nearly every day someone asks, What is that monstrosity being built by your house?

Is it a hotel? Is it an apartment complex? Is it a Taliban-occupied building from Fallujah? People who don't live anywhere close to it are appalled when they see it and give a visceral reaction to it.

And I'd ask, what would each of you do if this half-cooked building sat stagnant for years in your neighborhood that you cared so much for? And what would be your course of action if this was happening on your block, greatly diminishing your property value? And this building reflects poorly on your ability to cultivate the peace and beauty that you intend to achieve here in Orem. And I ask you to please consider taking action that would be consistent with what you envision living in Orem represents. And thank you for my time.

All right, thank you. And I think that's everybody who have— I have here who has signed up to talk about, uh— oh, oops, Mrs. Bester. Thank you, whoever said that. I'm so sorry, I mentioned your name and then I No, I want to hear from you as well. Thank you. I apologize.

It's okay. My name is Phyllis Bester. I have been a resident in Orem for the past 60 years, coming from the great state of Wisconsin. During the 60 years, I have been an educator for 40 years— Orem Junior High School, Orem High School, and at BYU. My very heart and and soul has been in love with Orem students, their parents, and maybe even some of you. In fact, 2 students, former students of mine, greeted me here tonight. I have built 2 homes on Palisade Drive, one block from the property at 1060 South— 1060 East 260 South, the building that we are addressing this evening. I now live at 374 South 1000 East, some 3 blocks south of that same building site. During all of those years, obviously we appreciated that beautiful Orem bench location, once acres of cherry orchards, still a spectacular overlook to the Wasatch Mountain Range. And like all real estate, you pay according According to the area in which you live and your neighborhoods. Almost 1 or 2 times a week, as has been stated previously, people ask me, what is that building at 1060 East 260 South? Is it a business place? Is it an apartment complex? It is totally not compatible with existing neighborhood homes. How did How did they get permission to construct that building? It seems to me that Orem City in some way needs to get together with the zoning architectural standards to require buildings to be in aesthetic appearance with existing homes. I ask any of you, although you saw the picture tonight, have you driven by that home being built? If so, did you How did that happen? Did you ask yourselves, would I want to be in that immediate neighborhood? And believe me, when you drive past, it really presents the impact of it compared to the picture you saw tonight.

We all—

homeowners and citizens— desire to maintain the integrity of our businesses, our schools, and and yes, our neighborhoods. I believe that through the many years of being a citizen of this city, and especially an educator, I have had a high level of integrity. And I think that's the word we're talking tonight. Thank you for letting me speak my mind. And what makes you and Orem City great is that you do listen, share our concerns, and act when needed. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Bester. And now— oh, okay. Yes, uh, you know, from up here, Councilmember Kilpatrick said that Mrs. Bester, you were his teacher. So—

And mine.

Okay, I keep hearing—

yeah.

Well, thank you to all those who have come to speak to this issue this evening. Um, Mr. Earl, would you, would you mind explaining? We've heard some common themes here. Is there anything that can be done now? Is there anything to be done in the future? What can we do? Is there anything to be done to make it move faster, or in some cases make it go away? I didn't hear a lot of it, but what, what is it that we— what can the city— can And cannot do, particularly the city— well, the city council, and then the building and safety department.

Okay, so let me, let me first start with the question of how did this— how did we get to where we are now? And how did this come to be permitted? Uh, that seems to be a question that was asked by many. Uh, you know, as, uh, the city zoning ordinances, they're, they're laws of general applicability. In other words, we have general standards that apply to You know, uh, all throughout, for example, the R-8 zone, which I think this property is in the R-8 zone. Uh, some of those standards include things like a maximum height of 35 feet, a front yard setback requirement of 25 feet, a rear yard setback of 25 feet, side yards of 8 and 10 feet, things like that. So those are laws of general applicability that apply to anyone who builds a house. And And basically, if somebody comes in and makes an application to build a home and they meet those standards and those requirements, we're required under state law to grant a permit for that as long as it meets those standards. So we— state law actually expressly forbids us from dictating architectural requirements or aesthetics. Architectural features. It forbids us from requiring a house to, you know, look similar or fit into the neighborhood in which it's located. I understand why people would certainly want that, but state law does not allow us to do that, unfortunately. So as I was saying, if somebody comes in with an application and they meet those standards of general applicability, we are required to approve it, even if we ourselves might think that it's unattractive or undesirable. Um, all we can do is set the standard, and then again, if somebody meets it, we have to, to grant it. So that's, that's kind of how this came to be. Uh, you know, these standards in the R-8 zone, for example, have been, uh, in place as long as I've been here, which is 29 years, and I think they were probably in place, uh, far beyond that. And, you know, almost all the time it works okay. And, you know, for example, most times with a 35-foot height limit, you know, maybe somebody builds 2 stories with a pitched roof or something like that, and they might even hit that full 35, but it, you know, it looks attractive. But this is a— this is obviously a situation where many people find this particular, uh, Uh, outcome to be unappealing and unattractive and not fitting in with what's already been built in that neighborhood. So to answer the other question, uh, is there anything that could be done to stop it or, you know, make it be torn down? The answer is no, not right now, because it complies with our city ordinances. So there's nothing that, you know, we can do to stop that from moving forward. Uh, what we can do and what we have been doing is looking at ways to potentially amend the ordinance so that, you know, something like this wouldn't be allowed under the ordinance to be built again. Our community development department are working on some options to do that, to sort of ensure that, uh, yeah, that, that, uh, this, this, the situation doesn't arise again, essentially.

All right.

Yeah.

All right. Thank you. I appreciate that explanation. I just have a question. So it does the— and I apologize, I don't know for the building codes— is there a time limit that people have with a permit? How does the permitting system work? Because this evening we heard that, and I— well, last, last thing I heard from the gentleman saying that he does— he works on the building when he's Not at work. And, and if he's building it all by himself or with just very few, I can see it taking a long time. And we've heard that this evening. Is there— are there time limits on permits or anything like that?

My understanding of the building code and the building requirements are there's no ultimate requirement. Say, you know, there's nothing that says it has to be done in a year or 2 years. And Mr. McGinn could speak to this too, but I believe What the building code does require is it has to— you have to show, uh, progress in the construction at least every 6 months. Am I getting that right? Um, and so, you know, they do— we have been monitoring that to make sure that there is progress made within, you know, every 6 months at least. And, and admittedly, that's a pretty lenient standard. Um, usually that works fine. Um, but in this particular case, it is resulting in a little or some progress being made every 6 months, but obviously not as much as, as everybody else would like to see here.

So, all right, thank you. Appreciate the— yes.

Um, Chief, um, if there are activities happening after quiet hours, Um, that they would call the police, the non-emergency number, correct?

Correct.

So that's the 229-7070. Does that work after hours?

Okay.

So if you hear sawing at 11 midnight, you can call and our police will come out if they can.

Thank you, Mr. Earl.

Yeah, one thing I want to add to, one thing that can be done and something that the city has been doing is trying to enforce Uh, any nuisances that happen to be occurring on the property. So if you're getting accumulation of garbage, trash, you know, construction debris, uh, that kind of thing, we have been enforcing those ordinances. Um, the owner of the property has been given some citations for those things, and, uh, we will continue to monitor the property. And obviously, if there are, you know, neighbors see issues, uh, like that happening on the property, let us know, let our NIT people know that, and they'll go out and inspect the property. And they find violations, they will issue citations and enforce those ordinances.

All right, thank you, Mayor. Yes, Mr. McGinn, so that people know, in dealing with amendments— is your microphone working?

Apparently. Is that okay?

There you go.

So that people know, in dealing with some amendments to the ordinance, We've had a couple of meetings with the council in the past to go over some possible options. We've had 3 meetings with Planning Commission, and we're planning on the first meeting in April to have an ordinance amendment proposal to take to Planning Commission, which would then come to council that we hope will fix some of these things.

Is, is, uh, Mr.

Earl, uh, mentioned, the zoning ordinance right now kind of describes the box within which you can build your structure. This person built the box, which usually doesn't happen.

And so we do have some ordinances that we're working on we think will take care of those issues, though state law does prohibit us from doing some architectural regulation. And state State law building— our building code is imposed on us by state law. And so the, uh, 6 months progress, you, you work and do a little bit here, do a little bit there, and every 6 months call for an inspection. That's a state law imposed requirement in the building code that we cannot change.

All right, thank you. Because I do remember a time when, when cities were able to dictate or to have requirements for percentages of exterior materials. And I remember when the legislature— so that's going to be an issue that you're going to want to talk to your state legislators about if that's something that you would like to do, is that we're just— there's some things where our hands are tied on. All right, thank you. Now we're going to go on to short-term rentals. So I'm going to I'm going to start just at the top of the list here and go down. Again, just a reminder that you'll have 2 minutes, and if somebody has already said what you would like to say, please feel free to say they've said it or whatever. But again, I don't want to discourage you from speaking up if you would like to. So the first person is Lisa Lesser, if you'd like to come up.

Thank you.

And then after that will be Lisa Wilkie. Welcome.

Thank you, council members. I'm happy to be serving on the Neighborhood Commission currently. I believe that short-term rentals, uh, rentals such as Airbnbs, are negatively impacting our city of Orem. Every home that is used solely as a short-term rental represents one less resident who can live in our community. I realized this while I was knocking on doors in November for our— during the election. At many homes, I was told that the people who stayed there were visiting and that the home was an Airbnb. They were not Orem residents and they were not Orem voters. I miss the neighbors who we no longer have. These short-term visitors, whether staying one night or one week, do not vote in Orem. They do not contribute to our schools. They do not serve in our community organizations. They do not shop locally for everyday needs or do not participate in our churches or neighborhood life. Yet the physical homes they occupy still take up valuable space in our neighborhoods. In my own neighborhood, ward boundaries alone, we have 6 short-term rentals.

If, if there are more—

if there are approximately 48 short-term rentals in each stake or neighborhood area, and if that is a reasonable average, then our city could have as many as 1,100 short-term rentals in, in total.

Thank you.

Orem is in need of more affordable housing. Short-term rentals are taking up housing that could otherwise be used by young couples and families who want to live here and put down roots and truly become a part of our community. I thank you for your consideration.

Right, thank you, Ms.

Lesser.

Right, next is Lisa Wilkie, and then on deck is Kristen Prittis.

Welcome.

Hello, council members.

It's good to see you. I love our city because it feels like a neighborhood, not a marketplace. Families have worked for years to preserve what makes this place special: stable streets, children playing outside, neighbors who know each other's names, and people who are invested in long term. That doesn't happen by accident. It happens because people live here, stay here, and care about what happens here.

Short-term rentals change that dynamic.

When homes become revolving door lodging, neighborhoods shift from relationship-based communities to transaction-based zones. You lose accountability. You lose the comfort of knowing who lives next door. Even respectful guests are temporary. They aren't enrolling their children in our local schools, volunteering, serving in congregations, or investing in the long-term strength of our We also need to look ahead to the Olympics, which— go hockey, right?

We're proud of them.

With the Olympics coming in the next decade, investors will absolutely see opportunity. If short-term rentals are expanded now, what prevents outside investors from purchasing single-family homes purely for short-term profit? And when the Olympics are over, what will remain? Higher housing costs, fewer owner-occupied homes, streets that no longer feel residential. This isn't about being anti-visitor at all. It's about being pro-community. In the long term, we want neighborhoods where families can afford to stay, where children grow up together, where neighbors look out for one another, or where homes are placed to build a life, not simply assets to maximize on. Please understand, once the character of a community changes, it's incredibly difficult to restore. I hope we Choose long-term stability over short-term gain.

Thank you so much.

Right.

Thank you. Right. Next up is Kristen Prittis. And on—

okay.

And then on deck is Steven Astill.

Astill.

Astill. Thank you.

First of all, thank you all for your service. We appreciate you more than you know. I've I've been a homeowner in Orem, Utah since 1977.

I love Orem, Utah. I'm a retired teacher, both for the Utah State— Utah Retirement System and through the Department of Defense. About 3 years ago, we had a terrible experience with an Airbnb that was moved into our cul-de-sac.

It was scary. Can you imagine new people coming in every few days and you don't know who they are? Your children are used to playing outside, walking to school, and they have to walk past these strangers that we don't know. It's very concerning to parents to have that kind of a— an influence in their curtailment in the neighborhood.

The Airbnb that we dealt with was very large.

It slept 25 people. They had huge parties with the cheerleaders from the University of Utah. The noise was absolutely incredible. The parking— you couldn't find a square inch of parking within 3 blocks. We couldn't put our trash cans out because there was no room on the street.

Everybody was parked there.

These are the kinds of things that you have to deal with when there's an Airbnb in your neighborhood.

Please let us keep our neighbors that we love so much and cherish the environment that we build in our community. Thank you, Orem City.

Thank you. All right, Stephen. And then next up after Stephen is James Eager.

It's easier for me to read than it is to talk.

So, good evening, Mayor and members of the council. My name is Stephen Estelle.

I'm a longtime resident of Orem.

I'm the only person here probably didn't have that lady for their school teacher, but I graduated in 1971 from Orem High School. So maybe that's why.

Okay.

Tonight I'm here to talk about something that's of a real deep concern. It's part of the values that we stand for. I'm so happy Winter Orange City became Family City USA. I remember when that happened. It's a great day for us to be called Family City USA, along with the trees.

That phrase isn't just branding. It represents stability, safety, and neighborhoods where families can put down roots. It means children can ride bikes, neighbors can know each other's names, and homes are lived in, not cycled. Though 3 years ago, and she's a wonderful neighbor, our neighborhood experienced what can only happen when a short-term rental operates more like a business venue than a home. We had the Goat House in our neighborhood, a property. It was used for long-term retreats, fraternity-style parties, Bachelor gatherings and frequent turnovers of strangers. There's noise, traffic, school buses, tour buses, and we have an eight house cul-de-sac.

A fire a fire truck could definitely not turn around in our cul-de-sac when that was going on. More than that, there was a loss of security and safety. I'm skipping ahead through some stuff. I think there's a place for businesses and there's a place for short-term rentals. I'm not sure more affordable housing can exist with so much short-term rental that's taking place in Orem. And that's an important platform that a lot of us were concerned with when we participated in the last election, was affordable housing.

And we think it's a great idea, but we need to be more focused on how we do that.

I'm not opposing businesses. I would just like us to keep our identity of being Family City USA.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. All right, Mr. Eager. And then after Mr. Eager, we have Marlene Goodrich.

Thank you.

Um, normally I don't get to come to these because for the last 5 and a half years I've been working with members of my congregation on Tuesday evenings, but I made time, took time away from that Tonight to be here. So I'm also going to read, and I did some pretty heavy editing for length on this to keep in 2 minutes. I was a business owner for 14 years. My business generated roughly 20 times the tax revenues of a comparably sized residential property. Short-term rental properties are businesses. However, they are not currently subject to the same rules as other businesses. They're not taxed the same as other businesses, and they're currently operating Outside normal commercial zones. Many property owners have made the argument that people should be able to use their properties in the way they choose. This is not aligned with how our city and most of our country currently operates. We have zoning for the express purpose of separating residential, commercial, and industrial uses. This ensures quiet enjoyment by the residents. Residential properties pay lower tax rates than commercial properties because they provide permanent housing for the community.

Thank you.

Short-term rentals do not provide permanent housing, actually reduce the available permanent housing while also increasing the price of housing for both homeowners and long-term renters. I live in the Geneva Heights neighborhood here in Orem. Sorry, I don't usually get emotional in these settings. Our neighborhood is among the most heavily impacted by increasing numbers of rental properties. Over the last 15 years, most of the homes purchased in our neighborhood have turned into rentals. This has had a significant negative impact on our community.

In fact, the City of Orem designated our neighborhood as the first site in Orem for the My Hometown Initiative to help revitalize our community.

The rise of illegal duplexes and short-term rentals is making it difficult to strengthen and stabilize this community. When more than half the properties are filled with tenants who don't intend to stay for more than a few months or a few days there's little opportunity to develop relationships, and we lose the support that is desperately needed for the people in our community.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right, Ms. Goodrich, and then on deck is Scott Swain. He was here. Is he— Scott, are you still here somewhere?

I think he left.

I think he may have left. Okay, if that's the case, then Curtis Gladden.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you for having me. I'm a longtime friend and neighbor of Chris Hammond, and I'm here at her request tonight. Actually, we've lived next door to one another for nearly 50 years.

May of 2027 will be 50 years for us for having lived together in those next-door neighbors.

We've raised our families together, and as circumstances changed, Chris had an opportunity to relocate to be nearer her daughter and elected not to sell that home and invested in long-term rental for several years, 2 different experiences which turned out to be not good experiences either for the neighbourhood or for her, having had to refurbish the home almost completely both times.

She then opted to change over to the short-term rental program and I can say as a next-door neighbor, it's much, much better. Her lawn and yard is professionally landscaped. She has professional people who upkeep everything.

She has security lighting and cameras everywhere that make it safe. And, um, we've heard no disturbances, no parking issues, no noise, no whatever, compared to the long-term renters who partied and were very noisy and rude. I, I think she's made a good decision there, and I think she should have the option as a property owner to choose to make that. She's very hands-on. I see her all the time as my neighbor and friend, as much as I always did. She's there regularly supervising the care of that property, and I think you can find as many negative experiences as you can positive. It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for a hands-on owner who cares about their property, that's a good option for them.

Thank you.

Nice to see you.

Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, um, Scott, last call, Scott. He was sitting right there, so I'm guessing he left. Curtis Gladden, Mr. Gladden, you're welcome to come up, and then on deck is Trish— is it Barris?

Barris?

Barris. Okay, welcome, sir.

Thank you.

Um, I guess just as a first thing, I like, uh, facts. Just a quick, uh, search found that there are about 500, uh, listings in the Orem area for Airbnb or for short-term rentals. 48% of those are listed on 2 sites, so there's about 250, not 1,000 to 2,000. So my wife and I, when we travel, we typically stay at an Airbnb or other short-term because they're clean, safe, and well-kept. I live on the road 2 weeks a month and I live in hotels.

They're not family—

as family-friendly as Airbnbs. The wonderful neighborhoods that we've been able to stay in where neighbors have waved hello. And as we do our best to mind our own business, but also contribute to the local economies, we shop local. We spend our money, our time in those local areas. Recreation, spending time with family, and again, having a safe, clean place for my family to be as we travel is very important to me. I'm yet to have a negative experience as Airbnbs are rated on both ends.

The tenant and the owner are rated on their cleanliness, their safety, their complaints of the neighbors, And if you get a bad review, you don't get to rent anymore. And also people don't rent from you.

And I just reiterate, the Airbnbs I've stayed at have typically been the best-kept homes in the area. My time's up.

Right.

Thank you.

Right.

After Miss Barris, we have Tawny Merrill on deck.

Okay, thank you for allowing me to speak tonight.

I've—

one thing I've noticed is there's a lot of different views and different experiences with short-term rentals, that's for sure. I wanted to share my experience. I've lived in Orem for 40 years. I live in Southeast In our neighborhood was a house that actually became an event center. Every weekend in the summer, it would open up its doors and there would be hundreds of cars, really, for either for family reunions or weddings or anything, blocking our cul-de-sacs, blocking our streets, blocking— making it really unsafe for our children and everything.

So I just was thinking about a couple of things. First of all, research that's been done on how St.

George or some of these other areas deal with short-term rentals, but also looking at them from a different perspective, perhaps, and being able to come up with something and maybe putting it on the ballot.

Just a thought.

Thank you.

All right, thank you. All right, um, Tawny Merrill, and then on deck Carol Walker. Carol was here. Did she leave?

Did she leave?

She was—

okay. All right.

My name is Tawny Merrill. Okay, I live in North Orem, and yes, I do have an Orem rental license, and I only, um, yesterday learned that that this was going on, that the city was considering changing the short-term rental policies. Our family trust owns a home. It was my mother's home. She passed away several years ago, and in her estate directive, she asked that the home remain in the possession of the estate to be available for family when they came to town to visit. And during the times when the home is vacant, we rent it on VRBO, Vacation Vacation Rentals by Owner to help offset the expense of property taxes, insurance, and maintenance. We've had a wonderful experience renting on VRBO. We're Premier Hosts. We have a 5-star rating, and everyone who has stayed in our home loves it and has enjoyed staying there in a well-cared-for family home. We have specific guidelines in place to ensure The peace of our neighborhood. There's no street parking allowed, no partying or alcohol, no smoking inside the home or outside the home, in the yard, anywhere on the block. And, um, we do allow family gatherings as long as they stay, you know, in the yard, but no partying. And I live next door to the home, so I'm Always watching to see what's going on over there. Offering a VRBO rental in Orem brings revenue to our city, including taxes, sports activities, restaurants, grocery purchases, rental cars, etc. And it allows us to keep our mother's home available for family when they come to town and offers a beautiful place for others to stay when they visit Utah. I understand that not all of the short-term are well maintained and run like ours is, and that people have concerns, obviously. But I would encourage the City Council to take a look at solutions that set higher standards for these rentals in our area and allow those who have well-run rentals to continue to do that.

Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, next we have, we have Stephen White, and then on deck, Jordan Coway. Welcome.

Thank you, Mayor.

I'll try to shorten it.

Uh, my name is Steve White. I serve on the Neighborhood Commission.

I previously ran for council and met many good people. Uh, like most of you know, most of you know that our residents like short-term rentals as much as they like traffic. At the Neighborhood Commission, our last meeting, the consensus was very clear. No regulation, but full prohibition. I did some homework. Basically, criminals prefer STRs over hotels. Orem's not immune to these things.

It's not fun to think about STRs displacing a road community.

I've seen what that erosion looks like.

I was born and raised in Moab.

When I was growing up, we left our doors unlocked.

As kids, we roamed the neighborhood for hours on end without worry.

It was a wonderful experience. Yet today, Moab is plagued by STRs. Neighbors don't know each other, and the sense of community is gone. I wouldn't let my own child play 10 minutes on the street where I grew up. It's no wonder Moab has banned all new STRs.

Thank you.

The same thing's already taken root here in Orem. STRs are inherently less safe than long-term rentals. You can get to know a long-term renter, but you'll never know who's in that STR nearby.

Their neighbors won't know.

Your friends won't know.

You won't have any clue who's there.

Safety is not police response time. Safety is social cohesion. Will we background check every transient visitor? Are we not Family City, USA? That identity rests entirely upon neighbors who know each other, children who grow up together, streets that feel safe. We deserve neighbors who are invested in more than a 5-star review. Do STRs— property owners can still rent long-term. They should not run hotels out of our cul-de-sacs.

Do STRs truly serve their neighbors, or is it more about the love of money? Don't compromise.

Please don't compromise for the sake of compromise.

Orem does not want STRs.

It's not every day you see an issue where the current law, the anti-density voices, and the housing affordability side are all on the same team.

No STRs.

This decision will shape the deck, shape the character of Orem for decades. I was at the recent inauguration for some of you.

There was a lot of talk about community.

So I don't know how else to put this, but this is your mistake to make.

Hold the line, preserve the Orem we still have. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, then after, um, Miss Kawai, we have Brandon Henry on deck.

Hi, thanks for giving the opportunity to speak tonight. I was born and raised in Orem. My family still resides in Orem, and I am raising my 5 kids currently in I'm very passionate about our community and our schools in Orem. What I bring to this council meeting is our experience with the nightly rental in our neighborhood. If you would have asked me a year ago, a year and a half ago, how I felt about them, I wouldn't have had much of an opinion. I would have said I use them, I enjoy them, I don't really have much of a problem with them. Fast forward to today, and after living next to one for a year, my opinion has 100% changed. Short-term rentals remove housing from the long-term market. Homes that once housed families, workers, and students are now When housing supply shrinks, rents go up. That's not theory, that's basic economics, and we are living with the consequences. Teachers, service workers, healthcare staff, and young families are being priced out of the neighborhoods they serve. The short-term rental in our neighborhood was purchased by an LLC, which priced out 2 families who were also interested in making offers on that home. This isn't just a housing issue, it's a community issue. Neighborhoods are built on stability, people who know their neighbors, who look out for one another, who invest time and energy in their communities. Thank you. And care into where they live. When entire buildings or streets turn over every few days, that sense of community disappears. We lose neighborhood schools, local businesses lose regular customers, and residents feel like strangers in their own homes. Short-term rentals also strain city resources. Increased noise complaints, trash issues, parking congestion, and safety concerns all fall on local residents and city services. I have sat down and spent several hours meeting with STR hosts City attorneys, councilmen, and the NIT team, I have heard and felt the frustrations of everyone involved. And while I feel for a lot of the STR hosts and appreciate their desire to be good hosts, there are always 2 very big issues that I can't reconcile. One, there is no way to regulate who rents the home and who the tenants are. It is fundamentally impossible, which creates a giant safety issue. And 2, no matter how strict you are with policy, the burden of enforcement falls entirely on the the neighbors, and that is a very unfair weight to carry as residents. No one wants to be the neighbor that is constantly calling into the city to complain. We learned firsthand that no one wants to be a bad neighbor in their own neighborhood, and when you have no accountability to your neighbors, most are very rude and disrespectful because they're gone the next day. I had a friend tell me her daughter was just invited to a party for a 16th birthday at an Airbnb because they want to go somewhere else to have their party. Um, anyways, I'll end there.

Thank you.

Um, we just want to be able to keep Orem affordable and for our kids to be able to, and the next generation to be able to build their life here. Let's keep family city, family city.

Thanks.

Thank you.

All right, Mr. Henry, then after Mr. Henry, have Joe Hillstead. It's Hillstead. Excuse me.

Great. Good evening, Mayor, members of the council. My name is Brandon Henry.

I just want to share briefly my experience with 2 nightly rentals, one in my neighborhood, one in my parents' neighborhood. We live in North Orem, they live in Southeast Orem.

I would say 90% of the renters that come through the nightly rentals are great. Like, we don't have problems with— we like to stay in nightly rentals. And again, these very respectful guests that would come and stay, for the most part, in both of these rentals. The other 10% is almost unbearable. The parking, the parties, the cop calls, the drug use, all of those things happened in the STR across the street from us. We probably called the cops between our neighborhood 10 to 12 times over the course of a year. As Jordan mentioned, um, it places a very unfair burden on the residents to have to go and enforce. Well, I, I work as a developer, and I've developed many STR neighborhoods in communities across the state of Utah. I'm generally pro-STRs if they're done right. To me, that requires zoning within specific areas of the city that allow STRs. and not a city overlay. Now, I'm also speaking— both of the rentals that I'm speaking about, the one in our neighborhood was, was non-owner occupied. They were investment properties, um, by residents that lived outside of the city. So for not— for owner occupied guests, um, I think the regulations should be much less strict and, and much more of a hybrid policy. But for investment properties, it should be limited to zones within the city. And that's what you're seeing many of the cities are adopting across the state of Utah. Thank you.

Thank you. And then after Mr. Joe Hillstead, we have— is it Colin Hillstead?

Colin Hillstead.

Okay, after, after, um, Mr. Hillstead.

Uh, thank you, Mayor and Council. Appreciate the opportunity to, to express my concerns. Uh, Joe Hillstead Almost a lifelong resident of Orem, went to Vineyard High or Vineyard Elementary, the original Vineyard Elementary, Orem Junior High, Mountain View High School. Uh, have lived here most of my life.

I love Orem.

Uh, I want to express my opposition to short-term rentals.

I live in the Aspen neighborhood, uh, within yards of Aspen Elementary. Had experience recently with a short-term rental that we called the party house. And like Brandon just mentioned, the neighbors were left with the burden of policing the party house. And for the most part, most of the tenants were respectful and nice, but it's that small percentage that were loud, were drunk, et cetera, and we had a difficult experience. So I just want to echo what many have already said and express my opposition to short-term All right, thank you.

And then on deck— oh, I'm sorry, the next person after, after you, I'm going to slaughter the last name. Amanda, are we having many Amandas in here? Amandas? Okay, there we go. Yes, you, you're up on deck. Welcome.

Hi, um, I just— I'm I'm Joe's wife, Colleen Hillstead, and I just think we're in the same neighborhood. And I think one thing that was difficult is where short-term rentals are currently illegal, how many are actually open. And it took our neighborhood over a year to get this short-term rental shut down. And so I guess I just wonder how, if you expand it, how is it even going to be regulated when it's so difficult to regulate as it's illegal right now. Thank you.

Thank you. Sorry, I'm just making— I'm making some notes. So, all right. Okay, uh, next on deck is James Walker. Welcome.

Thank you.

Um, my name is Amanda Malden, and I We have 2 properties in Orem, and our current property is by Mr. Meekum. And my husband got laid off a couple years, and our quickest solution was to rent out our home in order to figure out how to cover our huge mortgage of a big home we had just built. And we Airbnb'd it, and it was a lifesaver for us. It was not anything I ever intended, nor did I actually want people moving in and me having to move out. But as owner-occupied, having that, I was insanely grateful for the opportunity. And we went and rented another Airbnb in Orem so that we could just cover our mortgage to stay in our home and not have to sell. And now, as our situation switched and my husband has a different career, our financial situation is different. But it was incredibly a lifesaver for me. And my neighbors already don't even like me just as a human. I'm already loud. We're raising teenagers, and I have an ornery neighbor who doesn't even like my kids playing on the trampoline. So even as a personal resident, my neighbor calls the cops on me just because he does not like music or children or laughter or people swimming in a pool midday.

having an enjoyable backyard. So there is a challenge in sometimes some of those things of like what people appreciate in a neighborhood or not.

I feel like if people are responsible and keep their yards beautiful and represent the community in a good way, everyone that's rented our home— we have a big home—

they have said it's been like their favorite vacation ever in all the world.

And all of our reviews, like I have the I have the CEO of another huge company staying at my home in another couple months, and they come out for BYU graduation or weddings, and everyone is like family forward. They bring all their kids, and it's a beautiful, happy environment.

So I'm for it.

I say regulate it and make people like follow the rules and keep the peace.

Right. Thank you. Okay, next is Mr. Walker, and then after Mr. Walker is— is it Chris Hammond?

Okay.

Oh, okay.

Welcome.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. I appreciate your time.

Uh, like many, I used to like Airbnbs.

We would travel extensively. I traveled for business, and it was always great. You go to a nice place, you get to stay there.

And it was a lovely experience until about 4 years ago.

In our small cul-de-sac, a very large home is now an Airbnb.

And it is literally an event center.

Multiple times during the week, there are photo shoots, there are weddings, quinceañeras, parties where our cul-de-sac is literally filled.

And I won't exaggerate and say hundreds of cars because I don't think that's really practical. But I'll certainly say that there are dozens of cars in our cul-de-sac, and I don't like being that neighbor, like many others have said, to call that emergency line. I also live where the water tanks are behind our house, so I call it because kids are racing up, you know, every single night on that street as well.

I happen to be Tawny's neighbor. And what I will say about Tawny, which is interesting, I had no idea that she'd rented her mom's home as an Airbnb because she's done it well.

But when you have a home, our home is just over 8,000 square feet. We have a pool.

The neighbor's home is lovely.

It's beautiful.

We've got millions of dollars invested.

But when I come home and there's someone from the Airbnb in my backyard, in my pool, that's problematic. I've now installed 15 cameras around my home.

I don't want to live that way. We've raised 5 children in our home. Our youngest will no longer—

is no longer allowed to walk to his piano lesson. Because I literally have no idea who's in our neighborhood. No idea. And I get the financial aspect.

I am an entrepreneur, a business owner. I get it that people want to make money.

But what about the people that came here 17 years ago, put all of our eggs in the basket of Orem City, raising our family here, and then it's just, ah, well, Well, call this emergency number and good luck.

I hope it works out.

So something has to be done.

It's not fair to those of us who have invested for our families, not for our pocketbooks, because there's other ways to do that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, Chris Hammond, and then on deck, Ryan Walker.

Thank you for letting me speak. Um, I'll try to abbreviate what I have. Um, in 2025, Orem had approximately 32,027 households, and based upon statistics, 41 to 60% of those households are rentals, of those that have said that they're rentals. There's also the basement apartments and all the houses that are not being out there. From— someone said 250. Our group has identified that maybe we have 100 different individuals who are doing short-term rentals, which is really only 0.5% of the total population of rentals. So we're an insignificant number. I would like to propose that we look at What is really happening? We're dividing the community. We're taking neighbor against neighbor. If I have someone who hates me as a neighbor, which has been represented, they're more likely to call in and tell me that I'm breaking the law or doing something or file a complaint versus what was going on before when I had actual complaints that could have been filed and weren't because the neighbors knew me. I've been able to go back, reestablish what's going on in my neighborhood, reestablish relationships. I'm there 2 or 3 times a week. My house is immaculate. All things are fixed. I don't have an ice skating rink in my backyard. I don't have barbecues in my back— in my garage. I don't have 30 people a day coming in and spending and doing parties that I can have no control over. I have cameras so that if something's going on, I can immediately yell at them and tell them they have to go in. I feel like that what I have done with my home and spending over $60,000 in a year to fix it up from the last long-term rental. Also, if we look at it, long-term rentals are a problem based upon what's happening nationally. Yes, people go in, they take 1031 money, uh, and pull it all to build. So if you think about it, half of every neighborhood currently in Orem is rentals, and in my street, that is the very same thing in North Orem. Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, after Mr. Walker, we have Dave Pastana. We'll be up after.

Okay.

Oh, way more intimidating up here.

Uh, nice. They were gentle.

Please be nice to me. I'm Ryan. I am a local homeowner. I do not have any short-term rentals or anything like that, but I am in favor of keeping them. We recently had our family reunion in northern Orem, and the cost difference is what really helped the family reunion happen. The hotel would've been $840, whereas the Airbnb was $372. So we would have had to go somewhere else essentially if the short-term rental was not available. So my worry is the cost. Hotels are very expensive and far less accommodating. And also my home definitely does not support our huge family. So we would have to go somewhere outside of Orem in order to have our yearly family reunion, which we have held For many years here. So my worry is just that, like, there might be too heavy restrictions or too high of taxes, which taxes are passed on to the customer, so the cost would be no longer affordable. Um, I, I obviously think that we should be reasonable with this. Um, if an Airbnb is being loud, then yes, that is annoying and Something needs to be done about it. But in my experience, I've only ever had to call a neighbor once, and she took care of it right away. So I think this is something that is good for the economy, pushes against big businesses. And my worry is that if we have too strong of restrictions on this, then big businesses will win, and my family will no longer be welcome in Orem. So that's—

Thank you.

All I have to say, thank you guys.

All right, thank you. And then on deck, Marissa Harris. This is, um, Dave Pestana.

Uh, good evening, Mayor and council members. My name is David Pestana.

I said your name wrong.

That's okay.

Um, I'm a local real estate broker and have lived here for the last 18 years. I want to tell you the line Last, uh, year or so, my story of having a short-term rental here in Orem. Back in October of 2024, my son and I purchased a home with the idea we were going to do a short-term rental. We wanted to be upfront, so we informed all of our neighbors in advance of our intentions. We provided gift baskets, our direct cell phone numbers, and clearly stated that we were available at any time to answer any of their concerns or make it better. We were committed to being respectful neighbors, but it backfired. Upon arrival of our first guest, our 6 neighbors colluded against us. They reported us immediately to the city of Orem, which issued a summons and citation for us to stop operations. Upon appeal, the city attorney acknowledged that the matter was under review by your counsel, and they allowed us to continue to operate. However, our right to operate was not a concern to our neighbors. They clearly stated their intention that they wanted us to be removed. They made no attempt to contact us to remediate any issues. It became clear that they just simply wanted us gone and intended to do that through nuisance laws against us. Over the next 10 months, Over 750 complaints were filed to the city of Orem against our property. That's averaging almost 3 a day until they mounted pressure against the city and forced the city to take action against us. After all that, the best the city attorney could do was give us very minor parking violations. And it wasn't because we had 30 cars, it was because someone was parked on The sidewalk. And one of my favorite pictures was the plumber who was parked on the sidewalk, which equaled a $50 citation. We try and be best of neighbors. We want to be respectful. We tried our best, but our neighbors were not going to let us be happy. We eventually knew that we had to leave in order to have peace. So we sold our property at a great loss to us, to which my neighbor gloated in Thanks to me. Ultimately, we need to have clear regulations. They're essential to make peace with everybody, to protect responsible owners from unyielding self-interest of neighbors. We have a constitutional right to use our property and enjoy our property as we see fit. I hope you can see how hard we work to just make a living and appreciate the value of short-term rentals. The people who stay in short-term rentals are your families. That's who comes to Orem to visit, their families. And, um, I don't believe they destroy the neighborhood, but they enhance it by allowing people to stay and enjoy the place at an affordable rate. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, Marissa Harris. And then after Ms. Harris, Cameron Walker.

Hello, thank you for having me. I'm a non-owner occupied, but I live next door on site, and yes, I have an OREM license. I'm co-chair of the OREM Short-Term Rental Association, and I'd like to provide some context. Short-term rentals represent roughly 1 to 2% of Utah Valley housing market, a small portion that deserves perspective when evaluating broader impacts. Many owners started operating in good faith based on guidance available at the time. After buying our first home, our family invested in the property next door because we care about who operates in our neighborhood. And we didn't want another investor to sweep in. That home had previously caused disruption, smells, conversations, and sights my children witnessed from the backyard were Concerning. Since short-term renting it, the property has been a blessing— cleaner, safer, and well maintained. We are invested financially and personally in the stability of our community and neighborhood as we are onsite owners. Recent concerns deserve careful review using verifiable local data and inclusive outreach to all stakeholders. Our association supports clear licensing, safety standards, occupancy limits, parking rules, and enforcement. Responsible regulation strengthens neighborhoods, and if city resources are an issue, we would love to help.

This does not need to be divisive.

We are asking for thoughtful regulation rather than blanket prohibition and are committed to collaboration via balanced committees and education. Orem has long been progressive and business-friendly, And moving forward with wisdom and fairness is the right step to shed some light and positivity on the issue. We've compiled 26-page packets of positive statements for passing out from local neighbors and hosts all over Orem that couldn't all be here today.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, after Cameron, after Mr. Walker, I have been requested that we take a bio break. So it's when you're done, We're going to be— we're going to meet. Let's meet about 5 after 8. So go ahead, the floor is yours.

Thank you very much. I do not own a short-term rental, but I'm here to speak on behalf of short-term rentals. From the statements that have been said, it sounds like there's room for everyone to come to an agreement. There's some middle ground we can find. I, I don't think having a goat house or a party house is what any of us As local residents, we do want community. But, you know, as someone— I've stayed in short-term rentals in other locations, and I've had an amazing experience with my family. And ultimately, I think this comes down to 2 things.

It comes down to property rights.

As a homeowner, I should be able to do, you know, within reason, a lot of things with my property that I want. And that's a fundamental right of our country, our state, and our community. And the second thing I think This comes down to is right there underneath the Orem Family City USA. You know, like was said earlier by Mr. Pestana, is these are our families that are coming to stay. It's not typically, you know, like, and it's 90-plus percent are our families. And I did a little experiment. You know, hypothetically, I have 3 kids. If my wife and 3 Yeah. If we wanted to stay in the Marriott tonight here in Orem, we would have to get 2 rooms. A family of 5 that fits in a sedan would have to get 2 separate rooms. But with an Airbnb, we have that option to consolidate. And then think about what happens to families of 8, 9, 10 individuals who come to visit grandma. And we're in Utah. Those are very relevant numbers of family Uh, so I think putting a blanket ban will force families to split. Short-term rentals allow families to stay under one roof, cook meals together, and actually be a family. If we're banning that, we're not standing for Family City, USA. So I, I hope the council will consider some option to regulate while allowing the short-term rentals.

I don't think a blanket ban is beneficial for our community.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Just so you know, before we take our break, I have 10 more people who are, who are on the form.

Weeks have left. Okay, okay.

I've got Linda Van Cott, Tracy Pereira, Amy Green, Larry G, Matthew B, Laura Zamora, David Weeks and Liz Weeks.

David and Liz Weeks have gone home.

Oh, they've gone home. So we have 8 more after the bio break.

Just let me let you know.

I appreciate it. All right, we will be back here. We're going to start back up at 5 after. Thank you. We're going to get back, back at it here. I did omit a couple of people who did sign up who have— who will have the opportunity to speak. Our next one up is Curtis Gladden.

Hi.

And after Mr. Gladden, Sean Sutherland. You're safe. Oh, you already spoke. Oh, oh, my apologies. You did. Oh, okay. Well, do you want to get up?

No, you're good.

All right, Mr. Sutherland, you're up. And then after Mr. Sutherland, we have Linda Van Cott. You're on deck.

Thank you for staying late. My name is Sean Sutherland. I'm a longtime resident of Orem, and I live next door to an Airbnb, a short-term rental, for the last couple of years. And I have not had some of the really crazy wild parties and things. So I just wanted to share what some of the normal experiences are for us next to an Airbnb. The first one is strangers coming up to my home because they think it's their Airbnb, even though they didn't see the 3.5-foot sign that has the house number on it. Uh, on multiple occasions, we've actually had people try to enter our house, shaking the door, doorknob, trying to get inside. Um, it's a, it's a house as well that is by a wedding revenue area, and so it's busiest on the weekends. During the week, it's pretty dark, and so there's been theft there, a grill stolen that the owner notified me of. Uh, and then there are just other things like that. Are common that we've heard from others, like the amount of cars. And so when a car is boxed in, it's happened multiple times where a car will drive across my driveway to get out to the road, or they'll park at the church and cross my yard. And so these aren't things that are insurmountable, but this is what the burden of the neighbors is by living next to a short-term rental. They also block the sidewalk so that A child across the street who's wheelchair— who has to go in a wheelchair to get around goes to the street. The garbage cans are left for several days after they've been emptied, sometimes blowing into the street. So again, more burden for me and the other neighbors to take care of. I also know that short-term rentals are a way to circumvent other things that are quite enforceable. So there are several examples, but But for the sake of time, as a father of 3 young daughters, I keep an eye on sex offenders in the neighborhood. And the way Utah defines a residence is anywhere they stay for 3 or more nights. And there's never been one that popped up at the Airbnb, meaning more than likely people are just violating what they've been asked to do. It's against the Airbnb terms of services. It's not something that's enforceable.

It's not something that's screened.

Even Airbnb only screens the person who makes the reservation, not the guests. So I just wanted to share what that burden is, that it's the burden of the many to benefit the few.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right, next up is Linda Van Cott, and then on deck is Tracy Pereira. Okay, you'll be up after Ms. Van Cott.

Um, I moved here 66 years ago when I was 10, when Orem had one stoplight where Smith is now. Um, went away for a year but came back. My brother raised his family of 9, which there are now 80 of them.

Oh my gosh, I mean, in a few generations it can go quite quick.

So we love Orem, we've lived here our whole lives.

To me, it's just got a heart.

that defines it.

So I've seen the changes, I've seen the progress.

I don't mind the progress. I don't—

we have, we have about 2 Airbnbs in our little area.

I live in a little tiny cul-de-sac.

I think the problem happens if the owner isn't close by, if they don't live in the house or live in Orem. Because, uh, 40 years I lived next door to the same family, sweet little family, everything was great.

And then 20 years ago So somebody else bought it and moved away, and it's been illegally rented to 3 or 4 different groups that come and go, and in structures that aren't really—

they kind of jerry-rigged the house and divided it up.

And at one time there were 17 men in the basement.

And we did—

I don't report it because I'm a coward, but we had little kids in the cul-de-sac. And so one of the mothers reported them, and they came out and looked, but nothing was done. And so I think sometimes some of us feel a little helpless when— if City Council says, well, we don't— we don't— we'll let it slide if something is illegal, we'll let it slide because we don't get many reports. But sometimes you don't get many reports because sometimes we feel helpless.

I just think the bottom line for me is Orem is a heart, it's a family.

And I understand progress requires revenue, a balance between revenue and heart. Totally get that. I would just say Please keep uppermost in your mind the quality of life, because if Orem doesn't have that, then the rest doesn't matter. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, um, Miss Pereira, you're up, and then after on deck, Amy Green.

Hi, it's me again. Sorry, I shouldn't—

No need to apologize.

Shouldn't have worn the red jacket.

So noticeable.

Um, well, I actually wasn't prepared for this one, but, uh, I saw that it was on the docket, so I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth because I've been thinking about doing a short-term rental owner-occupied. Um, and I'm just, um, hoping that you will consider the options and approve it to be regulated. I think my— our situation is that we have the extra space for when our boys come to visit. I'll never long-term lease. We have an apartment in the lower level that's actually connected upstairs just by this stairway inside, and then we could just shut that door. But I'll never long-term lease because my, my boys cycle in and out all the time. And, and now that we live in Utah, everybody wants to come and visit us because it's Utah. But I would like to be able to long-term or short-term lease some of the weekends. When I don't have family there, and I would appreciate the money in regards to—

I haven't—

we have an adult special needs son, and that, that, as you know, or are aware, that can be a lot of medical expenses. I can't imagine that as a property owner I couldn't allow someone to rent my space for a few days. 6 occupancy. I don't know that the occupancy needs to be.

Um.

regulated extensively, especially for a small owner-operated space. But the difference is owner-operated versus someone out of state or even a house next door to it. They're watching their space. So I haven't done this yet, but I'd love to. And darn it, I'm a rule follower. So please make some nice rules for me because I can't not obey. So, um, Um, we have some, um, short-term rentals in our neighborhood right now, lovely ladies like me that want to do owner-operated, and they're doing a wonderful job, and they need the extra income as single moms. So please, um, regulation that, that works for the owner-operated would be great.

All right, thank you. Next up, we have Amy Green and then Larry. Is Larry here? Okay, Larry, you want to come up? And when you come up, if you could give your last name so we have that for a record, that would be great. So you're on deck.

Well, hello.

Thanks for staying. It is getting late. I'll be fast. I'm here tonight as a resident who cares deeply about our neighborhood and the people who live in them. Short-term rentals are not the same as long-term housing. They function as a commercial hotel-like use, and when They are placed in residential neighborhoods. Cities consistently document increased noise complaints, parking congestion, trash issues, and frequent guest turnover. These issues don't occur at every property, but they occur often enough to require ongoing enforcement. Parking and access problems tied to short-term rentals have also led, in documented cases, to block driveways and impede emergency access. When When that happens, it's not theoretical. It becomes a real public safety concern. Enforcement is another reality. Many short-term rentals are owned by absentee or out-of-state owners, which can delay responses when problems arise. Complaints require police, code enforcement, and staff time, costs that are largely borne by the taxpayers. There is often a perception that legalizing short-term rentals brings meaningful revenue to a city. However, when weighed against enforcement, administrative, and public safety costs, that income is negligible and frequently offset. Any limited revenue benefits does not outweigh the ongoing cost to neighborhoods or city resources. Housing is also a concern. Orem already faces housing affordability challenges. Each home converted to a full-time short-term rental is one less home available for residents. And reduced supply adds pressure to housing costs. I also want to address representation. There is a well-organized group of short-term rental owners, often supported by national advocacy organizations, actively participating in this discussion, but they do not represent the broader community. The vast majority of residents are unaware that a law is changed— that a law change is being considered, and their voices are not being heard. I see no clear benefit to the broader community, very real cost to city resources, documented negative impacts on neighborhoods, safety and quality of life concerns, and significant resident opposition. In my opinion, legalizing short-term rentals in residential neighborhoods will not resolve these issues and may make enforcement more difficult, not less. I respectfully The council to keep the current law in place, not allow new short-term rentals in residential neighborhoods, and ensure the city has clear authority to shut down properties that repeatedly disturb neighbors or violate ordinances. Residential neighborhoods should remain places for people who live here, not transient lodging. Thank you, and thanks for your time.

Thank you.

Hey.

Larry, as you come up next on deck, is Matthew here? Matt? Okay, Matthew, say my name. I'm going to ask Larry, as I just, I just have your first initial and we just need your last name for the, for the record.

Good evening, Mayor and members of City Council. My name is Larry Gleim. G-L-E-I-M.

Thank you.

I wanted to speak today to, uh, to support short-term rentals. I've been neighbors with a short-term rental in the city now for about 7 years. The owners received permission from the city before buying this property and starting their STR. They live there and have had landlord licenses and collect and pay all their taxes quarterly as required. I have found that it is well managed and their guests have been very amiable people. They host nice groups of people and families and make every effort to have a positive impact on the neighborhood. These guests are customers at our local businesses and help fund our city. I have been an Orem general contractor for over 50 years and have helped them make repairs on their home, and I have appreciated how they responsibly manage their vacation rental. Most of the time you can't even tell if there are guests at their home. I would support a licensing program for short-term that would allow good operators like my neighbors to continue to host guests in their home as they have been, and a path for the city to quickly eliminate those property managers who are causing problems with parking, noise, and other issues that we have also heard about tonight. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. Appreciate you. Comments? All right, Matthew, you're up, and then Laura Zamora will be after Matthew.

Welcome.

If you can leave— give us your last name, that would be—

Sure, Matthew Beadle. I just want to give my, my 2-minute gratitude for short-term rentals.

I'm one of those families that have 10 kids, and so if we go traveling, uh, we have to take 4 hotel rooms, which pretty much means we never travel Unless it was camping, and that's hard to do, especially in the wintertime.

As far as our guests, they're all in the same boat.

They come here for funerals, they come here for weddings, graduations, things to support their local families that they're visiting, that they love. And they've all literally said that they would not have come to this family experience if they had to go to a hotel because they don't want to be split not only between rooms but potentially floors. and be surrounded by strangers that they don't know. There's something magical about being under one roof as a family, and you can't have that at a hotel, whereas at Airbnb, VRBO, you can have that common, uh, field.

As far as why we did short-term rental, we want this home to eventually go to our children, and long-term rentals destroy property.

I have 120 units.

My long-term rental experience I sometimes have to spend $20,000 to $60,000 after a long-term rental lease.

Airbnb, not a problem.

They damage it, their insurance covers it, and it's immediately fixed.

Long-term rentals, generally they're the ones that have the yards falling apart, they have kids' chaos outside.

Airbnb, it has to look immaculate because you've got to attract guests.

It sounds like the city of Orem doesn't necessarily have a short-term rental issue.

It has an event center issue that there have been some people that have turned a short-term rental into an event center, and I think that there should be regulations for that. The short-term rental has been a huge benefit for the community and for families.

Again, we would not be able to travel without having short-term rentals available to us, and people visiting our home are in the same.

So thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. All right, Ms. Lamour, welcome.

Yeah, thank you for having me. I am also someone who wasn't aware of this until today, and so I'm so glad to be able to be involved.

I wanted to share as a person who has helped build Orem, and I am an Orem resident with a rental license.

To me, the issue is a personal accountability issue.

Personal accountability to the city of Orem. I think that when we're holding ourselves accountable— so I had a home that I was going to sell, and as I realized that somebody could buy that home, become a landlord, and that my parents' home would, you know, get destroyed or forgotten, I decided that I would become a responsible landlord. So that's how I've chosen to do long-term rental. I wanted to preserve that. I wanted to preserve that. They came here in '76 when it was nothing, and we've contributed since. I think that as longtime permanent residents, that we have consequences for our choices because we're still going to be here. And if you don't live here and you are participating in the decisions of what goes on in Orem, you don't have those consequences. Sorry, let's see. If you don't, if you don't live here but you're benefiting from the business, you don't have a reason to preserve Family City USA. You don't. That's not your investment. That's not your concern. But it is for those who live here, including myself. I do have Airbnb near me, and those people do not participate in Orem. That's not what they're here for. They're here to see things in other areas. So they're not really contributing anything here and benefiting, but I haven't had problems that way. I would love to see that what we've invested and preserved for ourselves is respected by Orem and that that will be preserved for us.

Thank you.

Thank you. You can give me just a second to make sure I've got everybody here. I have little check marks. I think that is Everybody. So, you know what, I just want to tell you thank you. Thank you for being so respectful. And there are a variety of opinions and positions in, in the audience this evening, and I appreciate hearing from each of you. Just quickly to let you know a little bit where we are, again, like I said last, our last meeting, we are, we're continuing to gather information and certainly will take this into account as well. At the legislature, we're kind of waiting until the end of the state legislative session, which is, I believe, a week from Friday. This is March 6th. We have not seen any short-term rental bills come through, but that doesn't mean it won't happen, and it's happened in the past. So we wanted to hold off on, on really digging into what, what we We picture as a council for short-term rentals until that legislative session has ended. And just so that's where we are now. So yes, I have, I have pages. I'm looking around and every— people have gotten pages of notes here. So again, grateful for your, for your taking the time to come this evening. Now I just need to find where I put the agenda. There we are.

Okay.

Thank you. All right, Mr. Nelson, you finally get your opportunity. Um, again, thank you for coming this evening.

Never been so excited to hear from you and your financial report.

Yes. And so yes, this will be a public hearing for fiscal year 2025-2026 budget amendment. And Mr. Nelson is our finance director, and he will be making a presentation to us.

Good afternoon.

Thank you, Mayor. Uh, tonight is our second, uh, meeting regarding budget amendments for the current fiscal year. We last met in November to discuss those. We've had some other things that have occurred since that point that require us to come forward with you to, to get these budget amendments approved. Um, the first things I want to just focus on, as per usual, is those items marked with a 1 that you see in the notes section. And those are donations and grants and awards that we receive as the year goes along. Um, obviously you can see some of these here where with our— we received some donations in relation to our Lights On celebration. As we continue to receive Gold Star, uh, the family monument memorial out here to the side of the building between the buildings, we receive donations there. You'll notice that these are in Fund 10, our general fund, but we also have our foundation. And so there's also, you'll see down in, in there right here, you can also see that we receive donations donations through the actual foundation directly through them, and those are all transferred into the capital projects fund so that they can be spent on that project, as that's where that expense account exists. The, the main— the biggest one I wanted to take note of here is, you'll see in the Major Crimes Task Force, is an annual grant that we receive receive from the federal government called— referred to as HIDTA, which is High Intensity Drug Trafficking Award. Um, and so you'll see that's an actual calendar year award. And so this is for the actual full year. We won't spend all of it by June, and so it will carry over into the next fiscal year. But obviously we need to get the whole award on into our budget. Uh, let's see. And then if we step to number 2, which is the biggest item on our budget amendments this evening, uh, you'll recall if you were here when we— the auditors in December when we presented the annual financial report, the auditors indicated that we as a city had exceeded the maximum allowable fund balance. This budget amendment then removes those dollars from our general fund and moves them into our capital projects fund so that we can meet— fall under that maximum. As part of that, we were also notified sometime in the October timeframe, maybe November timeframe, so not able to get it into that first budget amendment. Somewhere in there, in our discussions with Provo, we have dispatch services that we do through Provo, and we received an invoice from them that was significantly different than it has been in past years. And so So we've been through some meetings and various analysis of that and determined that some things need to be better brought to light as far as transparency in that relationship. That said, we didn't necessarily disagree entirely with what they had proposed, so part of the money that we had as excess from that fund balance is going to be used towards meeting that obligation. And that's really that item, that $455,000 item that you see on the very first section, and that's what that's in relation to. And then, and you'll also see that down here in the remaining transfer down here. that goes into the capital projects fund, this $3,680,000, which consists of the CIP project money from Fund 10, the fund balance from Fund 10, but as well the Gold Star Memorial money that's being moved. So those 2 are combined into that one line item. Item number 3— I guess before I get to going, is there any questions about either of those first 2 items?

So I just— may I? I just want to ask, just clarify, so because we did the dispatch, you know, putting them together probably 3 years ago, and you're, you're still, we're still comfortable with that, right?

Yeah, so we, we evaluated that to make sure that, you know, that financially speaking, that that was still the best viable option. And obviously in talking to Chief Robinson, you know, he He gave his— he likes working with Provo, let's put it that way, compared to some of our other options, the other options that we have available to us. So again, we're tightening the screws a little bit on the contract we have with them to make sure that that kind of a thing doesn't happen again. And that, that, you know, we talk about open and transparent. that Provo is also open and transparent with us in regards to that as well. So, uh, item number 3, which is a continuing item. As long as we have unspent funds within the 2024 sales tax revenue bonds, we earn interest on those unspent funds, and those end up going towards other projects within public— that Those bonds were issued for public safety reasons, so we continue to use those dollars towards that purpose, and, and we've earned some additional interest since that— the last time we, we came. Um, item number 4. So I'm touching on just the revenue elements. Obviously there's a corresponding expenditure side of specifically kind of where those funds would end up being spent. I don't want to necessarily flip back and forth between the two, so I'm trying to just talk about where those dollars came from and kind of what the intent of where they would be spent is. We mentioned the Orem Community Foundation. They receive various donations as the year goes along. You can see the particular donations that we received there with the Gold Star Memorial, the Carl Hurst Youth Sports Scholarship, and Orem Police Department. And then we had some— the last item on there, that $43,000 in appropriated surplus, were donations that were received in the prior year that we're just now getting transferred out of that particular fund and getting them to where they can be spent. And the majority of those were the Gold Star Memorial funds. Uh, let's see. And then item number 4 there, related to Senior Citizens Fund, they have a For door lock replacements. And so that particular fund is— that's the intent of their fund balance, is to replace capital type of items. So this is another item that we need to get replaced and pull those fund balance reserves, if you will, to be able to pay for those items. Then scrolling back up, you see at the very top Um, the fees for police services, uh, the, the police decided that they should just charge everybody that they come in contact with, and so— I'm just teasing.

Uh, you're killing me.

Uh, no, obviously they have been doing— since the Charlie Kirk shooting, they've been doing a, a lot of work, overtime work down at UV and around UVU, who has been been, uh, in essence reimbursing us for those dollars. And this just takes into light so that we can make their overtime account not look so gigantically in the hole in relation to budget. So, um, that's the item there. And item number 6, the miscellaneous revenues that you see for this $80,000, um, uh, we had a project, a MAG project, and basically what happened is is MAG would reimburse us for those costs, but kind of crossed over years. We covered it, if you will, with Orem City funds, but now they've reimbursed us. And so we're just adding those funds back to available funds within that particular project fund. So those are all the items I have. Are there any questions about any of those?

Thank you, Council. Do you have any questions for Um, Mr. Nelson, regarding this. All right, seeing none, I'm going to go ahead and open the public hearing. This is a public hearing, um, regarding these, uh, fiscal year '25-'26 budget amendments, as have been explained. Is there anyone here who would like to speak to this item? All right, is any of the police chief Bring on her to go home. Yeah, yeah, you might be. Yeah. All right, seeing nobody, uh, who has— who would like to speak to that, I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing and bring it back to the city council. So we do have these items to consider on making these changes and open to discussion or emotion or both. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to approve amending the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget as shown in Exhibit A as presented. All right, thank you, Councilmember Lamson. We have a motion. Is there a second?

Second.

Right, thank you, Councilmember Kilpatrick. We have a motion and a second to approve amending the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget as shown in Exhibit A as And so we'll go ahead and vote. Council Member Meekum, how do you vote?

Aye.

I vote aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Thank you. The motion carries. It's unanimous. And thank you, Mr. Nelson. So now we move on to item 12, City Manager Information Items. Mr. Bybee, we'll turn the time over to you.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. Just Just a few quick things. One, hot off the press, we got some feedback from UVU in regards to the roundabout that's there close, just north of University Parkway. Obviously, that project took us a while to get it to be drivable around there, and they recently gave us some design plans that were done by some of the students there to now landscape that, that roundabout. And so that's something that we have on our kind of project to-do list this coming spring as it becomes sort of the proper planting time to improve that roundabout.

So we'll install what they've designed, is that correct?

Exactly.

Okay.

I know we still get some resident inquiries about that project.

Yes.

So I want you to know that we are making progress, and it is kind of a fun partnership with UVU students on that.

Thank you.

Um, and then, uh, we've got, uh, the water reuse facility is finally ready for a ribbon cutting. And so that should be on your calendars for, uh, March 10th. That'll be, uh, essentially during kind of the work session or just before the work session for our next council meeting. And then, um, the Spirit of Orem Award nominations are, are now open. And, uh, the theme this year is Red, White, and Blue and You. So there's obviously a patriotic component to that. So if you have, uh, residents or, or examples or people that, that you think should be nominated for that, then please take a look at that. And then, of course, as I mentioned last time, we're preparing for our State of the City event on March 12th. at 10 AM at Library Hall, and looking forward to that event. And then finally, you know that on occasion I like to share little anecdotes that are indicative of the exceptional caliber of our employees, and admittedly I'll have a hard time sharing this without getting too emotional, but I received notice last week that a group of our employees went to the house house of our HR director who has been fighting, uh, health challenges. And they brought by dinner and gift cards and, um, and words of encouragement. And they did it because they know that our HR director and our HR office are so helpful and would do the same for them. Um, I personally experienced this kind of outreach and doing good beyond themselves when my son has been going through his cancer treatments. And so it's just super inspiring to me that our employees do so much good. And that kind of attitude of watching out for each other not only is portrayed to fellow employees, but also to the public. And so I want you to be aware And wanted sort of public recognition of the wonderful employees that we have here working at the City of Orem. Thank you.

Thank you.

We do have amazing employees. Uh, I just wanted to mention with the state of the city, it's going to be interesting because when Mr. Wolfley said, Mayor, do you do your own stunts as part of preparing for this event? And it's like, Well, does it involve primates?

No.

Okay, but anyway, so we'll see what— we'll see what comes out of all of this on the state of the city. And also, Mr. Bybee, I just want to, just for the public who's here, just make sure that I understand that we only have one city council meeting in March and one city council meeting in April, and it's both the first ones on the second Tuesdays of the month. We do not have them on the 4th Tuesday of either month. Is that correct?

That is correct, due to conferences and trainings that we have scheduled on and/or events on the other 4th Tuesdays of those months. So, one, I believe, is because of Pillar of the Valley event falls on a Tuesday, and then the other is because of the Utah League of Cities and Towns conference All right, thank you.

All right, council members, lest you think you are done this evening, look at item 13. Uh, we have the need to adjourn to a closed-door session in the Summit conference room to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation, the character or professional competence of an individual, or the purchase or lease of real And so I'm going to need a motion and a second to adjourn to that closed-door session.

Mayor, I move that we adjourn— or, uh, yes, let me find it— adjourn to the closed session in the Summit Conference Room to discuss pending or reasonable imminent litigation, the character or professional competence of an individual, or the purchase or lease of real property.

Thank you, Councilmember Kilpatrick. Do you have a second?

Aye.

Okay, Councilmember Muelstein, the second. Yep, that's efficiency. You do the second and the vote. All right, so I'll go ahead and I'll vote aye. Councilmember Kilpatrick?

Aye.

Aye.

That was aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right, motion carries unanimously. And so we're going to, as a council, going to adjourn to